Vatican holds first trial of cleric accused of paedophilia

[Surya Gayatri]

Source: Business Insider

Vatican City (AFP) - The first ever trial of a former papal official accused of paedophile crimes opens Saturday at the Vatican in what is viewed as belated Church efforts to battle child abusers among the clergy.

The unprecedented trial will hear the case of former Polish archbishop Jozef Wesolowski, who is accused of possessing child pornography in Rome in 2013-14, and the sexual abuse of minors during his 2008-13 stint as the Vatican nuncio, or ambassador, in the Dominican Republic.



Wesolowski, 66, was secretly recalled from his posting in 2012 after the Church hierarchy was informed that he was regularly paying young Dominican boys for sexual services.

He was defrocked by a Church court in June 2014 but remained free until September of that year, when he was placed under house arrest -- reportedly for reasons of failing health -- under an order the Vatican said came directly from Pope Francis.

He is seen as a test case in Francis's push to take a more active role in prosecuting predators in the face of accusations from abuse victims, their families and supporters that the Catholic Church has not done enough to identify and punish paedophiles in its midst.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-vatican-holds-first-trial-of-cleric-accused-of-paedophilia-2015-7?IR=T

---

Let's hope some of the fog and opacity in the Vatican can be cleared away, and that this alleged child-molester actually goes to prison.

UPDATE:

Reports are saying he's just been rushed to hospital this morning, before the trial can even start. To be continued...

[rpannier]

1. He could actually really be sick

But why do I sense he is suffering from an acute case of hypochondria?

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Since he's in the intensive care unit of a public hospital, I damn well hope it's genuine

because that's resources that have to be use for genuine serious illness.

[No Vested Interest]

13. Could he have attempted to take his life, rather than

face trial?
Time will tell.

[Ilsa]

51. I wonder what age threshold the pedophiles

recommend for "bad health" to commence in attempting to delay justice?

But yes, at 66, his health might be a problem, especially if tertiary syphilis is possible.

[Major Nikon]

2. One out of the thousands (or probably millions)

...from thousands of years of church sponsored child molestation. Oh well, I suppose the RCC had better things to do, like educating their flock on the demonic evils of homosexuality.

[skepticscott]

3. What a farce

His trial should be taking place in the Dominican Republic, where the crimes were alleged to have been committed. The Vatican should have turned over any and all evidence they had to the proper authorities there, and let them prosecute, and if convicted, punish this guy under their laws. If the Vatican wants to defrock him too, fine and dandy, but that would hardly be sufficient punishment for the crimes he's accused of (though I'm sure some Catholic apologists here on DU would claim otherwise). Instead they've spirited him away to protect him from facing any real justice and put on a show to make it look like they're doing something. The worst that would happen to him is that he spends a few years under nominal "house arrest" in some cushy apartment in the Vatican. And now even this show trial has been interrupted due to "illness". Please. Does anybody swallow this crap?

[bvf]

5. And this is only ONE trial.

I get that it's high-profile farce (due to proximity to the Vatican itself), but there should be hundreds, if not thousands, of real, criminal trials involving these molesters going on.

[PATRICK]

4. the old Vatican prisons

were probably never very full of their own people, except those bucking authority. Public scandals sometimes involved public trials and burnings especially if they blame the devil instead of organizations and individuals. Even though these usually cooperated with local instruments I think they might as well let civil authorities handle civil crimes. Other crimes against the Church might be a more stellar approach to self correction, penances.
The legendary house arrest with bread and water has it ever been widely imposed on aberrant clerics? Even to the Galileo treatment?

Letting any organization police itself seems always a failure waiting to happen for all the usual reason and such "accountability" has been used more for CYA than anything else.

[LynneSin]

6. At least for the first time a Pope is taking responsibilty

Benedict was the absolutely worst pope ever. Pope Francis actually gives me hope that there could be some serious reform to the Catholic Church. I know this is just one, but we all have to take our first step somewhere.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. Exactly, in that sense this trial is ground-breaking.

The longest journey...first step, etc.

[skepticscott]

10. Do you agree or disagree

that the "first step" in this so-called "journey" should have been to give ALL the evidence they had to the local authorities in the Dominican Republic and let them conduct the trial according to their laws?

Yes or no?

[Surya Gayatri]

11. Oh sure, but as papal nuncio, I believe the creep had diplomatic

immunity and couldn't have been tried there anyway. These Vatican envoys can literally get away with murder, be repatriated to Rome, and disappear into the labyrinthine bowels of the Holy See.

[skepticscott]

15. Nice try

but such immunity can be removed by the Vatican. Nothing stopped them from doing so other than their desire to put the reputation of the church ahead of seeing child rapists punished. And Cardinal Law, among others, had no such immunity..he's simply being shielded from lawful prosecution.

[Surya Gayatri]

16. Sadly, like any diplomatic mission, they were sure to take the 'out'

of diplomatic immunity and high-tail it home.

