North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

[cali]

Source: USA Today


By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY


North Dakota voters will decide Tuesday on the ultimate tax revolt: abolishing the property tax altogether. A citizen-led petition drive has put the daring, all-or-nothing proposal before the voters in a state flush with tax revenue, jobs and prosperity generated by an oil boom.
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"The oil boom makes it easier to get rid of the tax, but we started this before the oil boom took off," said Charlene Nelson, chairman of Empower The Taxpayer, which is leading the tax repeal effort. "Any state would benefit from this same thing."

North Dakota's political and business establishment has lined up against the measure. The state Chamber of Commerce, farm groups, unions and most elected officials are opposed.

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"The property tax is the foundation of local government services," said Connie Sprynczynatyk, executive director of the North Dakota League of Cities. "It's the predictable source of revenue to pay for police and fire and other local services in the community where you live."

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Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-11/north-dakota-property-tax/55533784/1

[DCKit]

1. Y'all are going to need to make some serious concessions once you need someone to wipe your ass. nt

[The Northerner]

2. I bet it'll fail overwhelmingly

[Puzzledtraveller]

25. It is expected to pass from what bits I have read.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

29. It failed by a huge margin.

Seventy-six percent voted against it.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/13/pf/north-dakota-property-tax/

What little discussion I heard about it (living in the state next door) was that it grew from a belief that property owners were shouldering a very large part of the tax burden and the initial discussion was to try to find a more equitable sharing of taxes while not eliminating the revenue needed for services. That was before the "all taxes are evil" folks got involved.

Minnesota did something similar in the '70s - The "Minnesota Miracle." Although that wasn't property taxes, it was what had been a local tax for local schools (hence, suburban schools were deep in cash and rural and inner-city schools hurting). Dems and Republicans worked together to pool the money and redistribute it on a per-pupil basis statewide. The result was incredible, in terms of student accomplishment (as a state). To paraphrase Kennedy, all boats rose.

[Maeve]

26. You win that bet--overwhelming FAIL

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_20846714/north-dakota-local-property-tax-will-stay-voters

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

3. So does this open the door for non residents to vote in elections?

... I can see lawsuits being filed because property/resident taxes no longer apply, hence any motel dweller (anyone who pays state sales tax) will, through this precedent, become an eligible voter.

[freshwest]

9. We ought to go to a national voting measure for POTUS, anyway. To stop all disenfranchisement.

But yeah, it could get sticky on the state and local level to have people voting for or against things that MIGHT not affect them or allow people from out of state to distort the 'will' of the people of that state. Reminds me of out-of-state lobbyists for national firms coming in and circumventing the will of the residents of a state. Those will be the ones who will live with the results while the crooks fly back to their home, with money in their pockets and not paying for what they got the legislatures to do for them. Long story there.

[bongbong]

4. Another JOBS bill!

Wow! Another jobs bill from those productive repigs!

[ErikJ]

5. Should be any property below $500,000 only.

What happened in the Great Depression is that millions lost their homes just because they couldnt pay their property tax. In that respect it is very regressive. TAX THE RICH!!

[freshwest]

10. Yes, that is what happened in so many places, and it should not have. It was a killing for the rich

Who had their agents go to the court houses and check the rolls of who was unable to pay property taxes on their farms and homesteads, their only asset and way to keep from starving. They lined up and got those places for less than pennies on the dollar of what the property was worth, then the former owners were turned out to leave and try to start again. A source of great pain and bitterness for those dispossessed.

[Earth_First]

6. "What's this? An 'Emergency Services" fee...?"

"What the dang nabbit is THIS...?!"

[Canuckistanian]

7. And so it begins..

Ayn Rand-style government. That is to say, no government at all.

I hope to God no one dies.

[glinda]

8. Yup. Get rid of all environment protection jobs/laws and drill the hell out of the state.

Poison the water, the air, the children and see who the hell wants to live there after they get totally done demolishing it. Then they will leave and the people there will wonder what happened. Right?

[KamaAina]

11. I hope that if Ms. Sprynczynatyk ever runs for office,

it isn't as a write-in candidate.

[iemitsu]

12. haha

if she did i (and many other bad spellers) would not be able to vote for her.

[KamaAina]

13. Lisa Murkowski had trouble along those lines.

Connie? SOL.

[Baitball Blogger]

14. What oil boom?

[jmowreader]

15. The sad thing is, these stupid m-f's will probably approve it

When every normally tax-hating group in the state is against a tax reduction (in this case, tax elimination), the tax needs to remain in place.

[NickB79]

16. The oil will only last so long. Then what?

Besides that, North Dakota's oil fields are expensive to produce. They're what's known as "tight oil reserves", and require much more work and manpower to develop. If oil prices ever fall much below $70/barrel (which is a distinct possibility if we enter another recession/depression), they'll be capping Dakota oil wells left and right because they'd be losing money on each barrel they pump.

Then, North Dakota's government is up shit creek without a tax base.

[Zoeisright]

17. Both Dakotas are already complete messes.

I visited South Dakota a few years ago. The city parks are overgrown, there are really no services, and there was litter every where. No thanks.

[bloomington-lib]

18. So when the oil dries up and the economy sinks, they'll complain that you can't raise taxes

in a time like that.

[onehandle]

19. I think all red states should eliminate all taxes and refuse federal money.

Then when they all die out in a few years from the common cold and... let's say wolves, smart people can take over their land.

