Israel won't down a Russian warplane if it enters its air space'

[Jesus Malverde]

Source: J Post

Israel will not take action against Russian fighter jets that encroach into its air space, a senior air force official said on Thursday.

The issue of Russian sorties in Syria was magnified in recent days after Turkey downed a Su-24 fighter jet that it claims entered its air space near the border.

According to Israeli military officials, such a scenario is not in danger of repeating itself in the skies over the Golan Heights.

"The Russian military is a new, key player which we are not ignoring," a senior military official told reporters on Thursday. "There is a clear boundary here, and they are busy with their matters, and we are busy with ours."

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israel-wont-down-a-Russian-warplane-if-it-enters-its-air-space-435493

[w0nderer]

1. wait what

first time in a long time i agree with Israel

they want to fight ISIS and supporters there of?

wow


now what'd be interesting is..how many countries LEGALLY fly across Syria?

[agnostic102]

2. well

I think this is smart of israel. Israel is a regional military power. And can probably come out on top in small point attack type of situation.. like there planes vs russian planes. but In a shooting war they would lose against russia and israel doesn't see russia as a threat. Why piss off the biggest country in the world over 15 second accidental incursions? Im not sure what turkeys rational was honestly. All they did was piss off the Russians who will surely go after any rebel in Syria associated with turkey.

[forest444]

4. Sometimes the question isn't why - but who.

Who put them up to it.

My suspicion is that the more intransigent voices in NATO (and NATO is a hotbed of Cold-Warniks) prevailed on the pliable Turks to do something that might sabotage Russian cooperation with the West in Syria.

I seriously doubt Turkey would have dared to pull something like this without NATO's approval.

[cheapdate]

11. Yes, like when Turkey wouldn't allow the United States

to use their territory to stage or launch offensive operations during the Iraq war -- necessitating the U.S. to find an alternate, 1,000 mile, overland route to resupply our army.

Turkey doesn't require anyone's approval to defend it's territorial sovereignty against armed incursions. They are in fact required to do so -- defend their territory -- as one of the most basic functions of a legitimate, sovereign state.

Not sure what you mean that Turkey is "pliable." They're fiercely independent.

[forest444]

14. The Turkish people are fiercely independent.

That's why Ankara had to yield to popular opinion during the Iraq War. This, on the other hand, was much easier to pass off as a "confused incident."

Its government, you see, isn't as independent as its people (but then, which one isn't!).

[cheapdate]

15. Another way to look at it is that Ankara wanted no part of a war against Iraq,

a war which did not require a crystal ball to predict would destabilize their neighbor to the South and strengthen the Kurdish independence movement in their own country.

(edit : furthermore a war which lacked a a legitimate justification.)

[newthinking]

30. The government's position on this recent incident is not generally supported by it's people

Russian tourism in Turkey is huge.

There is another post here that several of their "MSM" reporters have been arrested for reporting on what the government has been doing.

It seems that Turkey has brought a lot of attention to themselves in this recent incident and it is blowing back on them. As a result there has been a lot of reporting on Turkeys role in aiding jihadists and as a transport conduit for ISIS money and mercenaries.

[Demeter]

28. Doubt no more

Erdogan is insane and his son is supporting ISIS oil sales...

[oberliner]

5. Why did Turkey?

Couldn't the same be said for them?

[cheapdate]

8. Because Russian fighter jets don't fly overe NATO territory, just as

NATO fighter jets don't fly over Russian territory. Not without taking a strong chance of being fired upon. Russia would do the same. Without a doubt.

[jfern]

10. Turkey seems to be fine with the jihadists, they don't like the Kurds or Assad

Yes, they actually attacked the Kurds. Time to kick them out of NATO.

[7962]

6. Hell, I've said pretty much the same for years. Let 'em have at each other.

That way they focus less on killing the rest of us. The Iran/Iraq war kept both occupied for a decade

[cheapdate]

7. Well, good for them. Turkey still ain't having none of it.

[mwrguy]

9. Unless they see a Russian jet full of Palestinian children

then all bets are off.

[iandhr]

12. Since Russian Air Force Jets...

have to fly south to Syria and most of ISIS territory is in the North of Syria it is not likely that their plans would fly into Israeli airspace.


Maybe this statement means the IAF would allow Russia to secretly land in Israel to refuel.

[MisterP]

16. plus if it pisses Washington off enough it needs a new sponsor

[renegade000]

20. You know, I kind of want Israel to now become a client of Russia...

Just so I can see the 180-degree turn that some people on DU will do with regard to Israel-Palestine.

It'll be great, I can see the bloodthirsty cheer-leading already the next time Israel bombs the Gaza strip. I mean those dirty, rocket-launching ISIS sympathizing terrorist Palestinians all have it coming to them!

