Kerry: Shooting down Russia jets 'would have been justified'

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: BBC

The US military would have been within its rights to shoot down Russian aircraft that flew close to one of its warships in the Baltic Sea, Secretary of State John Kerry says.

Two Russian jets flew within metres of the ship on Monday, US officials said.

Russia's defence ministry said the Su-24 fighter jets "turned away in observance of all safety measures" after observing the USS Donald Cook.

Mr Kerry criticised the gesture and said contact had been made with Moscow.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36050689

[MADem]

1. Kerry is correct. The Russians violated every protocol in terms of approaching a military vessel

at sea.

They weren't "observing." They were buzzing.

Putin's determined to push and shove. He'd better watch his ass. He may find himself apppointed King of the Assholes.

[tabasco]

2. A typical tinpot dictaor,

Putin has embezzled billions from his people and stashed it in secret overseas accounts.

[MADem]

3. Yep. nt

[silvershadow]

4. He is probably pissed at us for the Papers leak. Too bad. Besides, he can relax.

He is far from the only one.

[yourpaljoey]

5. pffft

this is common procedure... we do it as well

[MADem]

6. No, we don't. We don't have to play those pissant games. nt

[atreides1]

9. Really?

And those two US Navy patrol boats just happened to have entered Iranian waters, by mistake?

The thing is, the Russians are so much better at playing those pissant games then we are!!!

[MADem]

10. Apparently you've never spent much time in the Shatt al Arab?

It's a very different situation from the open sea.

[atreides1]

30. Army vet, not much time on the water!

What time wasn't spent on the ground, was spent in the air, getting from point A to point B! But, I did learn how to read a map and maintain my equipment!

[MADem]

31. It's kind of hard to "read the map" when the area where you are transiting

has been silted over and the borders keep shifting due to lack of maintenance. YOU can use satnav, but if the bozos on the other side are using Old School Rules (draw the line down "the middle"--what ever the "middle" might be, depending on silt) you can run into trouble.

What was an open channel that a ship with a fair amount of draft could transit became a muddy, silted over mess that could barely be navigated in an inflatable boat.


This article might be of interest to you: http://www.army.mil/article/72469/

[olddad56]

42. Oh, I used to go there all the time, but then they changed chefs and it was never the same.

[NickB79]

21. Did those patrol boats come within 100 ft of another vessel at high speed?

[atreides1]

27. No!

They just entered into Iranian waters, with all of that high tech navigation gear and experience in boat operations!!!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

13. Just a little Russian Hi.

[snooper2]

23. sometimes I forget we still have Pootie supporters posting here, thanks for the reminder!

[EX500rider]

24. Nonsense....feel free to try and find a article where US military planes buzzed another..

.....countries warships with multiple passes at extreme low level, missing the vessel by less then 50 ft on one pass.

This is WAY too close:

[AgerolanAmerican]

8. No he's not. That's insane

This kind of stuff happened all the time during the Cold War when everyone was on nuclear hair-trigger.

If there was no reason to shoot then, there's no reason to shoot now, except for the egomaniacs who need to have a dick measuring contest that risks countless lives.

[MADem]

11. This has not happened since the USSR folded. This is dangerous provocation.

And that is CLOSE.

If you think this is nothing, you'd better think again.

[AgerolanAmerican]

12. You don't know the first thing about it

this kind of military showboating happens all the time and everybody does it

Hell, not long ago China surfaced a sub off the coast of the US and tested a missile, that's a hell of a lot more provocative than this.

[MADem]

14. HAHAHAHA! Ya think? Really, Admiral? Tell me all about it....

[EX500rider]

25. "....and everybody does it" links please

Oh, can't find any?....wanna walk that back or move the goalposts?

[BunkieBandit]

36. Huh. Wot?

[840high]

33. +100

[jtuck004]

7. Nice. Now everyone knows you have a big penis. Go back to sleep. n/t

[Monk06]

15. Kerry is a poseur and an idiot To think this twit could have been your president

He's a less attractive and more bellicose version of Tony Blair

[Democat]

28. Right wing troll?

Or just drunk?

[MADem]

32. Do we have to choose? nt

[Monk06]

38. No sober and judging him on his dismal performance as Sec State. Syria is a shambles or hadn't you

noticed? And who is responsible? The US has used the fiction of Arab Spring to destabilize Libya, Egypt, Yemen and Syria as if Iraq being distroyed under Bush wasn't bad enough

All during Clinton and Kerry's watch at State

At best Clinton and Kerry were and are incompetent At worst they are following a neo con foreign policy which is not differenct in any significant way than Bush

Pulling the troll card is just laziness on your part

And notice I didn't alert you for the drunk insult

[Quantess]

41. "And notice I didn't alert you for the drunk insult" I was #4

On Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Kerry is a poseur and an idiot To think this twit could have been your president
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1415169

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Sounds like some right wing troll. These are personal insults posted about the sitting Democratic Secretary of State.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Apr 15, 2016, 03:21 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Inclined to leave it but I've seen enough crappy stuff today.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Kerry is more than a little bit of a hawk.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That's... like... just your opinion... man.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[FairWinds]

16. OK, so all you jingoistic war lovers . .

be really sure to send your own kids & grandkids off to
defend the honor of the empire.

