Nearly Half of Youth Say 'American Dream' Is Dead: Harvard Poll

[proverbialwisdom]

Source: Bloomberg.com

By John McCormick
December 10, 2015 — 6:57 AM PST

American's youth are down on the future, with nearly half of those ages 18 through 29 believing the "American Dream" is more dead than alive, a nationwide survey released Thursday by Harvard University’s Institute of Politics shows.

Reflecting the sour mood of the overall electorate, 48 percent of those asked “For you personally, is the idea of the American Dream alive or dead?” responded “dead.” Those who picked “alive” accounted for 49 percent.

While the race or ethnicity of the poll's respondents didn't significantly impact the results, the level of education of those questioned did play a role in determining the answer. Fifty-eight percent of college graduates said the dream was alive for them personally, compared to 42 percent of those not in college or who had never enrolled in college.

“It is disturbing that about half of the largest generation in America doesn't believe the American dream is there for them personally,” said John Della Volpe, the institute’s polling director. “That frustration, I think, is tied into a government they don't trust and they don't think is working for them.”

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-12-10/nearly-half-of-youth-say-american-dream-is-dead-harvard-poll

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More: http://www.iop.harvard.edu/sites/default/files_new/pictures/151208_Harvard_IOP_Fall_2015_Topline.pdf

[daleanime]

1. If it's not dead....

it's in a coma. And the question about whether we can revive it or not will be answered in the Democratic primary.

[yeoman6987]

51. I hate this happening during a democratic administration

Just looks awful. Not the president's direct fault but you know junk stops at the top especially historically.

[Tommy2Tone]

2. I have mixed emotions about this polling.

On one hand I see the frustration coming from college graduates but on the other I hate to see such negativity at this a point in their lives. It has always been hard but this bunch seems to be giving up. I have a buddy who's son graduated college and moved back home. That was two years ago and my buddy says seems to not ever be looking for a job.

I think blame lies with the far left and far right that seem to find a conspiracy in everything. The right thinks Obama is coming after their guns and a lot on the left think Obama is a neocon.

[jeff47]

4. Ah yes, both sides do it. Both sides always do it.

You know what can fix this? Tax cuts, funded by spending cuts. It's been our go-to solution for almost 40 years, and it's bound to start working very soon.

[Populist_Prole]

6. +1

It's certainly not "both sides do it". Overton's window has moved so far right that Ike Eisenhower could be called "the far left" today. Supply side economics was/is a right wing meme all the way. Despite its utter failure to rise all boats, it's still pushed by the republicans and the corporatist wing of the democratic party.

[Tommy2Tone]

9. Never said the hatred is equal but check out Bernie supporters.

They loathe Obama and Hillary as much as they do the Republicans. You know the people who think Hillary lies about everything and is bought and paid for by Wall Street. I also don't appreciate your attitude toward my reply. You might want to save the snark for those who oppose us.

[jeff47]

13. Nope! But you gotta find _someone_ to fill one side.

Otherwise, both sides wouldn't be doing it, and we can't have that! So clearly Sanders supporters must be utterly unstable, spittle-spewing balls of rage towards our sensible, tax-cutting betters. That way it balances out nicely.

I also don't appreciate your attitude toward my reply

I apologize that calling out your bullshit hurt your feelings.

Now, what sensible tax cut should we pass to make these millennials believe in the American dream again?

[Tommy2Tone]

24. I no longer want to have this conversation.

When you refer to my opinions as bullshit we have nothing further to talk about.

[jeff47]

31. Shucks. Now I'll miss out on all the other ways I'm not being properly sensible. (nt)

[daleanime]

32. ........

[elmac]

22. Not true

Been a Bernie supporter for over a decade but I do not dislike President Obama nor HRC. I will gladly support any Dem who wins the Primary, will support HRC with just as much enthusiasm as Bernie.

[upaloopa]

11. You are going to get your butt chewed for that

I agree younger people have it worse than I did. But the solution isn't more government programs.

