Dispute at party may have sparked San Bernardino mass shooting that killed 14

[El Supremo]

Source: LA Times

A dispute at a holiday gathering may have sparked a mass shooting in San Bernardino that left 14 people dead and 17 others wounded on Wednesday morning, federal law enforcement officials said.

As many as three assailants, who carried long guns and wore masks, opened fire on a gathering of San Bernardino county employees around 11 a.m., sources and a witness told the Los Angeles Times.

A senior federal official who is monitoring the case said investigators believe one of the shooters left the party after getting into an argument and returned with one or two armed companions.

The shooting took place in a large conference room on the grounds of the Inland Regional Center, which serves people with developmental disabilities in Riverside and San Bernardino counties.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html

[romanic]

1. Regardless of the cause

this whole damn thing is fucking crazy.

[morningfog]

2. Good lord. Who has two people at the ready to mass murder?

[El Supremo]

4. Gang members.

[retrowire]

14. Exactly the conclusion I'm drawing.

Southern California has a good sized mex gang population.

[El Supremo]

18. mex?

Why not blacks? Or some other profiling?

[retrowire]

20. because....

https://www.reddit.com/live/w0nn1o5hu90y

Hispanic male was confirmed?

[Fuddnik]

33. NBC News.com has identified one of the attackers as Syed Farook.

Doesn't sound Hispanic to me.

[retrowire]

35. Well,

my source WAS a live blog written by redditors listening to police dispatch. Not the most accurate source.

That said, I guess these just may be middle easterners.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

44. Irish? Belgian?

Why on this flat earth is the GOP stopping any effort at background checks?

[msrizzo]

52. Wrong.....

He's been identified. Not Hispanic. In fact, probably disgruntled employee. A whole toxic brew of crazy.

[retrowire]

61. i know that now.

that info came from reddit during the event so I knew it wasn't accurate.

[msrizzo]

62. Information was flying last night.

We know a little more now but much mystery still remains.

[retrowire]

64. oh yeah. definitely. nt

[Alameda]

45. Ummmm a bit racist, don't you think?

....could be a lot of different groups....like Neonazi

[retrowire]

46. Mexican neo nazi's?

I was only drawing the conclusion with the initial data claiming that the suspect was hispanic.

TO MAKE MYSELF CLEAR: NO NOT ALL HISPANIC CRIMINALS ARE GANG AFFILIATED.

But, a hispanic (hell, ANY) man who has accomplices that are ready to take up arms together and set up bombs and attack people are likely, yes, apart of a gang.

[Yo_Mama]

16. But that's for money or turf, not for terrorizing government agencies.

I am sure in a few days they will know more. Until then, the press releases should be taken with enough salt to clear a freeway from ice.

I'd hazard that the guy who had an argument and left had either nothing to do with the attack, or that he picked a fight to have a pretext to leave to start the pre-arranged attack.

Of all possible targets, this would seem the most bizarre for a gang-related mass shooting, unless a drug ring was operating out of it.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

19. Not gang members, they're cowards.

Let's start calling all these shooters cowards.

[Jesus Malverde]

25. cartels...nt

[Xithras]

28. Close. Drug cartels. Not street gangs.

Sinaloa just had $35 million worth of drugs seized in San Bernardino a few months ago. The cartels are armed to the teeth and are more than capable of pulling something like this off. The Inland Empire has been a major drug distribution hub for more than a decade, which is partly why San Bernardino has a crime rate that's double the national average.

[6chars]

29. this sounds like something out of breaking bad

[Jesus Malverde]

30. Considering this was a daytime party.

In a second floor conference room. I'm going with terrorists.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Sorry that makes zero sense.

They left and came back in body armor and assault rifles and multiple magazines that just happened to be in their car?

[glinda]

6. good point

[7962]

8. Exactly. Just zero sense.

Unless the guy faked being upset as part of the plan. But then why bother? Just come in firing. Maybe the guy that left actually had nothing to do with it. If thats the case, getting upset probably saved his life

[jeff47]

38. Nothing in the story says they returned quickly.

Which would open the possibility of getting the gear from elsewhere.

[magical thyme]

48. he returned 20 minutes later. w/2 people who were willing to murder and die for him over an office

dispute.

And they just happened to have body armor, tactical clothes and weapons, possibly including pipe bombs, ready to get down and dirty at those nasty office politics.

[jeff47]

49. And?

Nothing says the guy wasn't already planning an attack, and decided to move it forward.

