Black Lives Matter protesters block roads to airports in Minneapolis, San Francisco

[ForgoTheConsequence]

Source: CNN

Black Lives Matter protesters temporarily blocked roads to airports in Minneapolis and San Francisco on Wednesday as part of their "Black Xmas" demonstrations against what they say is an epidemic of police abuses.

Another demonstration was held in the Minneapolis area's Mall of America, where five people were arrested for various offenses such as trespassing, disorderly conduct and an unrelated outstanding arrest warrant, said Denis Otterness, deputy chief of the Bloomington Police Department.

In California, nine women were arrested for briefly shutting down an exit ramp on U.S. Highway 101 to San Francisco International Airport, according to the California Highway Patrol.

"CHP has moved all protestors off of the freeway. Travelers will make it to the airport on-time," CHP Capt. Christopher Sherry said on Twitter. "There are many dangers associated with walking onto a busy freeway. There are also consequences that follow."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/us/black-lives-matter-protests/

[FLPanhandle]

1. Making people miss flights home for the holidays with little chance to rebook will win hearts.

Idiots.ll

[Purveyor]

2. ^^^this^^^ eom

[snappyturtle]

3. +1 nt

[7962]

5. Glad YOU said it. I get blasted when I point out the silliness of these tactics

But I guess they think they have to do SOMETHING to stay relevant and in the news

[mgmaggiemg]

9. agree with the title...

I made a suggestion..no one took it seriously....instead of protesting at the mall inviting everyone to an unshopping boycotting event...but hey what do I know....people want to have some fun...creating a positive image of having fun while boycotting is good press and revenge...

[bluestateguy]

8. Yep

Making me miss a flight home to see my (recently widowed) mother for the holidays would result in my withdrawal of support for BLM.

[iandhr]

11. Indeed

Unfortunately it seems that BLM has taken many actions recently that is counter-productive to their cause.

[840high]

13. +10

[SoapBox]

14. Yup.

The message is lost with such tactics.

My partner and an employee were making a delivery to a customer, using the 405 in Los Angeles today...they got totally trapped in the traffic nightmare...and missed getting the product delivered.

He was FURIOUS.

[JI7]

16. if innocent black people being attacked and killed and nobody held accountable

is not winning their hearts then what will ?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. Two wrongs make a right and win hearts? Fail. nt

[JI7]

46. The fail is comparing what blm is doing to killing an innocent

Person

[Bernardo de La Paz]

48. Exactly. That was your fail. nt

[JI7]

50. no it's your fail. I'm not the one saying one is like the other

[TekGryphon]

116. No, it was very much yours.

These ass-hats are causing very real, very measurable emotional and material damage to random people.

If you see this as anything other than very, very wrong, then I suggest you seek counseling before your sociopathic tendencies fully manifest.

[Lizzie Poppet]

79. Thing is, in most cases I'd bet that already DID win their hearts.

Then their holiday plans get fucked (and the money they spent one them pissed away, a big deal to working class people who have been saving all year for their trip) by this sort of aggressive, horribly mis-targeted protest. You can bet yoru life that the number of fucks they'll give is going to be reduced to near-zero. It's just basic human nature...

[Skittles]

20. I am sure you will be accused of whitesplaining

oh yes

[Stellar]

21. BLM is not trying to win your heart or the hearts of others that don't give a

fu*k about the lives of their fellow man.

They want whatever it will takes that stop the kkkops from killing unarmed black people with impunity - is all they want.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. So you think that everybody who missed a crucial flight doesn't care a "fu*k". Wrong wrong wrong. nt

[Stellar]

53. Wrong? How can you tell, what do you suppose? nt

[Skittles]

115. how can you tell?

what do you suppose?

[7962]

34. Ah there it is, if you dont like my tactics the you dont care about the problem!

sounds a lot like the arguments of a 10yr old. If you dont take me to Disney, you dont LOVE me!
People DO care about rogue cops. They just DONT care about self promoting grandstanders who take pleasure ruining other people's day. Why? Because it does NOTHING to solve the problem. But it keeps their 15 minutes going a little longer

[Stellar]

51. You are really doing your best to insult me and the cause!

Grandstanding! Those are our first amendment rights whether you like it or not.

[7962]

59. No, if I was doing my best it would get a hide!

See, the thing is, I WANT cops held accountable. I WANT them to go to jail for killing unarmed citizens. I WANT their immunity removed when murder is involved. I'm sick of seeing these bullies victimize people like Eric Garner and the fellow in Chicago, (as well as all the others who fit the same description). Not to mention the bullying that goes on where no one is killed or injured. I've been a victim of that myself. And not as a kid, as a 50+ yr old!
I just dont like the attempt to segregate the issue as a problem only for the black community, which is what BLM is doing. There are a helluva lot of unarmed whites killed too. This should be a protest against ALL bad cops and ALL their attacks on non-threatening citizens of ALL colors. BAD COPS are the problem.
And as another poster mentioned, tactics like BLM is using just make the cops the heros and THAT is what people remember. "I almost missed my flight, thank goodness the cops got rid of them before it was too late"
The 1st amendment does not guarantee your right to violate MY rights. You know that. There's no difference in blocking access to a Planned Parenthood clinic, which has been judged unconstitutional, and blocking one's access to move freely into an airport. Or anywhere else for that matter.
Time will tell. BLM will go the way of Occupy by the time the election is over. And instead of gaining support for a worthy cause, they'll be a footnote

[Stellar]

64. Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year.

