Chavez rallies thousands launching re-election bid

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Chavez rallies thousands launching re-election bid
Fabiola Sanchez, Associated Press, Caracas, Venezuela | Tue, 06/12/2012 7:14 AM



President Hugo Chavez rallied tens of thousands of supporters on Monday, wearing his signature red beret and singing a folk song as he formalized his presidential candidacy and launched his re-election bid.

Chavez waved and blew kisses to crowds as he rode atop a truck to the country's elections office, then picked up a document registering as a candidate. Afterward, he stepped onto a stage and energetically sang along with a band to a traditional tune from the rural plains where he was born. Chavez laughed and danced briefly on stage.

The 57-year-old leader, a former army paratroop commander first elected in 1998, is seeking another six-year term in the Oct. 7 presidential vote. His struggle with cancer has recently forced him to scale back his public appearances and has raised questions about whether his health may interfere with the re-election campaign.

"It was a difficult year," Chavez said in a speech to cheering crowd. "Here I am, before you again!"

Read more: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/06/12/chavez-rallies-thousands-launching-re-election-bid.html

[nanabugg]

18. We always call them "paid thugs" when they are not capitalist, greedy thugs,

No matter what the people want, we always call their leaders (elected or not) dictators and we call the people paid thugs. We will never learn. All the Socialist leaders elected in S.America and Central America are only elected by paid thugs.

[bitchkitty]

2. Well, golly gee!

Not exactly on his death bed. The vulture contingent of DU is going to be very disappointed.

[joshcryer]

5. I'm no fan of Chavez, but I hope he lives until election day.

[bitchkitty]

21. Jesus, you guys kill me.

You can't just say "I hope he lives". You can't make a simple statement expressing your humanity without qualifying it: "I'm no fan of Chavez."

How goddamned TACKY, and that's the nicest thing I can say.

[joshcryer]

31. I was distinguishing myself from your grotesque "vulture" characterization.

I am not on Chavez-death-watch and I despise it in Venezuelan rumor circles. I'm following the Venezuelan elections more closely than our own and I find them fascinating.

I want Chavez to compete, not die. I want to see what happens. If he dies Capriles wins by default. I do not want that to happen.

[Ken Burch]

51. It would be reactionary and miserable if Capriles wins

He's never cared about the poor, and you can't care about the poor and get backing from the wealthy.

[joshcryer]

72. This is just false, the primary polls have him polling across all demographics.

[bitchkitty]

63. Yea, sure.

I see straight through your false sympathy. It's really something to watch, and you're not the only vulture around here.

He's not going to die any time soon, so the flock can stop circling. You won't though; it's not in your nature.

[joshcryer]

73. Yeah, because the "vultures" weren't circling in Caprile's registration thread.

In fact the people who marched for him were even called "fascist blackshirts."

[bitchkitty]

84. Is Capriles ill?

You are either not understanding why I use the term vulture, or you are pretending not to. Either way, it's a waste of time to argue with you and the rest of your flock.

[joshcryer]

86. Nope, but Chavista's tried to assassinate him.

I'm sure that they would've been gleeful had he died.

[bitchkitty]

91. WOW.

That's some brilliant insight you got there, cowboy. Is it genetic or did you take a lot of drugs in the 70s?

[Bacchus4.0]

92. so you didn't hear about the Capriles rally in Caracas where Chavistas were shooting

at the pro-Capriles people and shot the son of one of the opposition politicians? as far as I know, no arrests have been made although the perpetrators have been identified.

[bitchkitty]

93. Have you heard about the

demonstrations where pro-Chavez demonstrators were shooting at pro-fuckwad demonstrators on the street below and...oops, never mind. THAT TURNED OUT TO BE A FUCKING LIE.

So I'm sure that you'll understand why I call bullshit on all these "reports" that are coming from the right wing. You should too, but you don't. It makes one wonder...

[Bacchus4.0]

94. here you go

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=475124&CategoryId=10717

I will summarize:

Red shirted fascist "progressive" chavista fuckfaces fire shots during a Capriles rally.

[bitchkitty]

95. I repeat,

So I'm sure that you'll understand why I call bullshit on all these "reports" that are coming from the right wing. You should too, but you don't. It makes one wonder...

[Bacchus4.0]

96. those who deny reality make me wonder. n/t

s

[bitchkitty]

108. Those who front for the right wing make me sick. n/t

[Bacchus4.0]

121. attempted assassinations make me sick n/t

s

[joshcryer]

124. Justice First is left of the Progressive Caucus.

That's how left wing they are. They are not right wingers.

[bitchkitty]

127. Oh, really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_First

Justice First Movement (Movimiento Primero Justicia) is a centre-right political party in Venezuela.

They are, and have been described as center right, but Capriles has started to call himself center left, so as not to scare away voters. Of course, he has plenty of help in various media to help him push this lie, as you are well aware.

Thankfully, most people can see through it.

[joshcryer]

128. Designations used doesn't change that their policies are left of our progressive caucus.

I don't know anyone in the progressive caucus, for instance, who wants to give everyone free housing. I could be wrong on that count.

[bitchkitty]

129. Because of course Capriles is a saint who

has never, ever lied in his life, and the RIGHT WING would never lie or misrepresent to seize power. No, they would never do that.

