University Of Texas Dean To Leave State, Citing Concerns Over New Campus Carry Law
Source: Huffington Post
The dean of the University of Texas' architecture program is leaving the school, in part due to a law that soon will allow weapons on college campuses in the state.
Frederick Steiner will depart UT Austin after nearly 15 years to head the University of Pennsylvania's School of Design. He cited the new law as a significant factor in his decision, saying the policies "don't make any logical sense at all" in a university environment.
"It's not like there are a bunch of pheasants roaming around the campus, it's not a hunting environment," he said. "It doesn't seem to be appropriate to this kind of place."
Gun-friendly Texas announced the changes last year, which will allow students and faculty with permits to carry concealed handguns on campus, in classrooms and in some dormitories. The law goes into effect at universities in August and at community colleges next year.
Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ut-dean-fritz-steiner-campus-carry-laws_us_56cfc028e4b0871f60eaf23a
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)I'm a scientist and UT alum. Many colleagues and friends are trying to leave. Many alums are promising no more support for UT.
Hook 'em?
Fuck 'em.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)especially in an academic environment. To me, in an academic environment, we should rise above the insanity of this decision. If I were there, I would be planning to relocate.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)All that's left behind as the smarter flee.
What kind of future do they have?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)place of learning..this is a terrible turn.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)On another related note, one referendum we are voting for this time is allowing Texas collages and University to opt out of open/concealed carry. Stop the insanity!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)I don't have to tell you how special that place is, this is just awful to see
great educators leaving..but I don't blame them.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)Austin is a unique, beautiful and wonderful city, except the traffic!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Congratulations and enjoy graduation time, it won't be too much longer.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)They don't want it and with good reason.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)And very few students would be carrying, you have to be 21 to acquire a CHL.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)And this law is geared more towards teachers and staff, not towards students, as most are under 21 years of age.
This hasn't been a problem at the other colleges that allow for CC, so why would it be a problem here?
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)scscholar
(2,902 posts)they always constantly pull them out to show them off or clean them. Why does their kind feel the constant need to clean constantly and constantly clean?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)If you pull your concealed carry weapon to show it off, that's brandishing and that's illegal, as far as cleaning your weapon, of course you clean it after shooting it, otherwise it could jam up.
You're just making shit up now.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Not asking to be controversial, but are we in that serious a condition in the US to have to carry guns for protection? I guess I really can see that in some situations, but in an academic setting?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)And armed teacher/staff member may, one day, prevent a school shooting.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)will there be shootings. I guess time will tell. That said, I can see situations wherein I would carry protection.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Unless you're specifically trained you're likely to freeze when shooting starts. That's what happened when Gabrielle Giffords was shot, it was a folding chair, not a gun that stopped that rampage.
In the wake of the unthinkable massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, pro-gun ideologues are once again calling for ordinary citizens to arm themselves as a solution to mass shootings. If only the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School had possessed a M-4 assault rifle she could've stopped the killer, they say. This latest twist on a long-running argument isn't just absurd on its face; there is no evidence to support it. As I reported recently in our in-depth investigation, not one of 62 mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years has been stopped this way. More broadly, attempts by armed civilians to intervene in shooting rampages are rareand are successful even more rarely. (Two people who tried it in recent years were gravely wounded or killed.) And law enforcement overwhelmingly hates the idea of armed citizens getting involved.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/armed-civilians-do-not-stop-mass-shootings
Then why are there numerous stories of average citizens successfully defend themselves with firearms?
Maybe that's what you would do, but don't extrapolate what you may do to the rest of us.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Zman is just an example of defensive gun use.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)The Redheaded Guy
(90 posts)and keep us out of this crap.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)against firearm owners. He likes to tell lies about DU firearm owners and when asked to produce links to claims he wildly makes, he rarely produces them.
Nobody is involving you in these discussions except you, it's your choice to respond or not, so don't blame others for your involvement in this "crap".