[7962]

69. And the same to you & yours. Have a healthy one at the very least!

Because without that, nothing else really matters.

[Cassiopeia]

76. Well said.

[Igel]

60. Take my kid, for instance.

He asks to see something. By which he means "I need to hold it, fiddle with it, examine it while holding it and manipulating it."

He fails to understand that "see" can be a request to hold something, but the request can also be satisfied by letting him see it without touching it.

The same kind of semantic shift has happened with "hear" and "listen." I can listen to a person's complaint or request. But if I don't accede, I'm accused of not listening. "Listen" and "hear" only means "obey" when it's somebody in authority giving an order (which may be phrased as a request). For a lot of people, "listen" and "hear" means "pay attention to what I'm saying" at the beginning, but if you don't agree it devolves into "do what I say."

Similarly free speech means freedom to speak. For some it apparently means freedom to interfere with, to block, to harrass. It's mission creep. "If you don't listen to me, if you don't let me speak, then I will cause you a lot of inconvenience, financial damage, and put you at risk. Because it's just speech, after all." Sort of an aggressive kind of speech. Speech not as angry words, but as angry acts intended to hurt somebody financially, in terms of time, or even put them at risk (traffic snarls are hotbeds of traffic accidents).

The problem with speech is that it can be ignored. That's not cause for redefining "speech." It is cause for being creative in how to shape your message--and at the risk of becoming "tone police", it's worth pointing out that confrontation and such may be the emotionally satisfying way of handling things, but there's a body of research showing that if you want to win an argument the first thing you do is show that you're not hostile. Ceding a point that isn't contested is a good first start. Starting with accusations makes it much less likely that a person will ever admit that you won the argument.

And treating the argument like a military engagement that must not just be won but must result in the humiliation and complete capitulation and surrender of the enemy may be a nice ego-boost, but causes a lot of pain and suffering. And creates extreme positions on the other side. It requires some introspection and trying to see yourself from the outside.

[Stellar]

65. Happy Holidays to you. nt

[7962]

70. You have said it much better than I did.

Excellent explantation
I dont see how anyone could have a problem with what you said. But they will

[joshcryer]

25. "Travelers will make it to the airport on-time"

Much to do about nothing.

[FLPanhandle]

33. Thanks to the police.

BLM actually made the police the heroes of the protest.

What idiots.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

77. But yesterday they closed an entire terminal

for two hours. That's a lot of cancelled and delayed flights, missed connections, etc.

This is not a way to win friends and influence people, imo. And if BLM doesn't want to garner support from the general public, then protesting in front of the police station makes a lot more sense to me.

[leftyladyfrommo]

73. That's a crummy thing to do. nt

[FarPoint]

78. Exactly

Yes, they indeed get attention but not the essential support with respect for a just cause. Not effective protesting.

[Owl]

118. +1. Nt

[Old Union Guy]

131. It's not about winning hearts.

It's about punishing random white people (plus acceptable collateral damage other people).

Blood feud mentality.

All white people everywhere have the alleged benefit of cops killing random innocent blacks.

[truthisfreedom]

4. Misguided, but my heart goes out.

Merry Christmas everybody!

[7962]

61. Same to you!

[underthematrix]

6. Middle and upper income African American college students,

many whose parents are black academics, professionals and business owners. They feel entitled just like their entitled white counterparts. And that part I love but I'm more like their parents. I want them to finish college, go to graduate school, law or medical school, start a business, write a book, make a movie, paint a picture, create the next generation of technologies or run for political office. I want them to be successful and use their legacy and power to create sustainable change. I want them to do this with as little baggage as possible, like getting an arrest record. Because today's actions affect tomorrow's opportunities.

Do I agree with walking on a freeway that leads to an arrest. Hell no! Do I think it's a good idea to disrupt businesses when 76% of our economy is based on consumerism (HRC/ABC debate). Hell no!

I support Black Lives Matter because as a black person, I know my life matters. But I hate their inability to understand the danger to President Obama and his family. This is the problem many AA people of my generation have with Black Lives Matter. They want the impossible from a man who has already done the impossible. For this, I will never ever forgive them.

[mgmaggiemg]

10. great point thanks

[7962]

36. You encompassed so much in that short statement. Thank you!

Although I dont think Pres Obama will get much of the blame from the frustration of those bothered by these ill-advised acts. I DO think the problem of fixing the bad cop problem will be hurt. The more people BLM pisses off, the less likely they will go the extra mile to JOIN in demanding change & punishment for bad acts

[potone]

54. Try to forgive them.

They are young and passionate. They should listen to persons such as yourself who obviously have life experience that they could learn from. Eventually they will hear you if you keep talking to them. They don't understand that some of their tactics are harming rather than helping their cause.

