Suspected brisket thief dies after shot by Central Texas police at H-E-B

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Houston Chronicle

Suspected brisket thief dies after shot by Central Texas police at H-E-B
By Joshua Fechter
Updated 3:03 pm, Wednesday, August 12, 2015

A 48-year-old man shot by Waco police Tuesday after allegedly drawing a knife on officers and an H-E-B died Tuesday night, according to media reports.

Randall Lance Hughes was accused of trying to steal $80 worth of brisket from an H-E-B in Waco, KXXV reported.

Police first used a Taser on the suspect, a 48-year-old white man, after he pulled the knife and struggled with officers while being detained in the store's security room, Waco Police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton told The Waco Tribune-Herald.

Officers "attempted to taze the suspect but it had no affect," the Waco Police Department wrote in a Facebook post. "Our officers were forced to discharge their weapons in defense of their lives."

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/local/article/Suspected-brisket-thief-shot-by-Central-Texas-6440054.php

[lonestarnot]

1. What in the hell is an HEB? sounds like something Waco would dream up.

[BillZBubb]

2. H.E.B. is a Texas grocery chain.

It's founder was Henry E. Butts. H.E.B. makes very generous donations to the republican party.

[lonestarnot]

5. Yeah, that splains it.

[drm604]

6. He pulled a knife on a grocery store?

I guess I should read the article.

Edited to add: Okay, it think it's a typo in the article. Instead of saying "after allegedly drawing a knife on officers and an H-E-B" it probably should say "after allegedly drawing a knife on officers at an H-E-B".

[Jane Austin]

16. Weird.

I always thought the Butts were good Demcrats.

They sure have some good stores. Significantly cheaper than other local chains and they will build right across the street from a Walmart and thrive.

[Zen Democrat]

20. Howard E. Butt, Sr. was the Texas Grocery King. They've always been associated with Democrats

Worked for JFK, LBJ. The family is close to Bill Moyers.

http://news.muckety.com/2008/02/27/the-butt-family-texas-grocery-kings/912

Now that EVERYTHING in Texas has gone crazy, HEB probably has to pay the piper too. But they have always been a great family of philanthropists battling world hunger and supporting Democratic causes.

[bmbmd]

22. He was at Baylor when my Uncle Allen was.

HEB had a girl friend named "Rusty", and she spurned his affections lest she become "Rusty Butts".

[Paladin]

36. And it's a first-rate grocery store, as well.

My family has been shopping at H.E.B's for generations.

[Frank Cannon]

44. It is a great regional chain.

Everyone in central TX loves H-E-B.

[unblock]

28. we always referred to him as "harry".

which, in my mid-western accent, sounds the same as hairy.

[Brother Buzz]

41. Let me guess, they were out of Butt Roasts so the thief went for the brisket

[Sunlei]

49. I love HEB, they hire locals. I see the diversity in their employees. They buy from local growers.

They donate tons of food to food banks and even donate regular, frozen shipping containers of meat to one of my favorite wildlife sanctuaries.

[Dont call me Shirley]

3. Randal...

Waco, scrap that, the USA - The New Dickinsville

[valerief]

4. It makes perfect sense that if they couldn't stop him, they should MURDER him.

Over FUCKIN' BRISKET.

Goddam murderous maniacal police.

[christx30]

9. He wasn't shot over brisket.

He was stopped for trying to steal the brisket. He was shot because he pulled a knife on the cops, as anyone else would.
Anyone with a gun would shoot anyone else that pulls a knife on them. A cop especially would.

[Judi Lynn]

11. He was carrying a huge blob of brisket and he still had hands to grab a knife?

It's not as if we aren't more than completely aware cops have been lying about their victims being armed from the first.

It's a tradition.

Please don't try to get haughty here. There was no excuse for this shooting.

[christx30]

19. I'm not being haughty.

I'm being sincere.
He was stealing something very expensive. It doesn't matter what it is, the store is going to call the police. If I stole a $20 bag of rock salt or a $12 bag of dog food, the store would call the police. The police would tell me to put down the thing I was stealing, and would arrest me for the attempted theft. That's what they do. And if I resisted arrest, they would use force to get my cooperation. If I used violence to resist arrest, they will respond with violence to protect themselves.
The police are there to enforce the law.
This guy broke the law. He took something that didn't belong to him. He could have just cooperated with the police, allowed himself to be arrested and fight it in court, if he felt he was wronged.
This isn't one of those "unarmed guy gets shot by racist cop" stories. This is a "criminal gets killed for threatening the police" story.
I know it's crazy, but I believe in paying for something I want, rather than just taking it.
I guess that's how I've managed to stay out of jail and not get shot by the police.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Sorry, it's still dead wrong to kill him. No attempt to rationalize it can change this.