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)I'm fortunate enough to live somewhere where we're not subject to the tyranny of the second amendment. We pay no attention to pathetic individuals too scared to walk out their front door without being armed to the teeth.
We don't have mass shootings, we have common sense.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)I'm not aware of any student / teacher shootings since the laws changed here, but i do know there have not been any mass shootings.
I have no idea the number of students or teachers that are actually concealed carrying though.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)many just might not opt for it and the sensationalism of it all is over.
a la izquierda
(11,797 posts)From their own shadows.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)What's the difference?
2naSalit
(86,776 posts)and could set up the universities for endless lawsuits for providing the hostility by allowing guns to intimidate the rest of the people on campus. "Hostile environment" is a legal term used in workplace discriminatory acts... it should be expanded in its use for education and guns on campus.
College is hard and all attention should be given to curriculum not whether the kid sitting next to you is emotionally and mentally stable and/or likely to start shooting.... seriously. When I was in college, I was glad there were no firearms allowed given the temperament of many of my fellow students and their not completely matured sense of reasoning.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)on the edge.
2naSalit
(86,776 posts)had to have a bulletproof office on the top floor of his building... I can imagine how a bad day might turn out quite differently if guns were allowed on campus at that time.
Vinca
(50,303 posts)We're all sitting ducks in this gun-crazy country, but it doesn't hurt to better your odds.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)NBachers
(17,136 posts)The ads nearly write themselves. A Rockwell scene of a proud young man with his beaming parents, while his younger siblings look on with wonder and admiration. Wrapping paper spread open as a gleaming Automatic sits in it's prize case:
"Gee Whiz, I've got the best mom 'n' dad in the whole world!"
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)graduated from there in 2013 before this stupid law. I loved Austin but would not be wanting him to attend that school now.
Lodestar
(2,388 posts)How about guns allowed inside the capital buildings while the legislature is in session.
branford
(4,462 posts)in compliance with state and local statutes.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Did you even read read the "update" on you own link?
You can indeed carry firearms at the NRA headquarters, so long as you otherwise comply with Virginia and federal law. Concealed carry is permitted by both employees and visitors. The headquarters even has a shooting range. Carrying is also permitted at NRA conventions and events, again as long as it complies with relevant law.
Your belief is a myth and a commonly propagated fallacy. Allegations of racism don't alter reality.
You are free to contact the NRA directly and inquire if you so desire.
There are many reasons to criticize the NRA, but they rarely involve hypocrisy when it comes to the ownership and carrying of firearms.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/nraban.asp
http://buzzpo.com/shannon-watts-caught-red-handed-lying-nra/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/21/1172739/-I-Called-the-NRA-Today-Oh-Boy
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)then why hasn't it happened at the other colleges that have allowed concealed carry for years?
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)much worse after this law takes effect.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)And why hasn't it gotten much worse at the colleges that allow for CC?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)The streets will run red with blood...
Any moment...
*whistles and taps feet*
Any moment...
Nitram
(22,879 posts)I hope others follow his lead.
But that just means that the fickle stance on education and what can be taught in Texas is slipping further into the abyss of ignorance.
Turbineguy
(37,365 posts)The problem with education is that there are too many educators and way too many students. Many of those students (especially the dark-skinned ones) would serve a much more useful purpose to society (a Republican Paradise, that is) as inmates in for-profit prisons.
Nitram
(22,879 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)concealed carry?
Nitram
(22,879 posts)Which colleges in which states? Are there many of them?
hack89
(39,171 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)GREY = Concealed guns allowed by law, but schools limit locations/who carries
GREEN = Concealed guns on campus prohibited by law
YELLOW = Schools decide weapons policy
ORANGE = Concealed guns allowed only in locked cars in parking lots
Nitram
(22,879 posts)I wonder if there are statistics on how many students actually carry on campuses where it is allowed.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry license, this is mainly geared towards teachers and staff.