They are not left in any way, shape or form. Only very stupid, ignorant, or severely retarded people would think that. Or say it, for that matter.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Hugo Chávez launches re-election bid in front of thousands of supporters

Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez switched from battling cancer to fighting a re-election campaign on Monday as he formally declared his candidacy in typically ebullient style with an open-top parade through a sea of supporters and a ten minutes singing performance.

Blowing kisses and waving vigorously to the crowd as they chanted political slogans and get-well wishes, the former paratroop commander made his way to the National Electorate Office where he registered for the 7 October elections.

Amid rumours that his cancer is so far advanced that he may not survive until voting day, all eyes were on Chávez's physical well-being but the charismatic leader surprised many of his doubters by walking the short distance from his open-top truck to the registration desk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/12/hugo-chavez-launches-election-campaign

[joshcryer]

4. Chavez = tens of thousands. Capriles = hundreds of thousands.

Chavez foe launches candidacy, leads massive march in Venezuela
CARACAS, Venezuela -- Opposition leader Henrique Capriles marched through Venezuela's capital Sunday accompanied by hundreds of thousands of supporters as he formally launched his candidacy to run against President Hugo Chavez.

Surrounded by supporters waving red, yellow and blue Venezuelans flags, Capriles marched and jogged from a park in eastern Caracas toward the headquarters of the National Elections Council, 6 miles (10 kilometers) away, where he formally registered.

“I want to be everybody's president, not the president of a single group,” Capriles told the crowd, repeating his theme that his campaign is trying to bridge the country's deep political divisions, in contrast to Chavez's often-inflammatory attacks on rivals.

“I am not anybody's enemy,” Capriles said. “I'm the enemy of problems.”

Chavez rides in on a chariot, Capriles marches with the people. A man of the people.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Might depend on who's doing the reporting

aside from which :

"Opposition leader Henrique Capriles marched through Venezuela's capital on Sunday accompanied by tens of thousands of supporters in a rally to formally launch his candidacy for the presidency." http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014140334

[joshcryer]

7. I saw both.

There's no way Chavez got as many people to show up as Capriles.

Here's another one:

Venezuela's Chavez stages cancer-comeback rally
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez led his biggest rally since he was diagnosed with cancer a year ago, seeking to stage a show of strength on Monday as he heads into a re-election campaign to extend his 13 years of socialist rule.

The former soldier delivered a nearly three-hour speech with his practiced mix of folkloric spontaneity and militant discourse, marking a dramatic re-entry into the public eye after months of keeping a low profile during cancer treatment.

The event was all the more important after his opposition rival, Henrique Capriles, put on a show of youthful vigor on Sunday by leading a 10-km (6.2-mile) march with hundreds of thousands of supporters.

Tens of thousands is a subset of hundreds of thousands, but not the other way around. The only reports I can find with "Chavez" and "hundreds of thousands" mention Capriles.

[harmonicon]

8. While your hate for Chavez and the left in general is more adorable than harmful...

polls have Chavez up. We'll see what the people of Venezuela want when the election is over.

Despite all this, I don't think you're doing yourself any favours for criticizing a cancer patient for riding in a car instead of walking.

[joshcryer]

9. For what it's worth I hope with every fiber of my being that he lives until Oct. 7th.

And I will be OK with the outcome no matter what. If he wins then good for him, even if I think that the Venezuelan population is not really geared up to elect him a 3rd time (despite the polls).

And he didn't ride in a car, it was every definition of a chariot. I mean, Pope Mobile x100! (Less the 5 inch bulletproof glass, anyhow.)

I would've been less critical if it was a car and he just got out and registered and then gave his speech.

But that shit was just ridiculous.

[Ken Burch]

67. You say that as if there's no possible way that the people of Venezuela

could possibly re-elect the guy of their own free will.

There's no way that Chavez could possibly have done anything to justify the virulent hatred you feel towards him. He's not Stalin, for God's sake. Nor is he Satan. He's just another elected leader, one who, for whatever reason, you happen to dislike. But Chavez has never done anything to deserve being treated as if his tenure in office is illegitimate.

[joshcryer]

77. I did not say that, you're saying I'm ruling out that possiblity, it's simply untrue.

I do not rule it out and I think Capriles has an uphill battle. I still back the underdog for that reason. Also, your reading comprehension is quite thin, "virulent hatred"? Where have I expressed that? I'm simply defending Capriles against the real vultures here.

[Judi Lynn]

10. Looks as if they put a platform on top of a truck. Looks like a good idea, doesn't it?

He's able to see a lot of people, vice versa.

How many leaders with the kind of powerful enemies he has would dare to do the same?

I have a pretty good idea how people with cancer feel about cheap shots from "healthy" people. You're absolutely right.

On edit, found another photo:

[center] [/center]

[joshcryer]

11. Nope looks like royalty wants to prove its superiority.

Horrible choice.

[harmonicon]

12. You're clutching at straws.

This is politics. Politicians - especially when they're campaigning - are on display. That's the point. I cannot think of anyone of any political stripe who hasn't done the same when running for office. While I think it would be great if politicians were faceless, and elected based on reasoned policy positions alone, that's not the case. I know that most people aren't like me in that respect.

