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appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 08:06 AM Nov 2015

Holocaust Documents Trove Unearthed in Budapest Apartment

Source: AFP/MSN

A vast and historically valuable trove of Holocaust era documents, long thought destroyed during World War II, has been found in a wall cavity by a couple renovating their Budapest apartment. The haul of 6,300 documents are from a 1944 census that was a precursor to the intended liquidation of the Hungarian capital's 200,000 Jews in the Nazi death camps. Brigitte Berdefy, co-owner of the apartment overlooking Hungary's parliament, said that in August a worker detected paper after jamming a screwdriver through a crack in the wall. "We thought we'd ruined the neighbor's wallpaper," Berdefy told AFP. But then her husband Gabor peered through the crack and saw what looked like handwriting.

Carefully removing each brick, the couple eased out some 61 kilograms (135 pounds) of dusty papers, many with bits of plaster caked on, but all more or less in tact with the ink still readable-- thanks to a lack of air in the cavity and nicotine from the heavy- smoking former owner-- the yellow papers were given to Budapest City Archives. Istvan Kenyeres, head of the Archives, was amazed. Most wartime papers are more faded or rotten than medieval documents, on bad quality paper due to rationing he told AFP. "The content and scale of the finding is unprecedented," he said. "It helps to fill a huge gap in the history of the Holocaust in Budapest. - Ironing history - Since September, restorers at the archives have been literally ironing the papers to study them, pausing occasionally when they spot someone famous among the scrawled names.

The May 1944 Budapest census was to identify houses to serve as holding locations for Jews before moving them to a planned walled ghetto in the city's seventh district. Two months earlier Nazi Germany had occupied Hungary and deportations in the countryside to the gas chambers of Auschwitz began almost immediately. The forms found in the Budapest apartment contain names of each building's inhabitants, and whether they were Jews or not, with total numbers of Christians and Jews marked in the corners. "Jewish people filled in the forms honesty, they refused to believe where this might end up," said Kenyeres. Shortly after the census, around 20,000 Jews were moved into some 2,000 selected buildings, "Yellow Star Houses" with the Star-of-David Jewish symbol painted on the doors. "Thanks to the Berdefys we know that if a lot of Jews lived in abuilding then it likely became a Yellow Star House," Kenyeres said.

In late 1944, they were crammed into the ghetto where some died of starvation or were shot next to the river-- a poignant memorial of abandoned iron shoes today marks the spot. The arrival of the Russian Army in Jan. 1945 saved the rest though, unlike the Jews from outside the city, most of Budapest's Jewish population survived. An estimated total 600,000 Hungarian Jews perished in the Holocaust, most in Auschwitz. Kenyeres said that an estimated 23,000 more documents may still be out there which would give further valuable insight into what happened in 1944 and would also be digitalized and made available to the public if they turned up. "People should look behind their walls, you never know in Budapest what could be there."

Read more: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/holocaust-documents-trove-unearthed-in-budapest-apartment/ar-BBnh3NN?li=BBnb7Kz





A document dating from 1944 that is part of around 6,300 census forms of Budapest's then Jewish population is pictured in Budapest City.