I say this as someone who is old enough to remember the "don't trust anyone over 30" slogan, and believed it! How age changes your perspective!

[underthematrix]

82. Well I may forgive them after my beloved President's term ends and he is

safely out of DC. But yes, you're right. You and I grew up in a different era. And of course age always makes you take the longer view

[potone]

113. I understand.

I was worried sick about him after he became the nominee of the Democratic Party. Only the Secret Service has kept him and his beautiful family safe. Although I have been disappointed in some of his decisions he sure hasn't gotten any help from Congress and he has never been given any credit for what he has managed to accomplish despite all the forces against him and the utter train wreck he inherited when he entered office. Imagine what he could have done if he had had a cooperative Congress and a Supreme Court that was not dominated by right wing appointees.

I would like to wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy new year! We shall all survive this madness and maybe, just maybe, better days will be ahead for all of us. At least, I hope so.

[JI7]

80. schools are not in session right now

[underthematrix]

87. I'm not speaking of literally being in school. I'm

speaking of their future, which includes college because that's what middle and upper class African Americans expect of their children. I want them to honor that legacy and use it to create sustainable change; a well educated professional creative technologically saavy group of young African Americans who have spent time acquiring the knowledge and skills to be leaders.

Pursuit of a college education among African Americans is one of the most important outcomes of the Obama era. He has inspired African American parents to raise their children on purpose for a purpose. i just marvel at all the talent in the African American community. I look at Lebron James who didn't go beyond a high school diploma now using his wealth to encourage African American middle and high school students to pursue a college education, which he will pay for. He wants other African American children to have the same opportunities as his wealthy children. President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama have been the perfect role models for African American community and everyone else.

[moonscape]

119. Beautifully said! n/t

[LiberalElite]

7. Sometimes this is a good tactic and sometimes

it isn't. Right now it isn't. I'm assuming BLM hasn't thought this through. People are guaranteed to not understand or "get it" if their Christmas/holiday plans are ruined and understandably so. Some (perhaps even many) could be on BLM's side. Antagonizing them to make a point is foolish.

[valerief]

84. If it doesn't interfere with people's lives, their message won't get noticed.

This is just the right time.

Messing with holidays vs. Getting shot at.

I think the getting shot at is worse than the messing with holidays.

[Lizzie Poppet]

88. Really? YOU seem to have noticed it.

Was your life interfered with? Or is it just okay that someone else's life was interfered with, then reported to you by the media...?

[Travis_0004]

89. hopefully the police can arrest them and reopen the highways

The only message being received is

"These BLM people are a bunch of assholes"

[Skeeter Barnes]

12. Civil disobedience is all the working class has left.

When BLM first started these protests, like interrupting political gatherings, I didn't like it. But I now believe their protests have forced those in power to listen and there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of these arrests and prosecutions of murderous cops would not have happened without their protests.

The people that say "well, they're not going to win over anyone with that kind of behavior" don't get it. They're not trying recruit you into their fan club. They are saying that they are sick of a government that has singled their race out for random executions. They are not asking for your forgiveness. They are speaking directly to those in power and telling them that they won't tolerate this any longer.

I went from being irked by stuff like they are doing to admiring their bravery and determination. I've learned something from watching what they are doing and I think it's great. If workers banded together and shut down some roads and airports on a regular basis, maybe there wouldn't be so many of us employed as easily discarded temps, working for shitty wages and getting fired at the drop of a hat. I approve of BLM and their tactics. More power to them.

[yeoman6987]

15. I agree it's all working class has left

But who gets hurt with these demonstrations? The working class. First of all, all the stores that closed results in lost wages to the workers. The flights missed were most likely working class because their tickets were most likely non refundable tickets whereas if the rich missed their flight, It might be annoying but they can afford the extra cost of refundable ticket or they can just buy another ticket. That's the main problem with what they pick to demonstrate.

[CreekDog]

17. I'm really enjoying all the posts from Bernie Sanders' supporters decrying civil disobediance

one wonders if you even know who you are supporting, or if you do, if you're really supporting him because he is to the left of Hillary.

frankly, one of the many great things about Sanders was his involvement in social protests of the Civil Rights Era.

sadly, many of his supporters here do not agree.

[romanic]

29. Um

who the hell said anything about Sanders in this topic (besides you of course_? -_-

[Skeeter Barnes]

19. This article didn't mention a single missed flight. On the contrary, the CHP said people

were getting to the airport on time so your concern trolling isn't very convincing. And I've noticed that's about all you do, feign concern in order to take a contrary stance on any given subject. You're up to about 10,000 posts consisting of that kind of garbage and a lot of people have taken the bait but it's not clever or convincing.

[FLPanhandle]

35. People made their flights thanks to the police breaking up the protest effort

BLM protest so stupid they actually made the police the heroes of the story.

[yeoman6987]

39. Well on the news they said otherwise so trolling around like you said is wrong

I am sorry you don't have the full story and all you have left is attacking me. Hope you feel better. Merry Christmas!

