Removal of Confederate symbols turns nasty in New Orleans

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Removal of Confederate symbols turns nasty in New Orleans

Cain Burdeau, Associated Press

Updated 2:55 pm, Friday, March 25, 2016



NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Backlash against a plan to remove prominent Confederate monuments in New Orleans has been tinged by death threats, intimidation and even what may have been the torching of a contractor's Lamborghini.

For now, at least, things have gotten so nasty the city hasn't found a contractor willing to bear the risk of tearing down the monuments. The city doesn't have its own equipment to move them and is now in talks to find a company, even discussing doing the work at night to avoid further tumult. Further complicating the issue was a court ruling Friday that effectively put the removal on hold.

Initially, it appeared the monuments would be removed quickly after the majority black City Council on Dec. 17 voted 6-1 to approve the mayor's plan to take them down. The monuments, including towering figures of Gens. Robert E. Lee and P.G.T. Beauregard, have long been viewed by many here as symbols of racism and white supremacy.

. . .

The South has seen such resistance before, during fights over school integration and efforts in the early 1990s to racially integrate Carnival parades in New Orleans.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Removal-of-Confederate-symbols-turns-nasty-in-New-7054570.php

[mountain grammy]

1. Symbols of insurrection and white supremacy gotta go..

This is not a "glorious past," it was an ill conceived rebellion costing the lives of hundreds of thousands. These flagrant monuments to racism show why the South should have been occupied for decades after the Civil War. But, as usual, southern politicians got their way just like they do today, even if their way is one of hatred and violence.
Tear this shit down!

[oneshooter]

8. Do you also advocate for the destruction

Of Confederate cemetery?

[mountain grammy]

9. Ya got me there..

No, but I can't consider a cemetery a monument. No I wouldn't advocate for that. How do you feel about it?

[oneshooter]

10. My family fought for the State of Mississippi.

According to the diaries of my Great grandfather and four of his brothers they went to Vicksburg to get the Yankees out of Mississippi. They were craftsmen, carpenter's, harness and saddle makers, and blacksmiths. None of them owned slaves. They were all more dedicated to their state than to any country. A state of affairs that was common on both sides.
There are some here that would be glad to run the dozer that dug up the graves.

[mountain grammy]

12. My husband has family in Texas too,

they were also not slave owners. They were ranchers and blacksmiths and teachers who avoided service in the Confederacy as long as they could. Two even went to Mexico to avoid serving in a war they didn't believe in. One family member wrote a fictional trilogy based on the family before, during and after the war.
Yes, I have no doubt Confederate cemeteries are filled with poor white folks who were sucked into a lost cause of preserving the wealth of slave owners, goaded on with religious fervor of glory to god. sound familiar? War's a racket, always has been.

[blackspade]

17. Your ancestors fought to preserve slavery as an economic system.

There was nothing laudable about that.
That was a choice they made, one that their Black neighbors didn't have.

[oneshooter]

30. my ansestors, according to their diaries,

fought for the State of Mississippi. There loyalty was to their state, not to slavery. I get the idea they did not concider slavery as either good or bad. It was just the way things were at that time. None of them ever owned slaves as they were very expensive.
They joined the fight only after the North invaded Mississippi.

[ShrimpPoboy]

35. This is pretty typical of confederate soldiers as I understand it

I have a 3rd great grandfather that was killed in a battle about 10 miles from where he (and all his descendants up to my father) grew up. His name showed up in only one document, a roll call taken shortly before the battle, suggesting to me that he showed up to fight only when the war showed up at his doorstep. The family was dirt poor so there's very little chance they owned slaves.

But whatever his true motivation, there's no escaping that he actually died for a horrible cause. And we shouldn't be celebrating that cause with monuments to anyone. Honor the dead, but don't glorify the worst aspects of our ancestors and history.

Just this southerner's opinion.

[christx30]

46. I agree with that.

Dueing Sherman's March to the sea, he was burning everything. Houses, fields, factories, ect. At that point, if you're in his path, he's not a Great Military Leader, but a psycho out to destroy you and your family. So someone that picks up a weapon isn't a traitor fighting for slavery, they are trying to preserve something they can use for survival. They are fighting for food on their table. They are fighting for the roofs over their children's heads. If the US army came through and just decided to burn your home today, just because of where it is, you'd try to stop them (back then it was possible, because there was almost no difference between the weapon of a US soldier and the average person).
So I can understand honoring certain Confederates. If someone dies trying to protect me and my family, I'll put up something in his honor, even if he's thought of as a "bad guy".