Nitram
(22,879 posts)And you might lose friends if they know you carry. Of course you'll gain some friends among the gun humping community.
snort
(2,334 posts)Nitram
(22,879 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)TX is grey on there.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)it's the only one I could find, not sure if TX public colleges can limit where CHL holders can limit the carrying of weapons.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)This shooting happened at a college that allows for concealed carry, no less by a police firearms class:
http://www.good4utah.com/news/local-utah-state-news-/two-students-injured-in-accidental-shooting-at-uvu
So do you think the proliferation of guns on campuses, which are already some of the safest places NOT to get shot, is going to make people safer or less safe?
Feel free to publish ammosexual hero creme-de-la-dum Wayne LaPierre's talking points and pretend they came from the CDC....again.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I see you just couldn't resist the sexual reference, what is it with the controller and sexual references?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Is there any other context where it's normal to constantly talk about the genitals of the opposition?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)not that I know of.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)advisability of this nonsense?
Five? Ten? Fifty?
Or do we go by numbers of dead and wounded? At least three or it doesn't count at all?
I know! How about a point system?
Dead student: five points
Critically wounded and not expected to recover: four points
Wounded but will recover some function: three points
Wounded but will recover fully: two points
Not wounded but emotionally traumatized: one point, but only if their noses don't run while they cry
Professor, Administration, Staff? No points, of course, since it was probably their fault.
Anything under fifty total points is hardly worth mentioning and doesn't count toward 'incidents'.
Sound about right?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)has CC been a problem at the other colleges that allow it?
If not, then why all the hand wringing?
Nitram
(22,879 posts)...they'v been drinking or getting high. I just don't see the mixing with guns. But, hey, we're Americans. We don't use commons sense until too many have died. If then. I'd rather not be in a position to say "I told you so" when it turns out I was right." A tragedy waiting to happen.
gun humpers would not care, any more than they care now about constant senseless slaughter - their fear and paranoia TRUMPS ALL
yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)And they will lose top notch prospects who have other options as well. The worst part about it when something like this gets started, it is hard to stop. Academic types hate uncertainty just like business types do and they will go where the climate is more hospitable to their values. Top notch people leave because they have other options. So you lose some of your best people.
Nitram
(22,879 posts)...is confined to academics and business men. Texas cannot afford the brain drain that their new law could provoke. The fact that the law passed in the first place is evidence that there is insufficient rational thinking going on in that state.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Nitram
(22,879 posts)In my experience. I was. My friends were. We did some really dumb stuff. Had a good time, too.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I was piloting an attack bird in Vietnam, most of the soldiers/Marines in Vietnam hadn't even reached their 21st birthday, yet we were all pretty mature, so I would have to respectfully disagree that most 21 year olds aren't mature.
yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)At least for men. So I think the answer to that is yes at least if you believe car accident risk numbers.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)It's insanity!
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Recruiting for College teaching positions is a VERY cutthroat process, and is extremely competitive, incestuous and political. There's a reason there's not a lot of turnover at these positions.
It's very hard to get a job at a major university, and once you have it, people tend to hold onto it forever, often working well into the usual retirement age.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Who wants intellectuals and academics in Texas? You know, they may bring facts and knowledge into the picture.
Paladin
(28,272 posts)that Texas is the only state that allows campus carry of firearms? Or that Texas is anywhere close to the first state to allow campus carry? I know it's a great fun to savage the whole fucking state of Texas and its inhabitants (educated liberal Texans like myself included), but try practicing what you preach---educate yourself out of utter ignorance and rank prejudice before you spew something that makes you look so ill-informed.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I know you and I rarely agree on firearm issues, but on this I totally agree with you.
The bigots in this thread slamming Texans are clueless about Texas.
47of74
(18,470 posts)Gotta do what ya gotta do.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)What a baby...
rladdi
(581 posts)educated people, they are looking for slaves, those who only follow and not use their brain power. The GOP wins on slave votes and LIES.
