Surprise: School That Is Tolerant of Anti-Vaxxers Suffers Massive Chickenpox Outbreak
Source: Slate
Tolerance of racial and cultural diversity is good. Tolerance of those who endanger the community by refusing to vaccinate their kids is not. An Australian primary school just learned that the hard way: A bout of chickenpox has swept Brunswick North West Primary School in Melbourne, infecting at least 80 of the schools 320 students within the past two weeks, reports The Age.
Well, what did they expect? In a recent newsletter to parents, the schools president Trevor Bowen directly tells parents that they should tolerate the vaccine dodgers among them. And there are a lot of them to tolerate: Just 73.2 percent of students at the school had been immunized, compared to 92 percent within that postcode district and 90.4 percent in all of Victoria, Bowen reported in May.
In January, Australias No Jab, No Play policy is set to take effect, which will prevent unvaccinated pre-schoolers from attending child care or kindergarten. It's part of the country's $19 million effort to boost immunization rates, which has included making it mandatory for parents to vaccinate their children in order to get childcare tax benefits and rebates. The new policy, however, does not apply to primary or high schools. In schools like Brunswick, parents have to report their kids immunization status, but no kid can be barred from enrolling for not having been immunized.
While vaccination rates in Australia have increased ... vaccine objection rates for children under the age of seven have also increased steadily, especially under the conscientious objector category, wrote Prime Minister Tony Abbott in a statement in the Sunday Telegraph introducing the effort earlier this year. More than 39,000 children aged under seven are not vaccinated because their parents are vaccine objectors. This is an increase of more than 24,000 children over 10 years.
Read more: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/10/chickenpox_outbreak_at_anti_vaxxer_tolerant_melbourne_school.html
Well, I guess the US isn't the only country in the world with anti-vaxxer nutcases.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)And pray they do or they risk shingles. Three kids in my family and for six weeks we stayed home because one after the other got them. This is good news. The stupid 24-hour media at it again.
brer cat
(24,580 posts)The virus that causes chickenpox becomes latent after the infection and reactivates later in life causing shingles. Shingles can only develop in a person who previously had chickenpox. In no way does having chickenpox reduce the risk of shingles.
And be sure to tell the families of people who die from chickenpox how it was good news that they had it.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Now I think I have heard it all.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)or you would have known this:
http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html
Before vaccination was common, deaths from complications of the disease averaged 100-150 per year.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)Pick up a book.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)You seem to believe that getting chicken pox PROTECTS you from shingles later in life. This is completely wrong. Shingles is a re-activation of the chicken pox virus. If you never get chicken pox, you never get shingles.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)anymore.
MH1
(17,600 posts)Apparently you didn't have it or didn't have a bad enough case of it to experience growing up with permanent facial scarring.
In the catalog of illnesses that can befall one, it is true that chicken pox is towards the "less dangerous" side of the spectrum. But it is NOT benign.
lark
(23,134 posts)Chicken pox swept through my daughter's classroom in the first grade and some of the kids missed weeks and weeks of school. I was lucky, Amanda only got a very light case.
It definitely is the cause of shingles as well. That's what the dr. said when my mom had an outbreak of that nasty, hurting, itchy condition.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/surveillance.html
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)she went from running around to running a high fever. If she hadn't had good emergency antibiotic treatment, I might have lost her.
3catwoman3
(24,016 posts)There can be complications from chicken pox. Most notably, chicken pox pneumonia and chicken pox encephalitis.
Easily found on line stats -
Before the vaccine - 100-150 deaths per year, and over 10,000 hospitalizations
1995 - vaccine introduced/ 115 deaths that year
2007 - 6 deaths
hack89
(39,171 posts)demigoddess
(6,641 posts)usually children, beloved children, whose parents did not want them to die!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)justamama83
(87 posts)I was very hesitant- it was kind of new- there were rumors about side effects. Then my mother practically whacked me over the head- she was a pediatric nurse. Did her training in the early 60s- worked in a hospital til the late 70s. She told me if I did not vaccinate my daughter she would take her to the doctor herself. Mom told me that she watched quite few kids not only die from the chicken pox but some ended up blind. Also pregnant woman who were infected ran the risk of the baby having birth defects. Needless to say- vaccines won. Chicken pox might seem to be a "harmless" childhood disease but believe me we are better off without it.
