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Eugene

(61,900 posts)
Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:32 PM Nov 2015

Universal Health Care to Appear on Colorado Ballot in 2016

Source: Associated Press

Supporters of universal health care have gathered enough signatures to put on next year's ballot a plan to make Colorado the first state to opt out of the federal health law and replace it with taxpayer-funded coverage for all.

Proponents submitted 158,831 qualified signatures, about 60,000 more than required to put the measure on the ballot, Secretary of State Wayne Williams said Monday. The question would make Colorado the first state to opt out of the federal Affordable Care Act and replace it with universal health care.

Vermont lawmakers passed universal health care in 2011. But three years later, the state abandoned the plan as too expensive.

The ColoradoCareYES campaign says employers would have to pay a new tax — about 7 percent of a worker's wages — into the health co-op, on top of deductions for Social Security and Medicare. Employees would have a payroll tax of about 3 percent. Both employers and workers then would not have to pay premiums to a private health insurer.

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Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/universal-health-care-colorado-ballot-2016-35086083



By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS DENVER — Nov 9, 2015, 7:35 PM ET
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Universal Health Care to Appear on Colorado Ballot in 2016 (Original Post) Eugene Nov 2015 OP
Hey DNC! THAT is how you get Democrats to the polls in swing states. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #1
it can be paid for with drug users' tax on drugs nt msongs Nov 2015 #2
Oh no. Not even close Recursion Nov 2015 #10
But. if my experience paying for my own health insurance a few years ago is typical, JDPriestly Nov 2015 #17
I agree, and I want to be clear that I'm for CO trying this Recursion Nov 2015 #18
I don't think we mean the same thing single payer. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #20
Maybe you didn't pay attention in France? Patients pay 30% there Recursion Nov 2015 #21
Eegads! Look what happens when a state legalizes weed. Acting downright sensible 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #3
Hopefully they don't forget to leave their couches like they did in 2014. n/m ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #11
Mary Jane is the thoughtful, creative, calming drug. Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2015 #28
It looks like we're going to have to do everything from the ground Hydra Nov 2015 #4
Thanks! That's great news! nt pnwmom Nov 2015 #5
Time is running out under the innovation waiver. pa28 Nov 2015 #6
I find it amusing that colorado is leading on this and MJ passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #7
Historically, Colorado has been a middle-of-the-road state DavidDvorkin Nov 2015 #13
That's good to know passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #14
Colorado Springs give Colorado a bad rap. joshcryer Nov 2015 #16
This will be a battle, but I'm ready to fight it... mountain grammy Nov 2015 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Nov 2015 #9
It will surprise me if 10% of payrolls is enough money Recursion Nov 2015 #12
Indeed. Math can be problematic Elmergantry Nov 2015 #24
Is that supposed to be for the entire population? moose65 Nov 2015 #25
Fair question. Let me see what I can dig up Recursion Nov 2015 #27
Good for them davidpdx Nov 2015 #15
Wonderful! Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Nov 2015 #19
Won't you still need a private plan forthemiddle Nov 2015 #22
What about people with only investment income? No tax on that? lostnfound Nov 2015 #23
I hope the system they ahve created will pass and prove successful. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #26

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. Oh no. Not even close
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:45 AM
Nov 2015

Revenue from cannabis sales this year are predicted to be $125 million. A combined 10% payroll levy on Colorado wages yields $12 billion, which is what it would take to pay for health care for Colorado's 5 million people. And even that is optimistic, since that assumes we can provide treatments at half the cost per person that the current system is.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
17. But. if my experience paying for my own health insurance a few years ago is typical,
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:09 AM
Nov 2015

10% of a person's pay (remember, many people earn only minimum wage or just a little higher) is cheaper than the cost of relatively inexpensive private health insurance.

For employers who already pay for their employees' health insurance, it may be cheaper to pay 10% of payroll or wages rather than to buy private health insurance for employees.

We shall see.

European insurance is single payer and is cheaper than ours although it includes dental and eye care among other things.

Where we lived, the locals went to spas on their single payer health insurance. The insurance was still cheaper than it is here.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
18. I agree, and I want to be clear that I'm for CO trying this
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:29 AM
Nov 2015

I just personally doubt that a 10% levy will be enough, barring a huge change in the provider structure.

European insurance is single payer

Rarely. Really, just the UK and Austria. The rest of the countries have multi-payer systems.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
20. I don't think we mean the same thing single payer.
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:14 AM
Nov 2015

I may be using the term rather loosely. I lived in four European countries because my husband taught there.

The countries we lived in with the exception of the UK an maybe France had each a handful or at least a couple of insurance, non-profit health insurance companies. You had some choice, but the single payer aspect referred to the fact (in my mind) that our insurance premiums were taken out of our paychecks and used for the insurance. Everyone had insurance. Everyone. There was, as far as I understood, no for-profit insurance. The government regulated the insurance providers so that everyone got excellent and full-coverage services for their money. I think that if you paid extra you could have things like a private room.

