Experts: Report shows Sandra Bland may have used pot in jail

[laserhaas]

Last edited Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Associated Press Update - Proper Link

The amount of THC, one of the active components of marijuana, in Bland's system was 18 micrograms per liter, according to the report released Monday. That's more than three times the legal limit for drivers in Colorado and Washington, states that permit the recreational use of marijuana.

Robert Johnson, chief toxicologist at the Tarrant County medical examiner's office in Fort Worth, Texas, told the AP that a THC level as high as Bland's suggests she "either had access to the drug in jail or she was a consistent user of the drug and her body had accumulated THC to the point that it was slowly releasing it over time."

But, Johnson added, "I have never seen a report in the literature or from any other source of residual THC that high three days after someone stops using the drug."

{University of Florida toxicology professor Bruce Goldberger, who reviewed the report for The Associated Press} noted that while chronic users who stop using the drug will have higher concentrations than non- chronic users, "the concentrations do not persist at this level, at least in my opinion." He defined chronic as someone who uses cannabis daily, sometimes repeatedly.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9287eef889d94385bca932a79e247e2c/experts-report-shows-sandra-bland-may-have-used-pot-jail

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Moi has been saying

[font color=white]----------[/font]and sayin.....

[font color=white]-------------------[/font]and Sayin.......


that the only way for Sandra Bland to be "asphyxiated" and show no signs of fighting the strangulation
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is that of Sandy being doped.....
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UPDATE
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Originally, I posted the Fox News retell of AP's story; because Fox failed to link properly from theirs (HERE)

[shraby]

1. Actually, Fox is not a news source.

Another thought:
If she had it in her system like that, she must have been fed it, because the other inmates would have smelled it if smoked.

I'll wait for a more credible source of info.

[laserhaas]

3. It came from AP - but Fox doesn't (properly) link to the AP story

Credible remarks are the ones from "inside" the story - that the amounts are extremely high.

[wildbilln864]

5. exactly! n/t

[JackInGreen]

8. I'd be interested to see if it's

11-hydroxy-thc or a non edible form. Either way, this stinks, and not like chiba.

[laserhaas]

14. JackInGreen - Please explain, in further detail - to us non-tokers

Can edible forms of marijuana cause a person to be so relaxed - that they wouldn't be able to fight a hanging?

Or - for that matter - smoking such heavy amounts?

Can you taste the difference - if put in soup or other foods?

What about drinking such - in liquid form?

[SCVDem]

48. When it's fight or flight

You get straight in a hurry.

A pot high is overridden by adrenalin.

Now about these so called experts.....

[laserhaas]

50. That's my opinion - also. As remarked in my comments below and elsewhere

the attempt at asphyxiation would immediately halted - once she started facing the real reality of it all.

Now way she could be SO depressed (even if Texas A&M told her she was going to lose the job) - that she'd go through it.

NO WAY!

And - reality is that (even if she was determined) her body would have instinctively (involuntarily) convulsed, gagged etc.

This is why we need REAL expert analysis.

[laserhaas]

113. MOI wants to know if they did DNA swabs of the purported hang noose

and other tests (see if a party utilized gloves)

This is a current pic from DailyMail UK - of the jail cell hanging noose

[cstanleytech]

12. Its an Associated Press press story unless fox has taken to to posting

"Associated Press" above every article on their site.

[laserhaas]

7. Stop hating the source - and LOOK at the dam fact I posted from within the story

The message more important than the quote by a national news outlet - of an AP story

is the fact that Fox News is telling the FACT of extremely high levels.

SANDY was POISONED

[Fred Sanders]

9. The source is a cesspool of propaganda...why should we have to sort through such a source?

I get your point about the facts being the facts.....but not from Fox, which often sources AP and then modifies the story to fit their agenda.

And....what difference does it make? Marijuhana is not a catalyst for suicide, but it is for a smear campaign.

And the measurement of micrograms per litre is for urine, not blood:

"Blood Tests

Unlike urine tests, blood tests detect the active presence of THC in the bloodstream. In the case of smoked marijuana, THC peaks rapidly in the first few minutes after inhaling, often to levels above 100 ng/ml in blood plasma. It then declines quickly to single-digit levels within an hour. High THC levels are therefore a good indication that the subject has smoked marijuana recently. THC can remain at low but detectable levels of 1-2 ng/ml for 8 hours or more without any measurable signs of impairment in one-time users. In chronic users, detectable amounts of blood THC can persist for days. In one study of chronic users, residual THC was detected for 24 to 48 hours or longer at levels of 0.5 - 3.2 ng/ml in whole blood (1.0 - 6.4 ng/ml in serum) [Skopp and Potsch].

