ACLU backs policy to allow student to participate in sports based on gender identity

[Omaha Steve]

Last edited Thu Oct 29, 2015, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Omaha World Herald

By Paul Hammel

LINCOLN — The battle lines are emerging over how the state should handle transgender students who want to participate in high school sports.

This week, the American Civil Liberties Union of Nebraska urged the adoption of a policy that allows students to participate in sports based on the gender they identify with.

That is a much different approach than advocated by the Nebraska Catholic Conference and the Nebraska Family Alliance, who have asked that students participate on sports teams based on the gender on their birth certificate.

Transgender students are those who identify with a gender different than their sex at birth.

FULL story at link.

Read more: http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/aclu-backs-policy-to-allow-student-to-participate-in-sports/article_cd2ee2ba-79e9-505f-a106-182a4701b0a5.html

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Before commenting you should read this story from Sept 21: NSAA to tackle guidelines after transgender students express interest in playing high school sports: http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/nsaa-to-tackle-guidelines-after-transgender-students-express-interest-in/article_645b481d-b9e0-5615-a125-790ea354c5c5.html

[Rond Vidar]

1. Depending upon the sport, I don't see this being a problem. But what about (for instance) football?

Should a 6' 2" 230 lb.student who is physically male but identifies as female be able to play on the girl's team?

What about wrestling?

[elljay]

4. How do we determine?

This is a tricky issue. Sports have been divided up into Male/Female categories at least in part because of the physical differences between the genders. Imagine Bruce Jenner competing in the Olympics in the women's division, as Caitlin, but with most of the physical abilities of a male. That would be as unfair as permitting women to take male hormones to increase their performance (remember all those East German female athletes from the 70s?) I don't have the answer, but we need to find some fair way to accommodate people with different gender identities without damaging the hard-fought gains that women have made in sports.

[AngryAmish]

5. Virtually every elite female athlete takes performance enhancing drugs

Same as men. If there is money in it people will cheat. It is human nature.

[LisaL]

10. In what sport is that not going to be a problem?

Basketball, volleyball, soccer, running, swimming, etc. Males outperform females in these sports. So how are biological females going to compete with a biological male? It's not going to be a fair competition.

[Rond Vidar]

20. Hm. Target shooting? Curling?

I'll admit, it's a challenge to come up with such sports now that I consider it.

[24601]

17. A few years ago, Culver Academies had a girl who wrestled on the boys team. Her opponents were only

boys (there was no girl's wrestling team) and her Freshman year record was something like 52-2. As a Sophomore, she was the first girl to go to the Indiana state finals.

Culver is in Northern Indiana.

http://articles.wsbt.com/2012-02-18/first-female-wrestler_31073699

[EL34x4]

18. Yes, there will be accounts

of girls excelling on boy's teams or transgender men on men's teams but for the most part, I believe this issue is going to have a far greater impact on women's sports.

[24601]

19. I agree. The average biological male will outperform an average biological female in most sports.

If budgets or rules limit team sizes, this would close off opportunities for biological females. The issue becomes whether that is acceptable if it is the cost of allowing each individual compete in their chosen gender identification.

It's far less likely that biological females self-identifying as males will push males off teams.

So how do you balance this? My fuzzy recollection decades ago was that in international competitions like the Olympics used the chromosome standard. But of course that discriminates against the female trapped in a male body.

[EL34x4]

21. Since 2004, IOC rules have allowed for transgender athletes.

The rules are pretty strict. The International Olympic Committee requires that competitors have completed sex reassignment surgery, been legally recognized as their preferred gender, and undergone hormone therapy for at least two years to "minimize any gender-related advantages." The requirements include completed genital reconstruction surgery, something I understand few transgender people go through with.

I do not know if any transgender athletes have competed in the Olympics, but they are allowed to provided they meet the above criteria.

Interestingly enough, at one time the IOC did perform a "gender test" on athletes (including a gynecological exam) out of suspicions that communist countries were disguising male athletes as females.

[LisaL]

22. But ACLU doesn't seem to care whether transgender female

had taken any hormones, or had any surgeries. Apparently ACLU believes that if biological man identifies as a woman, he should be able to compete as a woman.