[Skeeter Barnes]

44. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas as well, my good friend.

[yeoman6987]

45. Thank you! I find it hard to believe it's tomorrow.

[Stellar]

18. And I agree with Rep Maxine Waters...

As long as BLM doesn't interfere with what's going on in the lives of others, I guess it's OK with them, and they don't give a fuck what happens to their community. They probably would rather that BLM do their picketing at night when folks are in bed and they don't bother them or anybody else.

Instead of complaining about what BLM is doing, why don't those who are pissed off about it take their gripes to the police dept (and all other involved) and convince them that they should stop killing Black people with impunity on a regular basis. But then, making your flight is MORE important, I guess?!

[christx30]

22. I look at it like this...

BLM needs the support of the American people. Because if they get their asses kicked by the cops for doing a disruptive protest, and they don't have support from people outside their organization, who's going to care enough to help them out?

I know I wouldn't care if someone from the KKK or a pro-life protest got beat down for nudging a police horse, whether accidentally or not.
"Sweetie, looks like BLM got tear gassed and arrested at a protest today."
"Who are they again?" You want the answer to this question to be a positive one.
Either, "They are the ones that made us miss our flight, and I didn't get to spend my mom's last Christmas with her."
or
"They're trying to stop police from killing so many young blacks."

[fbc]

28. Really what good is that "support" anyway if black people keep getting murdered by police?

[7962]

37. Because they NEED the support of all those they keep badgering! Numbers matter.

Continuing to yell at me is not going to make me like you more. I thought we all learned that as children.
And trying to make this a "black only" problem just makes some white people think, "thats a shame, I'm glad it'll never happen to me" when it damn well COULD happen to them. The average citizen of any color isnt as informed as people on DU. Some people actually think this is a problem whites dont have to worry about. They're so wrong. Unarmed Whites get killed regularly by bad cops too. A LOT of them. Trying to segregate the problem is the wrong way to deal with it

[Stellar]

47. Well excuse me for thinking they need the support of those running for office,

or are in office and want/need to keep their jobs. The community of BLM and other concerned citizens are also out there helping them...if not you.

[christx30]

68. And those politicians need/want the support

of the overall public, and not just the BLM people. Because there aren't enough BLM people to make any kind of difference at the ballot box.

[christx30]

56. And what good is it to protest

Last edited Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

if the protestors come off as the bad guys and the cops are able to swoop in and save the day?
"I almost missed my flight due to BLM. Luckily, the police broke up the protest and got me to the airport on time. Thanks Officer Smith!"
Then on the next Election Day, that incident is going to be in their minds when deciding between the "tough on crime" candidate and the "accountability for police" candidate.
And nothing will ever change.

[7962]

58. And there you have it.

[Stellar]

49. Don't you think Bernie would need the support of Black people to help him defeat Hillary,

and not just the people. That why he has a plan and Hillary does not. Bernie is spending a lot of time and effort on it. The Black media is catching on and Bernies name is in most of their news these days.

[CreekDog]

24. I'm still aghast that this is coming from many professed Bernie Sanders' supporters

to his credit, I believe Sanders' would support the protests, as opposed to many folks here who say they support him.

but if the support is genuine in these cases, I suspect it may be more based on his gun positions being to the right of Hillary's and perhaps some other factor...

[Stellar]

52. Possibly, but at least Bernie has a plan and Hillary doesn't, as I see it.

As I've been saying, I am a one issue voter this time around, for the first time in my 71yrs and it makes no difference to me who gets in as long as they pick up the cause.

Bernie NEEDS the support of the Black community as well as they need him if he can pull them from Hillary before she comes up with a plan.

[CreekDog]

124. Why did you think my post was a criticism of Bernie? It wasn't.

Just pointing out that a lot of the people here who say they support him really don't seem to support what he stands for.

[Stellar]

125. Forgive me if I gave you that impression...

I understood you perfectly and I totally agree with you. I guess I was a little hot under the collar.

[RobinA]

38. I Guess I Don't Understand

the thinking here. I hear all the time about how "they aren't trying to recruit for a fan club." But how exactly do they think this sort of thing works to change things? The object of protest isn't to annoy people into doing what you want. It's to create a critical mass by RECRUITING PEOPLE in numbers that policy makers can't ignore. Disruption, whether by BLM, Occupy, or anybody else, just drives people away, which is the opposite of what gets things done. Change from the outside requires numbers. Walking into a restaurant and screaming obscenities at the patrons (Philadelphia, last weekend), does not help the cause, it hurts it by driving people away.

[Skeeter Barnes]

42. They will never have the support of the fair weather types anyway. You either want justice

or you don't. BLM understands those who offer this kind of conditional "support" never supported them anyway. They will always come up with something to object to in order to condemn them.

If they waited until everyone approved of what they were doing, they'd never stage a single protest, which is what their critics really want.