A large group of Jews, escorted by soldiers of the SS, are taken to a concentration camp before the eyes of the crowd along the road.
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Holocaust Documents Trove Unearthed in Budapest Apartment (Original Post) appalachiablue Nov 2015 OP
suspect trump will want to see them for hints on logistics dembotoz Nov 2015 #1
Yup, he'll call it an example of "good management" and early use of "databases". nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2015 #2
First thing I thought of - Good management packman Nov 2015 #7
That pic of Jewish people marching to their deaths (most likely) just ripped at me. riversedge Nov 2015 #4
look close and all men wearing their ties & good coats, along the side a boy runs along. Sunlei Nov 2015 #17
Denial kicked in, actually. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2015 #26
the majority of any society will go along with the prevailing tide uhnope Nov 2015 #30
Here's a current example of what I posted earlier. These guys see the danger early. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2015 #31
Overwhelming. A true nightmare in a photograph. n/t Judi Lynn Nov 2015 #24
It must have been awful living in such a place Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #42
Trump along with many in today's Republican Party are Fascists. olegramps Nov 2015 #5
Yes. n/t dixiegrrrrl Nov 2015 #27
Absolutely, plus mix in economic instability, job uncertainty = right wing, nationalist extremist appalachiablue Nov 2015 #38
The inevitable result of fear, racism and xenophobia.. mountain grammy Nov 2015 #3
nazis were 'record keepers', similar to our USA lists of those we put on reservations, internment Sunlei Nov 2015 #9
Why were they saved? And By whom? And Why there? Demeter Nov 2015 #6
From the article: thesquanderer Nov 2015 #10
I'm referring to the documents, not the people Demeter Nov 2015 #11
Ah, got it. thesquanderer Nov 2015 #15
nazi 'government' left buildings they occupied, many times well before soviets arrived. Sunlei Nov 2015 #16
what exactly do you want "Putin haters" to remember? He's anti-gay KittyWampus Nov 2015 #25
I know right? uhnope Nov 2015 #28
wow. did you really say that? Russia liberated some Jews in 1945 so Hail Putin in 2015! uhnope Nov 2015 #29
all the millions of homes, farms, attics, buried in the grounds, in those countries is all thats Sunlei Nov 2015 #8
Well, to be brutally accurate, there's a layer of ash which is quite COLGATE4 Nov 2015 #12
I mean all the millions? of homes across many countries where the original homeowners went 'missing Sunlei Nov 2015 #13
No, they didn't. When the very few survivors tried to come COLGATE4 Nov 2015 #19
yes, same thing, their neighbors, country let them be taken away or straight out killed. Sunlei Nov 2015 #21
My grandmother (and her family) were Jews from Budapest frazzled Nov 2015 #14
Just a point of curiosity - did you know that the COLGATE4 Nov 2015 #20
No, I didn't. frazzled Nov 2015 #22
Who lived in the apartment wheniwasincongress Nov 2015 #18
Budapest, Hungary Holocaust Sources: appalachiablue Nov 2015 #23
That Wikipedia entry on Hoess is blood chilling. Made me cry. Nt JudyM Nov 2015 #32
Horrifying but what happened we must never forget. *Warning for these images/info. appalachiablue Nov 2015 #34
That WaPo article is fascinating. Her refusal to accept the reality of her father's actions & blame JudyM Nov 2015 #37
The views and statements of Brigitte Hoess are so disturbing, even audacious appalachiablue Dec 2015 #40
The museum is definitely stop-you-in-your-tracks compelling. The shoe collection, for example. JudyM Dec 2015 #41
What an incredible discovery! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #33
Amazing indeed. I'm sure the authorities and historians know much more than this article appalachiablue Nov 2015 #36
Thanks for sharing that. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #39
Great find Liberal_in_LA Nov 2015 #35

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
17. look close and all men wearing their ties & good coats, along the side a boy runs along.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 12:23 PM
Nov 2015

Does the boy see his Dad for the last time? Many in the crowd are woman and kids. Up on the hill there's a man with a Camera, a woman stands next to him. Wonder where those pictures are today and what their story is?

Nazi extermination was so 'organized', how can entire cities, entire towns just let it happen? many times the 'general public just stood there and let it happen or even worse, assisted the nazis, witnessed the killings.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
26. Denial kicked in, actually.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 07:22 PM
Nov 2015

Just as with any group. You can see it here on DU, for example.

A lot has been written about Jews in German held countries. Also movies and plays.

In 1939 some could look down the road and see what it could lead to, and they left Germany out of a sense of precaution.
Many could not allow themselves to believe what was happening even as time passed, and argued with those who wanted to flee.
some were not able to leave for various reasons but made sure their adult children did.
Others waited upon countries like the United States to help, but that never came.

Anne Frank, btw, applied for asylum in the US but it was denied.

By the time the people in that picture were marched out of town, they had been told by German authorities they were going to work camps, nothing to really worry about, etc. So they chose to believe, rather than be shot for resistance.
Sorta like we told the Japanese about their relocation camps, and they all went helplessly.

Meanwhile, in Germany, the passive bystanders were not unlike the Tea Party/fundie crazy people here who are screaming to kill all Muslims, to not let any non-Christians into the country. Hatred against the Jews was an old line, and easy to resurrect.
Hitler's hysterical rhetoric found a lot of supporters, who were in the majority.


That is why people like Trump and Cruz are so scary to listen to. People DO listen to them.


 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
30. the majority of any society will go along with the prevailing tide
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 09:53 PM
Nov 2015

especially if that tide comes in slowly.

Thanks for your post. Few realize the extent of denial--especially their (our) own.
It's a reason I disliked the Schindler's List film and all depictions that portray the Holocaust as something "they" did. A courageous film about the Holocaust would show the audience how they, too, probably would have looked the other way, or condoned it, or participated in it.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
31. Here's a current example of what I posted earlier. These guys see the danger early.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:47 PM
Nov 2015
Jews Are Fleeing Russia Because Of Putin

Spooked by Russia's actions in Ukraine and by the increasingly stringent punishments for anyone deemed critical of the Kremlin, Russians of Jewish descent have been fleeing in droves over the past 18 months.