When I was young unskilled workers could still find jobs.

An undergraduate degree was a ticket to a better life.

College could be afforded but was still a struggle to pay for.

We need new models and I am not sure what they are but I don't think taxing people more and giving free education will solve the problem of no jobs.

It will take many steps to improve things.
Keeping the White House is key and winning back Congress.

Having public financed elections is important.

Electing Bernie and his talking points won't solve anything.

[Tommy2Tone]

20. Exactly

Bernie's "chicken in every pot" bit won't work and the main reason is because it won't happen. The right won't every go along with this plan. Plus giving free college will tax those who don't go to college. Why should they pay for someone's higher education? Hillary says she is in favor of some sort of assistance but first a student must show they are serious about going to school.

My daughter got a job with State Farm and they paid her college tuition. My nephew got a job with a local hospital in Dallas and they paid for him to become an a MRI technician. He went to school during the day and worked at night. When he graduated he owed them 2 years. His starting pay was nearly $20 and hour and that was nearly a decade ago. These programs are still available.

We need a president who can work within this system and work for change, which is what Obama has done in his two terms.

[angrychair]

39. This reply is what is wrong with America

Your statement of:
"Why should they pay for someone's higher education?"
Your kidding right? By that logic why should I pay to send someone's kid to elementary school? If I I don't drive why do I pay taxes for road repair?
For higher education the current method isn't working. The second largest amount of debt held in America is student loan debt. The default rate is balloning out of control. Why? Becase the cost of college is ballooning out of control. We are asking young people to take on more and more debt at a very young age. Debt that can and often does drag on for the majority or entire adult life.
This debt is a serious drag on the economy. A serious drag on home ownership. Savings. Investments. Standards of living.

The other choice is to delay or never go to college at all. This mean a less skilled and educated workforce. Which means a lower income jobs. Higher training costs for employers. It impacts a family's or individual's standard of living. It impacts an individual's or family's disposable income.
We are the only major economic power that does not offer free or heavily subsidized higher education.

We can spend more on our military than the next 7 countries combined yet we cannot fund higher education?!?

[Tommy2Tone]

41. College is not a right

Basic education is.

I am all for lowering the interest rate and paying for community college. You can learn a trade at a community college.

I work in construction and nearly 100% of our tradesman didn't go to college and guess what? They can find a good paying job and that can't be said about all college graduates.

Oh and you comment about me being what's wrong with America is laughable and is what I see constantly from Bernie supporters.

[angrychair]

57. Where is "basic education" a right?

In the Constitution? Where are roads and sidewalks a right? Clean air? Clean water?
None of these things are "rights" anywhere. We do these things because they are in the best interest of society.

Guess what? Despite your personal experiences about trades people getting OJT, I don't don't want my doctor or the civil engineer that designed the bridge I drive on getting OJT. I do strongly believe and so does Bernie, that formal trades training should be included in his higher education plan.

[Igel]

61. SCOTUS.

Lau found that language accommodation was a right. The acronym "FAPE" soon resulted--free and appropriate public education.

It was quickly moved to include not just LEPs but also SpEd students, minority students, and pretty much all students. What "FAPE" meant kept increasing. In Lau it included sufficient English competency for high school, plus high school-level stuff at the time.

Since then standards (or "rigor&quot have increased, so presumably FAPE has, too.

I forget the premise. Perhaps it was rooted in due process. Perhaps in something else.

At this point public schools are no longer just viewed as agents of social change to engineer a tolerant society, just as it was intended to produce a sufficiently skilled labor poor when high school coverage expanded in the '20s and '30s and '40s (finally with 1/2 of 18-year-olds being high-school grads in '41 or '42). Public school are now saddled with ensuring equality of education and economic outcome.