[joshcryer]

14. Oh, I agree. I'm sure sold well.

My opinion is based on the utter display of superiority. I'm sure many Chavista's were championing their 'king' arriving via chariot, that's fine by me. As far as I'm concerned it is a disgusting display of power and authority.

Had he simply arrived via car, got out, registered, and returned for his speech I would've been more respectful, but no, he had to pretend to be some sort of "god." One who was so beyond cancer that he could give a 3.5 hour speech without it impeeding him. Good for him, the message was clear. Fuck that narrative.

[Comrade Grumpy]

20. Oh, this is ridiculous. You're really stretching.

[Ken Burch]

54. It doesn't matter what vehicle he showed up in.

Capriles is the candidate of the people with chauffeurs. That's what you have to be if you're the pro-privatization candidate.

And you know perfectly well that disbanding the community councils, like Capriles would do, would leave the poor and the workers with no power, since such people never get represented in conventional legislatures.

[Ken Burch]

53. Capriles represents the economic royalty

If you back private-sector solutions, you're right-wing on everything else.

It would be a tragedy for every poor person and every worker in Venezuela if Capriles wins...because that would mean Wall Street and the State Department win.

Don't put Venezuela through the misery Nicaragua went through in the Nineties-or Chile under Pinochet.

[joshcryer]

125. Castro is a right winger now? Privitizing 2 million Cuban jobs?

Interesting to know.

Capriles would save Venezuela from the Chinese imperialism that Venezuela is undergoing. Removing all of Venezuela's meager production capacity overseas. It's a really raw deal for Venezuela and Capriles promises to bring it back. One house and one school at a time.

[Judi Lynn]

13. Found another photo taken the same day:

[center] [/center]

[joshcryer]

15. Good photo.

Compare to Capriles:

[dipsydoodle]

16. Why not just call it a draw

[joshcryer]

17. It's definitely a draw.

A lot of rural people were unable to make it to Chavez' registration. Capriles still has an uphill battle to win.

But I think he'll manage.

[Ken Burch]

55. Even though you actually want the rich to win.

If Chavez hadn't been in power in Venezuela in the last couple of decades, the country would have been as hopeless and useless as Brazil and Chile under their "moderate" governments...imposing austerity on the poor and giving more and more privileges to the rich. How could you think that possibly could have been better?

Your pro-upper class attitude is really tiring.

[sabrina 1]

23. Compare Rightwing rallies here for the presidential election to Leftwing rallies, even when the

right winger is a war criminal and you would think the people would know better.

You do know this guy's history I'm sure, and for the sake of the people of Venezuela, I would not wish a far right winger on them or anyone else. When did democrats begin rooting for the far right in Venezuela btw, I was trying to remember exactly when it began and the closest I came was around 2004. According to revelations, some from Wikileaks, a lot of money has been poured into getting that support here, for what reason since it's no one's business here who those people elect, you have to wonder about.

What I hope is that if Chavez loses, Venezuela gets the equivalent of a good, progressive democrat here, rather than the equivalent of a corrupt, far right tea-bagger type who would plunge their country back to where it was before Chavez was elected and spent his time improving the conditions of the poor.

[ChangoLoa]

27. So now, Capriles is a war criminal...

And a far right politician?

Would you care to give any argument supporting that very peculiar view?
Not even the Venezuelan chavista say what you say... because it sounds very funny and strange in our internal context.

Just in case, for the 3 or 4 usual witch-hunters in DU, I'm a Venezuelan and have always militated in socialist or marxist organizations. For me, Capriles is a centrist - so not my cup of tea indeed - but he clearly is left to the US Democratic party which, for Venezuelan standards, is a (kind of center) right wing party. Not an extreme right wing party, like the Republican party is, but still not a progressive party.

In his proposals ('officialization' of all social programs in the Constitution, complete disarm of the population, a significant increase in the public investment in education and a reduction of the military spending), Capriles if left to (almost) any US Democratic party leader.

I'm curious: do you consider Obama to be a far right winger too?

[sabrina 1]

35. Who is his father? And who are his coalition partners?

[ChangoLoa]

47. His father was a businessman in the cookies industry I think. Have you heard about JFK's?

... JFK's quasi-hitlerian father?

[Ken Burch]

81. Yes, we know of Joe Kennedy, Sr.

He made quite a lot of U.S. liberals uncomfortable back in the day.

[Ken Burch]

57. What does " 'officialization' of all social programs in the Constitution" even mean?

It sounds like code for "cut them down to nothing and remind the poor of their place".

Chavez does not deserve to be treated like an illegitimate leader, as if he has no right to have been repeatedly re-elected.

Nothing in Venezuela would be better if Chavez had left office earlier.

[ChangoLoa]

62. I know, my English isn't good. It means to make them a constitutional right

to enforce the social programs (Misiones) by law, instead of having them depend on the executive's decision.

For example, earlier this year the president decided that every 60+ year old citizen would get a retirement pension, independently of the fact that he worked or paid contributions earlier. The "Gran Misión en Amor Mayor" opened and all the elder could make the inscription and wait for their benefits.

It sounded like a great social measure, since 45% of the population works in the informal sector and don't get to pay any contribution for their retirement. But it's not a law. People under 60 weren't allowed to enter the scheme. And the Misión closed in february. It was a punctual measure during an election year. The intention may be good, but it isn't institutionalized.