When my first baby was born, I shared a ward with 11 other new mothers. It was great. All the babies. The joy. For me as a new mother in a country alone, it was great to learn from the more experienced mothers. They kept me in the hospital 2 weeks because I had complications. That would almost never be possible here. It's have your baby and get out as quickly as possible. That can be great if you have a normal birth, but if you don't, it can be tough. Depends on your age probably. I was a bit older than most new mothers.

Anyway, I loved the European system but single-payer did not mean just one insurance company. (Except maybe in the UK and I'm not sure about France.) it meant that the payments went through the government and were taken out of our paychecks. It also meant that the payments were pooled so that everyone got insurance. No one was left out.

My brother-in-law once had heart problems in the airplane on a trip to Scotland. When he landed, he was placed in a hospital at no cost to him. Amazing. We do not treat our foreign guests that well at all. Single payer is kind of a misleading term in my opinion. Maybe universal healthcare is better. The ACA is certainly an improvement over the chaos prior to it. But it does not cover everyone, and we still have for-profit insurance companies hiking up healthcare costs beyond what most Americans can afford.

I have the impression that the administrative costs with the European single payer systems are lower than the administrative costs with our for-profit system.

I doubt that a single provider system would work well in the US. The needs of urban and rural populations when it comes to healthcare are very different.

Here we have Kaiser insurance which is the closest approximation to the European systems that I know of here. We like it very much. The doctors are not overly involved in trying to work through the paperwork and administrative details. Single payer makes it much easier for doctors in that respect. That in itself saves a lot of money.

I have no idea how our doctors, our sole practitioners, deal with the maze of different insurance company requirements, limitations, paperwork, etc. It must be a nightmare.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
21. Maybe you didn't pay attention in France? Patients pay 30% there
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:47 AM
Nov 2015

Actual zero-cost-at-delivery is very, very rare.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
3. Eegads! Look what happens when a state legalizes weed. Acting downright sensible
Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:56 PM
Nov 2015

and voting in their own best interests.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
4. It looks like we're going to have to do everything from the ground
Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:10 PM
Nov 2015

That suits me fine- the "Gods" can watch as their temples decay and we move on without them.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
7. I find it amusing that colorado is leading on this and MJ
Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:12 PM
Nov 2015

I lived there for 15 years and it's always seemed like a majority red state to me. Maybe it's changed a lot since I left.

DavidDvorkin

(19,479 posts)
13. Historically, Colorado has been a middle-of-the-road state
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:35 AM
Nov 2015

With occasional swings to left or right. It's been somewhat to the left, in general, for quite a few years.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
16. Colorado Springs give Colorado a bad rap.
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:43 AM
Nov 2015

Colorado, imo, has been super reflective of the country as a whole, demographically speaking. Liberal Boulder and Denver, super conservative Colorado Springs, Latino Pueblo.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
8. This will be a battle, but I'm ready to fight it...
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:29 AM
Nov 2015

Employees and employers will pay a payroll tax. Of course, it's a flat tax, like SS and Medicare, and it's capped too, so contributions from the rich are capped... is that just all American bullshit or what? Capital gains are taxed at 10%, so that's good.

Despite my issues with this, I want it to pass. We desperately need a state to do this, and I'm happy for mine to be the first, as with ending pot prohibition. Also, it might get the rabid right wingers to leave the state. I thought the pot would do it, but they're still here.

Response to Eugene (Original post)

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. It will surprise me if 10% of payrolls is enough money
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:48 AM
Nov 2015

That gets you $12 billion, which for the 5 million Coloradans gets you about $2400 per person in health care spending. Nationally we're currently spending about $5200 per person, or significantly more than twice that. That's going to be hard to make work.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
24. Indeed. Math can be problematic
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:19 AM
Nov 2015

As is being found out with Obamacare. If there are no efforts to control costs, none of these ideas will work.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
25. Is that supposed to be for the entire population?
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:47 PM
Nov 2015

Would that amount also cover people on Medicaid and Medicare? I don't know how that would work. If people are already on another Federal plan, would they have to be covered under Colorado's plan? Maybe this plan is for the non-Medicaid, non-Medicare crowd.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
27. Fair question. Let me see what I can dig up
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:05 PM
Nov 2015

Assuming Medicare and Medicaid aren't affected that becomes a much more realistic number.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
15. Good for them
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:55 AM
Nov 2015

I'm glad they got it on the ballot and hope they have success passing it. While a piecemeal solution is not the best one, it could eventually push Congress to make universal coverage available to all states. It certainly will be a tough fight.

forthemiddle

(1,381 posts)
22. Won't you still need a private plan
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:55 AM
Nov 2015

Won't you still need a private plan if you travel out of state.
Also I work out of my home for a company based in Ohio, would they also pay this tax.

I will be interested to see the logistics of it all. I also don't see 10% covering it unless costs are reigned in.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
26. I hope the system they ahve created will pass and prove successful.
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:55 PM
Nov 2015

Vermont proved that this is not an easy thing to implement.

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