Why would they chose to allow their guy to be dragged through the local courts if they didn't have to? Just 'real-politic' in action.

What 'try'? I'm not 'trying' to prove anything.

FWIW, I'm not and never have been a Roman Catholic, and have utter contempt for their secrecy and subterfuge around many issues, not just this one.

[skepticscott]

17. "Dragged through the local courts" WTF does that even mean?

If he committed crimes in the Dominican Republic, having him tried there is proper justice, not being "dragged through". They would have allowed that if they were actually interested in justice in such cases, but they're not, which is why they didn't. Which is also why this so-called "trial" in a cozy court in the Vatican, where, even if he is "convicted", his punishment will never come close to being sufficient for his offenses, is nothing but a sham. And why people saying that the Vatican is doing something admirable here should be ashamed of themselves for such blatant apologetics.

[Surya Gayatri]

18. Can you not grasp that I'm 'seeing' the situation from

their perspective? When I say 'dragged', it's because somebody certainly said just that (or something similar) during the 'damage control' conclave that took place in Rome, just before they called him back to the Vatican for so-called 'diplomatic consultations'.

How about a little less literal, and a little more 'second degree' thinking? Hello?

If it will mollify you in some way, consider that "dragged" has double quotes around it.

[skepticscott]

22. This is all apologetics, whether you realize it or not

When you referred to him being dragged through the local courts, you didn't use quotes. Those were your words. So tell me what that means, and why you've gone to such lengths to praise the Vatican for conducting a trial that deliberately subverts local laws and local justice.

[Surya Gayatri]

23. ...

FWIW:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post21

[skepticscott]

31. You're the one flogging the "diplomatic immunity" horse

Long after that argument has been demolished. So point that finger at yourself and try again.

[Surya Gayatri]

35. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post21

Never forget...unfortunately, the Vatican is still, even today, considered a nation-state like any other, and can claim diplomatic immunity for its appointed representatives. And, that's just what they did.

Not right, not fair, but the facts.

[skepticscott]

38. Right over your head..again

CAN claim...not MUST claim. Why are you having so much trouble with that distinction?

Actually, it's quite clear why. Apologetics.

[Surya Gayatri]

19. I'm in no way an apologist for the Roman Catholic Church, its clergy,

or its criminal complicity in child abuse.

Get that through your head, once and for all.

[skepticscott]

32. "This trial is ground-breaking"?

Those were your words, trying to paint this farce as something wonderful that the Vatican is doing, when all they're really doing is subverting justice. That "international law" allows the Vatican to shield a pedophile doesn't mean they have to.

You are unquestionably a Catholic apologist, or you wouldn't be praising and defending this.

[Surya Gayatri]

33. ...

Groundbreaking

Adj. 1. groundbreaking - being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before

Praiseworthy

Adj. 1. praiseworthy - worthy of high praise praiseworthy; commendable

[Surya Gayatri]

36. Train of thought - discussion...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post6

At least for the first time a Pope is taking responsibilty

I know this is just one, but we all have to take our first step somewhere.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post8

Exactly, in that sense (i.e. taking responsibilty) this trial is ground-breaking.

The longest journey...first step, etc.

misread (ˌmɪsˈriːd)
vb (tr) , -reads, -reading or -read (-ˈrɛd)
1. to read incorrectly
2. to misinterpret

Synonyms

misapprehend, misconstrue, misinterpret, misknow, misperceive, misunderstand, miss, mistake

[skepticscott]

39. How is the pope "taking responsibility"?

Please explain in detail what the pope has done wrong in the past that he is now "taking responsibility" for, and tell us how he is doing it by helping someone accused of a crime escape anything but token punishment?

[Surya Gayatri]

43. Re: "taking responsibility"? To get an exact rhetorical

reading of that, I suggest you post a question to LynneSin, or better yet, send her a PM. I'm sure she'll oblige you with an answer.

My PERSONAL reading of her phrase was, that for the first time in history, a Pope was sending one of the "inner sanctum", one of the Vatican elites if you will, to trial.

Apparently, from what I read in the article itself, this IS a first.

A trifling and trivial step, certainly, and perhaps a sham, but the first time, nevertheless.

Hence the use of the adjective 'groundbreaking', i.e. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before.

[Hoppy]

9. Has the Vatican ever heard of a guy, Vernon Cardinal Law?

[valerief]

12. Whenever I see this stuff, all I can think of is the South Park episode where the priest comes

to the Vatican to tell the bishops about a pedophilia problem, and the bishops get into a tizzy, worried if the word gets out about it, they might have to stop having sex with children. It's how I think most bishops in the Vatican really feel.

[lark]

14. I hope he lives long enough to get convicted and see his name be destroyed

as the horrific child rapist that he is. This is really mind blowing, that the church is finally taking a first step in owning up to the carnage they caused by putting one of their own on trial.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. He should have faced the Dominican authorities and answered to the Dominican people.

nt

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Of course, but the Vatican was NEVER going to allow that

to happen to its envoy.