Note: THC blood levels can be measured in two ways. Most labs used by U.S. law enforcement report levels based on concentration in whole blood, but others report concentration in blood serum or plasma instead. Concentrations in whole blood are about half as high as those in serum/plasma. Therefore 0.5 - 3.2 ng/ml in whole blood = 1.0 - 6.4 ng/ml in plasma or serum. Unless otherwise stated, whole blood concentrations are reported here."

I think the tests were blood test and the levels being confused with urine tests.

Also, Marijuhana for a regular user can be detected in blood for up to 7 days for a regular user, put to 100 in urine.

[laserhaas]

32. Fred - THE source is actually AP - Fox is just the ONLY link I can find to the AP story

Would gladly change it all - if someone can find me the original AP

when I tried to query AP - it didn't come up (even better story if Fox made up an AP thingy)

Point is - we are turning faux on its head....

they are trying to say she was a heavy drug user

and we are pointing out the REAL issue of their (reported) facts

[JackInGreen]

10. Not to take away from your point

but poisoned is not the most apt term in any instance like this.

[laserhaas]

16. Definition of Poison is The Most Apropos - it totally explains how Sandy was murdered

poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.

[JackInGreen]

17. But it didn't....

even in large edible doses there are no records or reports, no evidence that anyone, anywhere, has ever been poisoned to death by pot or 'overdosed' in any way without mixing with stronger substances. If the pot was at all responsible for her death, it was as a sedative to allow them to string her up and write it off as 'pot head committed suicide, no loss'. I agree with the first statement, last of your OP, she was doped. I'll insist, poison is the wrong word.
(and really, arguing about it is moot, the supposed levels of THC in her bloodstream have little to nothing to do with her arrest, the racist shitbag that hauled her out of her car, or the institutional racism that this town calls it's heritage)

[laserhaas]

19. NOT poisoned To DEATH - Just enough toxic poisoning to make one IMPAIRED

Much easier to hang someone in an induced state (likely getting someone to walk off a ledge) -

than totally sober.

[JimDandy]

64. Legally it is poisoning.

In Colorado, some teen, unbeknownst to his teacher and classmates, gave tbem brownies laced with marijuana. They became woozy, spacey, nauseated and sick from the effects of the MJ and some went to emergency rooms. One of the criminal charges against the teen was poisoning.

[laserhaas]

66. Many of us often misconstrue terms and/or coin of phrases.

My point - all along - (after they said NO signs of struggle)

is that she didn't even struggle with herself.

Facing the knock on heaven's door - the body adrenaline kicks in - and so does panic.

NO F'n way - was Sandy SO severely depressed - that she would face death - quietly....

[Maedhros]

83. So why derail this thread with an argument over source?

It does nothing but distract from the OP's point.

[d_legendary1]

90. Orginally the source came from Fixed News

The poster has since changed the story from Fixed News to the AP article. I'll delete my comments so people don't get confused.

[laserhaas]

93. NO need to do so -

Trust me, I'm used to get produce tossed at me.

It was just so very important - to get my belief that she was poisoned/doped - out there.

With someone of consequence breaking the facts of the possibility, into question.

[d_legendary1]

121. Already did. No worries

As to the story you posted I wonder where she got that much weed. She was going to her dream job in Prairie View A&M and I'm sure they drug test there. No way she she became a rastafarian in jail so the story about her being drugged and murdered has merit.

Thanks for the change. Didn't wanna sound like a hardass but I lose my cool when I see a Fixed News story on the Late Breaking page.

[Eric J in MN]

4. Colorado and Washington state have a ridiculously low

...legal limit for THC while driving.

Saying someone had "more than three times the legal limit for drivers in Colorado and Washington" isn't saying much.

[BillZBubb]

6. Something is really rotten about this.

[laserhaas]

11. That's the whole point. Facts and outcome - DON"T ADD UP - U N L E S S... Sandy was

POISONED! (doped beyond ability to fight back)

[Maedhros]

84. I see your point, but have to pose this question:

Why marijuana? It seems like a very ineffective drug to use to incapacitate someone.

[laserhaas]

94. If it worked - than the "ineffective" argue is moot.

And (IMO) this makes all the logical sense in the world (from the poisoning/doping POV)

They needed something they could explain she utilized/consumed.

An easy sell (if it does indeed succeed at doping one to the point of least resistance)

[Maedhros]

106. I could see it. [n/t]

[blackspade]

13. This marijuana 'issue' is a red herring....

To cover for her false arrest and murder in jail.
Pot is not the cause of her death any more than the breakfast she had the day she was kidnapped by a racist power tripping asshole with a badge.

I wouldn't trust any information coming out of Texas right now.

[wildbilln864]

76. you nailed it! thanks. n/t

[laserhaas]

95. I would argue to the contrary. Weed didn't kill her; but it made her easier to suicide.

The non 'Red Herring' - is the fact that they suppressed this pot issue, until now.

