Bodies of at Least 20 Thought to Be Migrants Are Found in Truck in Austria

[IDemo]

Source: New York Times

VIENNA — The partly decomposing bodies of at least 20 people assumed to be migrants being smuggled across Europe were found in a truck abandoned on a highway east of Vienna on Thursday, the police said.

The death toll could be as high as 50, said Hans-Peter Doskozil, director of police in the eastern state of Burgenland, speaking at a news conference live on the public broadcaster.

Mr. Doskozil said the bodies, some of which had started to decompose, had been discovered when the truck was opened after the police noticed it parked off the highway that links Budapest and Vienna. He declined to give further details.

He said the Austrian police had contacted the authorities in neighboring Hungary, which has been a stop for migrants surging north from Turkey and Greece through the Balkans to central and northern Europe.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/world/europe/bodies-austria-truck-migrant-crisis.html?_r=0

[EL34x4]

1. Authorities now believe they all suffocated.

I suspect the driver discovered his passengers had all perished, left his truck on the side of the road and got the hell outta Dodge.

[Blue_Tires]

3. The nation of origin wasn't stated

You realize the vast majority of EU migrants don't come from Syria/Libya, so save that meme for someone who might believe it

[EL34x4]

4. According to this BBC article from last week,

The majority are coming from Syria. And while Libyans themselves aren't fleeing in large numbers, Libya has become the departure point for many sub-Saharan Africans where chaos has given traffickers freedom to exploit migrants.

"Why is EU struggling with migrants and asylum?"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24583286

At any rate, it has turned into a humanitarian disaster and it is going to be very difficult for Europe to absorb the massive numbers of immigrants landing upon their shores.

[Blue_Tires]

12. "many" doesn't mean "all", or even "most"

And why do the Serb, Croats, Macedonians and Hungarians get to pass them all en masse to the next neighboring country without absorbing a few?

[EL34x4]

22. Migrants don't want to settle in Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia or Hungary

They want to go to Britain, France, Germany, Sweden and Denmark.

[LeftyMom]

23. Poverty, instability, batshit politics.

Absorbing refugees in any significant numbers requires the stability to meet their needs and an economy that can absorb them. Oh, and the ability to keep the local mouth breathers from killing them, which rules Hungary right out because Jobbik.

[tabasco]

6. Yes, NATO is evil for attacking the peace-loving ISIS!

You are so wise and well-informed!

[pampango]

7. Yeah, Syria is all NATO's fault. Let's not blame Mr. Assad. He had every right to continue

his family's royal rule over Syria. When his people took to the street in 2011 (and of course oligarchs always think that 'his' people protesting must be the result of outside influences; they just love him) he thought "Hey. I've got this great big army and air force. Why should I go anywhere?"

I do agree with you that these people are refugees from a horrible civil war. We do not have to agree on how it started or why it continues but they deserve to be treated like the war refugees that they are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. No, the terrorist attack in Tunisia was not due to NATO's destabilization of Libya

I hope that helps. And few of the refugees are from Libya - they just travel through it:

In 2014, detections in the Central Mediterranean area reached a staggering level. More than 170 000 migrants arrived in Italy alone, representing the largest influx into one country in European Union history. Many migrants departed from Libya, where the lack of rule of law and basic law enforcement allow smuggling networks to thrive. Syrians and Eritreans were the top two nationalities, but numerous Africans coming from Sub-Saharan regions also use this route.

http://frontex.europa.eu/trends-and-routes/central-mediterranean-route/

The Syrian crisis was not caused by NATO. There was an uprising by people who objected to Assad's authoritarian rule, and Islamist groups attracted outside help, and al Qaeda and ISIS gained territory. NATO has, on the whole, held back from taking sides between Assad and the Islamists; they've given some help to the non-Islamist rebels, but they are some of the weakest fighters there now.

[pampango]

14. You sure shifted off of Syria quickly. I understand why but I'll play.

I viewed Gaddafi as a brutal dictator. (One among many, unfortunately.) Juan Cole has singled out Gaddafi and Assad as the worst of the worst in terms of the brutality of their rule. According to Cole, Gaddafi intentionally did not promote the development of civil society so that everything revolved around him and him alone. That both improved his control of the country but should have made people worry that, if he were deposed, chaos would ensue. That was the standard set by Louis the XV, "Après moi, le déluge". Gaddafi was successful in that regard.

I certainly do not blame any people anywhere who tire of living with no rights under a dictator. I like to think that I would have been in the streets, too. Most liberals believe that all people have an inherent right to have a say in how they are governed. People dedicated to overthrowing dictators often don't spend much time, though perhaps they should, thinking about what bad things might happen once their strongman is gone.

Were those people, who are now refugees, better off with Ghaddafi as the leader of their country?

I would love to have them be asked that question. Their answer may be "We would trade freedom (and the chaos that has ensued) for the security of life under Gaddafi."

Did NATO have anything to do with the loss of their homes and lives?