[angrychair]

68. I know

I was waiting for that very point would be made for a very specific reason. The Lau v. Nichols in 1973 was about foreign language speakers access to an education. In fact we are the only country in the world with a constitution that has no language in that constitution that guarantees children a right to an education.
Even worse:
"In addition, each of these countries—well, almost every country in the world—is also party to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the most widely accepted human rights treaty in history. The convention, which prohibits among other things the kidnapping and sexual exploitation of children, vigorously asserts the right of a child to education. Of UN members, only Somalia and the United States have not ratified that agreement."

This article from The Atlantic is a great read on the subject of our nation's attitude toward education. It is pathetic:
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-doesnt-the-constitution-guarantee-the-right-to-education/280583/

Until we understand the importance of education we will continue to wonder why the majority of people struggle and seriously consider candidates like tRump.

[Tommy2Tone]

65. Anyone put a pencil to the cost of this program?

We have so many needs in this country that are ignored. Do we need another give away to rich people? Do you realize how expensive it is to go to med school? We going to pay for that as well? Where is this money coming from?

[lancer78]

69. about

6 times the aid we pay to Israel every year.

[angrychair]

70. Yes they have

https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8644614


Why we need to change our attitude about education:

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-doesnt-the-constitution-guarantee-the-right-to-education/280583/

[daleanime]

35. Making sure more American's have a better education....

and less debit from getting it "won't solve anything"?

[upaloopa]

40. It will solve paying for college but there still

needs to be jobs.
Also if more people had a college degree you will be raising the floor for job requirements. Instead of a GED you will need a undergraduate degree to apply to anything.
Another thing is that everyone will be paying for a few to go to college. It will not help anyone who is not going or those who did go.

I think you never look beyond the talking points to investigate what is at stake.

[Dont call me Shirley]

45. So the Scandinavian countries just don't work with their free education...

[upaloopa]

48. It is a sad thing that that comparison means

anything.

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. What's really sad is a kid who can't afford an education in this country. That is what is really

fucking SAD!

[upaloopa]

54. Yes it is I agree

We need to solve that but saying we need to adopt another country's practices without looking any further than that is sad also.

[Dont call me Shirley]

67. Scandinavia has the best educational system in the world from pre to higher ed. Our NCLB system is

going quickly down the garbage hole. why not go with a system that is fair and works well for everyone, like Scandanavia? The argument that we don't need a System like Sweden, Denmark or Finland is such a republican argument.

[jalan48]

3. One thing about kids, they see through the BS pretty quickly.

[Igel]

63. They've fallen hook, line, and sinker for the primary BS.

That the American Dream was actually a set of expectations that must be fulfilled.

A dream is an aspiration. It is not a set of expectations that must be met within a given time frame.

That it was universal in application. It wasn't. It was selective in application. Those who were wealthy had fulfilled the American Dream; for them it was an already-accomplished fact, not a dream. For many of the upper 20%, the "dream" isn't to move to the top 20%. It's to stay there. But it's stll an aspiration; it debases dreams to reduce them to expectations.

That it was to move from the bottom 10% to the top 10%. It wasn't. Looking at social mobility in those terms yields a handy negative number, and we delight in and relish negativity because it fuels grievance and outrage. The dream was that you'd improve your status over your parents', not go from ghetto or boonies to the upper echelons of power. Recasting the American Dream in that way makes it nearly unattainable. If you flatten the upper 10 or 20% and reduce the variance, you can make that more accessible, but "rags to riches" rather meant something different a century ago.

Redefining it in terms of percentile is also goofy. If all of society doubles its standard of living, the American Dream apparently wouldn't have been fulfilled--because nobody's changed status. Yet by most views when the American Dream was being established, that would have been fabulous. In other words, the American dream was defined not by becoming well off and respectable but by relative status. Note the current figures for the "hollowing out" of the middle class. It's horrible--more people are moving into the upper percentiles (by income) than not, oh noes. But their relative rank is relatively constant, so there's really no change, oh noes. The lack of change in rank is bad; the increase in income is bad. It's hard to find what would good, unless it involved upper middle and upper class people falling into the bottom quartile.