They knew it was going to be discovered by the independent autopsy's -

so they (appear) to have escaped getting "caught" on the issue - by trying to twist the facts to their benefit.


OOPs!

[blackspade]

99. No, the pot issue is being used to demonize her.

It covers for the fact that she should have never been jailed to begin with.
How does pot make it easier to 'suicide' her? Pot can't kill you. And it doesn't incapacitate in the way you seem to think.
Perhaps if you explained your theory......

[laserhaas]

102. Yes... that was Fox News intention; but it is back firing.

If she has a history of use - the family will know (so should arrest records, if it was that morose of an issue)

IMO this is a Smoking Gun.

They didn't report about this issue (even when one local judge was bad mouthing Sandy on his Twitter page) - until they realized it would come out in the independent autopsy(s).

This issue (if the toxicity levels bare out to be - as reported) raises many more issues than what Fox seeks to quash.

[arcane1]

107. How did they force that much pot into her?

[Sunlei]

111. I think her blood test was normal result for average 'user'? the test is to sensitive so authorities

can 'bust' people as "impaired druggies", or fire from job, or refuse food stamps, if they smoked a joint last month.

edit to add, the marijuana test is over sensitive also so media like fox and police can use the test to say, see she deserved to die she was impaired on drugs.

[laserhaas]

116. Yeah... like weed makes you worse than on LSD -

and the first way you desire to get out of jail (even with bail money on the way) - is to hang yourself.

Faux frug sucks.

[Sunlei]

119. fox is just an arm of the republican party and Rs dislike about 50% plus of Americans

republicans dislike about 100% of what are today called 'immigrants' without papers.

So republican-fox can have their perverted, hateful, TV 'fun' with some people busted by their 'hero police'

[Cryptoad]

15. everybody knows....

that ole Mary Jane will make you want to hang yourself......

[DetlefK]

18. The dashcam-vid was edited and this is the toxicology report of the "defective" autopsy. Go figure.

My guess:
There is so much evidence-tampering going on that the cops themselves lost track what's real and what's made up. That's why they want one more autopsy.

[laserhaas]

22. Of that remark - pathological tyrants losing track of what is real

I totally believe.

[Sunlei]

20. maybe they gave her some evidence eatables they seized from one of their car traffic stop searches??

One 'pot cookie' is enough for any person, 2 cookies and one is very loopie- sedated kindoff, for many hours.

[laserhaas]

24. That's the type of facts we need to know 'Sunlei' - Can you put up a GD thread of more details.

Nobody is listening to the common sense premise I've been proffering - that Sandy HAD to be doped up

in order for them to cause the hanging to transpire - without any signs of defensive wounds.

[Sunlei]

27. no I can't my only trip to Colorado, I ate the evidence. sorry.

I didn't want to 'break the law' and bring anything home from vacation.

[laserhaas]

29. HA HA ---- okay

Sooner they make it legal - nationally - the better.

(and I don't use - btw)

[Sunlei]

55. I don't 'use' either. I did want to try legal Co. pot.I can report that 2 treats made me so relaxed,

I had to have an 8 hour sleep and woke refreshed & unimpaired, to a beautiful day.

[Snotcicles]

21. Thom Hartmann mentioned the other day that she refused breakfast the morning of her death. nt

[Sunlei]

25. one doesn't eat and THC stored in body fat is released into blood & stupid pot test picks up.

people are not stoned or impaired at all but the 'test' is rigged to pick it up.

The police 'system' to promotes the "OMG, they had evil marijuana madness and that's why they're DEAD and deserve to be abused and DEAD.

[laserhaas]

28. Why did she refuse breakfast? == Who disclosed such a (purported) fact?

Will the independent investigations - actually do a true - job of investigating?

[Snotcicles]

35. I don't recall who he his source was, he was wondering if her meal the night before

might have been tampered with.

[laserhaas]

37. Again - that's a REAL possibility.... If she new they were tampering with her food

and the effects were being rejected (upsetting her system) - that would explain her saying no to breakfast.

Could also be, from stories that I've heard, jail house food really sucks (Bologna sandwiches, beans, hotdogs and yuck).

Breakfast could have been beans/rice (in TX especially) - and/or Mush (eeewwww)

[Sunlei]

23. or perhaps after 3 full days in jail she was demoralized enough, exausted enough, to want to die.

They killed her, even if they didn't feed her some- police seized evidence.

[laserhaas]

26. I've been researching for a thread on that premise -

It is just ALL so sick and sad....

[cstanleytech]

31. Thats possible but there are possibilities as well and to be fair

one of those other possibilities is that maybe her parents decided not to pay the bond to get her out and it stressed her to the breaking point, another possibility is she became worried that the police might find something or had found something in her car in which case the police would be well advised to go over it with a fine tooth comb assuming they still have it.

