Report: U.S. Spying On Israel Swept Up Members Of Congress
Source: Politico
By NOLAN D. MCCASKILL 12/29/15 06:00 PM EST Updated 12/29/15 06:12 PM EST
U.S. spying programs scooped up communications between members of Congress and Israeli leaders, giving the White House insight into Israels lobbying of U.S. lawmakers against the Iran nuclear deal, current and former U.S. officials told The Wall Street Journal.
The article, published Tuesday afternoon, reports that the U.S. continued to spy on select leaders of allied nations despite President Barack Obamas pledge to curb such surveillance two years ago, and that it was a top priority to maintain spying on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government.
As part of that continued surveillance, the National Security Agency also swept up communication showing Israeli officials trying to turn lawmakers against the international deal that curbed Irans nuclear capabilities, the article said.
One senior U.S. official described the discovery of the swept-up communication as an Oh s moment and feared that the executive branch would be accused of spying on Congress.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/spying-israel-congress-netanyahu-217207
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)hijack our political process.
razorman
(1,644 posts)the Middle East. We have no true friends there. However, in this instance, what I think will stand out is the fact that, two years ago, President Obama promised to stop such activities toward our allies. He has now been caught breaking his word. This can have far-reaching consequences, regardless of the justification. Since it was well known that Israel was lobbying Congress over the Iran deal, I believe that the focus of this story will be the continuing surveillance. It will reopen old wounds, such as the Snowden incident.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Big difference between NATO allies, Japan, Korea etc and Israel.
razorman
(1,644 posts)Hell, we would be stupid not to gather intelligence on everyone we can. We'd better be spying on Canada, for that matter. I just don't trust them. They smile too much.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)brush
(53,833 posts)tblue37
(65,483 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)
Name removed Message auto-removed
alfredo
(60,075 posts)Curbing doesn't mean ending it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Even the former 'prince of spies' from France expressed surprise that anyone would be surprised at this kind of thing--it's what nations DO. To try to pretend otherwise is living in a Pollyanna-ish bubble.
http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarcini-dcri-hollande-ayrault-merkel-usa-obama
France spies on the US just as the US spies on France, the former head of Frances counter-espionage and counter-terrorism agency said Friday, commenting on reports that the US National Security Agency (NSA) recorded millions of French telephone calls.
Bernard Squarcini, head of the Direction Centrale du Renseignement Intérieur (DCRI) intelligence service until last year, told French daily Le Figaro he was astonished when Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said he was "deeply shocked" by the claims.
I am amazed by such disconcerting naiveté, he said in the interview. Youd almost think our politicians dont bother to read the reports they get from the intelligence services.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)our elected officials engaged in subversion of our foreign policy would have known that, but given what we're sending to Congress these days I certainly wouldn't bet on it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Sen. Bernie Sanders would absolutely end sweeping surveillance powers at the National Security Agency, he said during the first Democratic presidential debate on Tuesday.
Without going into detail about his intentions for the agency, the Vermont Independent, who identifies as a democratic socialist, trumpeted his status as one of the few congressional opponents of the Patriot Act in the wake of the 9/11.
I'd shut down what exists right now is that virtually every telephone call in this country ends up in a file at the NSA, Sanders said. That is unacceptable to me.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/256865-sanders-would-absolutely-end-nsa-spying
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Let the squealing begin. Ain't going to be pretty. Do remember LBJ doing this to Nixon over Vietnam.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Reminder that the Israeli government doesn't sit at the big kids table of US allies when the chips are down in foreign policy--only at meetings of pandering congresscritters.
Because they've proven we can't trust them.
alfredo
(60,075 posts)That means that even those we might think as friends will throw us under the bus if it served their interests.
Yallow
(1,926 posts)We have no friends.
We the tax payers are just supposed to pay the bill.
alfredo
(60,075 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)The one that Israel is not an ally like Britain or France.
But nobody is biting ....LOL
Keep trying......
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Countries that do:
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Philippines, Thailand, Japan, South Korea,
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/collectivedefense/
That doesn't include the Rio Treaty, which is pretty much defunct, but covers pretty much the entire western hemisphere.
Whose name isn't on that list?
Israel.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Cmon , you can do better than that ...
Keep trying ...
LOL
Obama :
As Bibi mentioned, this is our 10th meeting. Weve spent more time together, working together, than I have with any leader. And this speaks to the closeness of our two nations, the interests and the values that we share, and the depth and breadth of the ties between our two peoples.
As leaders, our most solemn responsibility is the security of our people -- thats job number one. My job as President of the United States, first and foremost, is to keep the American people safe. Bibi, as Prime Minister, your first task is to keep the people of Israel safe. And Israels security needs are truly unique, as Ive seen myself. In past trips I visited villages near the Blue Line. Ive walked through Israeli homes devastated by Hezbollah rockets. Ive stood in Sderot, and met with children who simply want to grow up free from fear. And flying in today, I saw again how Israels security can be measured in mere miles and minutes.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/20/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-netanyahu-israel-joint-press-
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)drawn into it.