*** edited to add I am not anti vaxxer- daughter had all the other vaccines it was just that this one was newer and had a few unknowns.
crim son
(27,464 posts)Curious.
brer cat
(24,580 posts)can be made mandatory. Certainly with flu shots some people can't take them because of allergies or medical conditions that might make them dangerous. However, just as some schools require vaccines in order to attend, I do think employers have rights in that regard. My sister is a retired RN and she was required to have certain vaccines as a condition of her employment. I think employers in businesses with a lot of public contact would be within their rights to require flu vaccines (and should pay for them) unless the employee can't safely take them.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)It lies dormant in nerve tissue and once the virus reactivates it's in the shingles form.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)Having chickenpox will not prevent someone from getting shingles - and a person with shingles can potentially infect someone with chickenpox.
Vaccination is the best course of action - first for chickenpox and later in life for shingles.
http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/transmission.html
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)That's why I thought it was the other way around.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)undoubtedly exposed to the virus, since she wouldn't get shingles without having the virus in her system.
I had chickenpox as a child; a very mild case. As an adult, I was exposed to an infected child - I became very ill, but did not develop the classic rash; just severe digestive issues. Upon examination, the doctors told me I had chickenpox; apparently it can manifest in different ways.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)I will be getting the shingles vaccine this year, for sure.
I know we tend - especially if we're a bit older - to think of childhood diseases as common and uneventful - and for most people they are. But because of that smaller number who suffer more, sometimes with lifelong impact, occasionally even death, vaccination is really the wisest course.
I would hate to think that my child (or at this point, my grandchild) was responsible for giving a disease to someone who rather than flying through with a few days discomfort, developed a septic infection, brain inflammation, or worse.
LiberalArkie
(15,721 posts)They have a new Pneumonia vaccine coming out next year that they say is great.
Hekate
(90,737 posts)...who caught it all from us older kids, and went from being a blooming infant to a sickly thin child the rest of her childhood.
Then there was the kid I met in high school who was a survivor of complications of mumps: encephalitis can leave you crippled for life. She was blind and wore heavy braces on her legs, used crutches, went to "special" school.
Damn right I had my kids vaccinated.
groundloop
(11,519 posts)Yes, I had ALL of them when I was a kid and luckily they were pretty mild for me. Still, there WERE kids who had very bad outcomes as a result of these diseases which are now totally preventable.
packman
(16,296 posts)My wife had chickenpox as a child also - a few pox bumps which disappeared in a few days, no fever, no further complications. But now the doctor is checking her for shingles and we are very aware of it.
In other words, it can manifest itself as a full-blown rash or just a few here and there. Get vaccinated.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)I don't remember having chicken pox either because I was only about two years old but I did and I also got shingles as an adult. Subsequently I got the vaccine, making it much less likely I will get shingles again.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)CDC has some smart folks working there believe it or not-
padfun
(1,787 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)So that might be why your mom thought she hadn't had it.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)In fact it is just the opposite. You will not get shingles if you haven't had chicken pox. But it is true that if you have not had chicken pox as a child you can get it later in life and then get shingles. Chicken pox is not a harmless disease, however. Complications from chicken pox and/or shingles can be serious, even cause death. Complications from the vaccine are much less of a risk.
https://www.aad.org/dermatology-a-to-z/diseases-and-treatments/q---t/shingles/who-gets-causes
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Chickenpox-Vaccine-What-You-Need-to-Know.aspx
Quite normal? Yes, and it is quite normal for kids to get measles, mumps, whooping cough, diphtheria and polio also if they haven't been vaccinated.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Warpy
(111,292 posts)If you get the disease, you are going to be at risk for developing shingles for the rest of your life. There is a vaccine for that, but it's only partially effective.
I'm afraid it's not the media that are stupid in this case.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)not only won't get chicken pox, but will never be at risk for shingles, either.
Meanwhile, I believe we who got the real thing in childhood, are even more likely than adults in the past to get shingles. Something to do with the virus hanging out in our bodies gets bored doing nothing, and so decides to manifest as shingles. I know, it doesn't exactly work that way, but the flare-up of the virus as shingles is apparently quite random, but if adults keep on being exposed to chicken pox, as they were in the years before the vaccine, the virus would be reminded that the chicken pox had already happened to the adult, and didn't bother becoming shingles. Again, not quite scientifically rigorous.
I got the shingles vaccine about two years ago, expecting to use up the last of the money in my health savings account, but my health care plan covered it completely, not even a co-pay.
My younger son got shingles when he was 20. He's a few years ahead of the vaccine for chicken pox.