[LS_Editor]

17. Wow. This is a sensible move.

Israel and I haven't been agreeing much lately, but this is a good thing.

The Turks need to stop poking the bear. DoD is saying Russia did not violate Turkish airspace (that time).

[Purveyor]

19. No sane country would unless truly threatened.

[oberliner]

22. Is Turkey not a sane country?

Or do you think they were truly threatened by a Russian jet being in their airspace for a few seconds?

[uawchild]

23. Turkey's action was unhinged at the very least.

In this case, Turkey's actions clearly violated accepted international norms when firing at the Russian jet.

Xithras summed it up nicely in a previous post:

"International rules of engagement outside of war are pretty clear, and Turkey violated them.

When a foreign jet enters your airspace without permission, you warn it off first. If it ignores the warning and appears to be an imminent threat to the nation (i.e., it's about to bomb you), you can shoot it down. If it does not appear to be an immediate threat, you intercept it and try to force it to change its heading or land. If it fails to respond to an interception, THEN you can shoot it down.

These are the rules of interception used by NATO throughout the Cold War, and are the standard rules of interception used by nations around the world. Intruding jets are ONLY shot down if they pose an immediate military threat, or if they ignore interception attempts and continue to venture deeper into your territory. Neither of those were the case.

Shooting an aircraft down immediately, as a few clueless people here seem to be trying to justify, is only allowable when you're at war. By shooting down the aircraft this way, Turkey just informed Russia that they're responding to Russia as if they are in a state of war with Russia."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1014&pid=1272484

[Tempest]

24. "When a foreign jet enters your airspace without permission, you warn it off first. "

The audio of the warning the Russian jet received by the Turkish pilot has been released.

Apparently you missed it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

26. I agree. Turkey did not have to shoot down that plane.

It was an act of provocation, and while NATO publicly backs Turkey's right to do so, I'm sure there is a lot of anger at Turkey for complicating an already horrible situation.

The Turks have been bad actors throughout all of this. They've been behind trying to overthrow the government of their neighbor from the beginning, and they've pretty much turned a blind eye to ISIS (at best). Fuck 'em.

[oberliner]

31. Who is the US best ally in the region?

If it's not Turkey or the Saudis, then who should we be coordinating with? Who is genuinely interested in dealing with ISIS in that region?

[uawchild]

35. Best ally in the region that can actually contribute to eliminating ISIS?

We have none.

Sunni states like Turkey and Saudi Arabia are semi-openly arming and supporting ISIS and other Islamist groups in Syria. The Kurds' useful influence , being an non-Arab ethnic group, seems limited to Kurdish majority regions. Israel, while a strategic US ally, also has limited useful influence outside the intelligence field in militarily confronting ISIS due to the risk of further "enflaming the Arab street".

Iran and Syria are not considered US allies -- so like I said, we don't have ANY allies in the region that seem willing and/or able to confront ISIS, in my opinion.

This is why I think current US policy of finding and/or creating a "moderate opposition" in Syria has been tried over and over again for years at great expense but with little success.

It's gotten to the point that phrases like "moderate Islamist groups opposed to Assad" start getting bandied about as we send arms to groups that are actually cooperating with al-Nursa and even ISIS itself -- we are THAT desperate to gin up an ally in the region.

[awoke_in_2003]

36. No, Turkey isn't sane

They want to play both ends against the middle. They need to pick whether they are a secular member of NATO, or a country dominated by Islam. They can't be both.

[Joey Liberal]

25. Let Russia be their babysitters too

I'm sick of Israel.

[dembotoz]

27. so once again the minions at nutty yahoos says the wrong thing at the wrong time

turkey is a nato country

russia probes our air defenses with some regularity
we send up fighters each and every time
if the russian were to fly over us territory i would imagine a similar occurrence would result

[leftynyc]

33. Once again

No mAtter what Israel does - even when they're obviously doing the right thing here - someone at DU will find something to whine about. Even when saying they wouldn't be irresponsible like our NATO ally Turkey. You can be sure that the US would NOT shoot down a Russian plane as you already pointed out they regularly invade air space. Putin is a lunatic.

[ileus]

29. Israel knows no matter who the rooskies are bombing it's a guaranteed enemy.

[That Guy 888]

32. ^This^ n/t

[pampango]

34. Russia and Israel may have a mutual understanding.

Israeli Air Force Commander: Israel Does Not Need Russia's Permission To Fly Over Syria

Mutual understanding on where Russian and Israeli planes can operate.

"The Israeli Air Force does not need anyone's permission, including Russia's, to operate in the region ...

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.688611