[RobinA]

57. Most People

In any movement are fair weather types. Most people do not fall into a "you either want justice or you don't" category. You can't do anything with just true believers. Most people are mainly concerned about their own lives, not social justice. Candidates understand this and know they have to give people a reason to vote for them and absolutely NOT give them a reason not to. Hence the mush most of them speak.

It's fine to be all ideologically pure, but when weight behind you is what you need, you take the weight you can get and you do what you can do to get it. Chasing it away is just not going to work.

[Skeeter Barnes]

67. I don't deny that there are people who don't give a shit or those that wish BLM would just go away.

No matter how many times you tell me I should also not give a shit or just outright disapprove of BLM, I'm still going to disagree with you.

My position remains the same as stated in post #42.

There will never be a right time or place for BLM to protest. You will always come up with some reason to say they shouldn't have disrupted. Someone, somewhere will be inconvenienced or pissed off by it and that is not acceptable.

[RobinA]

104. Actually

my reason for saying they shouldn't have disrupted will always be the same. It doesn't work.

[Igel]

62. The power of civil disobedience is not in disruption.

It's in willing to take the consequences of your disruption. Of being seen to so believe in the cause and the need to publicize the cause that you are willing to go to jail and face harsh penalties. The publicity shifts from the disruption to the moral bravery and character of those who were disobedient, and their valor and willingness to be made victims for their cause is what, in principle, wins the debate. If they're that devoted, we should listen up.

If all those engaged in civil disobedience are absolved of any consequence, it's zero-risk civil disobedience. That's not disobedience, that's throwing a tantrum that an indulgent parent looks at and dismisses as something to be outgrown. It requires no bravery; instead, it's the disruption, the lack of respect and the blatant contempt that the protestors hold the public in, that's at issue. This doesn't look good--the only people won over are those already on their side, or who just hear the words "civil disobedience" and don't look to the substance of the event.

To dismiss the charges is to dismiss the cause, reducing it from civil disobedience to uncivil annoyance.

[Skeeter Barnes]

66. I'm not sure of your point or why it was posted in reply to me.

[Lizzie Poppet]

83. Then maybe don't have their protest methods fuck with working class people?

That's not "speaking directly to those in power." That's anything but speaking directly to those in power, in fact. Want to speak directly to those in power? Fuck with them, not us.

[winstars]

23. BLM also stopped traffic on the 405 near LAX today, local news actually played it straight coverage

wise...

BLM stopped the southbound traffic for a half an hour. The people interviewed for the piece were divided:

These people are making me late.

or

delaying us all to make a point, well, makes a point about an issue.

This was on the KNBCLA 11:00pm news, about 10 minutes in, NOT exactly breaking news here...

[romanic]

26. After the whole twitter drama between Deray, Netta, and Shaun King

the tiny bit of sympathy I have for BLM evaporated. I could careless about them or their stupid civil disobedience tactics. We need a real movement, not this childish farce.

[Democat]

27. Ruining Christmas for people who might be on their side is going to help?

This group often seems like they are trying to damage the cause they are supposed to be supporting.

[Gore1FL]

32. I wish they would block voting registration sites with long lines

That would make a much stronger statement.

[hughee99]

55. When republicans make it more difficult to vote, or to register to vote, people call that

disenfranchisement. The scenario you described would be a field day for faux news.

I'll write the gist of it for you here...
Sen. Sanders and Sec. Clinton, do you support the #BLM blocking voter registration sites...

You do? So you're okay with denying people their right to vote.
You don't? So black lives don't matter to you.

[Gore1FL]

122. I mean blocking them with business.

I don't want to stop people from registering. I want them to be at full capacity for days with non-registered protesters.

Q: Sen. Sanders and Sec. Clinton, do you support the #BLM blocking voter registration sites... ?

A: I think it is awesome that so many choose to participate in our Democracy by registering in mass.

[Township75]

43. It was a group with a noble cause. Now it is a group of complete fucking losers.

Hopefully a better group becomes the new face for the cause.

[ValasHune]

63. The NAACP.....

Has always been a better group than BLM, even the Urban League is better than BLM. Anyone with BLM who has half a brain should know to abandon that ship, and seek other more reputable, responsible associates.

[Sunlei]

71. I stand in Unity with all Black Lives Matter protests.

[Throd]

72. Even ones damaging to their message?

[Sunlei]

74. I wish thousands would lay in the streets. I'm all for non violent protest.

[Throd]

90. I'm for EFFECTIVE non-violent protest.

[Skittles]

121. it's painful to see the misfires

indeed

[Vinca]

75. I can't think of a better way to alienate people who might have supported you.

Protest is fine, but the target should make sense.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

81. Can someone please tell these idiots to stop with the stupid stuff

Hell, they're losing my support. And nobody cares about all people being treated fairly than me. But damn. Do it the smart way. You're just pissing people off.

[valerief]

85. Wow, welcome to my Forever Ignored Club. Happy holidays. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

86. Please feel free to add me, too.

Because that protest methodology, fucking with what are often saved-for-all-year holiday plans of working people (instead of the cops and their oligarch puppetmasters who are actually responsible for what they're protesting) is idiotic and spectacularly counterproductive.