Hekate
(90,737 posts)Not everyone gets shingles, but everyone who does had chickenpox at some time in their lives.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)We all had chicken pox in the pre-vaccine days. One of my siblings has had shingles twice.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Shingles is a viral infection that causes a painful rash. Although shingles can occur anywhere on your body, it most often appears as a single stripe of blisters that wraps around either the left or the right side of your torso.
Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus the same virus that causes chickenpox. After you've had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in nerve tissue near your spinal cord and brain. Years later, the virus may reactivate as shingles.
Unless you are going to dismiss the Mayo Clinic as part of the "stupid 24-hour media".
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I had the chicken pox as a kid and got shingles as an adult. As did my niece. Your information is totally backwards.
MissMillie
(38,568 posts)And I wouldn't wish shingles on my worst enemy
valerief
(53,235 posts)got chicken pox and everyone got measles. I don't remember when I had chicken pox, but I remember the measles. I don't recall being sick, but I had to stay home from school. I spent my time on the couch watching TV and popping up every few minutes to see myself in the big mirror over the couch (every house had that back then, too). I recall thinking how I looked then was how I'd look as a pimple-faced teenager. We all expected to get pimples during our teens, too. And we all got them.
on edit: Before someone posts I'm a liar because statistically not EVERYONE got the chicken pox and measles, I simply meant that most of us did. It was more common than not. A few lucky kids didn't get them and a few unlucky kids died before they could. Same with pimples.
groundloop
(11,519 posts)And while those diseases were minor for many of us, we can't forget that they can be fatal to some.
Much much simpler (and saner) to get your kids vaccinated.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)Kids can get very sick from both measles and chicken pox and some will die. Getting vaccinated is far safer.
valerief
(53,235 posts)yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)I took that as a comparison. I still do. No twisting needed.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Your finger might fall off with wagging it so much.
hack89
(39,171 posts)http://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/382716075/measles-is-a-killer-it-took-145-000-lives-worldwide-last-year
There is a good reason we vaccinate
leftyladyfrommo
(18,869 posts)It can get pretty bad.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)conversation on this topic.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Hmm, favorite group: religion.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I'm sorry, roll your eyes all you want, nothing you can do but post a full retraction, you obviously having nothing but misinformation to contribute to health topics.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)If you think that is comparing or conflating measles and chickenpox with pimples. you need a remedial reading class. Is English your first language?
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)A couple of kids I knew growing up in school were deaf from exposure in the womb to maternal Rubella. There were kids that were mentally impaired from such exposures as well. Pregnant moms would go to their general practitioners back then instead of OBs and contract Rubella from kids there and sometimes miscarry, have stillbirths or children with birth defects. I never received any childhood vaccines and had all the childhood illnesses too. People today don't really understand what it was like growing up in the 50s and 60s before vaccinations became widespread. I barely remember the kids in braces from Polio, it was a little before my time but my older siblings have told me horror stories. Anti-vaxxers will get shrill because a child got a fever reaction from a vaccine and talk about toxins in vaccines. Disease pathogens produce nothing but pure toxins. Toxins that are programmed to attack our systems and weaken, injure or kill us.
Tab
(11,093 posts)Not everyone got measles. I might have had a light thing of mumps; don't recall. However, pretty much everyone got chickenpox. We knew it was better to have it as a kid as opposed to an adult, so if someone had chickenpox, the mothers would get the kids together (or sometimes it just happened at school) so they'd all get it, and be done with it.
valerief
(53,235 posts)with the disease during one instance.
ProfessorGAC
(65,090 posts)Maybe German measles. Don't remember for sure. When i was that age, it was the early 60's. (Born in '56)
Although i recollect having the German measles. Since both parents have passed, i can't ask to be sure i'm remembering it right.
I definitely did have chickenpox, measles and mumps, though.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)The vaccinated kids probably did just fine. Non-vaccinated are now immune as a result of the outbreak.
Vaccinate your kids. It saves time, money and is easier on the kid.
Nailzberg
(4,610 posts)Sounds crazy, right?
It is. But I've heard that from anti-vaxxers. Usually right before I'm accused of being a shill for big pharma/lizard people/the Illuminati.
eggplant
(3,911 posts)Those things get pretty crowded these days.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL
Tab
(11,093 posts)Hekate
(90,737 posts)proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Chickenpox Vaccine Cuts Deaths but Raises Questions on Shingles
By ANDREW POLLACK
FEB. 3, 2005
The vaccine against chickenpox (introduced in 1995) has sharply cut the death rate from the childhood disease, according to a study released yesterday.