[LanternWaste]

52. You will of course, point us towards relevant threads supporting your allegation, yes?

"There are some here that would be glad to run the dozer that dug up the graves..."

You will of course, point us towards relevant threads supporting your allegation, yes?

[Missn-Hitch]

11. I completely agree with your assessment and

I say this knowing chances are high my family branch of the tree would have ceased if Abe would have implemented a more aggressive occupation to ensure reform. When I find my sympathies starting to surface for the south (as to confederate symbols in public spaces vs. private), I just listen to George Wallace. Hindsight. Cheers. A sip to the memory of General Sherman and another trip down the 'what could have been' trail.

[okasha]

20. The next time you take a sip to Sherman,

remember that he, Grant, Sheridan and other Union "heroes" drove the Native American genocide west of the Mississippi.

How do you feel about pulling their monuments down?

[Missn-Hitch]

21. I thought we were talking about the south (small s)

but I will play. Are you implying the fine, salt-of-the-earth southern folk and their generals were up in arms about the native american genocide? They were leading the way to prevent the catastrophe? Try again to excuse the south for doing their part in the genocide. It's funny, we leave England to flee tyranny so WE could inflict it on other people (savages - I think was the christian term of choice). I will say it again, Abe dropped the ball. Sip, sip.

[okasha]

22. None of the above.

Just pointing out that the northern "good guys" were just as evil as anything the south produced.

Now you just go on toasting William T. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" Sherman, and I'll go on calling it hypocritical.

[Missn-Hitch]

23. Except for the desire to have slaves and sit on their front porches getting the vapors.

The south (small s) - bastion of civil rights for the natives. Keep 'em coming. Haha. Sip, sip, slurp.

[okasha]

25. You are responding to your own imagination,

not to anything I said.

Perhaps you should put the bottle down now.

[Missn-Hitch]

28. Should I type in all CAPS?

You replied to my comment about the south (small s) veering to the Native American genocide. You RIGHTFULLY pointed out General Tecumseh Sherman (sip) and other NORTHERN generals as responsible for....oh what the hell. See previous. Have a great evening. Don't go getting the vapors now, ya hear.

[okasha]

31. The Vaporz: U haz em.

[Missn-Hitch]

34. Good comeback. Sip.

[LanternWaste]

53. The Irrationals. You appear to have them as well, regardless of sub-literate misspellings.

The Irrationals. You appear to have them as well, regardless of sub-literate misspellings.

[okasha]

54. Forgive us our typos as we forgive those who typo against us.

The Vaporz, U haz them too.

(Get someone to explain LOLCatese to you.)

[Hestia]

32. and they aren't called Carpetbaggers without a reason

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpetbagger

Designate 1 little park, out of the way but still get to-able, and cram every dad gum statue, plaque, etc. in there. That way, those who have to worship at these altars will be able to, but they won't be spread all over the city and/or county. Everybody should be happy with that compromise.

Cemeteries - conflicted about these since they were started by the women of the towns and privately funded. US would bury union soldiers with public funds but not the southern soldiers, so these ladies raised every dime on their own to have bones interred from all across the south*. It's why most headstones say unknown. But, I am against all war cemeteries being paid from the public coffer, period.

*American Experience "Death and the Civil War" on PBS.

[okasha]

33. Fine. Just move Andrew Jackson along with them.

[Hestia]

50. Well stated...

[DonCoquixote]

26. a cemetery is for the dead.

Monuments like this are to continue that these people and ideas had OVER THE LIVING, regardless of whether they are the descendant of gray clad soldiers or slaves.

[forest444]

2. One look at that guy tells me that while Beauregard was living it up,

his forbears were part of the huge White underclass that starved before the war, and died during it.

Nevertheless, there he is: advocating for his childhood hero. Sad.

[jpak]

3. That photo!!!!11 True Confederate Moran

yup

[awoke_in_2003]

7. The model of white supremacy...

doesn't look all that supreme.

[mwrguy]

4. Use the military

Federal troops from an Army engineer unit in another state.

Worked during desegregation.

[man of few w]

5. Sadly unsurprising

[NutmegYankee]

6. Hire the Army Corp of Engineers to take them down.

I'm sure the Army would love to remove the filth that honors their enemies.

