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Ptah

(33,032 posts)
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:02 PM Apr 2012

Rural Montana Religious Colonies Fight Labor Law

Source: abcnews.com

Religious colonies of Hutterites in rural Montana are fighting the state's
attempts to impose a labor law backed by businesses that complain they
can't outbid the low cost of the communal workers.

The Hutterites are Protestants similar to the Amish and Mennonites who
live a life centered on their religion, but unlike the others, Hutterites live
in German-speaking communes scattered across northern U.S. states and Canada.

They don't pay wages, don't vote and don't enlist in the military. They make
their own clothes, produce their own food and construct their own buildings.

"Their core belief is that they have no property. All the property and labor they have,
they contribute to the colony," Ron Nelson, an attorney for the Big Sky Colony,
told the Montana Supreme Court.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/rural-montana-religious-colonies-fight-labor-law-16212221#.T5idyFLLkz5

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brewens

(13,596 posts)
1. I love those guys! My refrigeration man is a Hutterite and we get one
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:25 PM
Apr 2012

of their guys to do some mechanic work as well. A little cash and beer bonus and they're good! Nice guys too.

 

Spoonman

(1,761 posts)
16. Things have changed
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:22 AM
Apr 2012

We use to get cow hides tanned by them, and they made the best wine in the world!

It's a different generation running things now.

sorefeet

(1,241 posts)
3. Fresh chickens
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:48 PM
Apr 2012

and good produce. Beware of the rhubarb wine, worst hangover you ever had. Maybe I drink a little too much.

 

unkachuck

(6,295 posts)
4. "...a labor law backed by businesses..."
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 10:01 PM
Apr 2012

....since when do businesses back labor laws?....when,

"...they can't outbid the low cost of the communal workers."

....this demonstrates Communism is more efficient than capitalism.

Ptah

(33,032 posts)
6. Sure, no pay for labor is more efficient.
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 10:04 PM
Apr 2012

"The real competitive edge is that the colonies don't pay wages to their workers,..."

 

provis99

(13,062 posts)
9. they ARE paid for their labor.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 12:00 AM
Apr 2012

they get free food, housing, clothes, and whatever passes for entertainment in a colony. If they do share in common, they are indeed communistic, and to the capitalist businessmen who can't compete I say:

 

Spoonman

(1,761 posts)
15. "Communism is more efficient than capitalism"
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:20 AM
Apr 2012

You do realize they are providing labor for a "capitalist" venture?

So without a "capitalist" putting the money up for the project, they get DONUT!

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
5. I wasn't sure what to think but honestly, regular folks can't compete against what they charge
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 10:04 PM
Apr 2012

I'm sure if they are anything like the Amish (a similar type group) the quality and craftsmanship is probably very very good. But it's not fair that non-hutterites can't compete against their bids because of the religious beliefs of the Hutterites.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
8. Communism DOES work!!
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 10:57 PM
Apr 2012

but as Thom Hartmann says, it cant work in any group more than 150 members because the human mind cant know any more than that on a personal basis.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
10. Good point! I've heard that number bantered about for a long time. In corps.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:14 AM
Apr 2012

where I've worked the general rule was if you had more than 150 people per group involved on a project it was going to fall apart. I don't have any validity on this, I just recall the 150 number.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
19. That sounds about right, thus all armies use Companies as the basic military formation,.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:35 PM
Apr 2012

Traditionally Companies had about 100 men (In Roman Times they were called Centuries for their contained about 100 men). Since WWI, the number of people in a Company has increased, but you also saw a greater use of Platoons (the next smallest group within the Military hierarchy) with the Company becoming more and more where the higher ranks of the Platoon meet to co-ordinate their platoon actions with the other platoons and the various support groups retained at company headquarters.

Thus you have about 100 men working together to keep the various smaller groups working toward the same goal. As you go up the chain of Command, the number of about 100 keeps coming back, as BOTH the people supporting the people coordinating the groups below and above them. For example the level above Company is the Battalion, which has a Headquarter Company. That headquarter company feeds itself, provides its own security etc while coordinating the actions of the various line companies in the battalion (and works with the Support Company to make sure the other company gets their food, ammunition, medical care, and heavy weapons support, i.e. Mortars, AA protection and other heavy weapons support).