On the other hand, an attack on France, or Poland, is considered the same as an attack on the United States.
Hezbollah can attack Israel without worrying about a response from the USA. Russia dares not lay a finger on Estonia because they're a NATO ally.
See the difference?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Ha ha ha
No bites yet....
But keep trying....
alfredo
(60,075 posts)They believe Israel is important to fulfill the prophecy. Of course that will mean another holocaust, but Israel knows that prophecy will never happen. They'd be stupid not to play along if it means they get the needed support of the US.
We'd do the same.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)At the various talks on Iran, including Kerry? Did you have a problem on their spying on Kerry and his team when Kerry was in Israel?
napi21
(45,806 posts)MAYBE they shouldn't be doing those things! I think it's quite funny that this is being made public. We knew some of them had been colluding with Netanyahu just be his invitation to speak to congress, but I'm sure they didn't really want their collusion made public.
Suffer you creeps. I'll continue to make fun of you the whole time!
salib
(2,116 posts)You are doing something wrong."
Aren't we better than that by now.
alfredo
(60,075 posts)napi21
(45,806 posts)doing stuff behind closed doors THAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE! Put it in the category of "probable cause" if you like that better.
comradebillyboy
(10,174 posts)to sabotage US foreign policy then I think surveillance is not only warranted but necessary for national security.
You got it.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)Whatever the excuse, like "but they were talkin to furriners"
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)powers into the USA. Here it did not pass to the WH information identifying to whom the foreign power was sending communication.
If one gets a communication from a foreign government, assume the NSA knows about it.
salib
(2,116 posts)Where in the constitution is that power granted?
Also, why is a warrant specific to each infringement not required?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The spying was on foreign officials. If a congress person chooses to communicate with that person in some unofficial capacity, it's not executive branch's fault. If as president you think certain foreigners need spied on, I don't see how some U.S. legislator going out of his/her way to communicate with that person changes that.
salib
(2,116 posts)You use the phrases:
- "in some unofficial capacity"
- "going out of his way"
If the NSA is spying on me and they use the excuse that it was in some unofficial capacity and I was going out of my way to communicate with people who are not US citizens, I would call BS on that.
These are the excuses of dictators and tyrants.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Looking at it as a separation of powers issue, if you are going to give spying powers to the executive branch, deciding to communicate with foreign officials looking to undermine U.S. diplomatic efforts is pretty likely to get your communications with those officials snatched up with everything else. If you think someone needs spied on, would you shut down surveillance on that person because John Boehner decided to respond to their email or give them a call? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
I understand being against spying in general principle, but U.S. and Israeli agencies have been spying on each other for a long time. This isn't spying on congress members communications, it's spying on a foreign government who is also spying on the U.S.
salib
(2,116 posts)The constitution.
You say "I understand being against spying in general principle, but U.S. and Israeli agencies have been spying on each other for a long time. This isn't spying on congress members communications, it's spying on a foreign government who is also spying on the U.S. "
That sounds like the kids in the back of the car saying " but he did it first".
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Because that's what we're talking about here.
edit: For clarification, how would you handle phone tapping of a non-American in a foreign country? Eliminate the practice alltogether? Play it by the book like a criminal investigation in the U.S? Secret courts?
6chars
(3,967 posts)US citizens talking to foreign officials. And possibly US citizens talking to US citizens from pro-Israel groups in the US. And not just citizens but congressional representatives. I get that they were talking about something the President was against, and most of DU was against. But to me it is really troubling. I can't really imagine circumstances under which the President should be able to spy on large numbers of representatives. Not that this would happen under Obama, but this is something that sets up and is common in dictatorships. It allows the President to circumvent congressional debate. If there was literally discussion of a revolution, or of crimes against the US, or exchanging classified information, then yes, absolutely appropriate. If not, then a dangerous precedent. In this case, what was being discussed was legitimate political action even if the President thought that action was undesirable.
I am really surprised - shocked actually - that most at DU are so cool with this just because it is for the Democratic side this time.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The foreign government's outgoing communications were intercepted by the NSA. To the extent those intercepts were forwarded to the President, the names of every recipient were redacted.
This is not a case of bugging AIPAC's offices.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I'm talking about the article listed in the original topic starter of this thread. If that's what you are also talking about, then you seem to be inferring a lot that I'm not seeing there. If you're using another source, I wouldn't mind seeing it (or starting a new thread about it) so we can all be on the same page.
6chars
(3,967 posts)There is great potential for abuse in that. Do you remember your President Nixon?
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The NSA was spying on foreign officials outside of the U.S.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I love it when foreigners (gee I wonder from which country this one hails) try to lecture us about our own history.