Surge From Eastern Europe

According to Israeli authorities, as many as 4,685 Russian citizens relocated to Israel in 2014 -- more than double than in any of the previous 16 years.

And the trend seems to be accelerating.

The nongovernmental Jewish Agency for Israel has released figures showing a 40-percent surge in immigration to the country between January and March of this year, compared to the same period in 2014.


http://www.rferl.org/content/jews-are-fleeing-/27107988.html

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
42. It must have been awful living in such a place
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 09:26 PM
Dec 2015

I used to know a Hungarian gentleman (RIP, John) who escaped from Hungary during the 1956 Hungarian uprising. He would have been a young child at the time of the Holocaust, so he may have witnessed such events.

At any rate, he really hated hate speech. We happened to be at a place once where they were broadcasting Rush Limbaugh over the PA system, and he could hardly hide his disdain for Limbaugh. In fact, he shouted "I can't stand that $#%&*#&%!!!***@!!!"

John was a great guy.

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
5. Trump along with many in today's Republican Party are Fascists.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:14 AM
Nov 2015

It is not an exaggeration to say that they match every trait of the Nazis. Trump is using the minorities as his scape goat. Every0ne of the nation's problems can be directly traced to efforts of the modern Republican Party starting with Reagan. They have become the Party of Hatred and spew their message of hatred daily on Hate Radio and the FOX propaganda network. They hate Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Muslims, Homosexuals, Liberals and especially the poor and helpless along with anyone who doesn't share their warped immoral beliefs.

appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
38. Absolutely, plus mix in economic instability, job uncertainty = right wing, nationalist extremist
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:39 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sun Nov 22, 2015, 08:25 PM - Edit history (1)

behavior and rapid rise of hate groups, violence and reactionary forces. Herr Trumpf is a clown but he's well aware of this common human pattern. Why Did Bill Clinton call Trumpf the day before the first GOP debate I wonder. The GOP and Fox also hate unmarried (and unattractive) women and fem-nazis.

mountain grammy

(26,656 posts)
3. The inevitable result of fear, racism and xenophobia..
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 09:39 AM
Nov 2015

the database. Are there Americans capable of this? I think the number is chillingly high.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
9. nazis were 'record keepers', similar to our USA lists of those we put on reservations, internment
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:58 AM
Nov 2015

camps and kept as slaves. We're a world of records and lists.

thesquanderer

(11,995 posts)
10. From the article:
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:03 AM
Nov 2015

"The arrival of the Russian Army in Jan. 1945 saved the rest "

Remember, back then, the Russians were the good guys. So the arrival of the Russian army was equivalent to the arrival of the American army. We were allies.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/us-soviet

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
11. I'm referring to the documents, not the people
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:06 AM
Nov 2015

I know about the Russians. I wish more of the knee-jerk Putin haters would try to remember that...

thesquanderer

(11,995 posts)
15. Ah, got it.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 12:12 PM
Nov 2015

Yeah, it's interesting to think that someone felt they were important enough to save yet also realized they should be hidden. Makes you wonder which "side" the person was on, as you could come up with motivations either way.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
16. nazi 'government' left buildings they occupied, many times well before soviets arrived.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 12:13 PM
Nov 2015

perhaps someone hid those documents from soviets or defied nazi order to destroy all documents or even hid them well before nazis even took over and finished killing off all the Jewish people.

The lists had to have be hidden 'after' they finished using the lists to mark the Jewish homes, round up city citizens and send them away to their death.

We may never know who saved the papers/lists.

I don't think the soviets when they moved into places like This capital city of Hungary or places heavy on total extermination of the Jewish population like Crimea/Ukraine ever produced or saved any nazi lists/nazi records/nazi loots for future archives.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
25. what exactly do you want "Putin haters" to remember? He's anti-gay
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 06:12 PM
Nov 2015

invaded Ukraine and lots of ugly stuff.

We should remember the Russians took care of the eastern front versus Nazis 70+ years ago and hence give Putin some slack now?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
8. all the millions of homes, farms, attics, buried in the grounds, in those countries is all thats
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 10:56 AM
Nov 2015

left from thousands & millions? of 'missing' people.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
12. Well, to be brutally accurate, there's a layer of ash which is quite
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:10 AM
Nov 2015

deep at almost every concentration camp site. That ash is "all thats (sic) left from thousands & millions? of 'missing' people". BTW, why 'missing'?? Are you disputing that all these people are gone forever?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
13. I mean all the millions? of homes across many countries where the original homeowners went 'missing
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:25 AM
Nov 2015

All those homes, farms and apartments are now occupied by other people and the attics/walls and earth is probably filled with possessions of those killed.