I would clearly prefer to see the "Gran Misión en Amor Mayor" become a constitutional right, a law of universal retirement benefits. IMHO Capriles has a very good point on this particular issue. It's one of the few where I agree with him.

And no, Chavez does not deserve to be treated like an illegitimate leader. It should be obvious, but shouldn't be used as some kind of cheap intellectual filter to avoid self-criticism. Except if you're thrilled to exclusively discuss this issues with conservative, anti-red Americans...

[Ken Burch]

69. It's not like Chavez would oppose including them in the Constitution.

What bothers me is the implication that everything Chavez and the PSUV have done is inherently illegitimate, and that this Capriles fellow HAS to be brought in for Venezuela to be able to claim to be a "democracy&quot assuming that word even means anything to "pro-business" types or Venezuelan billionaires).

And if the community councils were abolished(as we can assume Capriles would do)how could that NOT create a system that was permanently biased towards the middle-class and the wealthy(the only people that ever win in conventional "representative democracy", a form of governance that always puts property before human needs).

[joshcryer]

76. Who has implied that?

No one, it's just a caricature to win points and slander people who know more about Venezuela than you do.

Capriles will not abolish the community councils.

[joshcryer]

28. Capriles is not a far right winger, he is a leftist.

"Chavez-lite" is the best way to describe him. The difference is he's not an incompetent blubbering charlatan who pretends to care about the people while squandering resources. He actually does care about the Venezuelan people. He build more houses and schools in his state than the Venezuelan government did with less money and resources, faster, and more efficiently.

He is loved and adored by all stripes of Venezuelans, across the board. The polls after the election shows that in fact he is loved and adored by all demographics in Venezuela (not just the "rich" which is a chavista lie in order to slander a highly respected fighter for Venezuelans).

Capriles will be the next president of Venezuela and he's to the left of even the most left wing congress person in congress.

[sabrina 1]

34. He is the son of a rightwing media mogul

The equivalent of Murdoch's son running and claiming to be 'progressive'. He participated in the coup against Chavez which hardly makes him a 'leftie'. But he knows how popular Chavez's policies are and would not have a chance if he were to oppose them. He has formed alliances with the rightwing opposition, and is the epitome of what once ruled Venezuela.

He is for the same things the neo liberals are for, privatizing Venezuela's social programs, like Reagan.

Chavez retains a 55% popularity rating, after a decade of the people experiencing his policies. So any attempt by the opposition to try to turn back those policies would end their campaign.

It is a complement to Chavez that they know how fatal politically it would be to talk about turning back the progress Chavez has made for the poor and for women especially.

It never fails to amaze me the support for any opposition in Venezuela for what the people there themselves do not want.

Interesting to read his positions, they are the very definition of Reagan failed policies, dressed up in the same language.

He opposed free education, free Health Care, and it sounds like he is being advised by the neo-liberals who helped crash the world's economy, the disastrous results affecting even South American countries.

He is merely the front for the old right wing oligarchs, who cannot win an election in Venezuela.

No progressive is for privatizing education and HC anywhere in the world so I hope for the sake of the people there, he doesn't get enough money from the Oil Cartels and use enough of his father's media empire to fool the people as Sarkozy did in France. So far it doesn't seem to be working too well.

[joshcryer]

38. All the old oligarchs are gone, ousted from power. The rest of that is nonsense.

If Chavez did anything good it was getting rid of the oligarchs and rendering them powerless by filling his government with chavistas. Though the cronyism exists, with the millionaire behind Venevision, the TV station that engineered the coup, still sitting fat and happy.

Meanwhile Capriles is not against "free education, free Health Care" nor is he "being advised by the neo-liberals who helped crash the world's economy." In fact, Capriles whole platform is free education. He built hundreds of schools in his state even as the Chavistas withheld funding from his state (they wanted him to fail).

I would really like to know what your sources are, because you are clearly highly misinformed and it sounds like this stuff is really made up. I mean, seriously, anyone who has followed the campaign even one iota would know that free education is Capriles' platform. Not privatizing education!





Do these people not want Capriles?

[Bacchus4.0]

41. I get the feeling that those claims are simply made up

note there is never any proof to back up the assertions.

[joshcryer]

43. I want to see the source so I can add it to a list of asinine sources.

I would love the source!

[Bacchus4.0]

39. oh, I'd love to see the links to claims you make about Capriles' positions n/t

d

[joshcryer]

42. It sounds like they read Capriles' platform and then prepended "is against" to it.

Seriously, like this:

Capriles is against ... Free Education for all Venezuelans

Capriles is against ... Housing Grants for all Venezuelans

Capriles is against ... Unity for all Venezuelans

Capriles is against ... Security for the Country

Capriles is against ... Reducing Crime / Murder Rate

[Bacchus4.0]

44. bogus claims indeed. could you imagine if Capriles was against free health care???

and free education. He would not be in the position he is in currently.

[joshcryer]

45. He would not have got almost 3 million votes in the primaries that's for damn sure.

Anyway, I found some of the allegations on Granma. Claiming he participated in the coup (false, a lie), claimed he failed to stop a mob and detained the embassy people (false, a lie, cleared of all charges). I don't understand how rational, free thinking individuals can read Granma, the language there is just, pure propaganda, the way everything is so delicately phrased in such a way as to insult your common sense.

