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MowCowWhoHow III

(2,103 posts)
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:49 AM Apr 2016

Ukraine PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk to submit resignation Tuesday

Source: Reuters

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk tendered his resignation on Sunday in a televised broadcast.

"I took the decision to resign as prime minister of Ukraine. On Tuesday, April 12, I will submit it to parliament. My
decision is based on a several reasons — the political crisis in the government has been unleashed artificially, the desire to change one person has blinded politicians and paralyzed their will to bring about real changes in the country," he said.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-arseny-yatseniuk-1.3529130

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ukraine PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk to submit resignation Tuesday (Original Post) MowCowWhoHow III Apr 2016 OP
That took longer than I thought. Poroshenko is in hot water up to his navel too. nt bemildred Apr 2016 #1
Well, there goes another $5 billion down the drain. forest444 Apr 2016 #3
We are very good at wasting money. World class. Proud of it. nt bemildred Apr 2016 #7
Thank goodness for the almighty dollar. forest444 Apr 2016 #9
Well, there's a reason they waste it, they don't want it spent on us. bemildred Apr 2016 #11
Sure. That would be "wasteful" spending. forest444 Apr 2016 #12
The Chinese ruling elites are bumping up against that problem too, what happens when you bemildred Apr 2016 #13
No, not really... EX500rider Apr 2016 #8
Well.... Xolodno Apr 2016 #15
Then there's Miami. forest444 Apr 2016 #16
Not only that... MattSh Apr 2016 #32
OMG you are still pushing "$5 Billion" Nuland Conspiracy BS after all this time? uhnope Apr 2016 #19
I was going to respond with a sarcastic remark... Xolodno Apr 2016 #21
in other words, you got nothing uhnope Apr 2016 #23
Nah...can't present obvious facts... Xolodno Apr 2016 #26
please present the "obvious facts". uhnope Apr 2016 #27
How exciting! Whom will Victoria choose next? FlatBaroque Apr 2016 #2
This was her first choice: forest444 Apr 2016 #10
oh yes pls expound on the Nuland Conspiracy Theory. uhnope Apr 2016 #20
More history: Yushenko (Orange Revolution) and his wife (who was also a neocon). newthinking Apr 2016 #28
Know your NeoCons: The Kagans - A Family Business of Perpetual War newthinking Apr 2016 #29
PNAC - How the NeoCons never left newthinking Apr 2016 #30
Neocons’ Ukraine-Syria-Iran Gambit newthinking Apr 2016 #31
We are beefing up troops and arms in that area dixiegrrrrl Apr 2016 #4
Pretty sure he doesn't want the whole country.... Xolodno Apr 2016 #17
Does not matter. Chan790 Apr 2016 #24
Incorrect. It's not a treaty. Xolodno Apr 2016 #25
Russia does not want the Ukraine yourpaljoey Apr 2016 #18
Absolutely wrong... MattSh Apr 2016 #33
Russia Readies Handover of Sentsov to Ukraine in Possible Prisoner Swap bemildred Apr 2016 #5
NATO, Russia council to meet for first time since mid-2014 bemildred Apr 2016 #6
lol runaway hero Apr 2016 #14
his best decision while in office nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #22
Of course nobody is demanding Putin step down Blue_Tires Apr 2016 #34

forest444

(5,902 posts)
3. Well, there goes another $5 billion down the drain.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:02 AM
Apr 2016

They can always ship Yatz to Argentina. I'm sure Macri can find a 50,000 peso-a-month plum job for him.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
9. Thank goodness for the almighty dollar.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:46 AM
Apr 2016

Every miscreant from the Fed to the neocons and on down can print trillions of it to cover for their mistakes, and it's still as good as gold (almost).

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. Well, there's a reason they waste it, they don't want it spent on us.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:01 AM
Apr 2016

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

If they spend it on us, give everybody the food and health care and housing and education we deserve, stop brainwashing us 24/7, we'd take all their power away in a generation or two, if not before, as we almost did 40 years ago, and the established plutocratic elite here has been in reaction to that ever since. They rely on keeping us ignorant and stupid. They always have. I've been waiting for the crash here since about 1981. But we have two oceans, Admiral Atlantic and General Pacific, and no threatening neighbors in any conventional military sense, and we have relied on that too.