[Travis_0004]

91. BLM are a bunch of assholes for blocking the highway when people are trying to visit families

I figgured you could add me to the club also.

[christx30]

102. I'll be happy to join your ignore list too.

If you disrupt things like this, and it hurts what me getting home to my family, it's going to turn a bunch of voters against your cause. And I'll vote against any candidate that says anything positive about BLM, especially if it's the cops that help me get past your block.
I support BLM's goals and the overall cause of reducing the numbers of innocent and unarmed people killed by the police. It's a major problem that is long passed time to correct.
But this kind of crap isn't going to help things. Protest in front of a police station. Protest at a city council meeting. Inconvenience the people that are actually causing the problem you are protesting. But if you disrupt the innocent people, they are going to ask their elected officials to do something about BLM. And it won't be in BLM's favor.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

120. Post 81 was completely correct. Ignore me forever. Merry Christmas.

[Truprogressive85]

101. sure you do

[Scootaloo]

92. Some news for several posters upthread

1) Inconveniencing you is not "hurting" you.

2) If your support for people protesting for their human rights can be voided by them blocking traffic, your support was purely decorative in the first place.

3) Economic disruption is not just a valid tactic, it is the valid tactic. Men and women weren't sitting down at lunch counters because they just wanted a sandwich.

4) Success does not hinge on making people like you, it hinges on making people know why you're there and that you won't go away until you succeed.

5) Those outside a cause do not get to decide what is or is not "damaging to the cause." You want a say, you need to get involved, and earn your say.

6) Pissing people off is the goddamn point of any protest. It doesn't matter if they're pissed at you or for you, either.

7) The people putting their asses out there have done more thinking about it than you have. Guaranteed.

[Throd]

94. Collective punishment is what you are proposing.

1. Making someone miss a flight to visit their family for Christmas IS hurting someone.

2. I can support a cause with out condoning stupid counterproductive tactics.

3. Economic disruption is sometimes a valid tactic. Depends on who is being hurt in the wallet.

4. Success is not pissing off would-be supporters.

5. I can certainly deem what is harmful to a cause without being a participant.

6. See #4

7. The people disrupting holiday travel haven't thought this through. Guaranteed.

[Scootaloo]

99. Maybe if you have a piss-poor understanding of "collective punishment"

1. Making someone miss a flight to visit their family for Christmas IS hurting someone.

No, it's inconveniencing them. Same as picketing a store inconveniences people who want to shop there, or scabs who want to work there. This is reality, just because you dislike something doesn't mean you are being hurt.

2. I can support a cause with out condoning stupid counterproductive tactics.

If your support is conditional on whether or not they block a road, your support is insubstantial. It's very simple, really.

3. Economic disruption is sometimes a valid tactic. Depends on who is being hurt in the wallet.

Always a valid tactic. Protest history has shown us that the only way to get people - in this country at least - to pay any attention is to disrupt commerce.

4. Success is not pissing off would-be supporters.

If your end goal is garnering "likes" on facebook, sure. if your end goal is securing your human rights, then whehter people adore you or abhor you is immaterial.

5. I can certainly deem what is harmful to a cause without being a participant.

No. What you can do is have an opinion. This is a different thing from speaking as if you are delivering fact. You see, just because you are entitled to have an opinion does not translate into that opinion being at all valid. And without participation, all you are is someone on a messageboard shooting their mouth off.

7. The people disrupting holiday travel haven't thought this through. Guaranteed.

I promise you, they have. They planned it ahead. They carried it through. Every single person there had the option of participation or not, weighed the options, thought about what would happen, and decided to go ahead with it. You? You read an article and opine on the internet. I promise you, these protesters have thought more about this protest than you have.

[Throd]

100. If you wanna go the Westboro route, be my guest.

Just don't get pissy when people hate or ignore you at the expense of your cause.

[Scootaloo]

105. Don't ignore the impact of the cause itself.

Funny thing? WBC's protests are actually less disruptive than Black Lives matter protests. The WBC dudes just stand on the curb, wave signs, and yell. Maybe because there's only like forty of them, I dunno. But the fact is, that's about the most passive form of protest there is, besides, I dunno, signing internet petitions about stuff.

Their message is what makes people hate them, not their tactics. The WBC "cause" is inherently destructive, advocating the dehumanization of people. Black Lives matter has pretty much the exact opposite message, but stages more disruptive protests.

Now out of these two groups you are trying to equate.. .who has seen more successes from their efforts?

[christx30]

112. I think you're wrong about some things.

If your end goal is garnering "likes" on facebook, sure. if your end goal is securing your human rights, then whehter people adore you or abhor you is immaterial.

If people don't like your group, they aren't going to put any pressure on their elected officials to do anything positive for your cause, and might even go the other way. What changes has Westboro Baptist church been able to accomplish? All they do is piss of people that didn't cause their issue (gays being accepted). All people want to control and change is more restrictions on Westboro. Do you want the public to pressure the mayor or whomever to restrict and limit BLM?