But even as the vaccine protects children, questions are arising about whether its use will increase the incidence of a related disease, shingles, in adults.
The concern arises from a hypothesis, backed by some evidence, that exposure to children with chickenpox helps increase adults' immunity to shingles, which is caused by the same virus. With far fewer children contracting chickenpox because of the vaccine, that effect would vanish, and adults, who have by and large, not been vaccinated, would be at greater risk of shingles.
"We already know the impact the varicella vaccine has had on chickenpox," Dr. Marietta Vásquez, an assistant professor of pediatrics at Yale University School of Medicine, said as she used the medical term for the vaccine. "Now it's time to see what impact the varicella vaccine has had on shingles."
Dr. Vásquez, along with a Yale colleague, Dr. Eugene D. Shapiro, wrote a commentary in the current edition of The New England Journal of Medicine that hailed the effectiveness of the vaccine for chickenpox but urged more study of its effects on shingles.
The same journal includes the study that shows that deaths from chickenpox in the United States dropped to 66 a year from 1999 to 2001, from 145 a year in 1990 to 1994.
The vaccine was introduced in 1995. While not usually fatal, chickenpox can be deadly, particularly to infants or adults or to people sick with another illness.
<>
The vaccine has been somewhat controversial and is not routinely used overseas. In the United States the vaccination rate for children, although having risen to 85 percent, is still below that for some other vaccines, said Dr. Jane F. Seward, the chief of the viral vaccine preventable disease branch at the C.D.C. and a senior author of the paper on the mortality from chickenpox.
One concern in other countries is whether using the vaccine would increase the rate of shingles in adults. Shingles, evidenced by a rash, blisters and pain, can lead to nerve damage called post-herpetic neuralgia that can last for weeks or months and cause excruciating pain, even from the touch of a shirt against the skin.
Infectious disease modelers at the Health Protection Agency in Britain estimated that shingles might increase 30 percent to 50 percent from vaccination. The harm from that increase would outweigh the benefits of reducing chickenpox rates in children, the modelers said. They conceded that their conclusions rested on assumptions about how much the rate of shingles would increase, which is not known.
<>
There is already evidence that exposure to children with chickenpox helps act like a booster shot to the immune system, keeping shingles from occurring.
Mothers caring for children with chickenpox experience an increase in immunity against the virus, as shown by measurements of their blood. And a study by researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine that compared 244 people with shingles with controls without the disease found that people who had the most contact with children had one-fifth the risk of shingles of those with the least exposure.
<>
CHICKENPOX VACCINE
The live-virus varicella vaccine (Varivax) produces persistent immunity against chickenpox. The vaccine can prevent chickenpox or reduce the severity of the illness if it is used within 3 days, and possibly up to 5 days, after exposure to the infection.
The childhood chickenpox vaccine can also be given as part of a combination vaccine (Proquad) that combines measles, mumps, rubella (together called MMR), and varicella in one product. However, recent data indicate that combining varicella and MMR vaccinations into one shot doubles the risk for febrile (fever-related) seizures in children ages 12 - 24 months compared to giving separate MMR and varicella injections. Parents should consider the lower risk associated with separate injections.
SHINGLES VACCINE
In 2006, a shingles vaccine was approved for use in the United States. The zoster vaccine (Zostavax) is a stronger version of the chickenpox vaccine. Study results suggest that the zoster vaccine can prevent about half of all shingles cases and two-thirds of postherpetic neuralgia cases. The CDC recommends that all adults age 60 years and older who have intact immune systems should receive this vaccine. . The vaccine does not appear to not work well in patients age 80 years and older and is generally not recommended for this age group.
Age and the Shingles Vaccine
Q&A
By C. CLAIBORNE RAY, JAN. 12, 2015
...The vaccine has been approved for those as young as 50, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says, but there is no recommendation for routine use by those under 60, because there are no long-term studies showing how long the shot remains effective in people ages 50 to 59.
There is solid evidence showing that it remains effective for up to five years in the older age bracket.
Protection beyond five years is uncertain, the C.D.C. says in its fact sheet on the vaccine. Therefore, adults receiving the vaccine before age 60 years might not be protected when their risks for shingles and its complications are greatest.
crim son
(27,464 posts)I am not an anti-vaxxer and my youngest child was forced to be vaccinated against chicken pox or he would not have been admitted to school. However there are a number of reasons why this particular vaccination is not necessarily a great idea. Even my pediatrician at the time believed it wasn't necessary or advisable.