It's us against them here and it always has been too. I had the good fortune to be born here in the beginning of one of those periods when our masters were feeling secure and treated us better, right after WWII. But after we almost threw them all out in the 70s, they were done with that shit and it's been grind the noses of the poor in the dirt every chance you get.

If you want to know how politics here really works, this is an excellent place to start:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016151605

forest444

(5,902 posts)
12. Sure. That would be "wasteful" spending.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:08 AM
Apr 2016

Thank you for all your insights and for the link, bemildred. I look forward to reading it.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. The Chinese ruling elites are bumping up against that problem too, what happens when you
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:32 AM
Apr 2016

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

educate your citizens, they tend to get ideas of their own, the educated citizens, once they know how, and often they are way the heck smarter than the current holders of power, who tend to get lazy and narcissistic, and rely on deceit and their money to get their way.

But you can't not do that either in the modern world, so you get these captive "technocratic elites" who do the dirty work for them. Sort of techno-samurai, hired guns.

But the fundamental issue here is they really don't like democracy or their fellow citizens, they want to exploit them, and yet they are tied to that damn Constitution, the source of their legitimacy, which is very plain in its language, and which they never thought at the time would apply to anybody but landed white males.

EX500rider

(10,848 posts)
8. No, not really...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:45 AM
Apr 2016

A lot of the money spent in the Ukraine went for these programs:

Peace Corps programs, health programs- fighting HIV/AIDs, malaria and providing for maternal and child health and projects related to weapons of mass destruction. Money was also spent on promoting peace and security, which could include military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement and law enforcement interdiction, also categories with the objectives of governing justly and democratically, investing in people, economic growth and humanitarian assistance.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
15. Well....
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:24 PM
Apr 2016

...when Saakashivili had to high tail it out of Georgia, he got a nice university job in Virginia somewhere (if I recollect). But then Poroshenko offered him to run Odessa....you can't write this stuff...

forest444

(5,902 posts)
16. Then there's Miami.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:27 PM
Apr 2016

Home to almost every kind of greasy Latin American kleptocrat and exiled right-wing murderer you can imagine.

MattSh

(3,714 posts)
32. Not only that...
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 02:24 AM
Apr 2016

but on several occasions, Saakashivili was rumored to be replacing Yatsenyuk. And recently it was rumored that Natali Jaresko, current finance minister and an American, would replace Yats. But it now looks like Poroshenko's man Grosyman, will replace Yats. And Poroshenko is the only oligarch that has not lost wealth the last two years.

Oh, and Saakashivili first job in Ukraine was as head of the International Advisory Council on Reforms. It seems he was breathing down the neck of both Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk, leading to his position in Odessa.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
19. OMG you are still pushing "$5 Billion" Nuland Conspiracy BS after all this time?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:11 PM
Apr 2016

this was pointed out to you as BS a year ago. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017242186#post23
I guess the snow is melting in Eastern Europe...

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
21. I was going to respond with a sarcastic remark...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:25 PM
Apr 2016

...and then decided, nah, not worth it. I'll save my sarcasm for those more deserving.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
23. in other words, you got nothing
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:39 PM
Apr 2016

Figures.

Too bad, I haven't heard any tinfoil-hat Nuland=Satan (& the Earth is Flat) rant for a while

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
26. Nah...can't present obvious facts...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:07 PM
Apr 2016

...with people who refuse to believe them and have an obvious chip on their shoulder. So please proceed, in defending a neo-con and obvious "stay back" from the Bush Administration.

Going to do something more productive than argue with an angry nut on the internet.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
27. please present the "obvious facts".
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:37 PM
Apr 2016

if they are facts, you have nothing to lose, right? Go for it.

Though your grasp of what is a fact is already looking weak. Exposing a conspiracy theory is not the same as defending the target of the CT, so no, I'm not necessarily defending anyone. Can you get that?

Also, your descent into personal attack ("angry nut&quot also shows you don't deal in facts but in smears. & sick unfunny jokes about Russia's human rights abuses

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
28. More history: Yushenko (Orange Revolution) and his wife (who was also a neocon).
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:35 PM
Apr 2016

(re-posted from that page)

It is obvious the neocons have wanted Ukraine for a long time. What is harder to understand is how they manage to still have their people (Nuland, wife of the author of the Iraq war and the concept of "axis of evil&quot in places where they could continue the policy.