This story is about spying on a foreign government, not Congress.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)friend of ours on the anti-war left. Far from it, Israel as a political body and nation are trouble-makers and shit-stirrers. As a people, every person of Jewish heritage that I have met ( if I knew if they were anyway..) is very nice, including my brother-in-law.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)by a lot of idiots here at D.U.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I don't like spying in general. At the same time I don't trust Israel, especially when it comes to the deal with Iran. They have made it crystal clear they want to attack Iran and drag the US into a war. Until the voters there wise up and elect a moderate (which could be awhile), I think we have to be very careful about Israel interfering in a treaty we've signed with another government in good faith.
Sadly I believe there is no right answer.
bananas
(27,509 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:31 AM - Edit history (2)
There was initially disagreement on if the deal is legally binding on the United States.[e] The U.S State Department clarified this in a November 19th, 2015 letter to Congress, stating that "The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is not a treaty or an executive agreement, and is not a signed document. The JCPOA reflects political commitments between Iran, the P5+1, and the EU."[235] According to the State Department Political Commitments are non-binding.
edit to add: more info here:
State Department Affirms That Iran Deal Is Only a Political Commitment
By Matthew Weybrecht Saturday, November 28, 2015, 2:10 PM
<snip>
This is not a new development, though it is interesting to see the administration assert it so explicitly. Both Jack Goldsmith and John Bellinger (among others) made this clear when the deal was announced this summer. Jack noted that the deal was not a pure executive agreement but merely a political agreement, which do[es] not create legally binding obligations, even if [it has] normative force in the political (or moral) context. And, as John argued, while the UN Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) that implemented some of the terms of the JCPOA is binding under international law, the JCPOA itself is not. Nor does the UNSCR require the U.S. to lift domestic sanctions.
<snip>
edit to add: it's not legally binding on Iran, either.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Treaties have to be approved by 2/3rds of the Senate.
The Iran deal is an executive agreement, one that can be undone by any future president.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Person above you posted the link with the state department clarification. It's a nonbinding political agreement, which kind of makes congress critters' freakout over the deal seem extra silly.
6chars
(3,967 posts)USA! USA! USA!
Oh, wait. Is this Democratic Underground? I thought it was somewhere else.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)Does this raise any concerns about anything?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/felafel-on-rye/warning-living-in-israel-is-a-commandment-of-the-torah/2012/06/07/
Which, besides providing insight into your ideology and agenda, means your wild claim is unsubstantiated and ergo assumed to be false.
It bears noting that Democratic supporters of Israel are not bothered by this.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/264473-dems-brush-off-latest-spying-report#.VoRiLptA-ds.twitter
It's only rightwing ideologues--the kind who get their news from Kahanist and Judeofascist websites--who are whining about this.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The source ?
Really???
LOL
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The poster is making a factual claim based on propaganda posted by a racist, fascist Judeosupremacist far right wing crank website.
Ergo, the factual claim is void of any merit absent a legit source backing it up.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Jewishpress.com is 100X more racist and extremist.
King_David
(14,851 posts)But Mondoweiss is considered a bigoted anti American-Jew hate site.
You will catch me complaining about Mondoweiss whenever it's used.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)from the world of anti-semites to his comments section, but he's not a virulent bigot like those who generate content for jewishpress.com
King_David
(14,851 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Not that it was Jews, but rather that it didn't include people representing 20% of citizens and 40+% of those ruled by Israel
Apparently the point went over some heads.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)A few examples of their rancid bigotry:
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/columns/fuchs-focus/liberal-orthodoxys-homosexual-dilemma/2015/06/15/
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/sorry-but-ill-spend-my-money-elsewhere/2005/02/09/
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/we-stopped-the-march-for-now/2006/11/15/
The youngsters decided to kindle Lag bOmer and Chanukah fires a bit early in the season. All their bonfires together left as much street garbage as follows the average rock concert. Despite the unwarranted and biased intervention of Attorney General Mazuz and Chief Justice Beinish, no march took place this year in Yerushalayim.
Even leftists like Ehud Olmert, Collette Avital, and Shimon Peres sided with the religious and viewed them as being provoked by the militant homosexual leadership. In any event, police indiscriminately beat religious Jews, even entering homes and stopping cars in order to drag people out and beat them.
Imagine if, instead of a few hundred Yerushalmis and yeshiva students, we would have seen 20,000 adults take to the streets each night fathers and mothers from Mizrachi and Shas, the yeshiva and chassidic worlds. All the police horses and all the policemen in Israel would not have dared beat them.