[magical thyme]

50. he has incredibly loyal and dedicated friends willing to die for him over an office dispute

versus suggesting he look for a new job and helping dig up a few leads.

[jeff47]

51. You're assuming they're friends.

Perhaps they were similarly disgruntled coworkers.

[magical thyme]

53. well one is believed to be his brother. last I read, they aren't sure yet about the woman. nt

[humbled_opinion]

41. Well maybe the dispute was

someone at the party accused the Middle Eastern man of being an ISIS agent and he said I'll be back and wham there you go...

[wordpix]

69. agree this is a possibility

He was maybe planning to use the guns/bombs/gear in an ISIS-style attack but got sidetracked. Dispute could have been due to co-workers suspecting him, or he might have been a drug dealer (ISIS finances itself this way) and drug deal went bad.

[bettyellen]

72. or they said anything like "glad you're not a radical Muslim". A bad performance review or stupid

comment could have done it for someone who has been keeping a lid on it for a while.

[mike_c]

5. this is just too far fetched....

I mean, I go to a party, get into an argument with someone-- a really passionate argument, too-- so I stomp out. OK, that's certainly plausible.

Right around the corner two of my friends are waiting with body armor, weapons, ammunition, IEDs, and matching black tactical garb. And they're some awesome friends because they're also all set to throw their own lives away over whatever I was arguing about.

Call me skeptical, but I'm... skeptical.

[wordpix]

10. you're right so I'm guessing employee arguments over drugs

Just a hunch. Otherwise, why would they target that exact place and time when they knew certain people would be gathering?

[angrychair]

12. Total agree

A crime of passion is unplanned, with whatever you have on hand, you don't have pipe-bombs just laying around

[7962]

17. Well, when you put it THAT way......

[kestrel91316]

32. Especially since apparently this was a party for county employees

such as the Department of Environmental Health.

Not usually a hotbed of gang activity.

[jeff47]

37. There's nothing in the story that says they returned quickly.

So the gear and friends didn't need to be right around the corner.

[Xithras]

40. There are scenarios that do make sense.

Drug cartels operate in San Bernardino in a big way. The article says it started as an argument, but NOT that the shooter was an employee.

Here's a very plausible scenario:

Employee at the office is dating/married to someone who works for one of the cartels. Boyfriend/husband gets invited to holiday party. The two start arguing. Husband/boyfriend is ejected from the party. Boyfriend/husband, working for the cartel, comes back to kill wife/girlfriend and everyone else is simply unlucky enough to get caught in the crossfire.

Or it could be a breakup gone bad? Ex came to harass an employee and got rejected. Went home and grabbed some gang/cartel buddies to kill her and the people who disrespected him.

Or maybe one of the shooters got fired? Remember, one of them is a woman. Maybe she's married/dating someone in a gang/cartel. She got fired, went home and told her gang/cartel member spouse, and they came back to get some revenge. After all, that firing just fucked up both of their lives a bit.


These are all wild speculation of course, but people who haven't spend a lot of time around gangs often don't appreciate how seriously they take "disrespect". Serious gang members, and virtually ALL cartel members, will kill you for disrepecting them. It's entirely plausible that whoever was involved in that fight was connected to one of the large criminal organizations that operate there. If a gang or cartel member calls up his compatriots and says "Hey, I just got disrespected, let's go take him/her/them out", many wouldn't even question it.

Given the body armor, I do think "cartel" is more likely than "gang".

[leftynyc]

63. I'm almost afraid to say

that two things that came up before around 9PM eastern last night that immediately made me think terrorism were the use of pipe bombs and that one of the perps was a woman. Pipe bombs are not the weapons for a crime of passion - they need to be put together and that takes time. Perhaps someone can correct me but women involved in a mass shooting seems VERY rare, except for terrorists. There have been more and more women suicide bombers lately, women stabbing soldiers in Israel - when I heard woman, I thought terrorist, not criminal.

[bluedigger]

7. There may have been a confrontation, but this was a targeted attack.

They didn't just show up at the party with weapons, body armor, etc... for a talk.

[valerief]

9. Praise Jeebus the murderers had their gawd-given rights to as many arms as they

wanted. Cuz freedumb.

[FrodosPet]

56. Yes, Jesus is the second most revered prophet in Islam

Sorry, they were not Christians.

[valerief]

59. But this is 'merka, a nation founded by Jesus and with a

Constitution that gives us gun rights. Cuz libertea.