When people were forced out many just took what they could carry, the rest was hidden in and around their homes. Or outright looted by the towns people.

In many of those hundreds/thousands of small towns, nazis/local police/ local 'authorities' came in rounded up the towns Jewish and killed them. The towns general public stood there and watched many of the killings. After that those farms and homes didn't remain vacant.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
19. No, they didn't. When the very few survivors tried to come
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 01:59 PM
Nov 2015

'home' after liberation they uniformily discovered that 'their' homes now belonged to someone else, and that they were definitely persona non grata.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
21. yes, same thing, their neighbors, country let them be taken away or straight out killed.
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 05:09 PM
Nov 2015

All their property was looted and few who managed to survive and come back, still weren't welcome back.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
14. My grandmother (and her family) were Jews from Budapest
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 11:35 AM
Nov 2015

Fortunately, they emigrated to the US in the teens (around 1913). My grandfather was also Hungarian, from Transylvania, in Romania, which was then a part of Hungary.

I wouldn't be here today if they hadn't both left the country. They never wanted to go back.

I visited Budapest briefly about 8 years ago, and—not knowing where my great-grandparents had lived—roamed the streets of the Jewish Ghetto, trying to imagine my beloved grandmother as a child there. (Unfortunately, she and her brother had been sent to live in an orphanage for part of their childhood, because the family was purportedly too poor to keep all the children.)

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
20. Just a point of curiosity - did you know that the
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 02:01 PM
Nov 2015

Chief Prosecutor for War Crimes (particulary known for prosecuting the Einsatzgruppen) was a Hungarian Jew from Transilvania? Benjamin Ferencz.

wheniwasincongress

(1,307 posts)
18. Who lived in the apartment
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 12:33 PM
Nov 2015

when the papers were likely put in the wall? Should be easy to find records of who lived there

appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
23. Budapest, Hungary Holocaust Sources:
Sat Nov 21, 2015, 05:48 PM
Nov 2015


- THE NAZIS' LAST VICTIMS: THE HOLOCAUST IN HUNGARY, Edited by Randolph L. Braham, Scott Miller, 1998.
http://www.ushmm.org/research/publications/academic-publications/full-list-of-academic-publications/the-nazis-last-victims-the-holocaust-in-hungary

- RUDOLF VRBA & ALFRED WETZLER, 1944 prisoner escapees of Auschwitz provided contemporary accounts of the camp to officials.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrba

- RAOUL WALLENBERG, Hero of Budapest, Swedish businessman & diplomat to Hungary aided wartime Jews of Budapest.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Wallenberg

- NAZI SS- SCHUTZSTAFFEL, composed of elite, Aryan troops, the foremost Nazi agency of surveillance and terror within Germany and the Nazi occupied countries of Europe.
As part of its race-centric functions, the SS oversaw the isolation and displacement of Jews from the populations of conquered territories, seizing their assets and transporting them to concentration camps and ghettos where they would be used as slave labor.
One large component of the SS was the TOTENKOPF Verbande, the DEATH HEAD Units that ran the concentration and extermination camps where Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, German and foreign political prisoners, dissidents and trade unionists were imprisoned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel

- NAZI SS INSIGNIA



- RUDOLF HOESS, Commandant of Auschwitz where more than a million Jews and others were murdered. Hoess introduced the pesticide Zyklon B containing cyanide to the mass killing process that reached 2,000 people an hour.
One of his 5 children, Brigitte Hoess has lived and worked in the Washington, DC and NoVa area for 35 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_H%C3%B6ss

appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
34. Horrifying but what happened we must never forget. *Warning for these images/info.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:19 AM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sun Nov 22, 2015, 03:48 PM - Edit history (2)

In spite of the Holocaust and tragedy and misery of the war, there were heroes who exhibited great courage to save others like Raoul Wallenberg I noted and thousands of other brave soldiers and civilians who fought with determination and honor to preserve Europe from fascism.

In WWII my father was a 24 year old, awarded 7th Army 1st Lieut. in the Rhineland Campaign and at the Liberation of Dachau Concentration Camp outside Munich. He stayed on with the US Army of Occupation in Bavaria after the war. I remember some things he told us and have his uniform insignia, Deutsche mark coins and SS patches that he gave me in college. God knows what he and thousands of others saw and experienced and what the victims of the war endured.