Judi Lynn
(160,621 posts)hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)I'm sorry that UT students will be denied the education that they should be receiving from good teachers like Professor Steiner, but I totally support his desire to leave. It's ludicrous that guns should have any place in a learning environment.
The very idea that teachers and professors should have to be concerned about what they teach (as illustrated in an article released earlier this week), is sheer madness. We, as a society, cannot be expected to tip toe through life to avoid igniting some crazy person's ire and having that person react with a gun. The solution is to make it IMPOSSIBLE for that crazy person to ever get a gun (or any weapon) in the first place.
Ugh! I'm a lifelong Texan and I don't recognize my state any more. Please, please, please know that not all Texans are idiots!
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)but anti-gun folks have written off Texas-
Texas is on its way to pariah status. It's Mexico with shittier food and meaner people.
hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)But you've got to realize that it's heartbreaking for some of us here. I'm a sixth generation Texan. The idiots that run the state these days are NOT real Texans. Most of them moved here in the early 80's after they had fucked up the places they lived before.
I appreciate your sentiment. Hope you have a good weekend!
SpankMe
(2,966 posts)Whenever a red state implements some crazy law like this, I always hope it will result in people, companies, everything, leaving the state. The brain-drain and economic-drain would turn them into little third-world fiefdoms and they'd get what they deserve.
When I was in college (Univ of AZ, early 80's) I witnessed on several occasions some pretty uncomfortable confrontations between students and profs that escalated to near physical confrontation. In each of these four events, it was the student who was the initiator of the confrontation.
The students were usually upset about a grade they got, or a critique on a paper that they thought wasn't fair. The profs were doing their jobs and were calm and intellectual about it. But, the students (all white males, by the way) were indignant and agitated to an extent that I figured they had some emotional or mental issues lying beneath.
If these guys had concealed guns on them during these emotional explosions, I could see them coming out of their holsters and being brandished, if not used. (In one of the four times I witnessed a confrontation, the student threw a book toward the front of the room.)
If a kid really wants to bring a gun to class and do a prof in, nothing's going to stop him. But, disallowing concealed carry in college classrooms could help in keeping a weapon out of an emergent confrontation.
raccoon
(31,119 posts)jalan48
(13,883 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Some delicate flowers are more delicate than other delicate flowers, apparently.
trillion
(1,859 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)so this is more of a political statement than an actual reason.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)But this one he accepted.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)I don't know what goes in his head, but neither do you. He accepted the same level position, so presumably pay and benefits are comparable.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)statement, but let me ask you this, and I thank you for being civil, something that others haven't been, if CC on this TX campus is such a problem, why hasn't it been a problem on the other colleges that have allowed for CC for many, many years?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)From what he says, people were making him offers over the years which he declined. If he was looking, why did he decline previous offers?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Maybe this offer was too good to turn down? But you didn't answer my question, so I'll respectfully ask again, if CC is such a problem on this TX campus, then why hasn't it been a problem at the nations other colleges that have allowed for CC for many, many years?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Thus people who object to guns on campus have no choice if they work for state universities.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)so why would TX public colleges be any different?
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,364 posts)Normal folks would have to do job searches, interviews, that sort of stuff. This guy snaps his fingers and he can walk out on a job that he no longer agrees with.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)So, yes, it's very different from "normal folks" that have to go out look for jobs.
pfitz59
(10,390 posts)[link:http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/an-ex-marine-goes-on-a-killing-spree-at-the-university-of-texas|
1966
An ex-Marine goes on a killing spree at the University of Texas
"Charles Whitman takes a stockpile of guns and ammunition to the observatory platform atop a 300-foot tower at the University of Texas and proceeds to shoot 46 people, killing 14 people and wounding 31. A fifteenth died in 2001 because of his injuries. Whitman, who had killed both his wife and mother the night before, was eventually shot to death after courageous Austin police officers, including Ramiro Martinez, charged up the stairs of the tower to subdue the attacker."
Idiots!