You don't get a Nobel Prize for never having stolen anything, either.

[christx30]

40. I'm not expecting one.

My point is that this is exactly why we have police.
So thieves get arrested for their crimes. If they didn't, we'd always have to worry about people stealing our shit, and we wouldn't be able to do anything else.
Also, grocery stores would have to introduce new rules like "From now on, only 5 people will be allowed in the store at a time. Also, we're quadrupling prices to pay for what we lose because we don't have the cops to protect our stuff any more."
This isn't Trayvon Martin. This isn't Michael Brown. This isn't an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time. This isn't even Eric Garner, a person violated a stupid, petty law, and paid with his life. This is a guy that goes into a grocery store, is caught stealing, violently resists arrest, and is killed for his crime. It's a story as old as the Code of Hammurabi. He'd be alive if he had paid for that brisket. Or if he just put it down and let the cops arrest him, and went to trial, the same thing that happens to thousands of Texans every week.

[valerief]

15. He was MURDERED over brisket. If the cops couldn't stop him, they should

have let him go. They shouldn't have tased him at all. He wouldn't have pulled a knife and they wouldn't have their reason for COMMITTING MURDER.

Brisket is not worth a tase or MURDER.

[erronis]

18. But he might have bludgeoned them with the brined flank!

I know I get a bit crazy when I think about chomping down on some corned beef. The police knew what they were up against.
</sarcasm>

[valerief]

21. The police knew what they were BLOODTHIRSTY to do.

Damn, the older I get the more I can't tolerate violent morons with badges.

[christx30]

23. He wasn't murdered over a brisket.

If a cop tells you to stop, and you don't, you're commiting a crime. If you're stealing, you're commiting a crime. If you pull a knife on a cop, you're commiting a crime.
And if people are able to get away with stealing, the stores are going to respond by limiting the number of people in the store at any time, and/or quadrupling prices.

[valerief]

24. Okay, he was MURDERED over STEALING a BRISKET. That's WRONG, WONG, WRONG. nt

[christx30]

34. If someone stole from you, and threatened you,

what would you do? Would you let the guy go? Would you call the police, if the value of the stolen items was enough? If it was your car?
And what if the guy said "I don't want to give back the stuff, or go to jail." what does a cop do? "Ok. Have a nice day, sir."
If you wouldn't call the police, why SHOULDN'T anyone steal from you?
I don't get paid for another week, so my family is going to live on Mac n cheese and ramen (I found some change in my couch). I'd love a brisket. But I'm not going to steal it, because I don't want to go to jail.

[valerief]

59. I would not MURDER someone for stealing a BRISKET if I were grocery food chain. nt

[christx30]

70. Would you attempt to stab someone

if you were trying to steal from a grocery store chain, and got caught?

[Lee-Lee]

65. He attempted to murder for a brisket and was shot for it

If you pull a knife on anybody, cop or not, and get killed for doing it you were not murdered- you were stopped before harming or murdering someone else.

He wasn't murdered for a brisket. He pulled a knife and was threatening to use deadly force while stealing it and was killed on account of that.

[OnlinePoker]

30. There are other ways to do it.

Here's how they do it in Britain. About 30 seconds in you see (after the guy has been tackled) a weapon the cops have called an A.S.P. baton. These extend the reach of the cops and they can slap at the arm of the attacker causing them to drop the knife. I had training in the military with them and they're very effective.

[ladjf]

51. I don't agree with your statement that "anyone else would" have pulled a knife. nt

[christx30]

55. I didn't say anyone else would have pulled a knife.

I said that anyone else would defend themselves if someone else would pull a knife on them.
Started out as just stolen property. But once he pulled the knife on the cop, it became a very different case.

[ladjf]

58. Excuse me. I misunderstood your meaning. nt

[Throd]

46. Why are you focusing on the brisket and not the knife?

[msongs]

7. and why is a police department posting such information on a place like facebook? nt

[LiberalElite]

10. The NYPD decided to tweet

but it had an unexpected result: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610791/EpicFail-Friendly-NYPD-Twitter-outreach-backfires-spectacularly-users-spread-images-police-brutality.html

#EpicFail: 'Friendly' NYPD Twitter outreach backfires spectacularly as users spread images of police brutality

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610791/EpicFail-Friendly-NYPD-Twitter-outreach-backfires-spectacularly-users-spread-images-police-brutality.html#ixzz3iePqR293
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



Despite the rocky start last year they still tweet though.