[laserhaas]

36. That's the basis of my upcoming GD thread - what happened, possibilities

including the fact that - the reporting of the arrest - might have cost her that new job.

[cstanleytech]

39. I recommend reading the posts by Lee-Lee over here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7012134
Its been interesting to read their perspective as well as their reasoning as to why the officers order to put her cigarette out was actually a lawful order.
Its even causing me to sway in my opinion that the officer should be fired.

[Fred Sanders]

40. Not a "lawful order". anyone with eyes and ears and a mild familiarity with the law that saw the video know that...why do you not?

How can I make it more clear how wrong you are to champion this desperate RW talking point?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027001748

[laserhaas]

44. The purported leap of logic fails Fred. No one is "championing" the RW... In fact I'm doing the

opposite.

Faux wants to paint her as a drug addict - and I'm taking their (reported) facts

and making a much more logical pathway of discussion.

[cstanleytech]

45. I'm not championing any talking points, what I am doing is what I am allowed which is to have

and form my own opinion and newsflash for you that might not be the same as yours and if you dont like that tough shit.

[Fred Sanders]

47. You prefer making excuses for the cop, I prefer justice for Sarah Bland, we all see the difference.

Maybe this will enlighten you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027001748

[cstanleytech]

54. "I prefer justice for Sarah Bland" No, I dont think you do.

I think you are more about causing drama on the forum than anything but hey I could be wrong, in which case I apologize.

[laserhaas]

56. Fred and cstanley - Can't we just get along? No need to get up at each other - We are against THEM

I appreciate opposing points of view.

But let's take the high road.... Yell at me if you will - I've been enduring that for a decade plus now.

Imparting arguments of what in each other's mind isn't good form (and is not licit in a court of law)

Because no one else can ever know what someone else is "thinking".

My point of this thread - was to get the discussion going - on HOW (IMO no question of "if&quot Sandy was doped to be hung (as my remarks in the 2nd part of the thread {above} details)

[cstanleytech]

59. Fair enough.

Oh and laserhaas, I think that might be an Associated Press press story not a story written by fox news.

[laserhaas]

61. Never said it was "written" by Fox

I actually note that it is a Fox link to AP

and I'm updating the thread (partiallY) until someone tells me yes or no - on changing it to AP

[laserhaas]

42. I'm amazed that one would think there'd be a need for further review - on the firing issue.

No matter how you look at it (doctored video or not) - this officer escalated a matter of a "warning" ticket;
and the party in question wound up dead - as a (cause n effect) result.

One party losing his career to send a clear message to all others - to act properly - totally outweighs the needs of the Blue Wall

[KT2000]

80. the order to put out the cigarette

appears to me to be an indication that he had the intention of escalating. He was there to hand her the warning ticket. He could have handed it to her and gone back to his car. He chose to egg her on knowing that she was irritated. He wanted the cigarette out of the way for the altercation he was creating.
He should be fired - what he did was against his police training - he escalated.

[laserhaas]

89. Concur KT2000 - their job is to keep the peace (mitigate)

instead he let his anger disturb the peace (instigate)

And (initially) I thought it was just pissy ego (he asked her a question - she answered - and the answer pointed out how much of a dick he was being..... that is when he made the "put out" request and things got out of control).

If his u-Turn had malice of forethought, I can't believe he would have just presented a "warning" ticket.

Think the anger was (un)righteous indignation (spur of the moment)

and - from there - everything went to hell

[cstanleytech]

109. Well Lee explained that the courts allow officers alot of leeway when it comes a stop like this and

while I agree officer that the officer escalated it I am not 100% sure anymore if they deserve to be fired over it after all its not like a nightstick and just beating on her he just asked her to put out a cigarette.

[msrizzo]

127. That's not the only thing he did.

The police already said that there were several things in his actions that violated their protocol. So maybe, the problem wasn't asking her to put out a cigarette so much as attempting to drag her out of the car and then threatening to "light her up" when he wasn't able to do that and then whatever else he did to her when they were out of the the camera frame. She wasn't arrested for refusing to put out a cigarette so I think you're saying that he didn't deserve to be fired over that is kind of moot.

[cstanleytech]

129. True enough but that is what got the ball rolling with her refusing to comply with

a lawful order according to Lee and its causing me atleast to lean tiny bit towards the not firing him area though I am still leaning about 99% towards firing.

[KT2000]

133. the reason he should be fired

is because he is the one who escalated. No matter what the law may say, he violated police policy which makes him unsuitable for the job. The law would control what someone is criminally liable for but employment relies upon other rules as well. He would not be fired for criminal conduct.He would be fired for not following protocol which had disastrous consequences.

I believe there would be no question he would be fired if he did this to a wealthy white person.