[Ken Burch]

56. There's nothing good in Capriles-he just wants to put the rich back in power.

He has no real achievements and he has never cared about the workers or the poor-you can't have a conscience about social justice and be "pro-business".

[joshcryer]

70. He has done more for the poor with less resources in Miranda...

...than Chavez has done for the entire country, proportionately to resources available.

[Ken Burch]

58. "Unity for all Venezuelans' just means teaching the poor to obey the rich

It couldn't mean anything positive. Unity is just right-wing code for "know your place".

[joshcryer]

71. That's quite perverse. He means that he isn't going to pull a Chavez and divide the country.

The Chavistas can have it their way or the highway. The Tascón List proves it.

[Ken Burch]

87. The division isn't Chavez' fault.

It's the fault of the rich, who have refused to treat him as a legitimate head of government even though he came to power in every case as the result of a free, fair, and totally legitimate election.

There's no such thing as a wealthy person in Venezuela who cares about the poor or wants social equality. To them, "unity" just means being obeyed.

[joshcryer]

88. Yes it is, just listen to any of Chavez' speeches. Highly divisive.

[Ken Burch]

89. The rich were always destined to be anti-Chavez no matter what rhetoric he used.

They were simply never going to accept that any Venezuelan government had the right to represent the poor and the workers. None of the anti-Chavez/pro-coup types had ever supported anything progressive BEFORE Chavez.

[ChangoLoa]

46. No, he isn't. You're diffusing wrong information.

And now I'm really starting to think that you're pretending that you have "read his positions"!

Where have you read them??

(Sabrina, please note that this comes from a person who dislikes Capriles since he became a politician)

Cheers

[Ken Burch]

59. You can't be a leftist and be pro-privatization.

Fiscal conservatism is right-wing. So is being "pro-business".

The fact that the rich support Capriles automatically discredits him. To be wealthy is to hate the poor.

[joshcryer]

74. That's patent bullshit. Leftists are not for "nationalization."

The wealthy in Venezuela support Capriles simply because he's not Chavez. They hate that he's going to continue Chavez' policies.

[Ken Burch]

80. Leftists are for reorganizing the economy

so that short-term private gain isn't the main point. If you put short-term private self-interest first, you automatically create a right-wing society. Left things can only happen in a society that puts human needs BEFORE profit.

There's no place in Latin America in which the rich are getting richer AND life is getting better for the poor. Those two things can never happen at the same time.

[joshcryer]

82. That's better. Yet, Capriles is not for massive pritivization.

He thinks, for example, that giving a Venezuelan a grant to build or repair their house is a better way to spend government money rather than paying Chinese to come in and at outrageous prices, build houses. The cronyism runs deep in PSUV, with billions of dollars missing in the Fonden fund. There is direct evidence that new policies are implemented and corporations are created out of thin air to achieve a project for several times what it would cost to do it if Venezuelans did it themselves and purchased what they needed directly, except what happens is they use phantom third party corporations only for those corporation to slip off the radar.

This is why Capriles is a good candidate because he will get rid of the crony aspects. The guy is a numbers guy, he learned tax law, he knows how to balance the sheets and get rid of excess cronyism that is robbing Venezuelans blind. Venezuela has an oil country level of income but a post-disaster or warzone level of crime. It's simply unacceptable to any rational leftist.

[Judi Lynn]

83. Do you have any reference to Capriles and your claim he "build more houses and schools in his state

than the Venezuelan government did with less money and resources, faster, and more efficiently?"

It's something almost everyone has overlooked, by all means. Please provide a good link.

[joshcryer]

85. I doubt it's overlooked, I think people just don't want to accept that Chavismo isn't the best.

[Ken Burch]

52. No one other than the rich is really a Capriles supporter

And you can't say you're progressive and want anything that Hillary Clinton would want.

Capriles wants privatization...and privatization has to mean being just like Chile under Pinochet.

[JackRiddler]

109. Are you quoting the propaganda style book?

If you gotta play team politics, at least you're consistently on whatever side the empire is backing.

[joshcryer]

116. Another insulter to jump on in the conversation!

I've been totally cordial even when the same pro-totalitarians jump in to defend even the most horrific things (such as a young girl being murdered by police).

[Vidar]

19. Viva Chavez!

[Judi Lynn]

22. Found a video of the registration for candidacy by Hugo Chavez on June 11, 2012.

Of course there was not a parade, but there was a large gathering at the location where he went to register his candidacy.

Hugo Chávez Candidato de la Patria Venezuela. Inscrioción ante el pueblo en el CNE
Google translation: Hugo Chavez Venezuela Candidate of the country. Inscrioción to the people at the CNE

[sabrina 1]

24. The Global Oil Cartels are not going to be happy. I'm sure they're pouring money into the

far right wing candidate's campaign. Read a little about him btw. Seems his family owns part of the rightwing media there. If only Venezuela had a dictatorship, they could shut down the media and eliminate all other candidates ensuring the dictator 99% of the vote.