[font size=3]To understand events in Ukraine you must understand the "first" Maidan - Orange Revolution 2004
[/font]

From:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025459029

[font size="2"]To understand how we got to where we are now: You must understand that this effort has been ongoing since at least the beginning of the new century.

The first attempt at affecting "Regime Change" was the orchestration, mostly by neo-cons, of the "Orange Revolution".

The Wests choice in 2004? A man by the name of Victor Yuschenko.


His wife? An American Citizen and Far Right Republican who had worked for the Reagan Administration, had been director at a NeoCon think tank (New Atlantic Initiative) (Victor also worked with this group) and also worked for the far right think tank the Heritage Foundation. "Katherine Chumachenko Yushenko worked in the White House Public Liaison Office where she conducted outreach to various right-wing and anti-communist exile groups in the United States.



A very good summary from a post on an older version of DU Tinoire
There are links on the original page:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2870381


Ukraine, Yushchenko, his wife (Bush employee), the US and Soros

"After hearing that the NED had pumped $65 million dollars into this election and that his wife was an American citizen, I thought I'd research this a little. I don't know this handsome US-backed Yushchenko but I'm suspecting that he is going to dismantle the Ukraine Boris-Yeltsin style and sell if off to US & European corporate interests. Germany, France and the US already have their deals in place with him over pipelines, utility companies and national resources.

Just thought I'd throw this information out there so that people can see how these things are done and how the media cooperates into presenting these changes as "spontaneous" changes that the US had nothing to do with.

So here we go. First some of the "meddling" that the media hasn't covered and then in my second post, Yushchenko's "dedicated conservative" US State Department wife.

$61 million for the Ukraine elections to back Yushchenko and $100,000 to the Tsunami victims. Just shameful.
==========================================================

Bush Adminstration Spent $65 Million to Help Opposition in Ukraine

December 10, 2004

By: Matt Kelley
Associated Press

Printer Friendly Version

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won last month's disputed runoff election.

(snip)

But officials acknowledge some of the money helped train groups and individuals opposed to the Russian-backed government candidate — people who now call themselves part of the Orange revolution.

For example, one group that got grants through U.S.-funded foundations is the Center for Political and Legal Reforms, whose Web site has a link to Yushchenko's home page under the heading "partners." Another project funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development brought a Center for Political and Legal Reforms official to Washington last year for a three-week training session on political advocacy.

(snip)
The four foundations involved included three funded by the U.S. government: The National Endowment for Democracy, which gets its money directly from Congress; the Eurasia Foundation, which gets money from the State Department, and the Renaissance Foundation, part of a network of charities funded by billionaire George Soros that gets money from the State Department. Other countries involved included Great Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

Grants from groups funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development also went to the International Center for Policy Studies, a think tank that includes Yushchenko on its supervisory board. The board also includes several current or former advisers to Kuchma, however.

IRI, Craner's Republican-backed group, used U.S. money to help Yushchenko arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney , Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage and GOP leaders in Congress in February 2003.

(snip)

the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House. (note: Very hawkish / Dan Quayle is one of their trustees / other names just as disturbing: http://www.freedomhouse.org/aboutfh/bod.htm )

PAUCI then sent U.S. government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.

Consider the Ukrainian NGO International Center for Policy Studies. It is an organization funded by the U.S. government through PAUCI. On its Web site, we discover that this NGO was founded by George Soros' Open Society Institute. And further on we can see that Viktor Yushchenko himself sits on the advisory board!

(reluctant snip)

This May, the Virginia-based private management consultancy Development Associates, Inc., was awarded $100 million by the U.S. government "for strengthening national legislatures and other deliberative bodies worldwide." According to the organization's Web site, several million dollars from this went to Ukraine in advance of the elections.

(snip)

Note from the USAID page on Ukraine: "Beyond the power sector, USAID plans to identify and assist in removing the obstacles of proper market functioning in other segments of the energy sector such as the privatization of the oil and gas transportation systems."
https://web.archive.org/web/20040826143304/http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/cbj2003/ee/ua/121-0150.html

==================


Yushenko administration lost the presidency 15 months later:


Notably, one of the things that lost him the Presidency only 15 months later was his turn toward the same brand of extreme nationalism. He elevated Stephen Bandera, (a very controversial figure who is revered by extreme factions that Europe and others warned were tied to Social Nationalist Fascist groups) to "Hero" status.

