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question everything

(47,524 posts)
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:03 PM Jan 2016

Oil Plunge Sparks Bankruptcy Concerns

Source: WSJ

Crude-oil prices plunged more than 5% on Monday to trade near $30 a barrel, making the specter of bankruptcy ever more likely for a significant chunk of the U.S. oil industry.

Three major investment banks— Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Citigroup Inc. —now expect the price of oil to crash through the $30 threshold and into $20 territory in short order as a result of China’s slowdown, the U.S. dollar’s appreciation and the fact that drillers from Houston to Riyadh won’t quit pumping despite the oil glut.

As many as a third of American oil-and-gas producers could tip toward bankruptcy and restructuring by mid-2017, according to Wolfe Research. Survival, for some, would be possible if oil rebounded to at least $50, according to analysts. More than 30 small companies that collectively owe in excess of $13 billion have already filed for bankruptcy protection so far during this downturn, according to law firm Haynes & Boone.

(snip)

With little likelihood of an oil price rebound in the coming months, the companies that tap shale wells from Texas to North Dakota are splintering into the haves and have-nots.



Read more: http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-plunge-sparks-bankruptcy-concerns-1452560335

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Oil Plunge Sparks Bankruptcy Concerns (Original Post) question everything Jan 2016 OP
If this puts the kabosh on Saudi exportation of Islamic radicalism, closeupready Jan 2016 #1
The Saudi's are in on it. Renew Deal Jan 2016 #4
Do you remember the Hunt brothers? closeupready Jan 2016 #5
That'a what friends are for EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #6
More so to hurt Iran, and also to kill the Natural Gas market Yavin4 Jan 2016 #15
they aren't fine... Javaman Jan 2016 #19
There's no chance of that. They have $600 billion in foreign reserves CJCRANE Jan 2016 #7
Well, true, but consider that Kelvin Mace Jan 2016 #13
They don't want to burn those reserves...it is expensive maintaining their USD peg. Lucky Luciano Jan 2016 #14
This is an Oil war being waged by the Saudis, actually. herding cats Jan 2016 #18
While we in the midwest are enjoying the lows prices now, this will have a major ripple effect Purveyor Jan 2016 #2
yes, boom bust cycles are the name of the game for oil producing states elmac Jan 2016 #9
Oh, the poor oil company babies will need more subsidies now. Helen Borg Jan 2016 #3
Those oil companies employ tens of thousands of employees TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #8
Yep, I would rather pay higher gas prices elmac Jan 2016 #12
Solar employs more people than oil or coal. kristopher Jan 2016 #16
Time to turn the little oil companies Plucketeer Jan 2016 #10
They have known about this for at least 10 years rosesaylavee Jan 2016 #11
I don't think you know what 'peak oil' is... kristopher Jan 2016 #17
So then is this glut of oil speeding us up to Peak Oil? apnu Jan 2016 #20
What part of "obsolete commodity" doesn't make sense to you? nt kristopher Jan 2016 #21
There is far too Bernin Jan 2016 #22
Yes. That is right. rosesaylavee Jan 2016 #23
Obsolete implies something better is replacing it. What would that be? NickB79 Jan 2016 #24
 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
1. If this puts the kabosh on Saudi exportation of Islamic radicalism,
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:05 PM
Jan 2016

then that's one of the silver linings to this 'bad' news.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
5. Do you remember the Hunt brothers?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:09 PM
Jan 2016

They tried something similar, and that didn't work out so well. No, it's not a perfect analogy, but there are parallels.

EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
6. That'a what friends are for
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jan 2016

That explains why were helping them commit war crimes in Yemen... oh wait no, the opposite.

Yavin4

(35,445 posts)
15. More so to hurt Iran, and also to kill the Natural Gas market
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jan 2016

They can go down to $10 a barrel and be fine. All in all, this is good for the short term, but bad long term as the cost incentive for seeking alternative energy erodes.

Javaman

(62,533 posts)
19. they aren't fine...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 04:53 PM
Jan 2016

they posted the first ever deficit this year and have "only" a 5 year store of cash left.

they can carry this on for a while, but not forever.

I think they are employing a little disaster capitalism across the board.

once they knock out a few players, the salad days are over.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
7. There's no chance of that. They have $600 billion in foreign reserves
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jan 2016

and they're going to start selling off their assets to get an even bigger war chest to ride this out.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
13. Well, true, but consider that
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:51 PM
Jan 2016

if things go south in a hurry, those foreign reserves could wind up losing value fast as markets crash.

Lucky Luciano

(11,258 posts)
14. They don't want to burn those reserves...it is expensive maintaining their USD peg.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:54 PM
Jan 2016

There is talk of them devaluing their currency if things get worse.

China is ripping through their reserves too.

herding cats

(19,567 posts)
18. This is an Oil war being waged by the Saudis, actually.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 04:28 PM
Jan 2016

It's fueled in part due to hostilities over Iran and the recent changes in relations with them. The goal is to strike such a serious blow to frackers (and all other expensive forms of oil extraction) in the US, and elsewhere, that they crumble under the pressure from the Saudis.