You need to get the public on board. You need to not be worse for the average person than the problem you are trying to solve. If you don't care about the public, why should the public care about you? And then why should anyone in government? Why should any politician do anything for you?

Or, hell. I've said my piece. Don't listen to me. I'm just some guy spouting his opinion on a comment board.

[dhill926]

95. + 1....

well said...and needed to be said...

[Lizzie Poppet]

98. Point by point:

1) Inconveniencing you is not "hurting" you.

Not physically, no...no one's arguing otherwise. But not all harm is physical, and for a working-class family, holiday travel can be something that had to be saved up for all year. Ruin their plans and you have hurt them...people who had fuck-all to do with the problem you're protesting. Those people will now hate your guts. Protesters who think that people they're fucked over like that aren't going to do what little that might be in their power to oppose their cause are staggeringly naive about human nature.

2) If your support for people protesting for their human rights can be voided by them blocking traffic, your support was purely decorative in the first place.

Possibly. At least not deeply heartfelt. But it's also perfectly plausible that a lot of people at least somewhat supportive would be pissed off enough for that support to evaporate. Again: human nature. This is what happens when you've angered people and emotions constitute a large "pie slice" of their reaction.

3) Economic disruption is not just a valid tactic, it is the valid tactic. Men and women weren't sitting down at lunch counters because they just wanted a sandwich.

Sure...but the lunch counter protesters of the early Civil Rights era were directly protesting businesses that were treating them as less than full human beings. See the difference?

4) Success does not hinge on making people like you, it hinges on making people know why you're there and that you won't go away until you succeed.

Success hinges on making the right people know those things. Those "right people" are cops and cops' bosses.

5) Those outside a cause do not get to decide what is or is not "damaging to the cause." You want a say, you need to get involved, and earn your say.

Nonsense. Anyone capable of observing the situation with a modicum of objectivity has every right to weigh in with an opinion. You don't have to buy into a cause to correctly identify counterproductive methods of protest. Example: it's pretty safe to say you don't approve of open carry protesters (neither do I, for that matter). I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to assume you consider those protests to be counterproductive to their desire to see fewer restrictions on guns, etc. Does that mean you're part of their cause? Obviously not. Don't like that example? Feel free to pick one of the dozens of other examples...

6) Pissing people off is the goddamn point of any protest. It doesn't matter if they're pissed at you or for you, either.

Hmmm...that one deserves more consideration. I'm inclined to disagree...but I'm not certain. Interesting suggestion, regardless!

7) The people putting their asses out there have done more thinking about it than you have. Guaranteed.

Well, neither of us really knows that for certain, do we? I rather doubt that they all have (any group has mindless followers), but there are almost certainly those who have given more thought than I to these protests. While I've devoted a fair bit of consideration, it's not the biggest issue on my radar (economic injustice is).

[Scootaloo]

103. A'ite

Not physically, no...no one's arguing otherwise. But not all harm is physical, and for a working-class family, holiday travel can be something that had to be saved up for all year. Ruin their plans and you have hurt them...people who had fuck-all to do with the problem you're protesting. Those people will now hate your guts. Protesters who think that people they're fucked over like that aren't going to do what little that might be in their power to oppose their cause are staggeringly naive about human nature.

So the argument is that the protesters' human rights should take second place to the financial desires of hypothetical people? 'Cause your premise really hinges on some pretty big "ifs" on the part of the commuters, while ignoring the very blatant "is" of the protest. No one was financially ruined by this protest, and i'm going ot go on a limb and assert that no one would have been. After all, people who would be destroyed by missing a nonrefundable flight tend to be people who don't buy them.

Possibly. At least not deeply heartfelt. But it's also perfectly plausible that a lot of people at least somewhat supportive would be pissed off enough for that support to evaporate. Again: human nature. This is what happens when you've angered people and emotions constitute a large "pie slice" of their reaction.

Fair-weather friends aren't much use to a movement, are they? See, you can be pissed about something activists do, and still support the cause. Marissa Jenae Jonson made me angry when she took over the stage in Westlake - but I'm not so wishy-washy as to hinge my support of a cause on whether I like everyone involved. If you go like "that's it! Fuck you guys because you interrupted traffic," okay, fuck you back and bubbye.

Sure...but the lunch counter protesters of the early Civil Rights era were directly protesting businesses that were treating them as less than full human beings. See the difference?

Said protesters also took over streets quite often. They were all over the place, doing all sorts of things. Tghe lunch coutner example was just to make a point that they weren't there just becuase they wanted lunch, but because disrupting commerce is the most effective means of protest.

Success hinges on making the right people know those things. Those "right people" are cops and cops' bosses.

Yup. Thing is, you can achieve this with the "common man" disliking you just as well as if they love you. After all, you can annoy people to the point where they join your demands just to get you to stop. it's actually more reliable than trying to engender love from people inclined to be apathetic about the world outside their climate-controlled bubble and who will dump you in a minute if you interrupt their commute or their candidate.