A friend from college whose parents, Hungarian Jews who survived Auschwitz, showed me on his arm where his parents camp tattoo numbers were located. I worked at the National Archives of the United States which holds the official US collection of Captured German Records from the Second World War. One day the head archivist of that division walked by holding an historic object and asked if I knew what it was. I said it's a canister of Zyklon B, the poison with cyanide used to exterminate people at the camps. I'll never forget that experience and other documents and objects I saw there.

- Four of five children of Josef Hoess, SS Commandant of Auschwitz and official at other Nazi concentration camps. Hoess, his wife Hedwig and their children lived comfortably at Auschwitz in a villa with a garden and prison servants.



- Jewish women and children walk toward the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau in May 1944.



- The main gas chamber at Auschwitz, near where SS Camp Commandant Josef Hoess was hung as a war criminal in 1947.



- Zyklon B pesticide canister with cyanide poison used to murder millions in the gas chambers of Nazi death camps.



- Brigitte Hoess' story as reported by writer Thomas Harding in 2013 including her Washington, DC Jewish employer who fled Nazi Germany after the 1938 Kristallnacht attacks. In the photo above, Brigitte is the girl on the top right. She was b. 1933, the third of five children of Rudolf and Hedwig Hoess.



Washington Post, "HIDING IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA, A DAUGHTER OF AUSCHWITZ" by Thomas Harding, Sept. 6, 2013.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/hiding-in-n-virginia-a-daughter-of-auschwitz/2013/09/06/1314d648-04fd-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html

JudyM

(29,290 posts)
37. That WaPo article is fascinating. Her refusal to accept the reality of her father's actions & blame
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:35 PM
Nov 2015

others is not surprising. It's a shame that her life couldn't stand for something more, but of course I also understand that it would take a lot of courage and depth of character to openly look at the horrors of what he did.

Thank you for posting that, it was a very worthwhile read.

appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
40. The views and statements of Brigitte Hoess are so disturbing, even audacious
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 01:23 PM
Dec 2015

especially about why must there be a Holocaust Museum in DC, (where she lives) and so much more. That Holocaust memorial and all others are essential to learning of and remembering the Nazi atrocity. I know from a museum colleague who worked in curatorial collections at the US Holocaust Museum in Washington even more about the enormous holdings there of personal effects which is so tragic.

Brigitte Hoess' denial of realities and her obliviousness and ingratitude about living and working freely in the US, in the capitol city for decades blows the mind. I also wonder which fashion salon she was employed at in DC for years, since there are only so many places like that downtown. It's so important that Thomas Harding wrote the article on her and also a book on the capture of her Auschwitz war criminal father Rudolf Hoess with the help of his uncle in 1946. Unbelievable.
Sorry to reply so late and glad you found the Post article worthwhile.

U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC established in 1993 for the study, documentation and interpretation of Holocaust history. Photo of entrance to the Memorial from Wallenberg Place with Dwight Eisenhower Memorial in foreground. The site is located adjacent to the National Mall.



The Holocaust Museum offers invaluable exhibits, educational programs and receives millions of visitors a year.

JudyM

(29,290 posts)
41. The museum is definitely stop-you-in-your-tracks compelling. The shoe collection, for example.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 08:54 PM
Dec 2015


I live near DC so have visited, but it has been a number of years... you are making me feel drawn to return.

Nice to see Obama there, good pic.

appalachiablue

(41,177 posts)
36. Amazing indeed. I'm sure the authorities and historians know much more than this article
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:28 PM
Nov 2015

indicates about property records, wartime buildings, offices and usage. Budapest during the war, especially after the Nazi invasion in March 1944 was filled with chaos under Hungarian and Nazi control and aggression. But there were also individuals and international organizations, some with the OSS who worked to try to save as many Jews as possible, 'the last Nazi Holocaust victims' and to counter the complete takeover of the key central European country.

Along with Sweden's Wallenberg, I read there were officials from Spain and Portugal assisting the Budapest effort. In addition to issuing Swedish passports to Hungarian Jews, Wallenberg also rented 32 buildings in the city claiming they were libraries and offices of Sweden and therefore neutral. To avoid harassment and attacks he slept at different locations every night. I'd like to think he or some of his staff were responsible for hiding and saving these Jewish registry records for posterity.

I recall our mother speaking of Wallenberg with deep respect when we were kids. Her sister was friends with a Swedish diplomat and count assigned to Washington during the war. When visiting their home he drove up in a car with a crest on the side. Way cool! we wore blue jeans at that age. They were from a broad minded and altruistic family.

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