[Bacchus4.0]

25. the Chavez administration already has declared that former candidate Lopez

could not hold office. http://latindispatch.com/2011/10/18/venezuela-supreme-court-casts-doubt-on-chavez-rivals-presidential-bid/

Note that Venezuelan law under Chavez disqualifies candidates merely on allegations of corruption, not convictions. And the government already has the media content laws and has refused to renew non-chavista broadcast media.

THere is no indication that Capriles is a right winger. Chavistas have attacked him for his Jewish origins and foreign minister Maduro called Capriles a big faggot.

[joshcryer]

26. The tactics used by Chavistas are right wing in comparison to Primero Justicia.

If anyone is right wing in this race it is the Chavistas.

Saying anti-Semitic garbage about Capriles, questioning Capriles' sexuality (because he's single and isn't "machado" like Chavismo puts off). This all coming from state media or high state officials. Maduro actually "apologized" for his remark but it was half hearted at best (one of those, "sorry if anyone was offended" types of apologies).

[Bacchus4.0]

29. agreed. when it comes to Chavistas, up is down and right is left n/t

s

[joshcryer]

30. Yep, they even use voter suppression / messaging tactics right out of a teabagger / GOP playbook:

I'm not sure if you saw this shit: http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/120531/briquet-denuncia-plan-de-sabotaje-a-campana-de-capriles

[Bacchus4.0]

32. didn't see that one, thanks. I was down "south" for 9 days lets no forget the shooting incident

of recent either where Chavistas shot and wounded the son of one of the politicians. unbelievable tactics. the tea baggers are actually tame compared to the Chavistas frankly speaking.

[joshcryer]

33. Don't get me started on their withdrawing from the ILO.

Right wing to the core. And still given a pass because we live in an alternate reality where up is down and black is white. Some people just can't think for themselves.

[Ken Burch]

49. Bullshit.

It's right-wing to support Capriles. The fact that he's backed by all the wealthy in Venezuela proves that.

Nothing private sector is ever good for the poor or the workers.

You'd probably have cheered for UNO in Nicaragua back in '90-and Pinochet in '73. That's what being "anticommunist" means...hating the poor.

[sabrina 1]

36. The same thing happens anywhere, if someone has a corruption cloud hanging over their heads,

if their own party doesn't throw them to the curb, the opposition will. See Anthony Weiner who merely was involved in some cyber sex. His own party tossed him.

I see nothing unusual about that, it's politics, even worse here.

[Bacchus4.0]

37. it is the actual administration that has barred numerous opposition candidates

from office simply by using corruption allegations.

I always thought it was right wingers who use racism and homophobic rhetoric against their opponents. Not in Venezuela.

[Ken Burch]

50. You're just doing right-wing propaganda

It's reactionary to want Capriles to win. It means you don't give a shit about the poor...because you can't care about the poor and want anything to swing to the right.

[joshcryer]

40. Um, if Hillary Clinton said what he said, and it was posted on WhiteHouse.gov...

...she would be fired immediately, there would be an investigation, and the WhiteHouse staffers that posted it to WhiteHouse.gov would be summarily fired and everyone involved would lose their jobs.

I find this defense of "it's politics" to be vile and contemptible. That is not "just politics." Any high level politicians, here, calling Obama the things that the Chavista's have called Capriles, would be in deep crap.

[Ken Burch]

61. Capriles is just pretending to be progressive

He's backed by every millionaire and billionaire in the country. He's the candidate who's going to get rid of the community councils, a step that would automatically render the poor and the workers totally powerless.

Only the rich win legislative elections.

[ChangoLoa]

64. ...

our country is astoundingly easy to figure out for you!

[joshcryer]

78. Totally false. You're reading Granma or some other propaganda site for that information.

[Ken Burch]

60. OK, the gaybashing was wrong

But it's right-wing to want Chavez to lose...because that's what the State Department and Wall Street want. Don't you get it?

[joshcryer]

79. Chavismo is right wing state capitalism that has led to 150k murdered Venezuelans.

And was less effective than the social democracies at reducing poverty, with far more resources at their disposal. Had Chavez not been a meddling military punk whose only claim to intellectual prowess is that he joined the military to play baseball I'm sure he could've achieved far more for Venezuela, without his efforts leading to 150k murdered Venezuelans.

Capriles is not a friend to Wall Street. Wall Street would've preferred someone like Leopold Lopez, or even María Corina Machado. Neither of whom were particularly appealing candidates to the Venezuelan people at large.

[Bacchus4.0]

90. dumbest post in awhile which is saying alot

I'd say the Obama administration would prefer to work with a new leader in general. I support Obama, not Hugo.

[bitchkitty]

97. No, the post below it is the definitely the stupidest:

Chavismo is right wing state capitalism that has led to 150k murdered Venezuelans

[Judi Lynn]

99. We never see that crappola, not even in our goober corporate faux "news" (for idiots only) media.

As for a f'r example U.S. Americans could read, and learn, you'll probably see a link in Spanish arrive hot and steaming, along with, if you're lucky, an insult if you mention English is better for U.S. American readers.

[joshcryer]

105. Coming from someone who can't understand Spanish that's rich.

[joshcryer]

104. It could've been phrased better. I should've said it is a crony capitalist state...

...where rich plutocrats belatedly allow their businesses to be taken over by the state, get a large cash payout, and then watch as the state mismanages the business only to repeat the cycle. Start a new business, cash out, wash, rinse, repeat.