Nonsense. Anyone capable of observing the situation with a modicum of objectivity has every right to weigh in with an opinion. You don't have to buy into a cause to correctly identify counterproductive methods of protest. Example: it's pretty safe to say you don't approve of open carry protesters (neither do I, for that matter). I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to assume you consider those protests to be counterproductive to their desire to see fewer restrictions on guns, etc. Does that mean you're part of their cause? Obviously not. Don't like that example? Feel free to pick one of the dozens of other examples...

And there's a difference between "my opinion is this' and "this is..." As I tel lthe other guy here, you can have whatever damn opinion you want, all day long. doesn't actually make it valid.

Hmmm...that one deserves more consideration. I'm inclined to disagree...but I'm not certain. Interesting suggestion, regardless!

Protest is innately disruptive. That's the point. Disruption pisses people off because for the most part, people are on autopilot - that's nit a judgement on anyone, it's just that we all plan our day, set our routine, and go to it. A bump in the road pisses us off. But that's good. When you're pissed, you tend to notice things. You might not like what you're noticing, sure, but for hte protesters, it's better to have people yelling at you than ignoring you.

Well, neither of us really knows that for certain, do we? I rather doubt that they all have (any group has mindless followers), but there are almost certainly those who have given more thought than I to these protests. While I've devoted a fair bit of consideration, it's not the biggest issue on my radar (economic injustice is).

I know that if someone makes a conscious decision to go out onto a freeway on foot, knowing that they will likely be arrested, they've probably put more thought into the situation than someone shaking their fist at that person on the internet.

[Lizzie Poppet]

108. *sigh*

I had most of a long response to this typed out...and some sort of keyboard flail on my part wiped it out (and Ctrl+Z did nothing). Dammit, this was turning into a good exchange (some of your points were thought-provoking, and I think I had solid counterarguments for a couple others), but I'm too annoyed right now to repeat it. I'll come back to this later.

And much thanks for your civility.

[Scootaloo]

111. Not a problem

I don't want to get worked up before the mead 'n' weed comes out tonight

[RobinA]

106. The People Outside

the cause are the only people who matter. Otherwise the cause is preaching to the choir.

[Scootaloo]

110. How effective has this outlook been?

No seriously. Hyper-awareness of public opinion is a good way to strangle your movement. It puts the ten-toed couch sloth in charge of what you're doing. And their driving interest is "stay out of my way and leave me alone." Movements that swing by poll numbers are movements doomed to fail, because the general attitude of the public is always apathy.

sure you'd like people to like you. Who doesn't? But it's not reliable, and isn't needed for success.

[Egnever]

117. Can you give even one example where pissing people off lead to a constructive result?

And I don't mean pissing off the right people as in your example above of people sitting in at food counters. That is doing it right those people were taking the protests to the people that were perpetrating the injustice to begin with.

Blocking freeways is nothing like that. That is just pissing off random people with no focus whatsoever.

Many have mentioned westborough, mostly because it is a great example that just pissing people off doesn't get you anywhere.

[underpants]

107. Well said

[Zorra]

132. Yes, ^this^. nt

[Truprogressive85]

93. Instresting

I wonder who side who some of you would you be on during the sit ins or countless other protest during the 60's

Now I can see where some Trumps Democrats come from.

[RobinA]

109. Depends

on the protest. Occupying the deans office - nonsensical waste of time. Blowing things up - criminal. Peaceful demonstration of numbers - go for it.

[romanic]

96. I like how the few supporters of BLM

have to resort to passive-aggressiveness and broad-brushing because we disagree with the tactics (that have been done repeatedly with nothing changing in regards to police brutality). We all already know the issue, the things that need to be done, and the changes that need to be made....but we still don't need to agree with BLM or swear a blood oath to their increasingly unpopular movement.

[Democat]

123. There will be fewer and fewer supporters

If they continue acts like this.

[Lil Missy]

114. Those kinds of tactics don't elicit any feelings of support with me.

If it were up to me I'd throw them all in jail.

[mwrguy]

126. A few ppl had a minor inconvenience interrupt their privileged life

If that is enough to make them an enemy then they were never going to be an ally.

[Scootaloo]

127. +1

[romanic]

128. so life is a privilege now?

jfc give it up already. -_-

[christx30]

129. If someone chooses to give of their

time, that's great. But no one wants their day interrupted without their consent. People do care about the movement. But no one wants to deal with it right at that moment. They have other things going on in their lives.
If you're running late to work, would you want me to come and block you from getting there, protesting plastic grocery bags?

[TeddyR]

130. Hopefully they all get arrested

I have to get my son to the airport tomorrow morning for a flight to visit friends he hasn't seen in years. If some assholes prevented us getting to the airport I'd hope they get arrested too. It does "hurt" someone, in the sense that it causes them to miss a flight to get wherever they are going for whatever reason and it is often money out of someone's pocket. These types of asinine acts help no one and turns off those inclined to support groups like BLM.

[LanternWaste]

133. Civil disobedience is far too inconvenient for America these days.

Civil disobedience is far too inconvenient for America these days. We will however, righteously defend the rights of anyone to get to an airport or a shopping mall. Priorities do not include the dispossessed ... only the consumer.