[PSPS]

8. So, they finally disposed of Jean Valjean

[valerief]

25. Exactly!

[freshwest]

12. How does a taser NOT work? I can't imagine it not working unless the guy was on meth or bath salts.

That seems to make the person immune to pain and give them strength. I'd be whimpering or passed out on the ground, if not dead from the taser itself.

[FSogol]

13. One of the two leads of the taser probably didn't hit him.

The circuit wasn't completed resulting in no shock. Or something like that.

[freshwest]

26. Thanks. Taser combine AC and DC and AC can be lethal.

The article says there is a rash of stealing BBQ for the 'black market.' Never imagined it, not an easy thing to do. People must be desperate for cash.

His family has to be devastated. No video, so we'll never know it all. Unless the store has cams. No background on the person. All the public is left with is a police report and a dead man. PItiful.

BTW, how is your man O'M doing? He doesn't seem to be getting much attention, or at least not at DU. I posted the video of him announcing his run that was inspiring. I know two other DUers who think pretty highly of him.`

[FSogol]

29. Around here, Tide Laundry liquid detergent is the big black market item.

It is used as currency for drug trades and other illegal activity. Don't ask me why.

Yet another pointless death. Very sad.

As for O'Malley, he's jumping from 1% to 7% in some polls (I personally don't trust any poll before Labor day because I don't think the general public is paying any attention.) His campaign should take off after the first debate and he should do fine in some of the early primaries. He has some great grassroots work going on.

[freshwest]

39. I think he'll do well in debates. But my concern, like that for HRC, is his delivery style.

Americans seem to want a 'strong man' in the White House, although the mold may have been broken with Obama ase he appealed to the intellect, IMO. O'Malley and HRC have soft, quiet voices. It appears people want to have someone yell or tell them what to do. I don't see O'M that way, nor have I seen 'charisma' or 'tough guy' from him. I think the electorate has been degraded.

To think voter are satisfied with a blustering Christie and Trump a pontificating Rand, Hucklebee, Perry or Cruz, the venal Walker, Fiora(?), Rubio, Jindal or Bush shows a lack of a moral compass in the electorate, such as the Democratic candidates are displaying.

And the GOP will vote, but it's uncertain Dems will. All the Democrats have good ideas and values but the GOP is appealing to millions.

[okasha]

63. The HEB's in my city have cams. I'm sure they all do.

[freshwest]

64. Then this is not the end of the story. Did they buy out W-D and Randall's?

[okasha]

69. We never had W*D's or Randalls.

They did crowd out Albertson's and Kroger's. Their only competition here now is WalMart and to a very small extent Target.

[valerief]

27. Maybe the truth didn't work. And why should ANYONE be tased over a damn BRISKET??? nt

[metalbot]

43. Out of curiosity, what level of violence would be ok?

Would you be ok with the police tackling him? Hitting him with batons? Tazing seems far more humane and less dangerous than either of those options. I'll take getting tazed any day over getting hit in the head with a stick.

Is there some threshold of value at which it would be appropriate to use force to stop someone? A $200 bluray player? A $900 necklace? A $6000 ring? Someone's pet? Or is it a question of who's property it is? Is it ok to tase someone who has broken into a poor person's home and stolen a brisket that they can't afford to replace, but not ok to tase someone who is stealing the same brisket from a grocery store?

If you are arguing that there is a line in the sand, where is it?

[valerief]

60. NO ONE should be MURDERED over stealing $80 worth of BRISKET. That's INSANE. nt

[metalbot]

61. I'm totally down with that

But the specific post I'm responding to is the one in which you say nobody should be tased for stealing brisket.

If you are suggesting that he was murdered for stealing brisket, that's intellectually dishonest.

Let's examine a hypothetical situation:

I don't mow my lawn. The city sends me a citation. I ignore the citation. The city ultimately sends me a summons to court. I ignore the summons. The city sends a police officer to arrest me for failure to appear. When the police officer arrives, I open the door, brandishing a knife, and am subsequently shot.

Are you arguing that in that hypothetical situation, I've been murdered for not cutting my grass?

[valerief]

62. I don't need to deal with your hypotheticals. NO ONE s/b MURDERED over stealing a BRISKET.

That's WHAT HAPPENED. We don't need to play pretend games or invent straw man arguments. NO ONE s/b MURDERED over stealing a BRISKET.

[Lee-Lee]

66. Tasers have a high failure rate

A taser shoots two barbed electrodes at the end of wires and delivers the shock via the electrodes.