A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/feb/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
[/font]

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
29. Know your NeoCons: The Kagans - A Family Business of Perpetual War
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:38 PM
Apr 2016
A Family Business of Perpetual War
March 20, 2015

Exclusive: Victoria Nuland and Robert Kagan have a great mom-and-pop business going. From the State Department, she generates wars and – from op-ed pages – he demands Congress buy more weapons. There’s a pay-off, too, as grateful military contractors kick in money to think tanks where other Kagans work, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

Neoconservative pundit Robert Kagan and his wife, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, run a remarkable family business: she has sparked a hot war in Ukraine and helped launch Cold War II with Russia – and he steps in to demand that Congress jack up military spending so America can meet these new security threats.

This extraordinary husband-and-wife duo makes quite a one-two punch for the Military-Industrial Complex, an inside-outside team that creates the need for more military spending, applies political pressure to ensure higher appropriations, and watches as thankful weapons manufacturers lavish grants on like-minded hawkish Washington think tanks.


Prominent neocon intellectual Robert Kagan. (Photo credit: Mariusz Kubik, http://www.mariuszkubik.pl)

Not only does the broader community of neoconservatives stand to benefit but so do other members of the Kagan clan, including Robert’s brother Frederick at the American Enterprise Institute and his wife Kimberly, who runs her own shop called the Institute for the Study of War.

Continued:
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
31. Neocons’ Ukraine-Syria-Iran Gambit
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:42 PM
Apr 2016
Neocons’ Ukraine-Syria-Iran Gambit

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/20

[blockquote {margin: 50px 200px 100px 150px;}]The Ukraine crisis – in part stirred up by U.S. neocons – has damaged prospects for peace not only on Russia’s borders but in two Middle East hotspots, Syria and Iran, which may have been exactly the point
by Robert Parry


You might think that policymakers with so many bloody fiascos on their résumés as the U.S. neocons, including the catastrophic Iraq War, would admit their incompetence and return home to sell insurance or maybe work in a fast-food restaurant. Anything but directing the geopolitical decisions of the world’s leading superpower.

But Official Washington’s neocons are nothing if not relentless and resilient. They are also well-funded and well-connected. So they won’t do the honorable thing and disappear. They keep hatching new schemes and strategies to keep the world stirred up and to keep their vision of world domination – and particularly “regime change” in the Middle East – alive.Sen. John McCain appearing with Ukrainian rightists at a rally in Kiev.Sen. John McCain appearing with Ukrainian rightists at a rally in Kiev.

[blockquote {margin:130px 150px 10px 250px;}]



Now, the neocons have stoked a confrontation over Ukraine, involving two nuclear-armed states, the United States and Russia. But – even if nuclear weapons don’t come into play – the neocons have succeeded in estranging U.S. President Barack Obama from Russian President Vladimir Putin and sabotaging the pair’s crucial cooperation on Iran and Syria, which may have been the point all along.

Though the Ukraine crisis has roots going back decades, the chronology of the recent uprising — and the neocon interest in it – meshes neatly with neocon fury over Obama and Putin working together to avert a U.S. military strike against Syria last summer and then brokering an interim nuclear agreement with Iran last fall that effectively took a U.S. bombing campaign against Iran off the table.


MORE: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/20

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
4. We are beefing up troops and arms in that area
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:13 AM
Apr 2016

'cause Putin is attempting to take over Ukraine.
That poor country has been fought over for so many ages.

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
17. Pretty sure he doesn't want the whole country....
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:59 PM
Apr 2016

...just the pro-Russia part either as an autonomous area that ensures it will favor Moscow over Kiev or if the country disintegrates, then everything east of a line drawn between Kiev to Odessa. With the rest integrating with Poland, Romania, etc. It would also allow Putin to make a deal with Moldova, Russia takes Transnistria while Molodova claims some badly needed port areas just south of the country.

The west would prefer a pro-west country with the pro-Russia part learning to shut up and deal with it. Obviously that's not going to happen. The next best option is still a pro-west government in Kiev, with east so autonomous it could veto any inclusion to the EU or NATO. Its nightmare scenario, as I mentioned before, Ukraine disintegrating.