[laserhaas]

134. Correct. If it was Palin's daughter - they'd want him strung up.

Must can this guy - to send a clear message (unless you never want to send any clear message)

[cstanleytech]

136. I am not sure about 100% anymore either now that I have seen the tape a few more times.

I was 100% sure before that he should be fired but after seeing the whole tape I cannot support that anymore.
Why? Because its seems he was pretty calm with her until she refused to put the cigarette out and he seemed pretty civil enough when he asked her to do it like anyone else would be when asking someone to put one out.
Granted her arguing over it was a minor issue and he could have chosen to overlook it but legally? If Lee is right the officer will probably be in the clear because if I understand it correctly now no matter what the alleged provocation is arguing with a police isnt permitted under the law in most states.
Now he might get in trouble for causing the bruise on her back when he arresting her but I kinda doubt he will get in alot of trouble for that since he could claim she resisted arrest which considering the audio on the tape I kinda think she did and struggling with a officer when he is arresting you just seems like a bad choice that will end up with you facing even more charges.
All that aside though that doesnt mean the police department is off the hook for her death because if they knew she had attempted suicide they are probably going to be found negligent for putting her in a cell alone, unmonitored and with a trash bag in a can.

[KT2000]

137. it was before he told her

to put the cigarette out. It was when he said she sounded upset (forgot his exact word) and then after she explained, he said, "Are you through?" At that point he was escalating. It was also then he was preparing for an altercation by telling her to put the cigarette out.
Police training is all about "escalation" and how to prevent it. He did not do that.

[cstanleytech]

138. Well I am not disagreeing with you because yes he probably could have

have done a better job in hindsight but we cannot change the past all we can do is try and learn and not repeat the mistakes we make in life.

[Sunlei]

103. new job was toast. She had a serious Felony charge. First thing in jail is strip Naked for ? to see

[laserhaas]

105. That's one thing that is most disturbing. There's be no PR from the institution

where she was going to work.

[NOLALady]

60. Her Sister agreed to post bond.

[laserhaas]

62. WOW - if that be true NOLALady - there'd be almost no logical reason for the suicide

It would actually point a larger finger to murder - if they knew she was about to get out.

Do you have a link to that quote?

[840high]

79. I've wondered by her parents did

not pay the bail.

[laserhaas]

96. SOmeone in the comments here - said her sister had committed to doing so.

We have to wait for the family to make statements of fact.

[840high]

130. Thanks.

[n8dogg83]

101. Also keep in mind that she had epilepsy and was taking medication for it

up until she got arrested. Thom Hartmann on his show a few days ago mentioned that the list of side effects on the specific drug she was taking (can't remember the name) included thoughts of suicide for those who suddenlty stop taking the drug. Now i dont know about you, but i sincerely doubt they would have allowed her to continue to take the medication she may have had with her. So its likely she went 3 days without medication, including the possibility of her being heavily drugged with marijuana (which can cause alot of paranoia), something smells very fishy to me.

[laserhaas]

30. As for me, I'm hoping Doctor Baden gets involved

or someone of his caliber

[shraby]

38. That's what's needed. An outside investigation with no one from Texas

involved in the investigation.
All the "answers" from the investigation so far raised more questions than they answered.

I'd like to know how she could have "hung" herself. She would have needed a way to get her feet/body clear of the floor. How did she accomplish that?

The amount of mj in her system needs an explanation as she was in there for more than a day.

Were there ligation marks on her neck? Spots on her eyes from strangulation or lack of oxygen? Nothing was mention of any marks or spots.

These questions are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could think of more with a report in front of me.

Just thought of other questions.
What were the contents of her stomach? That's part of an autopsy.
What was under her fingernails? That's part of an autopsy.

[cstanleytech]

41. "She would have needed a way to get her feet/body clear of the floor. How did she accomplish that?"

Actually no her feet could be on the floor as she could have hung herself simply by wrapping one end of the plastic bag around the upper bunk rail and the other around her neck and if she wrapped it properly all she had to do then was allow her body weight to do the rest.
Assuming she did it right it could cut off the flow of blood in her carotid arteries in which case she would have been out like a light in a few seconds

https://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/q-and-a-how-long-does-it-take-for-someone-to-die-from-carotid-artery-compression/

[laserhaas]

46. So - this (scientifically) points to the key question(s)

My 1st opine was - someone dying of "asphyxiation" - would have a convulsion reflex and make very loud noises.

Therefore, I need to know exactly how such should transpire. Your link purports a KEY item - that;

These numbers would also mostly hold true if both carotids were suddenly pressed shut—not easy to do—

[cstanleytech]

49. Not easy but also not impossible it just depends on how she did it.

Photos in this case would have been helpful but I am betting photos were probably the last thing on their minds as they probably panicked and thought "Oh shit we screwed up" and tried to get her down asap to try and revive her.