All right, so we temporarily pushed the arrogant homosexuals back into a large, outdoor closet, a stadium on the edge of town. Is the fight over? Absolutely not. The sponsor the Jerusalem Open House promises more parades and other similar events sooner than you think!
http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/haemtza/well-intentioned-but-wrong-to-condone-homosexuality/2013/02/27/
This ignores the underlying sinful behavior completely removing it from the category of sin. By definition marriage gives a societal blessing a gay couple implying that that gay sex is as moral as heterosexual sex. We are saying via legislation that we approve equally of both types of behavior. Gay marriage does not only permit gay sex it virtually endorses it as a completely legitimate alternative to heterosexual sex.
I dont blame gay people for wanting to be treated as completely normal in every way possible. No one likes to be stigmatized even a little bit. The homosexual community wants the world to look at them in the same way as they look at heterosexuals. As complete equals living a sin free lifestyle same as heterosexual.
Much as I feel for their plight and their desire to be treated as normal, treating gay sex a sin free sex is not what the Torah intended by forbidding it.
This has nothing to do with how to treat gay people. But it has everything to do with how we treat gay sex. We cannot say its OK to have gay sex when it is not.
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/criminalizing-our-religious-beliefs/2003/06/13/
King_David
(14,851 posts)I am saying that Mondoweiss is anti American- Jewish , anti Bernie Sanders anti Hillary Clinton.
Mondoweiss has suported Anne Coulter and also Donald Trump.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It's anti-Clinton, anti-Sanders, anti-Obama, anti-people of color, anti-justice, anti-GLBT, anti-everything that liberals stand for.
It and its readers can all go to hell.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Mondoweiss hate is directed against American Jews such as myself
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134121976#post79
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Also, hypocritical to hyperventilate about Mondoweiss but dismiss objections to rightwing publications.
Mosby
(16,340 posts)I agree with you about jewish press, I may have used it one or twice for news articles but I don't anymore because of their bias.
What I don't understand is why people like you don't say anything when anti-Semitic sites are posted here, king David mentioned one site, but it's a lot worse than just mondoweiss. Ifamericansknew, counterpunch, veterans today are just ones that I have seen recently. All of those sites publish anti-Semitic content.
There are very few standards for sourcing here anymore and it's the fault of the membership more than anything else, so just understand that when you go off about some opeds from jewish press but ignore filth from counterpunch and others it's hard to take you seriously.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025302886
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=1016138416
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251397997
You even posted in this last one
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)42. Counterpunch is an insane, antisemitic crapfest of a magazine.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=116884
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027003793#post57
57. Counterpunch is definitely anti-Semitic and anti-American
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125522269#post21
Note that you replied to the last comment.
Over the years they have featured anti-semites like Israel Shamir, Franklin Lamb, Alison Weir, Gilad Atzmon and Cynthia McKinney.
The web site is complete shit.
I guess this means you have to take me seriously now?
Happy new year!
Mosby
(16,340 posts)And just found that third one you linked to in your reply.
Thanks for speaking out.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to support their arguments, including claims that most Ukrainians are Nazis, etc.
Back in 2005-2007, before the 9/11 Dungeon was created, lots and lots of the conspiracy whackos would cite Holocaust denial sites like rense
shira
(30,109 posts)Mondoweiss, OTOH, not only supports Hamas incitement to murder Jews, but defends their terrorist actions as legitimate resistance.
Which makes Mondoweiss far worse. They're fascists cheering on Nazi style incitement and murder of Jews.
shira
(30,109 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)comes to US/israel policy.
Sadly he only has another year to attempt to reign in the apartheid state and its minions.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Obama :
As Bibi mentioned, this is our 10th meeting. Weve spent more time together, working together, than I have with any leader. And this speaks to the closeness of our two nations, the interests and the values that we share, and the depth and breadth of the ties between our two peoples.
As leaders, our most solemn responsibility is the security of our people -- thats job number one. My job as President of the United States, first and foremost, is to keep the American people safe. Bibi, as Prime Minister, your first task is to keep the people of Israel safe. And Israels security needs are truly unique, as Ive seen myself. In past trips I visited villages near the Blue Line. Ive walked through Israeli homes devastated by Hezbollah rockets. Ive stood in Sderot, and met with children who simply want to grow up free from fear. And flying in today, I saw again how Israels security can be measured in mere miles and minutes.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/20/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-netanyahu-israel-joint-press-
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)To the extent the foreign power in question was directing communications into the United States, they were lawfully intercepted.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)coducting an all out PR war against the President of the United States regarding the Iran DEal. I hope the NSA continues to collect data on Bibi the terrorist and the GOP House and senate members who were trying to derail the President's Iran deal. All of them traitors.
6chars
(3,967 posts)Those who would surrender their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.
frizzled
(509 posts)The fact the US intercepts this stuff isn't really the interesting fact.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)All on the same page, as Mark Foley would say.
Faux pas
(14,690 posts)UpInArms
(51,284 posts)These people are elected to represent the citizens of what country?
Oh. Yeah .... the USA ...
not Israel
Meh