The end result is it's making it unprofitable for fracking in the US to be a viable option, and it's also now making it unprofitable for Canada's shale industry. Below $35 a barrel it's beginning to impact North Sea oil exploration as well.

Saudis have raised taxes and implemented spending cuts to mitigate the losses on their end, but many poorer OPEC countries are on the brink of economic collapse.

There's a lot of big money players involved in all of this. For right now the US consumer is coming out ahead with lower fuel prices and possibly less destruction of our environment in the short haul, but this won't last forever and when this war of wills is over we'll be back to being useful pawns of the industry again.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
2. While we in the midwest are enjoying the lows prices now, this will have a major ripple effect
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:05 PM
Jan 2016

across our economy in due time.

Watched this show before.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
9. yes, boom bust cycles are the name of the game for oil producing states
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:15 PM
Jan 2016

with TX, OK having a rich history of ups and downs. The northern states are kind of newcomers to the boom & bust game, lets hope they socked away some $$$ while the prices were up.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
8. Those oil companies employ tens of thousands of employees
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:11 PM
Jan 2016

I don't give a crap about the big corporations and oil execs, but a lot of people will be hurting.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
12. Yep, I would rather pay higher gas prices
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:28 PM
Jan 2016

then seeing good paying job cuts. Though if it were up to me all oil fields would be nationalized with the US getting a big chunk of the profits & letting the drillers get enough to make it profitable. It's still cost-effective down to prices of $10 per barrel in the US but its better to shut down operations at a certain point, save it for future demand.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
16. Solar employs more people than oil or coal.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jan 2016

And there is a huge amount of room to expand employment in both solar and wind.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
10. Time to turn the little oil companies
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:19 PM
Jan 2016

into collectives. Give THEM the subsidies (with trigger points) and stop the subsidies to the behemoth oil pumpers.

rosesaylavee

(12,126 posts)
11. They have known about this for at least 10 years
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 03:21 PM
Jan 2016

This is peak oil. We need to be working out how we are going to transition from Oil to other energies like 5 years ago.

They marched right up to the edge of the cliff and no doubt are expecting bail outs.

And no doubt they expect taxpayers to pay to close down their refineries one by one too.

Ridiculous.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
17. I don't think you know what 'peak oil' is...
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 04:01 PM
Jan 2016

..because this is exactly the opposite.

Peak oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil
Wikipedia
Peak oil, an event based on M. King Hubbert's theory, is the point in time when the maximum rate of extraction of petroleum is reached, after which it is expected to enter terminal decline. Peak oil theory is based on the observed rise, peak, fall, and depletion of aggregate production rate in oil fields over time.


Note the use of "depletion" as part of the concept. We have a glut in a commodity that is becoming obsolete.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
20. So then is this glut of oil speeding us up to Peak Oil?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jan 2016

If so, seems dangerously short sighted for oil producers to do so. Once there's no oil left in the sand, the whole world won't give a hoot about the Middle East and the place will become a wasteland.

 

Bernin

(311 posts)
22. There is far too
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jan 2016

much oil in the world.
Russia has much more than SA.
You need not worry about "peak oil"

rosesaylavee

(12,126 posts)
23. Yes. That is right.
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 07:27 PM
Jan 2016

Peak oil has been reached, we are at the end of the Oil era. The oil companies have known this would happen. We are now extracting oil from very expensive locations - tarsands, ocean rigs, etc. And it costs more to extract this way and there is less profit in it.

We are at the end, and who has the plan to move forward? These companies are NOT in denial. They are very smart capitalists who will milk the system until they fail and they will go bankrupt with us holding the bag.

I wasn't clear. I agree.

NickB79

(19,258 posts)
24. Obsolete implies something better is replacing it. What would that be?
Tue Jan 12, 2016, 08:00 PM
Jan 2016

The percentage of vehicles utilizing any non-petroleum-based fuels such as electric or hydrogen is extremely small at this point, far too small to account for the collapse of oil prices today.

Similarly, oil is still the feedstock for almost all plastics production around the world, with no economical plastics in the pipeline for decades to come.

Also, if you care, there is a flip side to Peak Oil that many have not considered up to this point: http://www.theenergycollective.com/gail-tverberg/2277283/low-oil-prices-why-worry

Most people believe that low oil prices are good for the United States, since the discretionary income of consumers will rise. There is the added benefit that Peak Oil must be far off in the distance, since “Peak Oilers” talked about high oil prices. Thus, low oil prices are viewed as an all around benefit.

In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. The Peak Oil story we have been told is wrong. The collapse in oil production comes from oil prices that are too low, not too high. If oil prices or prices of other commodities are too low, production will slow and eventually stop. Growth in the world economy will slow, lowering inflation rates as well as economic growth rates. We encountered this kind of the problem in the 1930s. We seem to be headed in the same direction today. Figure 1, used by Janet Yellen in her September 24 speech, shows a slowing inflation rate for Personal Consumption Expenditures (PCE), thanks to lower energy prices, lower relative import prices, and general “slack” in the economy.


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