[laserhaas]

51. My bet is just the opposite.. There was no attempt at reviving.. NONE

even (IF) they didn't do it - they were glad she was dying/dead - and the lawsuit would never materialize.

OOPs!

[cstanleytech]

57. You are forgetting something, remember the sheriff saying they had documents where she admitted to

trying to commit suicide before? Well now those documents will come back to haunt them probably in a negligence lawsuit by her parents and thats probably going to be bigger than any lawsuit she might have had herself because her own actions on the dashcam would have made it difficult for her to win ultimately in court imo.
Her parents though dont have to present the dashcam and can maybe get excluded from being shown or presented as evidence at all because it probably wouldnt be relevant to the police departments negligence. All the parents lawyers probably have to prove is that the department knew she had stated she had made past attempts before and that the department was negligent by not monitoring her and leaving something like a trash bag in her cell from which to hang herself.
So no, I dont see them getting away from a lawsuit.

[laserhaas]

58. That's why moi ended with "OOPs"

The possible plan to assure no lawsuit - possibly assured there would be one.

I've already pointed out (in other threads) that "IF" they're claim on your remarks of attempted suicide are true (there are conflicting reports - already noted) - then the authorities are most certainly to blame, for not putting her on "watch" protocols.

[Lars39]

69. Her right arm was injured in the arrest, could she do all that one-armed?

And was her injured arm her dominant arm?

Questions that need answers...

[laserhaas]

71. Correct Lars39 - Many - M A N Y, questions that need answering

This MJ thingy posses more issues than it (tries) to quash

[laserhaas]

75. A most recent injured arm (if that be the case) would be excruciating

I think that is the least likely though. She would have told her family and friend, if she were in pain.

[tblue37]

81. She told her friend on the phone that she thought her shoulder might be broken. nt

[cstanleytech]

72. Just because someone might have only one arm does not mean a cripple who cannot do anything

and as far I can tell she had two of them even though one might be hurting her a bit.
And yes I am speaking experience as I suffer from a winged shoulder on my right side which causes me intense pain most of the time from my wrist all the way up the arm and around to the area between the shoulders and yet I still manage to do day to day chores.

[Lars39]

73. Doesn't mean she could. A lot of people aren't able to much of anything with non-dominant arm, hand.

Or at least not without quite a bit of practice.

[cstanleytech]

74. It doesnt mean she couldnt either.

Unless it was broken but even then all it would do is slow her down a bit, if they had been monitoring her though they could have stopped her easily.

[Sunlei]

108. what if they 'made her stand' next that metal pole somehow & tied a lg trash bag around her neck to

keep her head secure without leaving marks around her neck. and then she fainted or had a seizure? hands back handcuffed to pole.

I wouldn't put it past some prison police to have 'punishments' for cell prisoners they disliked for some reason.

the police cell evidence photo showed the trashbag in the can!! what trashbag did she "hang herself with"???

[cstanleytech]

112. Thats something they should investigate of course to rule it out

even though there were no signs of a struggle by the medical examiner nor has there been any other evidence as of yet that indicates foul play.
I know they didn't have cameras in the cell she was in but I assume they probably do have a number of them scattered around the jail itself and with them they should be able to do a rough tracking of where the varies officers were around that time to determine if your theory is plausible or not.
As for the trash bag sometimes businesses in the grocery industry will they double line them (overlapping bags one inside another) to make it easier they have to empty once and not have to replace the bag right away so that could be why but a better question is why didnt put someone who admitted to trying suicide under observation? That smacks of negligence imo.

[laserhaas]

114. All good questions - especially when you see the noose

Provided by DailyMail UK - of a local ABC station in Texas

[cstanleytech]

117. Well they should test the bags to see if plausible

to be used in that manner but it depend on two things.
#1 The strength of the plastic that the bags are made of.
#2 The manner in which its been constructed.
I mean hell you can even make rope with plastic bags
http://www.instructables.com/id/very-strong-shopping-bag-rope-no-tools-needed/

[Sunlei]

115. whos the 'they' to investigate? They already stated the last check was against policy, the lazy pol

desk police used the intercom to check on her.

I still think police did something to her, many some things over those 3 days of hell and even if she suicided herself, they drove her to it!

[cstanleytech]

118. FBI and the DOJ are the two main federal agencies who would probable be looking into that

and the state could appoint someone to investigate.

[Sunlei]

120. Think that cell is protected by fbi and doj right now as a crime scene? It will take them years.

and trust police to have changed nothing in that cell they took the 'evidence photo' of several days ago?
the trash bag in the police photo was still in the can

[cstanleytech]

123. No, a trashbag was on the can atleast in photos not in it or atleast

thats what it looks like to me.
It doesnt mean they are lying either if they were double lining the cans like I have seen some places do so they just have to pull the one bag out and not replace it right away but like I pointed out in another post the better question is why did they even leave a person with an alleged past suicide attempt alone in a cell with anything that could be used to kill themselves like in this case a trashbag? Its negligent.