Never forget...unfortunately, the Vatican is still, even today, considered a nation-state like any other, and can claim diplomatic immunity for its appointed representatives. And, that's just what they did.

Not right, not fair, but the facts.

[Drahthaardogs]

28. Why is it "not right"? Any other country (USA included) would do the same...

Like you noted Vatican City is a country. No country is going to turn its envoy over to a foreign country for trial-- It just does not happen. There is nothing strange about this response. It is not a novel response by any country in this situation.

[Surya Gayatri]

29. You're arguing just my point from way upthread, Drahthaardogs...

When I said 'not right', it was meant in the moral sense, in that an accused pedophile can walk free because, as an appointed diplomat, he operates under the international rules of 'diplomatic immunity.'

Apparently, there are quite a number of posters in this thread who have not grasped the concept of 'international law' and 'diplomatic missions'.

Neither, it would seem, do they understand that Papal Nuncio is a diplomatic post, and therefore NOT subject to the local laws and legislation of the country of posting.

[skepticscott]

30. Sorry, we grasp it just fine

But the fact that international law allows the Vatican to do something morally reprehensible does not mean they can't decide to do the right thing instead. And it certainly doesn't justify your praise of this sham trial as something wonderful.

Try again. Your apologetics are old and tired.

[Surya Gayatri]

34. ...

Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:43 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post33

Groundbreaking

Adj. 1. groundbreaking - being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before

Praiseworthy

Adj. 1. praiseworthy - worthy of high praise praiseworthy; commendable

[Surya Gayatri]

37. Oh, and skepticscott? Just wanted to say 'thanks' for kicking this thread 8 separate times.

A little more visibility never hurts, even if this thread IS just one big 'apology' for the RCC and pedophilia.

[skepticscott]

40. I'm perfectly happy

to have the Catholic apologists on DU get all the visibility they deserve. So keep at it.

[Surya Gayatri]

41. Excellent! That's 3 more kicks...just gets better and better.

[Sunlei]

24. why doen't the church just turn them over to the police for civil trial and judgement?

[Surya Gayatri]

25. Because, fairly or not, the guy had diplomatic immunity as Papal Nuncio to the Dominican Republic.

"Papal Nuncio" is a diplomatic post.

See here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141143160#post21

[Sunlei]

26. 'diplomatic immunity' for the pedophile. Religion as Government is always a failure

[Surya Gayatri]

27. ...

[ButterflyBlood]

42. Diplomatic immunity can be waived by the sponsor country

There was an incident in Canada where evidence piled against a Japanese diplomat who had committed rape. He invoked diplomatic immunity but was tried in Canada after Japan waived it. No reason the Vatican couldn't do that here.

[Surya Gayatri]

44. They could have, but chose not to. That's just the fact on the ground.

Given the Vatican's regrettable and refractory record on this issue, no surprise really.

Secrecy and subterfuge are their middle names and their preferred MO.

Seriously, would you really have expected any other reaction from the chief pedophile enablers on the planet?

[skepticscott]

45. Exactly...the point this poster refuses to acknowledge

Even though there is nothing complex or controversial about it. And it's not hard to guess why, though the reason is pretty disgusting.

[Surya Gayatri]

46. Thanks again, skepticscott. Your implication in and

attachment to this thread are most welcome...

[Surya Gayatri]

47. Oh, là là, just noticed that the reply count is almost up to the magic 50...which means

a kick back to the "Latest" page.

Come on, you can do it, buddy, just 3 more posts and we're there! Don't hold back--just put it all out there...

[skepticscott]

48. As I said, I;m perfectly happy to let people see

that there are plenty of DUers defending the Catholic Church's protection and enabling of pedophiles. Bring it on. And be sure to explain why you're obliviously to the distinction between "can" and "must" assert diplomatic immunity. Do you really think that intelligent people won't call you on the rug...I mean carpet...about that?

[Surya Gayatri]

49. Hey there, hi there, ole buddy! Glad to see you're still with me...

Only just logged on this morning and.....Voilà! There you are. Faithful to a fault.

Oooooh! Yikes!

Intelligent people "calling me on the 'rug' (sic)...?"

[Surya Gayatri]

50. More on that update: 'Archbishop hospitalised ahead of paedophilia trial'

VATICAN CITY: A former Polish archbishop became ill and was placed in intensive care ahead of the opening of his unprecedented trial on paedophilia charges at the Vatican, officials said on Saturday.

Jozef Wesolowski is accused of sexually abusing minors during his 2008-13 stint as Vatican ambassador to the Dominican Republic and of possessing child pornography in Rome in 2013-14.

His case is seen as a test of Pope Francis’s push to prosecute sexual predators in the face of accusations that the Catholic Church has not done enough to identify and punish paedophiles in its midst.

The hospitalisation of the 66-year-old reduced the first day of his trial, which was open to the public, to seven minutes before the judge recessed until a later, unspecified date.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1193866