Of course it did. When the United Nations authorized intervention in Libya under the Responsibility to Protect Doctrine, NATO became the vehicle to implement the decision. NATO did not act unilaterally.

As bad as Libya has been, is anyone arguing that Syria, where the UN did not act, is any better off?

Or how about the terrorist attack in Tunisia that killed 38 Brits, was that not due to NATO's destabilization of Libya? Help me out here?

Oh I think Gaddafi was very good for the West. He maintained 'law and order' in Libya. The West loves 'law and order' at the expense of local people because it is good for business. Gaddafi sold his oil mostly to Europe. He even an agent of the EU which paid him billions to stop the flow of illegal immigrants crossing the Mediterranean and he was very good at it. I bet many conservatives in the EU wish Gaddafi or another dictator were back in control of Libya to stem the flow of refugees and migrants through there. He was very useful to Europe and the West in general.

And what about the Kurds that we re now allowing Turkey to bomb and kill. Will you also make excuses when they start showing up in Europe as refugees from that war?

I do not support the policy. And I am not making 'excuses' for anyone.

Refugees are refugees without excuses or rationalizations. No matter how a war started or why it continues. REFUGEES ARE REFUGEES. Politics does not matter. I thought we agreed on that.

On the topic of Syria, here is something I posted back in 2012:

The "Assad" strategy for dealing with massive protests is something all dictators should learn.

1: When massive peaceful protests occur, repress them as them as violently as you can get away with - snipers, arrests, torture, etc.
2. This may work to quell the protests. If so, reward your military and security services and go back to being a dictator.
3. If #1 doesn't work right away and massive peaceful protests continue, keep up the repression. (You have to come up with a strategy to keep the international community at bay.) Start talking about the presence of "criminal gangs" or "terrorists" among the protestors. There may not be any yet, but it's good to get the talking point out there for future use.
4. If your military and security forces continue to prove to be ineffective in suppressing dissent, don't worry. Keep up the armed repression. Eventually frustration will build up among factions of the protesters and some will become willing to resort to violence given the apparent futility of peaceful protest. Or outside groups will begin to take advantage of these frustrations.
5. At this point you can unleash your military and security forces to the full extent and hope you don't lose the civil war you have created.

I think this is a strategy that is workable in many repressive countries when populations get fed up with living with no rights.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=378947

[pampango]

17. I can't keep up with the "poor dictator Assad" was a victim

of circumstances or conspiracies beyond his control. What's a poor dictator to do?"

I don't feel sorry for any king or dictator, Syrian, Saudi or any other nationality, who inherits absolute power from his father then has his people rise up against him.

Having posted all this I am not defending the Assad regime, what I am pointing out is that the country and the people were better off previously. Surely, you are not arguing that they are better off now, are you?

Of course not. Surely you do not blame people who rebel against a repressive government.

Surely you and I do not want American liberals to support repressive governments in other countries in the interest of 'stability'. If you do, I hope neither of us is ever caught living in a country with a repressive government that is aided and abetted by liberals in the West.

I lived in the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos, a US-supported dictator. He was good at providing 'stability' and 'law-and-order' not nearly so good at avoiding operating a police-state with a large military and all-powerful security service.

I hope we agree that refugees are refugees. They are not 'your' problem or 'my' problem, they are 'our' problem. They are not 'good' refugees or 'bad' refugees, they are people escaping horrible conditions.

BTW, I have no more sympathy for the king/dictator in Saudi Arabia than I do the one in Syria.

[geek tragedy]

18. Hmmm, can't tell if this poster

reminds me more of Hannah Bell or Go West Young Man.

[geek tragedy]

21. Hmm, now leaning towards the latter. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Hard to tell where decomposing bodies are from

You don't know why they were travelling, so 'migrants' is an appropriate term.

[AtomicKitten]

10. OMG that's horrific.

[Tom28]

13. Third world immigration to the first world is universal.

This is due in part to the karma of the first world, which has exploited and attacked the third world to the point where life for many there is unlivable.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. Migrant crisis: Austria lorry held more than 70 bodies

Austrian officials now say the bodies of more than 70 people, thought to be migrants, were in an abandoned lorry found on a motorway on Thursday.

They originally estimated that between 20 to 50 people died in the vehicle, found near the Hungarian border.
...
The local police chief said it appeared those in the vehicle had been dead for one-and-a-half to two days.

The victims were probably already dead when the vehicle crossed into Austria from Hungary, authorities said. It is unclear how they died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337

[Recursion]

25. Death toll now 71

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/28/europe/migrant-crisis/

Oy

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Four arrests over Austria lorry deaths

Hungarian police say they have arrested four people over the discovery of the bodies of 71 migrants, thought to be Syrian, in a lorry in Austria.

Three of those arrested are Bulgarian and one is Afghan.

The victims included 59 men, eight women and four children who are thought to have been dead for about two days.
...
Officials said the victims probably died after suffocating in the vehicle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337