[Sunlei]

125. you. your're right. I think we're on the same page here.

[msrizzo]

128. Speculation is futile but...

...if they were double lining the cans, why not use all the trash bags in the can to make a stronger noose, if she really wanted to kill herself?

[cstanleytech]

132. Why use more if you dont need it or want it?

[notadmblnd]

100. I thought they said she did it with a plastic bag?

[laserhaas]

104. I'm researching the original PR's for my GD thread.

It seems (as pathologicals always do) that the story - keeps changing

[Sunlei]

110. police posted 'cell evidence photo' showed the bag neatly in the wastepaper basket.

[laserhaas]

33. Where's experts like Cheech and Chong -

when you really need them?

[drm604]

52. Here's the AP article.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9287eef889d94385bca932a79e247e2c/experts-report-shows-sandra-bland-may-have-used-pot-jail

As far as I can tell, it's the exact same article as on Fox. I don't like Fox, but they were just running the article straight from the AP, and it's labeled as such on their site. Everyone should stop jumping all over laserhaas about this.

[laserhaas]

53. Is it proper protocol for me to edit the posting and link to AP (instead)?

Not sure about that sort of thingy...

[drm604]

86. I don't make the rules around here, but I don't see why not.

You'd still be linking to the same article. Maybe you could add a note that you changed the link to point to AP rather than Fox but that it's the same article.

[laserhaas]

87. Well... I did the switch --- and we'll see if anyone alerts me of a protocol controlling

Thanks

[ellennelle]

63. could not agree more here

to consolidate most if not all the good points raised:

it she did consume that much, how the hell did that happen IN the jail, exactly?

we assume she was searched and nothing was found; if it had been, they would have also charged her with possession.

therefore, we can only assume it was 'given' to her. given (ahem) she was in her cell alone, the only source would have been staff or official.

or food. most likely this form, because of course, the smell would have been detected by other inmates. and, i suppose we should suppose, by staff and officials. at which point she would have been additionally charged.

so far, all these data points are ones supplied by the 'official story', strung together by, erm, logic.

therefore, the only conclusion that can be drawn here is that she was drugged. and three times the legal limit might be enough to knock her into a deep enough sleep to slip a garbage bag around her head.

motive? as has been noted here before, the five minutes the cop took to check out her plate was plenty to discover her 'sandra speaks' and black lives matter background.

the last thing these folks wanted in this gawdforsaken racist hellhole was an outside infiltrator troublemaker, from obama's chicago no less!

WHERE IS THE DAMN DOJ???

[laserhaas]

65. Nice to see ya again 'ellennelle' - As always - Spot On!

True analysis of these (newly developing - not ever known heretofore - purported) FACTs

No mention in the original "suicide" release that she was "drugged" induced to make the hanging tolerable.

[chapdrum]

68. She deserved to die because

she was high - is that what we're being told?

[laserhaas]

70. That's the Faux not-news point of contention; but we're turning that on its head.

The issue is that this new development smacks of B.S. (like everything else in this case)

and (IMO) gives more reason to be suspicious of the authorities and look for independent reviews.

[whathehell]

77. Sandra was alone in her cell..I can't understand how she would have acquired MJ in that jail, unless

it was deliberately put in her food.

I strongly doubt she would have accepted a doobie (if it would even be offered) by the shit heads at the jail.

I hope they get to the bottom of this awful, tragic incident.

[cstanleytech]

124. She could have smuggled it in, it wouldnt be the first time someone has managed to sneak drugs

into a jail but the other option is she had been alot of it before the arrest as the report said and it might have explained her behavior towards the officer.
No I am not saying that it excuses the officer who arrested her because it does not as hes supposed to be a professional but it could mitigate some of it enough that maybe he should not be fired, only saying maybe because I am still leaning 99% towards firing.

[whathehell]

126. Do you really see that happening?

She was shocked at being arrested in the first place -- I doubt she'd want to smoke pot in a place like that,

but I could be wrong.

BTW, I don't think her "behavior" toward the cop was anything special -- If he'd followed protocol, he would

have simply given her a ticket and let her drive on. Instead, he deliberately provoked her with a stupid

question concerning her "irritation" and got pissed off when she answered honestly and calmly. Then he

tried to "push it" further with another petty orders about her cigarette which she had every right to smoke,

and then demanded -- quite outside of 'protocol' -- that she leave her car, threatening to "light her up".

if she didn't.

This was a racist, sexist asshole looking for trouble.

That this young woman on her way to a job should be jailed and then found DEAD three days after

being stopped for a goddamn TRAFFIC Ticket is an outrage.