[bitchkitty]

107. Uh, are you drunk or just flailing helplessly?

You go from

Chavismo is right wing state capitalism that has led to 150k murdered Venezuelans.

to

a crony capitalist state where rich plutocrats belatedly allow their businesses to be taken over by the state, get a large cash payout, and then watch as the state mismanages the business only to repeat the cycle. Start a new business, cash out, wash, rinse, repeat.

You are not making any sense at all, and mixing up your lies. Try to keep track please.

[joshcryer]

114. Are you capable of discussing without insulting people?

I don't think I've seen one honest bit of conversation from you since I started responding. This is pointless.

[bitchkitty]

117. Stop playing victim. When you start making sense,

and stop repeating lies and right wing talking points, then we can have a discussion. I won't hold my breath.

[joshcryer]

119. I have said nothing that is a lie in this thread. The right wing isn't concerned about much...

...of what I've brought up here (indeed, they'd prefer a bunch of people die, just look at Colombia's AUC, responsible itself for hundreds of thousands of deaths).

The only lies are those spread by those who buy into "left wing" nonsense propaganda untruths.

Point out one lie I've said in this thread or I will consider you incapable of having a discussion with me further.

[Ken Burch]

111. You can't have a state with any left values

without at least some significant sector of the economy being taken out of private ownership(ideally to be put under worker management).

Private ownership always creates a right-wing society. Look at Thatcher's UK.

[joshcryer]

115. I agree. And Chavismo has not been a friend of unions and they recently pulled out of ILO.

But I refuse to believe that Cuba is "going right wing" because it's privatizing 2 million jobs.

[Ken Burch]

98. In Latin America, the U.S. position is always "fuck the people".

That hasn't changed. And it was supposed to, dammit. Obama wasn't supposed to agree with the Bushes or Reagan or Nixon on anything at all.

[joshcryer]

106. Obama had good relations with Venezuela until Wikileaks. Then Chavez got a hot head.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/30/chavez_on_wikileaks_hillary_clinton_thinks_she_is_superior_to_the_black_guy_should_

Started spouting nonsense because some diplomat that Obama didn't even hire was saying stupid shit about Chavez. Stuff Obama likely wouldn't have taken seriously or which probably would've never reached his desk.

[Ken Burch]

48. Here's to Hugo!

He's got his flaws, but he's the ONLY candidate in the race that gives a damn about the workers and the poor. If you want privatization, you're automatically on the side of misery. All privatization is theft.

[ChangoLoa]

65. Sorry, but which privatization are you talking about?

[Ken Burch]

68. The ones he'll launch the day after getting sworn in

When he announces that he's suddenly found a "crisis" that requires submission to the IMF...and which will then lead to Capriles siccing the cops on the workers like Perez did.

You have no reason to trust this guy. He's backed by the wealthy and the U.S.

[joshcryer]

75. Oh, so it's a conspiracy, you don't actually have evidence for it.

Fair enough. I get that a lot when it pertains to Venezuela. Nevermind that the Chavista's are selling Venezuela piecemeal to China...

[pa28]

66. Chavez is looking quite athletic for a guy supposedly on his deathbed.

I wish him health and a resounding victory in October.

[Judi Lynn]

100. Venezuela among the Happiest Countries of Latin America

Venezuela among the Happiest Countries of Latin America
Friday 01 June 2012

The World Happiness Report 2012 presented by Columbia University, USA, recognized Venezuela as the happiest country in South America and placed it among the first in Latin America.

According to that report, Venezuelans also stand out for being in the place 19 among the happiest nations worldwide on a list of 156, up from Spain, Mexico and Brazil, among others.

A press release from the Ministry for Communication and Information disclosed that the Latin America country is only surpassed by Costa Rica, which ranks 12 in the list.

The world's happiest countries are the Nordic countries Denmark, Finland, Norway and Holland, in contrast to the most unhappy countries: Togo, Benin, Central African Republic, Sierra Leone and Burundi in Africa.

http://www.insidecostarica.com/dailynews/2012/june/01/latinlamerica12060101.htm

[DeSwiss]

101. K&R n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

102. I'll say this for Chaves, the leaders of his opposition are worse

They are all displaced plutocrats upset because he cost them all fortunes. In this situation with so much disinformation and propaganda I tend to side with the person elected by the people on the ground there that really know what is going on.

[joshcryer]

103. No, they are not. They cash in when Venezuela expropriates their dying businesses.

Then they still get paid by the government after the fact. It's a win win for a lot of them. Yeah, a bunch of corporations don't like it, but corporations aren't people.

[Ken Burch]

112. Nothing progressive could ever have happened in Venezuela

if those businesses had stayed under private ownership.

[joshcryer]

113. Tell that to Cuba which is pritivizing 2 million jobs.

[Bacchus4.0]

122. haha good one, but the Cuban government is actually becoming more progressive

in some aspects while the Venezuelan government less.

[joshcryer]

126. Actually, because they charge rent, I consider it right wing capitalism.

I find it abhorrent that they are charging rent! The whole fucking POINT of socialism is POSSESSIVE PROPERTY! Just bugs me big time that they're charging rent. Those individuals working in the private sector could gain so much if the state wasn't extorting from them.