The American Dream died because it was redefined so as to be unattainable. This happened when it was vilified for a few decades, and there was every reason on the part of some scholars to say it was a false hope. The redefinition made it so.

[blackspade]

5. “..frustration is tied into a government they don't trust and they don't think is working for them.”

That's because it isn't.
The government is run by a group that has benefited from the economy the most over the last 50 years.
They, and the voters that put them there got their payout, so fuck everybody else.

[840high]

7. ...^ that

[Tommy2Tone]

10. My point is they should not just give up.

I'm 68 and live on two shitty part time jobs and Social Security. My wife is a stage four cancer survivor and she works part time as well. Plus I am too old to do anything about it but these young fold can change the system, but you can't change anything by dropping out and giving up.

[Tommy2Tone]

23. No I am not but..

I am working and surviving. I just don't believe it is the governments responsibility to support me when I can work. Then again I have no choice. I have no where to go and no one to help. Necessity is a great motivator.

The point I am trying to make and I seem to be doing it poorly is I don't see the system changing. Life has always been hard and I am addressing those young folks who seem to have given up. Surely no one here is endorsing giving up as an option.

[Tommy2Tone]

28. I never meant to say things are working for everyone.

I am stating that you have to be part of the machine to fix the machine. Promising a bunch of cool stuff that will never happen excites the young folks and a lot of older folds as well. I would like, just one time, for him to tell me how he makes it happen?

[wendylaroux]

33. you are 68 and your wife is

a cancer survivor.Neither one of you should be working.
You should be getting enough govt. money to
sustain both of you. And if you
don't think you and your wife deserve that,that is a shame.
I want it for you.

[upaloopa]

21. I wish we could have a real honest discussion

about what you are saying. On this board you are dismissed out of hand if you say anything like you did.

Government is not 100% of the problem nor is it 100% of the solution.

This is a complex problem and one liners and talking points don't help.

I work with Milenials who live in homes worth over $1 mil.

They did not cheat or steal or harm someone to get there. The thing I think is important was that they had successful parents who inspired their kids to do what it takes to be successful.

I also have friends who are on the third generation of surviving on government programs. Again the parents inspired the kids to be like them.

I am not saying this is an absute but the idea that Bernie and his government can fix this is not realistic.

[Tommy2Tone]

50. Well said..My issue with free college for all

is it will become a gift for the 1%, just like vouchers. I can guarantee you they will put caps on how much you can receive and it won't be enough. So the well off will reduce the amount they have to pay and poor won't have enough even with the money.

[upaloopa]

52. If we don't talk honestly about these things

we won't fix anything.

[Tommy2Tone]

55. How can we expect the other side to talk

when we won't? These are complicated issues and they require us to share ideas. It also brings me to one of my issues with all these sites. Very little conversation and a whole lot of you're wrong, no you're wrong chatter.

[upaloopa]

56. This isn't the place to talk

It is sociology rather than politics I think

[Tommy2Tone]

66. Seems like a place to yell at each other.

That's why I hang in the HIllary group most of the time.

[Igel]

64. Mine is different.

The 1% will still go to Ivy League schools, so that's a red herring.

What happens is that college majors become government policy. Slots for students are funded; if the projections are we won't need so many X in 5 years then funding for X is cut. Student desires? No matter.

That means most majors are limited. This creates more competition for access and high stakes tests become truly high stakes--you study for months to pass the entrance exam, because if you don't make the cut you don't go to college. Or you're told what college you can attend, based on your scores. Do poorly, and you're cut to make room for somebody else.

Corruption bleeds in, since a coveted college slot is subject to political manipulation. This may benefit the 1%, but it also benefits politicians at all levels.

Etc.

[R.A. Ganoush]

53. +1

[SamKnause]

8. Not only is it dead, but it has become a fucking

nightmare.