[fredamae]

78. Didn't the report cited on M$NBC also say

that she had used cannabis at least 5 hours before her death? Well, I am Speculating that she may have been unwittingly administered a High Dose of cannabis in her food-without knowledge and consent.
Her phone calls - her vocal clarity does not suggest intoxication by Any means.

5 Hours the main effects have plateaued and begun to subside.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml

I also would want to review any drug test results she had through her New employer. Where the Hell is Sandra's Phone?
I'm not buying the Cannabis angle At all! No way in Hell. And Even IF true...that Does NOT explain nor excuse her Arrest nor does it justify a $5000.00 Bail, nor Three days incarcerated ending in her death. I call bs.

And why did they not discover it while she was Still in custody of the county medical examiner?
It is suspicious for them to all of a sudden want to re autopsy, specific to this so long after the fact. It almost seems like they were alerted by another party and the examiner didn't previously check for drugs for lack of reason/suspicion.
Yep, I don't trust any of them.

[udbcrzy2]

82. Live body vs deceased body

I think there is something to consider when you compare the 'legal limits' in a live body as comparing it to someone who is deceased. I know that alcohol levels increase in the deceased as they are decomposing. I don't know what happens with THC levels though in a body that is deceased and decomposing. An independent autopsy (which her family has had done) will maybe tell us more.

I haven't seen anything where the family has released their autopsy and they have every right not to if they wish.

[laserhaas]

88. Agree - we need an expert (and hopefully the family obtained top of the line).

Also concur, it is their prerogative, on whether or not, to release the findings (evidence for litigation).

Just hope an A-Class job was done;

but they can always unearth, if a 2nd opinion by a Dr. Baden type is required.

[udbcrzy2]

92. Independent Medical Examiner

I don't know who they got. Baden might be a good choice as long as he is doing the full examine and not just assisting as was done in the Mike Brown case where a 'coroner' performed that independent autopsy.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/private-autopsy-says-brown-shot-times-holder-orders-third-autopsy/article_e27c90b4-8fc9-5118-8f4b-ae98a9d0f552.html

You see, Shawn Parcells isn't qualified to do an autopsy according to the National Association of Medical Examiners.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/missouri-coroners-question-practices-of-forensics-company-operator/article_0662e5b1-dcfa-578f-9487-8ab6a176ea4d.html

I think they made a good choice with their attorney and I'm sure he has some good resources.
http://www.getthecannon.com/

[laserhaas]

97. Thanks udbcrzy2

This thing, like Trayvon and others - isn't going to go away, easily.

We need experts concurring on the conclusions, based on facts indisputable.

[Helen Borg]

85. Sorry, but cannabis users don't tend to kill themselves.

If that was the case, lots of cancer patients who use cannabis would kill themselves. But they don't.

[laserhaas]

98. While I don't agree with the "lots of--" conclusion; I do heartily concur with cannabis uses "don't

None of this makes sense.... including this "belated" revelation that Sandy was full of weed, high beyond the norms.

[jmowreader]

91. Is it possible for marijuana to make you that incapacitated?

[Sunlei]

122. some of the treats & candy can make a person very, very sleepy but no one has died I ever heard of.

Maybe police had evidence taken from crimes that was marijuana in eatable form. And they gave her a couple to eat.

I don't think marijuana in her system had anything to do with her death. Those tests can show marijuana use from months ago.

[jmowreader]

131. Sleepy enough to not notice if someone was putting a noose around your neck?

Those tests CAN show marijuana use from months ago, but she wouldn't have had the concentration they are reporting if it was months-ago use.

Thinking out loud...if I were a cop who wanted to suicide someone, I think I would give my victim a cocktail of a high dose of THC plus a lower, but effective, dose of a short-half-life benzodiazepine...the benzodiazepine to sedate her enough to string her up, and the THC because you know they're going to test for it first and if they find a shitload of it that's where they'll stop.

FWIW I don't think pot was the cause either - "heightened desire to kill yourself" isn't one of its known side effects.

[Sunlei]

139. sadly, I think after 3 days in jail she was tired,depressed over the 'ruined' life & killed herself.

In a new town, to start a new job, not enough cash to pay bail bond & a serious Felony to face. People can hang themselves from a doorknob. police are responsible for those under their 'care'

I wish the groups like Black Lives Matter, could set-up a central phone number under a Lawyers name, where persons jailed could call and leave their name & the location where they are jailed. Info could be posted on a message board. Many people go to jail and have no one to call. They disappear into the system and are forgotten.

I am not sure, when people make calls from jail they may not be able to call anyone except family, lawyer, bail bond place.

[laserhaas]

135. YUP - you can alcohol poison and destroy body functions - even death; but

never heard of grass doing such