They're just trying to fucking cash out before the system comes crumbling down on them.

It's just like the fall of Russia, all over again, only now they know how to cash out.

[JackRiddler]

110. Thanks Judi! ...

But is it a requirement around here that all the Venezuela stories, even from those who have their head on straight and aren't thirsting for the next CIA-backed coup to bring the death squads back, come from Arrogant Propaganda? Just a note. Notice the other thread - "massive" vs. "thousands."

I was recently at a march with a minimum of 50,000 people that barely got any coverage and when it did, was described as "hundreds!"

[Judi Lynn]

118. Yup, it is a requirement for LBN. We always know how the piece will go if the subject is a leftist.

Just found an interesting article on the CIA and corporate media, which might have something worth scanning. This part concerns Democratic Senator Frank Church's committee investigating CIA personel and journalism, long ago, in 1973:

Journalism and the CIA: The Mighty Wurlitzer
by Daniel Brandt
From NameBase NewsLine, No. 17, April-June 1997

~snip~
The committee staff was shocked at the extent of the CIA's activity in this area, and felt that they still didn't have the story. But they were running out of time, and expected that the Senate's new permanent oversight committee would continue their work. The Church committee's final report contained only a handful of vague and misleading pages on the CIA and the media. "It hardly reflects what was found," stated Senator Gary Hart. "There was a prolonged and elaborate negotiation (with the CIA) over what would be said."[5]

The House investigation of the CIA, under Otis Pike, had more problems than the Senate investigation. The full House voted to suppress its committee's final report under pressure from the executive branch, at which point Daniel Schorr of CBS leaked a copy to the Village Voice. This report contained just twelve paragraphs on the topic of the CIA and the media, including the tidbit about the CIA's "frequent manipulation of Reuters wire service dispatches."[6] Another paragraph gave some idea of the scope of the CIA's efforts in this area:

Some 29 percent of Forty Committee-approved covert actions were for media and propaganda projects. This number is probably not representative. Staff has determined the existence of a large number of CIA internally-approved operations of this type, apparently deemed not politically sensitive. It is believed that if the correct number of all media and propaganda projects could be determined, it would exceed Election Support as the largest single category of covert action projects undertaken by the CIA.[7]

One enterprising researcher took this 29 percent figure, and extrapolating from figures on CIA expenditures for covert operations, found that the cost of propaganda in 1978 was around $265 million and involved 2,000 personnel. Comparing this to figures for other news agencies, he concluded that the CIA "uses far more resources in its propaganda operations than any single news agency.... In fact, the CIA propaganda budget is as large as the combined budgets of Reuters, United Press International and the Associated Press."[8]

http://www.namebase.org/news17.html

Also, regarding just information from the Church committee's investigation:

The report is particularly critical of the CIA’s successful, and clandestine, manipulation of the US media. It observes: “The CIA currently maintains a network of several hundred foreign individuals around the world who provide intelligence for the CIA and at times attempt to influence opinion through the use of covert propaganda. These individuals provide the CIA with direct access to a large number of newspapers and periodicals, scores of press services and news agencies, radio and television stations, commercial book publishers, and other foreign media outlets.” The report identifies over 50 US journalists directly employed by the CIA, along with many others who were affiliated and paid by the CIA, and reveals the CIA’s policy to have “their” journalists and authors publish CIA-approved information, and disinformation, overseas in order to get that material disseminated in the United States. The report quotes the CIA’s Chief of the Covert Action Staff as writing, “Get books published or distributed abroad without revealing any US influence, by covertly subsidizing foreign publicans or booksellers.…Get books published for operational reasons, regardless of commercial viability.…The advantage of our direct contact with the author is that we can acquaint him in great detail with our intentions; that we can provide him with whatever material we want him to include and that we can check the manuscript at every stage…. (The agency) must make sure the actual manuscript will correspond with our operational and propagandistic intention.” The report finds that over 1,000 books were either published, subsidized, or sponsored by the CIA by the end of 1967; all of these books were published in the US either in their original form or excerpted in US magazines and newspapers. “In examining the CIA’s past and present use of the US media,” the report observes, “the Committee finds two reasons for concern. The first is the potential, inherent in covert media operations, for manipulating or incidentally misleading the American public. The second is the damage to the credibility and independence of a free press which may be caused by covert relationships with the US journalists and media organizations.”

More:
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=frank_church_1

This attempt to investigate them was far, far back, decades ago. They must be so much better at it now, consider who owns all the papers, tv news, magazines, etc., etc.

Damned sad, isn't it?

[Judi Lynn]

120. We got a real view of how corporate media cover leftist demonstrations when Bush was the pResident.

There were huge marches and demonstrations starting as soon as people realized he was plotting to attack Iraq, and those events were wildly downplayed in all our corporate sources.

Police, other agencies all claimed they had no idea how many were gathered, they just couldn't estimate how many Democrats and progressives were marching through the streets and standing in huge crowds to hear speeches. It was beyond them, as if they had all become nearly helpless with that task.

Even photos taken from helicopters and airplanes just baffled them, apparently.

[joshcryer]

123. Are you taking a playbook from that? Downplaying Capriles' possible million man march?

It really sounds like it.