[McCamy Taylor]

2. I foresee a WHOLE bunch of suddenly transgendered female basketball players.

Because if boy can become girls and then play on a girl's basketball team, they will do it. Kids have done weirder things to get onto teams---like deliberately failing grades so that they will be bigger and stronger when they get to high school.

[AngryAmish]

6. College scholarships.

There is a lot of money in college scholarships. 4 years free ride to Northwestern is about 300k.

[EL34x4]

12. Yep. Opportunists who take advantage of the rules for personal gain.

Not every transgender athlete will be sincere in their gender identification. I assume most will, but others will not.

How to weed the insincere out will be an issue, particularly since the criteria for being accepted as transgender is nothing more than self-identifying as such. If you say you are, you are, and that's that.

[LisaL]

13. Even if the athlete is sincere, it still doesn't change the fact that

a transgender female will have a biological body of a male.

[EL34x4]

15. So where do we as a society draw the line?

Or do we draw a line?

Yes, there is a chance that transgender athletes will displace cisgender athletes, particularly in women's sports, women's college athletic scholarships, etc. The difficulties over this subject are compounded by the fact that the impact will be felt almost exclusively on women's sports. I can't think of many scenarios where transgender men will want to participate (and excel) in men's athletics.

So there are two roads we can take:

If we are to further transgender rights in this country, perhaps cisgender females will have to make sacrifices, give up some spots on the team.

Or we draw the line and discriminate against transgender people.

We can't have it both ways.

If you can think of a compromise, I'm all ears.

[LostOne4Ever]

23. There it is

[Dale Scott]

3. Well if the Nebraska Catholic Conference is opposed

I stand with the ACLU.

Actually, do away with the entire Title IX debacle and just let everybody compete as they feel fit.

[EL34x4]

16. And this will be the death knell of women's athletics.

Coaches want to win. It is good for job security. It is good for their bank account.

If we do away with Title IX and let everybody compete as they feel fit, who do you think coaches are going to put on the team? Who will be sitting on the benches?

[xocet]

7. How would this have worked as a policy had someone like Caitlyn Jenner been allowed to participate

in a present-day women's decathlon?

The highest women's score is currently 8,366.
The highest men's score is currently 9,045.

Jenner's top score is equivalent to 8,634 by current scoring tables.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decathlon_world_record_progression

Apparently, scoring is done differently, so these scores cannot be directly compared. The modern scoring tables are here:

http://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=53f7d332-be0c-434c-8467-1d9078966147.pdf&urlslug=IAAF%20Scoring%20Tables%20for%20Combined%20Events

To what extent, should sexual dimorphism (controversial as noted below) be considered?

Sexual Dimorphism

Sexual dimorphism is the systematic difference in form between individuals of different sex in the same species.

...

Sexual dimorphism in humans is the subject of much controversy. Human male and female appearances are perceived as different, although Homo sapiens has a low level of sexual dimorphism compared with many other species. The similarity in the sizes of male and female human beings is a good example of how nature often does not make clear divisions. To give an accurate picture of male and female size differences one would need to show how many individuals there are in each size category. There is a considerable overlap.

For example, the body masses of both male and female humans are approximately normally distributed. In the United States, the mean mass of an adult male is 78.5 kg, while the adult female mean is 62.0 kg. However the standard deviation of male body mass is 12.6 kg, so 10% of adult males are actually lighter than the female average.

...

http://www2.nau.edu/~gaud/bio300b/sexdi.htm

Does the above policy address this sort of an issue in any fashion?

[LisaL]

11. Since Jenner could win against males, if he was competing as a female, certainly biological

females wouldn't stand a chance.

[maddogesq]

8. I shouldn't make light of this, but I thought of a song.

Sorry...

"My basketball coach done kicked me off the team."

On a more serious note, the NCAA will have it's hands full figuring this out in the years to come.

"

[LisaL]

9. Transgender female will still have a biological body of a male.

So how is that fair to biological females? I don't see them winning in that competition.

[FLPanhandle]

14. Good way to piss off and/or discourage female athletes.

Now they have fewer slots on teams and are less likely to win at sports.