Edited to add: my two older kids both had chicken pox before the vaccine was required for entrance into school. So did I, so did my sisters, so did my parents and grandparents, etc. etc.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Mostly anti-vax and vaccines cause autism bullshit. Chicken pox vaccine is necessary. If you think it's not, you're enabling anti-vax assholes.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2015, 07:33 PM - Edit history (1)
Post #64 references three New York Times articles and yet is deflected by a fact-free ad hominem attack in post #70? Your bluster is breathtaking, not to mention your ignorance.
What do other countries do? First, check out the question of mandates; then, recommendations.
Only three Western European countries have vaccination mandates as follows: France (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus), Portugal (diphtheria and polio), Belgium (polio). Germany, the United Kingdon, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain and others have ALL abolished compulsory vaccination. Israel does not have vaccination mandates either.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)68144-0/abstract
Lancet. 2006 Feb 4;367(9508):436-42.
Compulsory vaccination and conscientious or philosophical exemptions: past, present, and future.
Salmon DA1, Teret SP, MacIntyre CR, Salisbury D, Burgess MA, Halsey NA.
Abstract
Compulsory vaccination has contributed to the success of immunisation programmes in the USA and Australia, yet the benefits from compulsory vaccination are not universally recognised. Some people--experts and the public alike--believe that the benefits of compulsory vaccination are outweighed by the associated ethical problems. A review of vaccination legislation in the UK, Australia, and the USA raises four main points. First, compulsory vaccination may be effective in preventing disease outbreaks, reaching and sustaining high immunisation coverage rates, and expediting the introduction of new vaccines. Second, to be effective, compulsory programmes must have a reliable supply of safe and effective vaccines and most people must be willing to be vaccinated. Third, allowance of exemptions to compulsory vaccination may limit public backlash. Finally, compulsory vaccination may increase the burden on governments to ensure the safety of vaccines. Nevertheless, although compulsory immunisation can be very effective, it might not be acceptable in some countries where high coverage has been achieved through other approaches or efforts, such as in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, and the UK. These factors should be considered when compulsory vaccinations are being introduced or immunisation laws refined. Lessons learned from compulsory vaccination could be useful to other public-health programmes.
CMAJ November 8, 2011 vol. 183 no. 16 First published October 11, 2011, doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-3993
Canadian Medical Association Journal News
Mandatory vaccinations: The international landscape
Erin Walkinshaw
Jawdropping EU establishment journalism (3/27/15):
Distrust of vaccinations on the rise across EU
Published: 27/03/2015 - 07:55 | Updated: 27/03/2015 - 07:56
<>
For recommendation, against obligation
If there is one domain within the sector that tends to keep its nose clean, says Selon Serge Rader, it is vaccination. In Europe, France is the only country to maintain the policy of compulsory vaccination against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.
Portugal has kept compulsory vaccination for diphtheria and polio, and Belgium just for polio. Elsewhere in Europe, Germany, the United Kingdon, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain and others have all abolished compulsory vaccination.
More.
http://www.euractiv.com/network
EurActiv Media Network
The EurActiv Network of both independent and integrated offices provides free localised EU policy news in 12 languages, reaching more than 667.494 readers across Europe and beyond, every month.
The co-branded partner publications produce editorial content in Brussels (Belgium), Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain and Turkey reaching over 80% of our readers in their mother tongue.
The Network partners complement the Brussels perspective on EU news and policy debates with national angles and localise the coverage to the interests and needs of our readers.
<>
SURVEY OF GENERAL PEDIATRICIANS AND PEDIATRIC SPECIALISTS: http://file.scirp.org/html/22932.html
NOTE: 21% of PEDIATRIC SUB-SPECIALISTS WOULD DEVIATE FROM CDC GUIDELINES
On the topic of vaccination recommendations in the EU, explore this site: http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu
Specifically, "Immunisation schedules by target disease" for varicella (drop down menu): http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Pages/Scheduler.aspx
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Admit you're against vaccines.
I don't CARE what other countries do, I care what the facts and science are. You know why those countries did away with compulsory vaccination? Because of anti-vax assholes.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)That is FAR from informed. That's downright lies. I support science. Not op-eds and bullshit.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Those who get chicken pox most likely will develop shingles at some point in their adult life.
Those who get vaxxed, most likely will not.
Anti-vaxxers are assholes. Luckily, infectious disease should take them out. Sadly, they're putting the rest of us at risk.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)they can rejoin society when the start behaving rationally. Until then, they are more of danger to us than ISIS will ever be. (Yes, this happened on Australia, but it will happen here, too)