[still_one]

11. I am really skeptical of this, especially based on the pipe bombs, the AR15s, and body armor

[Jefferson23]

13. Perhaps they mean one of the shooters came prepared to start a dispute at the gathering knowing

he would leave only to return as planned. There is a little more at the bottom of your OP.
There was a bomb type device too, that's been confirmed, I believe.

In 2010, parents and care providers criticized the center for ignoring children’s needs, the San Bernardino Sun reported. The center was accused of showing favoritism regarding vendor rates.
Employees filed a civil lawsuit against the center, alleging they were retaliated against for advocating for patients, the Sun reported


One male and one female dead and were armed with hand guns..car may have more explosives.

[kestrel91316]

34. One of my best friends has taken her older sister there for MANY years.

She has nothing but good to say of them. So really you should rethink the victim blaming.

[Jefferson23]

39. I don't have to rethink anything, the report added the information and I posted it.

They have no idea what the motive is and those complaints are documented,
thus the reason why it was mentioned.

[Yo_Mama]

15. Seems very implausible. You are going to leave a party, call up a buddy or two

who just happen to have a military-style armory ready, and come back and shoot up the place?

[Jesus Malverde]

23. Yep...nt

[Jesus Malverde]

21. Sounds like Cartels not gangs.

This is something the zetas or sinaloa cartel would do.

[El Supremo]

22. For you doubters, let me tell you of a somewhat similar story.

There was a traffic confrontation on my street. One guy went home and got a gun and returned with his friends and killed one of the young men with whom he got in an argument (who I knew) and wounded his mother. He's now in prison for life.

[bettyellen]

73. But did they have a garage filled with bombs? There was obviously an intent to terrorize here.

No matter what they claim "sparked" this.

[Angel Martin]

24. none of this makes any sense

i have the unpleasant feeling that we have just seen the Massoud assassination for 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#Assassination

and what happened today is not the main event

[Jesus Malverde]

27. 2 suspects killed by police

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html

[Marrah_G]

31. here is what I can gather

Just trying to piece together from different reports.

Someone named faruooq saeed worked for the dept and got into an argument with a coworker and then left. The the masked gunmen came in and started shooting without saying a word. Someone said the shooter had the same build as the guy who left earlier. So the police put the lead out to other officers to look for that person.

He may very well have NO part in the shooting and it was just wierd timing matched with a foriegn middle eastern type name and people jumped to conclusions, especially after Paris.

[enid602]

54. Farook

I, too think Syeed might be a red herring.

[Marrah_G]

55. I'm curious to know what the motive in this case is.

The number of people (3) involved changes things considerably.

[FrodosPet]

58. Farook’s father was shocked to learn of his son’s possible involvement in the attack.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471

ONE OF the suspects in Wednesday’s mass shooting in California was identified as a young father who worked for the county agency that had been holding a holiday party when the carnage unfolded.

Syed Farook, believed to be 30, was linked to the horrific slaughter that left 14 dead at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

Farook’s father was shocked to learn of his son’s possible involvement in the attack.

“I haven’t heard anything,” the elder Syed Farook told the Daily News. “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”

~ snip ~

[Tab]

36. Pretty damned well equipped response to an argument at a dance

I mean, c'mon. People either set this up for a specific target or train themselves to do it wherever needed. It's not arbitrary like that - they were either ready to roll regardless or this was orchestrated. That said, we can speculate all night. But let's be reasonable about it (and I know the OP was just relaying the story).

[mitty14u2]

42. We see what the Police really do best, Serve and Protect!

The Police have been getting bad press from murders by police and extreme force, we see what the Police really do best, Serve and Protect!

I have been following this all day the only people that have no idea what they are talking about has been Fox News, pipe bombs being thrown at police chasing SUV did not happen, long guns – No, its assault rifles and pistols that the two dead attackers had when killed, they had bullet proof vests on – No, they had on hunting camouflage clothes, three attackers, I really think it was only two the man and woman that have been killed. The third person caught may or may not be involved. I think by morning the 100’s of police and others will know exactly what happened.

I am amazed how Fox News is trying to blame Islamic extremists with nothing pointing at that direction, remember this facility takes care of disabled and “mentally challenged” people that would make more sense, crazy people did this atrocity.

2014 Gun violence in San Bernardino continues with fourth homicide in five days

Four homicides in five nights in the early days of July are desensitizing some residents to the violence in this city of about 200,000, and have an understaffed police department scrambling to stay vigilant.