[ErikJ]

12. Sounds like a leading question, like asking kids "will SSec be there for you?"

and most kids will cynically reply with a no.
I wonder how the replies on this change with time.

[jeff47]

19. Well, I'm in my 40s. My answer was no in my 20s, and it's still no.

I kinda noticed that both parties have been trying to come up with plans to cut it. Yes, the Republican attacks are far more overt, but we've also got plenty of Democrats calling for things like raising the retirement age or adding means-testing.

The first one literally yanks it away from me, and the second is "step one" in turning the program into something for "those people" so that it can be cut.

[ErikJ]

26. Republicans have been bashing SS ever since it began

Ever since 1935 theyve been calling it a Ponzi scheme, communist plot, SS is deeply in debt and telling youth it will all be gone by they time they get 65. But its still doing well 80 yrs later. The only danger is that it will be dismantled or modified by the GOP if they get the power to do so. If we can get the SS tax as a true flat tax so even millionaires are paying the same % as everybody else on their entire income then we can actually drop the retirement age.

[jeff47]

30. One of our candidates in this election has proposed adding means testing.

In the form of higher payments to the poor. It isn't technically a cut, but it has the same effect - "Those people" are getting an "unfair" advantage. That weakens support for the program, clearing the path for further "tweaks" until the program is effectively gone.

Republicans are not the only threat.

[Tommy2Tone]

29. The scary part is if you think it won't be there anyway...

it makes it easier for the other side to take it away. You comment makes my point better than any I have tried to make. That's why being so cynical at such a young age is not healthy. The right thrives on us giving up and not voting.

[PasadenaTrudy]

14. Seems like

a term that needs to retire from our lexicon. Again, look to George Carlin on the myth of the American Dream.

[elmac]

18. Surprised only 48% though things always look brighter when your young

'American Dream' has been dead for quite a few years now, death by Reaganomics.

[frylock]

34. I'm sure these kids will be heavily influenced by all of Hillary's congressional endorsements.

[EndElectoral]

36. Did the poll define what the "American Dream" was?

[elias49]

62. Good question. The "American Dream" was time-sensitive.

The American Dream of the 50s and 60s would not even apply.

[Gore1FL]

37. It was poisoned in 1981.

and was in hospice for some time.

[jtuck004]

38. " they said, reached on their cell in the basement of their parent's home - where they are living -

with their $70K in student debt. Looking forward to a future where minimum wage means you got a raise, and millions of new terrorists are being groomed by our bombs and policies as we speak.

These kids are our future, and it took them this long to figure it out. That's a result of teaching them to be be just like us.

[WillyT]

42. K & R !!!

[glinda]

43. Bet more than half think the planet will be dead.

If we are to give young people hope then we must act together to repair as fast as we can.

[valerief]

46. Half say it's dead and the other half weren't even asked. It's dead. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

47. My teenager is very bummed out about her future. School is unaffordable, global warming, low

paying jobs. Yes the millenials do not know the American Dream. Her dad and I have not lived the American Dream. We have been worse off than our parents. And our kids are having a worse time than us. And that's not from a damn poll, that's real frickin life!

[proverbialwisdom]

58. Related: Wall Street Has Its Eyes on Millennials' $30 Trillion Inheritance

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-03/wall-street-has-its-eyes-on-millennials-30-trillion-inheritance

Wall Street Has Its Eyes on Millennials' $30 Trillion Inheritance
Look at all the ways Wall Street is trying to get its hands on that cash

By Michael P. Regan
03/03/15

https://info.federatedinvestors.com/Millennials.html
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/pages/millennials/index.html
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/pages/millennials-changing-consumer-behavior.html
http://www.justmeans.com/article/bloomberg-gadfly-the-do-gooder-premium

[olddad56]

59. and the same poll finds that over half still believe in the American Dream. So what

[taught_me_patience]

60. I'm surprised the number is so low

Things are a little tougher when younger, but they get better real fast! The american dream is alive and well if you live in a prosperous city.