[Odin2005]

20. Big Oil now owns NoDak.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

24. Looks like they own Kent Conrad

Continental Resources CEO Harold Hamm argues for preserving federal tax breaks for oil companies

By Chris Casteel | Published: June 13, 2012
WASHINGTON — North Dakota Sen. Kent Conrad couldn't thank Harold Hamm enough.


“Thank you for what you've done for our country,” Conrad, a Democrat, told the chairman and CEO of Continental Resources at a Senate hearing Tuesday. “Thank you for what you've done for our state. … Thank you for making the investment. Thank you for taking the risk.”

Hamm, whose company has helped lead a resurgence in the domestic oil industry with its production from the Bakken formation in Conrad's home state, told Senate Finance Committee members they could also thank the federal tax deduction used by independent oil and gas companies to write off expenses.

The ability to deduct intangible drilling costs, Hamm told the tax-writing panel, allowed his company to persevere in the face of repeated early failures in extracting oil from the Bakken. Should that provision in the tax code be repealed, he said, the company would drill one-third fewer wells.

“If we do away with these (tax breaks), we'll stop the march to energy independence we've begun,” said Hamm, whose company is based in Oklahoma City.

Harold Hamm is Romney's energy adviser.

[link]http://newsok.com/continental-resources-ceo-harold-hamm-argues-for-preserving-federal-tax-breaks-for-oil-companies/article/3683925[/link]

[Odin2005]

35. FUUUUUUCK!!!

[ErikJ]

21. Hartmann says excuse prop tax from unemployed or not making enough

and make it progressive on income.

[Evasporque]

22. NORTH DAKOTA - Cow Chips to be made legal tender.

In a bold move the Republican controlled state house has abandoned not only property taxes but also the US dollar. Limits were set on the moisture content....

[Maeve]

23. ND has a smaller total population than Columbus, Ohio

They also get $1.68 dollars back from the federal government than they send in.

Oil booms don't last. If you plan right, your state's economy might.

[Ter]

27. Why is this controversial?

It is probably the worst tax of them all. Why should we have to pay for land we own?

[Bacchus4.0]

28. wow, it looks like the majority of people here rent and don't pay property taxes

property taxes are eternal. You pay every single year. Retirement or unemployment does not excuse you from paying property taxes. Taxes are assessed based on the value of your land, not on your income. What happens when people can't pay property taxes? any guesses???

Renters do not pay property taxes so property owners are paying for schooling and other government services that derive from those taxes. If commissions on oil extraction paid to ND compensate for loss of government property tax revenue then that is great. It is a benefit for property owners and doesn't affect renters anyway since they don't pay property taxes.

[Maeve]

32. First--yes, I do own. Second, any owner who doesn't figure taxes when setting rent is a fool.

Indirectly, OF COURSE renters pay property tax, it is part of the cost of housing.
Third, in many states there is thing called a "homestead exemption" that cuts the taxes for property owners over 65.
Fourth, a huge part of the wealth in this country is in real estate--your home is your wealth. So yeah, that wealth is taxed. Property owners have been the major source of taxes since...taxes.

[Bacchus4.0]

33. I agree and it looks like the proposal failed but...

believe me if there was a way to fund schools and services without the property tax, I would be for it.

It sounds like one of the problems with this proposal is that it would be a ND State program whereas property taxes are typically collected by local jurisdictions (at least in my state) so they would lose that independent revenue and would be dependent on the State for disbursing funds.

[slackmaster]

34. Property owners include property tax when they calculate the cost of maintaining rental property

So renters actually do pay property tax. Property owners want to be at least reimbursed for what it costs them to pay for maintenance, finance charges, insurance, etc. including property tax. They'll charge whatever rent the market will bear, but if they can't make some profit (or at least break even) there is no incentive for them to hold onto the property.

There used to be a federal tax credit for renters for that very reason. It was taken away in about 1986.

[Hugabear]

30. This is the HUGE LIE of conservatism - claiming they favor local and state government

Conservatives like to talk a good game about how they want to put the power into the hands of local and state governments.

Except they don't. Just about every single time local and state governments try to raise tax revenue - no matter how small the increase - guess who's there to oppose them? CONSERVATIVES.

Conservatives do NOT favor local and state government. The ONLY "government" they favor is that of large corporations.

[maddezmom]

31. Update: North Dakota Voters Reject Effort to Abolish Property Tax

Published: June 13, 2012

Voters in North Dakota on Tuesday rejected a constitutional amendment to abolish the property tax, turning aside arguments by advocates of the measure who say the tax has proved inconsistent and is in conflict with the basic concept of property ownership.

The result, which showed North Dakotans overwhelmingly opposing a property tax ban in unofficial returns, ended those advocates’ immediate hopes of making North Dakota the first in the nation to take such a step.

There, a powerful coalition of groups, including business leaders and public workers, strongly opposed the idea and raised significantly more money than the other side to spread a message that ending the property tax would mean chaos in the state capital, Bismarck, an increase in other taxes and an end to most decision making by local city councils and county boards.

Though the property tax ban failed, state lawmakers said they had grasped the depth of residents’ frustrations and were all but certain to tackle concerns about unfair property tax exemptions and rising assessments and tax bills.

more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/us/north-dakota-voters-reject-effort-to-abolish-property-tax.html

[Odin2005]

36. YAY!!!