Not mine.

The US NAVY is about five times larger than it needs to be, and is mostly a
giant welfare machine for the MIC.

One of the famously unusable Littoral Ship CEO's makes almost $ 20 million

As General Smedley Butler figured out, war is a racket.

Veterans For Peace

[PersonNumber503602]

17. If a US fighter did the exact same thing to a Russian or Chinese military vessle

would you say the US was provoking, and that the Chinese or Russians would have had justification to shoot it down?

[FairWinds]

37. what do you not get about . .

"send your own kids,"

and "war is a racket."

Ask yourself why the US has to occupy the entire planet - using YOUR kids.

And what rights should be accorded the torture state (i.e., us).

Don't let the militarists manipulate you.

[PersonNumber503602]

39. What part do think I do not understand?

I'm curious if you apply the same across all countries, or if it's just the US who gets that criticism?

Let's say right now a news story broke about the US buzzing a Russian warship, and a member of the Russian government made similar comments as Kerry. Would you be making the same comments about Russia, or would you be more focused on the US buzzing of a Russian warship?

[FairWinds]

40. As an internationalist, I try to treat all nation-states . .

with the fulsome contempt that is their due.

But I must admit that, since I pay taxes to it and am a vet of its military,
I have a special obligation to try to bring the US military empire under humane control.

Why should you, me, or anyone have any loyalty to the Torture State?
Let them stop torturing, prosecute the perps, and then we can have a conversation.

Pivot to Asia, the Trillion Dollar build-up, Face off with Russia . .

NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED (MUCH) OR VOTED UPON BY OUR ELECTED
REPS.

FOR THE MILITARISTS, DEMOCRACY IS PASSE.

Kerry, BTW, as a former member of VVAW really disappoints. He knows better.

[karynnj]

18. The quote in the title is not repeated in the article and differs from other accounts

The comment was far more nuanced and was directed at saying the Russian action was provocative and COULD have led to a shoot down under the rules of engagement.

It is a jump to "would be justified" from "could have led".

[daleo]

19. 10 meters? 100 meters? 1000 meters?

Two Russian jets flew within metres of the ship on Monday, US officials said.

[EX500rider]

26. This close:

[sofa king]

20. I am rather liking this new tack....

Shooting down a Russian plane would have been justified.

Blocking a Supreme Court nomination by a Republican President for an entire term would be justified.

Yet somehow the statement always sounds rather the opposite of justified, without the fallout (ahem, perhaps literal) that might result if restraint is not actually practiced.

It's like a little window back into the Republican world where the worst that can happen is always being actually attempted. A glimpse of a return to the not-so-hypothetical hell in which clear minds no longer prevail.

America may still be destroyed, but we have it rather plush these days with a sane and brilliant President who picks competent underlings. Let's hope it's not the last year of the "good old days."

[Xithras]

22. Except that the ships crew knew exactly what was going on. Kerry is wrong.

In international waters, you can't just open fire on someone because you don't like what they are doing. That would be an act of war, and the U.S. would be legally considered the aggressor. In order to open fire, the ship would have to reasonably believe that it was in danger and was about to be attacked.

On edit: Hit the button and posted early...

The aircraft had already done other flybys and the ships crew knew the aircraft were unarmed. More importantly, they knew that the Russian's weren't playing games and knew exactly what the Russian aircraft were doing. The Su-24's were equipped with electronic warfare and interception equipment. They were trying to get the ship to light them up with their targeting systems so that the Russian aircraft could get a "ping" off the ships EM emissions and dial in that equipment. Getting pinged by our targeting systems allows the Russian's to verify the accuracy of their jamming frequencies so they will work more effectively in the event of an actual war. This kind of thing has gone on since the Cold War, and unarmed jets are ALWAYS used for these kinds of flybys to prevent accusations of aggression. The aircraft were looking for data. They weren't looking for a fight, and they weren't showing off. They wanted to analyze the RF used by our targeting systems.

More importantly, US Navy crews have long been trained NOT to engage the aircraft when they do this. The Russian's are looking for data, and we don't want to give it to them. Once a ship verifies that it's an electronic intelligence pass, the targeting systems are supposed to be POWERED DOWN. This prevents the Russian's from gaining any useful data during their pass, and makes the maneuver a waste of time.

If the U.S. Navy knew the pass wasn't hostile and fired anyway, that would constitute an unjustifiable act of war.

[Xolodno]

29. Quit interjecting facts on a...

...Putin piss fest.

Don't you know they need their two minute hate?

___________

Amazes me how so many fall for the war drums.

[davidn3600]

34. Putin is a strongman leader

He's a guy where he will only respect you when you push him back after he pushes you.

[GeorgeGist]

35. Just like the Iraq War ...

John?