[dembotoz]

13. in germany we have concentration camps preserved....see confederate stuff same way

least we forget

[vinny9698]

14. But they don't have monuments to Hitler and other Nazis

[dembotoz]

19. maybe in a hundred years they will

[Doctor_J]

39. That's pretty much where I'm at. I would rather we NOT pretend this never happened

Or try to wipe out all traces of it.

[excringency]

15. P.G.T. Beauregard

was the South Carolina Confederate general who fired upon Fort Sumter to start the Civil War. Neither Beauregard nor Lee had anything to do Louisiana or New Orleans so there shouldn't be any sort of heritage argument by anyone. Unless of course, being a traitor and white supremacist is the heritage one is claiming. I tell my history students (in a former Confederate state) that if they wish to display symbols of their Southern heritage, they should fly the last Confederate battle flag. That one was all white, should have fought harder crackers.

[Leontius]

18. Thanks for your little display of bigotry.

Seems it comes form all sides.

[blackspade]

29. How is that bigotry?

[ShrimpPoboy]

36. Crackers is a racial slur

[blackspade]

37. Really? Come on.

That is some false equivalent bullshit.
'Cracker' is not a remotely hurtful epithet for white people.

[ShrimpPoboy]

38. It's not equivalent

But it's still a racial slur.

[blackspade]

42. Ah, the reverse racism response.

Lame.

[ShrimpPoboy]

44. What's reverse racism?

All I'm saying is that "crackers" is a pejorative term for white people, which is why the previous poster called it out. I'm a little surprised it's being defended.

[Old Vet]

48. Call me a cracker on the street and its on.............

Only an idiot wouldn't know that......

[blackspade]

16. They should be moved to a museum.

[crim son]

24. I think that is a very good thought.

It bothers me, tearing down these monuments, because while they are absolutely a testimony to our racist past they have legitimate sentimental meaning to many good southern people. A museum would be the place for them.

[blackspade]

27. There is no legitimate sentimental meaning for these monuments.

They are testament to racist attitudes and were put up specifically to glorify an inglorious rebellion against the United States, all for the purpose of maintaining a system of chattel slavery.

'Good' Southern people know this and understand that education, that explains this (ie a museum), might start making a dent in the heritage bullshit that seems to work its way into the discussion about these monuments to folly and oppression.

White washing Southern history hurts us all and should stop.
Taking the 'monuments' down is a good start.

[potone]

40. Yes, I agree with you.

When Obama was asked about flying the Confederate flag over a statehouse, he said, "It belongs in a museum." He is right. To destroy these statues could end up having the reverse effect of what is intended: that of whitewashing, by removing from sight, the evidence of the ugly side of our history. At the same time, there is no reason to glorify the men who led the insurrection against the Republic, nor should African American citizens have to be confronted everyday as they go about their business with monuments celebrating their enslavement. A well-curated museum that puts these monuments in historical context would be educational.

As for cemeteries, I think they should be left alone. They are a reminder of the cost of war, and how we got where we are now.

[ShrimpPoboy]

45. I've had this argument with people in real life

And tried to explain that the only heritage being celebrated with confederate memorabilia is one of hate, racism, and treason. It never goes well.

It's especially frustrating here in NOLA where there's such a unique culture and history to celebrate instead.

[dflprincess]

41. Apparently Robert E. Lee himself would have wanted them gone

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/even-robert-e-lee-wanted-the-confederate-flag-gone.html

[div class = "excerpt"]
Far from being relics of Lee’s tenure, the Confederate battle flags only arrived in the college chapel decades after Lee’s death and were later replaced with the historically meaningless reproductions that hung until recently.

Lee did not want such divisive symbols following him to the grave. At his funeral in 1870, flags were notably absent from the procession. Former Confederate soldiers marching did not don their old military uniforms, and neither did the body they buried. “His
Confederate uniform would have been ‘treason’ perhaps!” Lee’s daughter wrote.

So sensitive was Lee during his final years with extinguishing the fiery passions of the Civil War that he opposed erecting monuments on the battlefields where the Southern soldiers under his command had fought against the Union. “I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavoured to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered,” he wrote.

[blackspade]

43. +1000

[Missn-Hitch]

47. Thank you for posting this. Cheers.

[Xolodno]

49. You have to wonder about Lee....

...how many times he thought back and wished to accept Scott's offer of taking control of the Union Army.

[GOLGO 13]

51. What is so hard about driving a bulldozer into it.

Give me a plane ticket, 10K, the bulldozer & I'll knock it down anytime day or night.