“I don’t know what’s going on with this city,” San Bernardino resident Yvonne Rodriguez said while standing near the latest crime scene. “It just seems to be the norm. It really doesn’t faze anyone anymore.”

About every other week, officers from surrounding departments have been joining San Bernardino police for gang sweeps, like they did Wednesday evening.
The sweep was previously planned and not a reaction to the recent rash of homicides — the city has witnessed 30 homicides so far in 2014, three ahead of last year’s pace, Lawhead said.

http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20140710/gun-violence-in-san-bernardino-continues-with-fourth-homicide-in-five-days

[Jefferson23]

43. snip* LA Times

*A senior federal official who is monitoring the case said investigators believe one of the shooters left the party after getting into an argument and returned with one or two armed companions. Local officials at an evening news conference said it was not clear whether the people involved in the dispute were the same people involved in the shooting.

The shooters carried long guns and wore masks when they opened fire around 11 a.m. in a large conference room where San Bernardino County health department employees were gathered, according to witnesses and officials.

In an exchange overheard on a law enforcement radio channel, an official can be heard telling a dispatcher Farook "was at the meeting," referring to where the shooting took place, and then left "out of the blue."

Farook "was acting nervous" and left the building approximately 20 minutes before the gunfire erupted, according to the recorded transmissions.

A black sport utility vehicle was seen fleeing from the office complex where the shooting occurred. Shortly before 3 p.m., police began pursuing a black SUV in San Bernardino.

TV footage showed dozens of heavily armed police officers approaching the SUV, and officers in tactical gear could be seen stalking through a San Bernardino neighborhood.

A body could be seen lying in the street near the vehicle. Blood was pooling nearby and a weapon was lying just feet away.

The motive for the attack remains unclear.

"Is this a terrorist incident? We do not know," said David Bowdich, assistant director of the FBI's Los Angeles field office.

Burguan said that at least one device that police believed to be an explosive was recovered at the center, where authorities were expected to remain for several hours. Earlier in the day, a federal law enforcement official told The Times that a robot had been used to dispose of a potential explosive device.

The shooting rippled across San Bernardino. All county schools, as well as city government buildings and courthouses, were on lockdown as police continued to search for the assailants. School officials, however, stressed that students had not been in danger and were dismissed on the regular schedule.

During a news briefing, Burguan said information about the party being the focus of the attack was "preliminary" and he declined to comment on a motive for the shooting.

“We have no information at this point to indicate that this is terrorist related, in the traditional sense that people may be thinking,” Burguan said. “Obviously, at a minimum, we have a domestic terrorist-type situation that occurred here.”

in full: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html

[valerief]

47. A political dispute maybe? nt

[FrodosPet]

57. Father of San Bernardino shooting suspect Syed Farook says son worked as health tech inspecting ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471

ONE OF the suspects in Wednesday’s mass shooting in California was identified as a young father who worked for the county agency that had been holding a holiday party when the carnage unfolded.

Syed Farook, believed to be 30, was linked to the horrific slaughter that left 14 dead at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

Farook’s father was shocked to learn of his son’s possible involvement in the attack.

“I haven’t heard anything,” the elder Syed Farook told the Daily News. “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”

~ snip ~

[wordpix]

65. Thurs a.m. - Syeed and wife shot in SUV are only suspects

terrorist links being investigated. Sounds like gang-related so could involve a terror cell? Or Sayeed is disgruntled employee and planned to blow away those he thought did him wrong.

[FrodosPet]

67. I suspect it was a "twofer"

They were equipped and ready to commit murder and mayhem before the event ever started.

Going to the event first is the perfect way to recon the event. And getting out some personal beef is the perfect cover for why you are leaving.

[bettyellen]

60. Dispute? He was obviously planning this- so he picked a fight first. "sparked" my ass.

[DesertRat]

66. I agree. He had amassed so many weapons

We don't know the motives, but he was obviously planning something.

[wordpix]

68. my guess: he's part of a cell and amassed the weapons for

regular ISIS-type mayhem, but got sidetracked by something that went down at the party. Could be drug-related---ISIS is financed by drug dealing. Or could be fellow workers at the county suspected him.

[bettyellen]

70. How long had he been gone from the party?

I wonder was she in the parking lot the whole time? It seems she might have been. Very odd.

[bettyellen]

71. Just saw estimate of 10-30 minutes.