At the next level, the brigade (Prior to 1964 in the US Army this was called a Regiment) again you have a Headquarters's company to coordinate the various line Battalions, any attached artillery battalion (and it various Batteries, what the Artillery call its Companies) along with Air Support, supply, Front line Hospital care etc.

I point this out for all of society tends to be this way, groups of 100 or so people working with each other to get things done, but the 100 people each person works with MAY be a different set of 100 people. Some may be in Platoon level, some may be in Company level some may be at Battalion level some may be at Bridge or even higher level. Some of these groups are formal, such a Military Company, some may be known and formal but not actually named, the officers of the various groups working together for example from Division, excluding company level officers, my have only about 100 men (4 Officers per company, four companies per battalion total 16 Company level officers plus Battalion officers of another 14-16 officers, total 30 officers but only 3 or 4 Major or above and lower ranking staff officers as opposed to line officers.

Thus while the total officers in a Brigade (Generally three Battalions to a Brigade) may be around 100, those actually working at the Brigade level generally are less then a third of that number (The rest in charge of Companies or Platoons). Thus the number of officers interacting at the Division level (Which generally consist of three brigades) again of about 100 people. Each level represents another 100 or so people interacting, till we get to the various wings of the Pentagon.

Business organization tend to be about the same, about 100 people interacting. If you have more then that you have to break it up into smaller pieces to keep the number of people below about 100. In many ways, the 1% tend to be the people in charge of this interaction. If done fairly works out well, if done unfairly (i.e. the 1% get to much of the profit of getting the groups to work together) the groups break up (or revolt and replace their part of the 1%).

Just pointing who why 100 tends to be almost universal AND where the 1% operate among those groups of 100.

harmonicon

(12,008 posts)
11. I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:50 AM
Apr 2012

I think there are real arguments to be made by both sides.

On one side, I completely understand that wages, insurance, etc. should be uniform and regulated.

On the other, I know what it was like seeing how a family farm is run. If everyone (mostly family) who pitched in on my grandparents' farm in one way or another had been an employee on the books with all associated regulations, there's no way it would have worked.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
13. This little bunch of folks is that big a threat?
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:08 AM
Apr 2012

These businesses might want to re-think their business model if a small group of people in an isolated area can discombobulate them so badly. Odd concept, though: A group of people who aren't feverishly and mindlessly buying useless crap can live quite well on very little. Who knew?

 

Spoonman

(1,761 posts)
14. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:15 AM
Apr 2012

I seem to recall a HUGE amount of criticism at DU about the Catholic church trying to exempt itself from having to provide insurance covered contraceptives to it's employees based on "religious beliefs".

The biggest argument here was that the entities that employed these "employees" were businesses of the Catholic church. Businesses that were not exempt from labor laws etc.

The Hutterites are entering into contracts for labor/construction in an endeavor outside their colony.
The organization (colony) profits from said labor.
Those profits are placed into the organization (colony).

Sounds no different than any other business to me!

The "colony" is acting as a for profit business, and therefor should be subject to all labor laws and requirements.
They should pay into workers comp, federal income tax (personal and corporate), social security and medicare!

Something you should ponder on as well is the fact that many of these colonies take in MILLIONS of dollars every year and pay NO taxes! (Can you say 1%?)

On a side note: The Hutterite colony that "set up shop" next to my uncles farm (a registered century farm) punched over 50 irrigation wells (10 - 12 inch) and wiped out the water table last year affecting over 10K acres of neighboring property and 9 different landowners.

They refuse to stop pumping even after the soil and water conservation district has cited them. They are claiming "religious endeavor"!

The district says it will take 5-10 years for the water table to recover.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
17. Everybody should follow the same rules fundie or not fundie...
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 10:44 AM
Apr 2012

I love how some groups who follow one mythology are treated with kid gloves (See above (they are harmless)) and billions of people who follow other (equally absurd) mythology are demonized.


Rules of the nation trump jesus, allah, sky people, or whatever hutterites believe in end of story.

 

Spoonman

(1,761 posts)
18. Amen!
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:15 AM
Apr 2012

LMAO!

They call it "organized" religion, I call it a religious based business model!

I'm not alone in that thought.

Religion is wholly determined by material and economic realities - Karl Marx

Religion is the opium of the masses - Karl Marx
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