Taking the entire country would be a nightmare, the western half fought with the Germans in WW2 (thinking them as liberators...to their surprise, not so much) and when the Soviet Army returned, they weren't exactly thrilled they were back. Putin already knows what it takes to pacify an area from his experience with Chechnya. He's not going to be eager to repeat it.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
24. Does not matter.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:54 PM
Apr 2016

Russia signed a treaty with Kiev 2 decades ago where they recovered the WMDs they left in Ukraine in exchange for permanently and forever forebearing any claim to any part of Ukraine, where Crimea and Donetsk were actually mentioned by name as parts of Ukraine which Russia had no claim to at any future date under any condition whatsoever.

For treaties to mean anything, the parties of treaties have to actually abide by them under penalty of international law and condemnation by the international community. The only acceptable outcome under international law is for Russia to give back what it has stolen.

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
25. Incorrect. It's not a treaty.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:03 PM
Apr 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

The Budapest Memorandum was negotiated at political level, though it is not entirely clear whether the instrument is devoid entirely of legal provisions. It refers to assurances, but it does not impose a legal obligation of military assistance on its parties.[1][17] According to Stephen MacFarlane, a professor of international relations "It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine."[16] In the U.S. neither the George H. W. Bush administration nor the Clinton administration was prepared to give a military commitment to Ukraine, nor did they believe the U.S. Senate would ratify an international treaty, so the memorandum was adopted in more limited terms.[17] The memorandum does indicate a requirement of consultation among the parties "in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning the[...] commitments" set out in the memorandum.[18] Whether or not the memorandum sets out legal obligations, the difficulties that Ukraine has encountered since early 2014 may cast doubt on the credibility of future security guarantees offered in exchange for non-proliferation commitments.[19]


Another example it wasn't a treaty, you won't see it ratified in Congress, The Russian Parliament, the Ukrainian Parliament, etc.

It's weight is not worth the paper its printed on.

yourpaljoey

(2,166 posts)
18. Russia does not want the Ukraine
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:39 PM
Apr 2016

They took what they had to.
They could have rolled across the country
and claimed it all in one fell swoop; they did not.

MattSh

(3,714 posts)
33. Absolutely wrong...
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 02:31 AM
Apr 2016

The west broke the place; Putin will be pleased to have the west have to pay to fix it. And it's a hell of a lot more broken that it's been at any time since independence. And if the west doesn't pay to fix it, and then pay again to integrate it into the EU (estimated minimal cost $200 billion, and these estimates are usually off by a factor of 5 or so), then Ukraine will split and at a minimum the parts of Russia that were handed to Ukraine by Lenin in 1922, historically Russia territory, will be begging Russia to take it back.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
5. Russia Readies Handover of Sentsov to Ukraine in Possible Prisoner Swap
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:15 AM
Apr 2016

Russia’s Justice Ministry is preparing to hand four imprisoned Ukrainian citizens to Kiev, including film director Oleg Sentsov, in a possible prisoner swap, the Interfax news agency reported Friday, citing a statement from the ministry.

In the statement the Justice Ministry said it had asked the prison service “to prepare the necessary documents for the transfer of prisoners Alexander Kolchenko, Gennady Afanasyev, Oleg Sentsov and Yury Soloshenko.” It added that Ukrainian authorities had been informed of the move.

Sentsov, Kolchenko and Afanasyev were charged with masterminding terror attacks in Crimea after Russia annexed the region from Ukraine in 2014. Sentsov was sentenced last year to 20 years, while Kolchenko received a 10-year jail term.

Their case has been widely viewed as politically motivated and has been condemned in Ukraine and the West.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-readies-handover-of-sentsov-to-ukraine-in-possible-prisoner-swap/565160.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. NATO, Russia council to meet for first time since mid-2014
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:15 AM
Apr 2016

A forum bringing together Russia and its former Cold War adversary NATO will convene in the coming weeks for the first time since the Ukraine crisis halted its activities, both sides said on Friday.

The NATO-Russia Council was established in 2002 but was effectively suspended months after Moscow annexed the Crimean peninsula in March 2014. Both sides have now agreed to hold talks at ambassador level in Brussels in the next two weeks.

While the West and Russia remain at odds over Ukraine, the meeting is a sign of willingness to improve diplomatic relations that could help avoid any accidental military clashes in the region.

Earlier on Friday, Alexey Meshkov, a deputy Russian foreign minister, was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying the meeting could happen "in the coming weeks". NATO confirmed the meeting would take place at its headquarters in the next two weeks but did not give a precise date.

http://in.reuters.com/article/russia-nato-envoys-idINKCN0X52FU?rpc=401

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