If one electrode misses because the suspect is moving, it fails.

If one electrode doesn't make it to skin, it fails. Thick clothing especially leather or heavy jackets or thick jeans like Carhartt can stop them, if either one hits a belt, buckle, button or item in a pocket it fails.

If a wire breaks it fails.

If a suspect can rip an electrode out it fails.

[freshwest]

67. Maybe it hit the knife? I'd say alleged knife, but the store employees say so, too.

I certainly don't have the knowledge that some do on these things. They need to think of something else, because unless this was 'hand to hand combat' it would seem they could have maintained distance and let the guy give up. Of course, I wasn't there. One of the posters down the thread says the store has cameras, so that will tell the full tale. I hate to think of anyone who died over this. Apparently it wasn't about the beef, which wasn't a meal but to sell, the shooting was about the knife.

[Lee-Lee]

68. A knife in close quarters is dangerous

If the guy was outside and they could maintain a far enough perimeter than you can wait them out possibly.

Indoors the stakes are much higher. A person with a knife can suddenly lunge and cover a few feet and stab someone faster than you can imagine, fast enough that the reaction time of officers to shoot may not be fast enough to stop it, even if hit the person can have enough momentum and ability to still stab someone.

[Historic NY]

14. I guess this is a crime wave product of the month.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/crime/article/San-Antonio-BBQ-joint-hit-in-latest-of-brisket-6098339.php

[freshwest]

38. Whoa! That was a quick theft. But that's been my experience down there. n/t

[FLPanhandle]

17. What idiot pulls a knife on the police?

You want to get shot? Pulling a weapon on the police will do it.

[notadmblnd]

31. more from the link

The Central Texas region has seen a string of brisket thefts in the past several months, some from grocery stores and some from barbecue restaurants.

Augie's BBQ, B & B Smokehouse, The Smoke Shack and Two Bros. BBQ Market all suffered meat thefts in late 2014 and early 2015.

An apparent black market for brisket has popped up in Texas in the face of high meat prices: Austin police arrested James Cordell Avery in January for allegedly stealing $2,000 worth of brisket from at least 19 H-E-B stores and selling the meat to local barbecue vendors.

This is what appears to be going on.

[Reter]

33. The story doesn't add up, because no one would steal a crappy Waco brisket

Now, in NYC on the other hand...

[christx30]

42. Why would someone steal the faceplate off the

radio in my crappy car, even though it would be of absolutely no use to them?
Because it was there.

[seveneyes]

35. shot by Waco police Tuesday after allegedly drawing a knife on officers

Well maybe drawing a knife on law enforcement is a bad plan. Yup, that is the first clue. No?

[Imajika]

45. Not to some people here or part of #blacklivesmatter...

It's getting so ridiculous that I think these people would defend a person who actually shot at police and complain the police fired back killing him/her. In fact I think an incident like that already happened in Ferguson, and the defense was "well the cops shouldn't have been in an unmarked car". As if shooting at the vehicle is at all excusable.

The idea of highlighting ingrained law enforcement double standards and mistreatment of African Americans is worth doing.

But like many movements, this one is spinning out of control and into territory that does more harm than good.

Even making the above statements is considered unspeakable by some.

If you go into a store and steal or rob from it, get caught by police and pull a knife, bat, gun or anything else, expect to be shot down - and with good reason.

[Sunlei]

47. what a horrible shame for police to murder someone over stealing food!

[Throd]

48. It was the knife, not the food, that provoked the shooting.

[Sunlei]

50. no, it was another police over reaction to quickly murder another person.

[Throd]

52. Don't pull a knife on people with guns.

Some police shootings are justified, some are not. This one seems justified at this time.

[Sunlei]

53. No police should back off and follow him. They like to 'push' people so they can murder them.

[Thinkingabout]

54. It would be important for the time of the day, in Texas after dark lethal action can be taken if

someone is stealing your property. Also, by what authorization did this guy have to going into a store and steal merchandise? The merchandise is for sale, not to sell to other businesses. And if the police approach a person and the person pulls a knife, it probably will not end well. He could have given up the stolen merchandise and been arrested, he chose to exert his dominance with a knife, not smart.

[7wo7rees]

56. Waco = Wacko! Not a nice place. This is McClellan Co.

Same place for Crawford, Bush Ranch. Many lawsuits, many settlements. Most recently famous for Sunday afternoon biker brawl at Twin Peaks. That little disaster will probably bankrupt before it is over.

[inwiththenew]

57. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight