Vaccine foes rally at California Capitol

[alp227]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

SACRAMENTO -- Hundreds of protesters, many not only seeing red -- but also wearing red T-shirts -- descended on the state Capitol today to decry proposed legislation that would end their ability to opt their child out of vaccinations.

Chanting "My Child, My Choice'' and carrying signs that read "Force my veggies, not vaccines," and "Protect the Children, Not Big Pharma -- No on SB 277," the crowd listened as one speaker after another addressed both the harm they said vaccines have caused their children and the threat of an arrogant state government that is seeking to make health care decisions on their behalf.

The raucous rally preceded a Senate Health Committee hearing this afternoon at which nine senators are expected to vote on Senate Bill 277, co-authored by Sen. Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, a pediatrician. The bill would require that only children who have been immunized for various diseases, including measles and whooping cough, be admitted to school in California. Only medical exemptions would be allowed.

The bill also would require schools to notify parents of immunization rates at their child's school.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/health/ci_27873768/vaccine-foes-rally-at-california-capitol

---

But none of them would be willing to move to a society where their ideas are in action like in the underdeveloped world.

[arcane1]

1. "Force my veggies"? WTF does that mean?

[busterbrown]

5. not vaccines..

I guess....

[freshwest]

13. I found a link. Spelling is a bit off, but anyway, it's a method:

Last edited Wed Apr 8, 2015, 09:07 PM - Edit history (1)

http://agriinfo.in/?page=topic&superid=1&topicid=861

IDK if they're suggesting people be forced to eat their vegetables...

[cosmicone]

2. Idiots are everywhere n/t

[SwankyXomb]

17. Look at it this way

when the crazy people congregate in one spot like this, it's easier to round them up and put them someplace where we'll be safe from them.

[cosmicone]

23. The problem is that they don't congregate

They are the infiltrating kind, developing deep roots and branches reaching out to other idiots.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

49. Or to allow them to pass bugs along between them.

After all, if they're against vaccinating their kids, chances are good more of them aren't vaccinated either, so they've got more chance to pass communicable diseases to each other.

One truly wicked thing you could do is to organize big get-together "protest" days at entertainment venues where they all bring their kids along, like, for instance, special 'concerts for kids' to 'raise awareness about the anti-vax movement'. All it takes is one truly sick kid shedding viruses at such an event and 'wham!' instant outbreak to demonstrate why vaccines matter.

[pnwmom]

3. Homeschoolers have a lower vaccination rate. How will this bill address that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/home-school-vaccination-_n_6624100.html

[gcomeau]

14. It won't.

It will in fact drive it up, as idiots who want to refuse to get their kids vaccinated will have to either suck it up or home school since their kids won't be allowed in actual schools where they compromise the safety of every other kid there.

Not perfect, but better than letting these morons turn their kids into nodes of infectious disease transmission and then send them into large groups of other children on a daily basis.

[NuclearDem]

4. Dumbasses.

[sharp_stick]

6. You could probably measure the

average IQ of those nutjobs with a ruler.

[proverbialwisdom]

22. Opting out or delaying even a single dose of a vaccine triggers the exemption label. Income effect?

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/04/california_anti_vaccine_movement_politics_wealth_bob_sears_and_robert_f.html

[Chakaconcarne]

7. maybe this will enable the larger discussion to be had

[Archae]

10. What larger discussion?

Two facts:

1. Vaccines prevent horrible diseases. (Mumps, polio, etc.)

2. Vaccines do *NOT* cause autism like these idiots claim.

[Chakaconcarne]

24. Gotchya....

First of all before anyone jumps all over me... I am not advocating against Vaccines by any means.. Vaccine safety and the information we are given (or not given) by the industry in general are what people are speaking out against..

"Science" also says GMO's are safe... but my guess is many here aren't willing to buy it.. No?

98% of all medication trials are funded by the manufacturer. 98% of those trials favor the efficacy and safety of those medications. FWIW

Somewhere in between the anti-vaccination movement and those that call them "idiots" is the answer. There is a larger discussion to be had and the industry is ensuring we don't have that discussion.

Thimerosal:

Are Vaccines thimerosal free? That's what we are told...

the FDA allowed manufacturers to claim a vaccine is thimerosal free if it is not an ingredient or used as a preservative. But many mfr's use thimerosal in the manufacturing process for vaccines like: DTaP vaccine, DT vaccine, Hib (ACTHib, TriHIBit) and Meningococcal vaccine.

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/Components-Excipients%2014-0528.pdf

In the same list above, note the number of vaccines that contain Aluminum, another toxic metal which is been approved at higher levels in vaccines than it is in other injectables?

Also note the high rate of Guilliain Barre Syndrome in Flu Shot recipients who have received injury compensation. Did they tell you this during the "Get your Flu Shot Now" ad?

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/dojpresentation.pdf

What is GBS... Sound familiar? Seen this in news reports?

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm


According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s own website, we have “limitations in our knowledge of the risks associated with vaccines” and vaccinations have “the following problems”:

“Limited understanding of biological processes that underlie adverse events.

1. Incomplete and inconsistent information from individual reports.

2. Poorly constructed research studies (not enough people enrolled for the period of time).

3. Inadequate systems to track vaccine side effects.

4. Few experimental studies were published in the medical literature.”

In 1986 children were receiving ~10-12 vaccines (23 doses) we saw the same or fewer out breaks of vaccine preventable disease as we do today.

In 1986, the US passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986. This effectively took away the right of parents to sue Vaccine Mfr's for injury or death. It also created the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and NVICP.

Since 1986, we are up to ~40-49 doses of 14 vaccines before age 6. 2.5 billion has been awarded for injuries,but this is not from lawsuits but from taxes on Vaccines. If a child dies, the award is $250K.

Though most Vaccine adverse events are reported via the phone or fax, the US has now disallowed that and now people can only report through a website.

The US receives the most vaccines of any country. Studies have found correlations with high numbers of vaccines given to children and Infant Mortality Rate:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/


Flu Shot:

Fisrt Look up antigenic sin. Goes like this: You inject a small concentration of the flu strain(s) (usually 3-4 per year/flu shot) and this will help your body recognize and thus fight off the flu.. MFR's use this theory to support it's use.. What they don't tell you... Year after year you get the flu shot and inject 3-4 new strains of flu into your body....So, after 10 years you have 30-40 strains your body can recognize. That sounds awesome! When you get exposed to a new strain, your immune system will do a check against every one of those previously injected strains. Awesome!! Until It doesn't find the new one..... and guess what? It has taken your body that much longer to recognize and thus recover from this new strain you've been exposed to. So, if you get the flu shot once, you MIGHT reap some benefit, but every year thereafter you get a flu shot, you are making it harder for your body to protect itself and this is why it seems every year the flu is getting worse... and it is...for those that get the flu shot!

Efficacy: Hovers around 50-60% based on MFR studies. They come to this figure by concluding that if someone received the flu shot and didn't get the flu, it must have been because of the flu shot... What the MFR studies don't tell you is that they cannot control for: someone not ever being exposed to the flu, someone practicing flu prevention measures or someone having a particularly strong immune system, etc. That is going to knock down efficacy a lot, maybe even down in the 20-30% range.

There are also studies that contradict the dire need to vaccinate the elderly and small children.. The studies find no link in improving outcomes, in fact they find they something different:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22895945

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=486407

Cochrane review that addresses the Flu Mandate:

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD005187/ARI_influenza-vaccination-for-healthcare-workers-who-care-for-people-aged-60-or-older-living-in-long-term-care-institutions

Also, the CDC/WHO monitors flu strains across the globe and every spring they (and MFR's) predict what's going to hit N.A. in the fall. They take their best guess and start producing vaccines in early summer. All the while they are still tracking flu across the globe and they know right about the time the flu vaccine is released in Aug/Sept how efficacious it will be.. They knew this year.... and guess what? We didn't hear about how poorly the vaccine matched until December!!! and that was after a 3 month marketing campaign informing everyone how bad the flu season would be. Awesome!

[HERVEPA]

26. Go peddle your anti-vax bullshit somewhere else.

[Chakaconcarne]

27. That's nice...

Jeezus... read my post.. I'm not anti-vaccine.

It's only bullshit until you can formulate some kind of response to the studies I cited...You're providing the cheap response...people want more than that.

All I'm point out is that people have questions when they read the medical literature (which I've cited). Should they not?

[HERVEPA]

29. There's proven science, and there's your crap.

[Chakaconcarne]

30. Read the studies I cited...

and then come back to post... I'm specifically talking about vaccine safety and not about the suspected Autism link.. Hope that helps.

[HERVEPA]

31. Doesn't help. Vaccines are a huge public net good. Yes, pharmaceutical companies often suck.

They also help save and improve countless lives.
The anecdotal stuff is crap. Anecdotes may or may not be trye, but it is irrelevant.
The quack scientists are crap.
And I can't believe this discussion is occurring in 2015.
Then again, lots of things I can't believe are occurring in 2015.

[NuclearDem]

32. All I needed to see was you citing that HET IMR study.

That's been debunked so many times it's not even funny.

[Adrahil]

40. Well you SAY you aren't anti-vaxx, and yet...

... You pretty much peddle their talking points.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,comes to mind.

[Major Nikon]

34. You may not be anti-vax

But you sure know how to sling the anti-vax nonsense.

Thimerosal:

The anti-vax nutbags claimed there was a Thimerosal-Autism link. No causal link was ever found and this half-baked theory has been long been discredited.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

What is GBS... Sound familiar? Seen this in news reports?

GBS is one possible side effect of numerous vaccines. It's extremely rare and the risks associated with NOT getting vaccinated far outweigh the risks of GBS, but you fail to mention that.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s own website...

Funny how you didn't link to it. Probably because the page in question covers historical information, kinda like the bullets you posted that go back to around 30 years ago which you obviously are misrepresenting as still being applicable today.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

In 1986, the US passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986. This effectively took away the right of parents to sue Vaccine Mfr's for injury or death.

It was also a bipartisan act created because certain vaccines were at risk of becoming completely unavailable because people were filing frivolous lawsuits against vaccine manufactures on all sorts of pseudo-science nuttery that had zero causal links to vaccines (you know, like autism). The law also established all sorts of safety regulations for vaccines to insure safety of the supply.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

The US receives the most vaccines of any country. Studies have found correlations with high numbers of vaccines given to children and Infant Mortality Rate:

This is one of the anti-vaxxer's favorite. You can find it on pretty much all the anti-vax quack web sites like Naturalnews.com. Neither of the studies authors have any background in epidemiology. One is a computer scientist. The study received funding from creme-de-la-quack Barbara Loe Fisher. The only author who has any sort of medical background, Neil Z. Miller, claims to be independent, but in reality makes his living publishing anti-vax/autism quackery. The entire "study" is nothing more than a poorly researched observation of spurious correlation that's about as useful as claiming the decline in pirate population is causing global warming.

This one is so ridiculous I really should give you 2 points for this, but since it's only one of your bullets I'll award you just 1 point here.

Flu Shot:

Fisrt Look up antigenic sin.

After you looked it up, you should have given understanding it a shot. Even if antigenic sin is a factor with the flu vaccine (and that's a big maybe), you are still much better off getting the flu shot every year than you would be by missing dosses, even if you assume antigenic sin is a relevant factor. This is simply another anti-vax tactic of pointing out inherent limitations to vaccines and pretending such limitations negate the benefit of the vaccine.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

Efficacy:

This one is so ridiculous it looks as if you just pulled it out of your ass rather than parroting off an anti-vax site. You obviously have no idea what the word even means because what you describe ain't how efficacy is measured. Flu vaccine efficacy is measured by randomized controlled trials.

Again it's a shame you can't be awarded more than 1 point here.

There are also studies that contradict the dire need to vaccinate the elderly and small children

So there's two issues here so 2 points are at stake.

The first study you lists shows no efficacy for children under six months. Well guess what? The CDC doesn't recommend children under six months get vaccinated. So your "dire need" is nothing more than strawman nonsense.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

Your 2nd study posted on the elderly only concerns mortality rate, and you pretend that's the only consequence of the flu. It was also written before the new high-dose flu vaccine developed specifically for people over 65.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

Also, the CDC/WHO monitors flu strains across the globe...blah-blah-blah

Well guess what? The efficacy of the flu vaccine varies from year to year, sometimes greatly. That's just the nature of the beast. And no they do not "know" how efficacious it will be until they can study it during flu season. Once again you completely miss what efficacy means.

Score 1 point for peddling anti-vax nonsense

You are 10 out of a possible 10 here. I think we can stop pretending you're not anti-vax.

[Chakaconcarne]

35. I'll start working my way upwards....

You're missing the larger point I've been trying to make and picking and choosing what you want to address.. You've also posted no citations. Whatever..

There is enough contradictory evidence and personal experiences of adverse events that aren't captured in MFR funded studies that is creating distrust...AND the industry has not done a good job of proving them wrong... only.. they are "idiots". Do you understand? People point out that the antivaxx community is only out there to make money on their ideology or whatever.. but they don't want to apply that some logic to manufacturers.. They want to give them a free ride.. Most here at DU will demonize Big Oil, or weapons mfr's for promoting an agenda that meets their shareholders needs.. but that can't be applied to Drug Mfr's? Is that what you are saying? It's just not possible that maybe we are receiving a few too many vaccines? It's just not possible that the industry wants to push the line just a bit more to increase profit? It's just not possible that aren't being given all the information? We all know how that works... Distrust.

If you witness your neighbor's child suddenly experience the rare side effect - GBS from a vaccine administration or any other debilitating side effect, as a parent who's child is due for their vaccine the next day.. you might just be hesitant.. no? You might just wonder... can that happen to my child? It's scary shit as a parent and that is what people are reacting to..for better or worse.. That's the point I'm trying to make here.. not convince people to not get vaccines, but to point out that people are unsure and there are enough anecdotal reports, real fucking people experiencing these adverse effects and studies that contradict mfr funded studies that are often biased as I pointed out. And when I read about people's experiences, their children getting harmed for life... and then hear people say they are "idiots" because they want answers..it's sad and that is precisely why I even chimed in here... They don't deserve to be called "idiots" and they don't deserve to be diminished. Got it?

I've had all my vaccines, my children have had all their vaccines..

#10 This is a Cochrane Review.. Cochrane is far from...what you would call "Nutbaggy"?
http://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-to-prevent-influenza-in-healthy-adults.

#9 A) Did I say younger than 6 months of age? Let me define young children as less than 2. Would that help?
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/children.htm
B) You are correct. Thanks for pointing out the high dose flu shot.. Studies say 90% effective, so is that 90% of the overall 40-50% average efficacy? Could not nail down that information.

#8 Yes, I am quite aware of "efficacy" and RCT's. But the studies could not control for the factors I pointed out.. How could they? Please enlighten me.

#7. Manufacturers use "Antigenic Sin" to promote the flu vaccine..that's what makes it "great"... And No, you are wrong... If antigenic sin is a relevant factor, you are not better off getting the flu shot. You can't have it both ways... I don't get the flu shot and I have had the flu once in the last 15 years... Why the hell do I need it, why is it recommended for healthy people? Why is it no longer socially acceptable to fight it on my own... It's a fucking money maker... and as I pointed out, they KNEW it wasn't effective this year in August..but they still pushed it for 3 months... Distrust. 40-50% effective.. those are MFR based stats... Not good enough for me...based on the above. YMMV.

to continue.

[Major Nikon]

37. "You're missing the larger point"

I'm pretty sure your "larger point" is simply to stoke irrational fear, which is what all anti-vaxxers do. You even admit that much. Some are just honest enough to admit they are anti-vax.

I'm not going to continue to chase down all the crap you are throwing against the wall. I have better things to do like playing strip chess by mail. As another poster pointed out, posting the IMR-VAX study and pretending it means anything tells anyone all they really need to know about you.

[Smithryee]

36. You do know Wakefield has long been discredited

and has no medical license to practice.

Therefore, his studies are invalid and rejected by real peers.

[gcomeau]

16. I cannot imagine...

...what "larger discussion" there could possibly be to be had on this topic.

[alp227]

19. About what? nt

[Godhumor]

20. There is no discussion to be had

There is the correct side and there is the fucking idiots.

[proverbialwisdom]

21. "Thimerosal: Let The Science Speak" demonstrates otherwise, as does CDC scientist Dr. Bill Thompson.

The authors held off publishing for one year after giving their book to the CDC, FDA and HHS, incidentally.

http://fox13now.com/2015/04/06/robert-f-kennedy-jr-talks-about-link-between-ingredient-in-vaccines-and-autism/

“If somebody can show me a single study, one study, if any of the doctors you’ve mentioned can show me a single study that shows that thimerosal is safe, I will go on Anderson Cooper and publicly apologize. I challenge you. Find me one study.”

~Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

More:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017257265
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026435011#post57
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017206443

[Chakaconcarne]

25. So did anyone prove him wrong?

Rather than just parading this letter and eluding... "See, this guy's an idiot". Please complete the picture with some solid citations so we can all be enlightened.

[proverbialwisdom]

28. The letter is dated 4/8/15. His offer to debate ANYONE who contests the material in his book was 4/7

I don't understand what you're asking, sorry.

[NuclearDem]

33. No, because he established an impossible level of proof.

One doesn't prove something is safe; one demonstrates lack of harm. There are countless studies demonstrating thiomersal doesn't cause autism, but since he used a vague term like "safe" he has room to move the goalposts all he wishes.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

50. This guy's an idiot?

I'll say that. He wants to fight a fight that hasn't mattered for more than two decades. Right in his letter it states that thimerosol was removed from vaccines in 1993. So why the heck should anyone even be addressing thimerosol when talking about any vaccines manufactured in the last 22 years? Other than to be an idiot, that is.

(Edit, and, btw, CDC thimerosol timeline

That's a link to a CDC page that links to multiple more recent studies that show no link between thimerosol and autism. Cause that guy's an idiot.)

(Second edit: Oh, and btw, I note the 1993 is the removal in Scandinavia. On the CDC timeline, removal in the states occurs only a decade and a half ago, simply to make the fearful happy, given that no recent study supports any link between thimerosol and autism.)

[onecaliberal]

51. They took Thimerisol out of vaccines LONG

Ago. You're not going to convince anyone. Keep your unvaccinated kids out of public so they can't sicken other children. Your choice to be an idiot shouldn't ever put my kids or anyone else's in danger.

[Major Nikon]

38. So an appeal to ignorance fallacy is supposed to mean something?

Food and drug empirical studies rarely, if ever prove things are safe. They prove things are not safe and in the absence of such evidence they are assumed to be safe once any risk is quantified. New data can always change that conclusion.

How about showing one single study besides Wakefield's quackery that shows thimerosal, which has been in constant use for almost 100 years isn't safe?

[proverbialwisdom]

39. Whoa! Feigning confusion with factually false claims? You know better, I'm sure.

Last edited Sat Apr 11, 2015, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

FYI: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026478705#post97

For Major Nikon re post #52: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017257265#post3

[Major Nikon]

41. You mean like calling Wakefield a doctor? You know better, I'm sure.

[proverbialwisdom]

42. Heard of Dr. John Walker-Smith? Cofounder of the field of pediatric gastroenterology?

Senior coauthor on the 5-page retracted 1998 Lancet paper? FULLY EXONERATED with license to practice RESTORED (although retired) following a lengthy and expensive appeal process? Does accuracy matter to you?

MORE (in depth updates starting March 7 with links to original sources eg. GMC court case): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026171831#post144

http://www.rescuepost.com/files/oregon-testimony_ajw.pdf

...The allegations of ethical and research misconduct
against my colleagues and against me came before the English High
Court in the appeal of Professor Walker-Smith. The judge utterly
demolished the case against him – which was very much the same as the
case against me – in effect, finding the General Medical Council guilty of
incompetence, and worse, bias. Prof Walker-Smith was immediately and
completely exonerated. For financial reasons, I was unable to appeal.

The allegations of research fraud are dealt with in an independent
investigation of the original Lancet study by Dr. David Lewis Ph.D. who
was a senior scientist at the EPA and an acknowledged expert in research
fraud. His investigation and conclusions are to be found in the book,
Science for Sale.1 He confirms that what fraud there was, was on the part
of journalist Brian Deer and Dr. Godlee, Editor of the BMJ...

[Major Nikon]

43. Channeling Wakefield in defense of Wakefield is just entirely too fucking funny

I get that Wakefield is your hero and all the anti-vax nuttery sites hold up a completely separate legal decision as "evidence" that the proven fraud Wakefield would have been exonerated had he been competent enough to file his own appeal. The problem is, John Walker-Smith's defense was that the charges weren't adequately articulated against him (which wasn't the case with Wakefield) and that basically he was an unwitting dupe who was hoodwinked into using his practice to perform research for Wakefield that Wakefield was fraudulently subverting in order to make himself rich.

[Major Nikon]

45. So now you're channeling Jenny McCarthy's mouthpiece

I think that might actually be funnier.

http://www.ageofautism.com/jenny_mccarthy/

[proverbialwisdom]

46. Do facts matter? That's not even close. McCarthy's group is Generation Rescue, not AOA.

This journal link is from a Generation Rescue pdf tweet: http://jcn.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/05/09/0883073813488668

This video from Generation Rescue is inspiring, too. This is a joke to you?

Published on Jun 3, 2013

Generation Rescue's Executive Director Candace McDonald shares why being a part of the organization is so important to her.

[center]

[/center]

Here are BIOS (in brief) of the founders of each group, as I understand it. Notice the chronology.

Blaxill and Olmsted (AOA founders in 2007 with Kim Stagliano): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026268802#post50

EXCERPT (Blaxill) He received a bachelor’s degree summa cum laude from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and an MBA with distinction from Harvard Business School. In his professional career, he spent 25 years at The Boston Consulting Group, where he was a Senior Vice President. Recently, he co-founded 3LP Advisors, an advisory firm focused on intellectual property transactions, where he is a Managing Partner.

EXCERPT (Yale University graduate Olmsted): He was an original staff member of USA Today and Senior Editor for USA Weekend magazine and United Press International. He is a member of the National Press Club.

Handley (founder of GENERATION RESCUE in 2005 with his wife, Lisa): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026256049#post2

EXCERPT: Operating Partner at Swander Pace Capital, which he co-founded in 1996 and is based at the firm’s San Francisco office. Mr. Handley was responsible for SPC Partners IV, L.P. Previously, Mr. Handley was a Vice President at TSG Consumer Partners, where he focused on the management of private equity investments in consumer products companies. Mr. Handley served as Managing Director of Swander Pace Capital (“SPC”), a consumer products-focused private equity firm, from 1996 to 2013. Earlier in his career, he was a Management Consultant with Swander Pace & Company, where he specialized in mergers and acquisitions and investment strategy. Mr. Handley serves as the Chairman or Board member of ReNew Life Formulas, Inc., Gilchrist & Soames, Inc., and International Fiber Corporation. He serves as the Director of Marketfare Foods, LLC and Kubic Marketing. Mr. Handley has been Director of Great Ajax Corp since June 30, 2014. Mr. Handley served as the Chairman of Fresh Food Concepts, Inc and Genisoy Food Company, Inc. and served on the Board of Bravo Sports Corporation. Previously, he served as the Chairman of Totes Isotoner Corp. and Fleischmann's Vinegar Company, Inc. Mr. Handley served as a Director of The American Hard Cider Company, Oregon Chai, Inc. Switch Manufacturing, and Ethnic Gourmet Foods. He received dual B.A. degrees in East Asian Studies and Economics, with honors, from Stanford University.

McCarthy and Generation Rescue (2008): http://www.generationrescue.org/about/background/

Confusion is understandable if you rely on Wikipedia. Yeah, laugh NOT.

[Major Nikon]

52. I'm sure all of McCarthy's blow holes are high on your reading list

PS by "mouthpiece" I mean they give her a soapbox to publish her nutbaggery. Furthermore I'm pretty sure facts DON'T matter to McCarthy fans. You know, like you.

Cheers!

[alp227]

47. The AoA author lied.

In the very link provided by AoA!

Of course, my reports did not hinge on child 11, or on any individual case. As explained in the most detailed account of Wakefield's grotesque misconduct, it rested on the findings (as the BMJ noted) that Wakefield concealed and manipulated the terms of the research study, secretly conducted for a lawsuit, and that not one of the children were reported upon truthfully. Wakefield lied and lied again.

[proverbialwisdom]

48. You owe it to yourself to clarify this beyond Brian Deer's own statement.

Several writers at AOA from the UK (Martin Hewitt, John Stone) and Dan Olmsted have drilled down into this subject at excruciating length. They can answer any questions with ease and are able to offer rebuttals with primary sources. Brian Deer interacts with them (see example #2 below). Why don't you write? Contact info is available.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/01/brian-deer-remains-mute.html

January 08, 2015
Brian Deer Remains Mute
By John Stone

[Archae]

8. I read somewhere that Robert F. Kennedy Jr was in that crowd.

He is an absolute moron.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

11. He jumped the shark long ago

Papantonio should really part ways with him.

[Renew Deal]

9. People should show up and stand with the protesters with signs that say

"I've got the flu and I'm fine"
"Whopping cough, me worry?
"Kiss me, I'm infected"
"I'm so happy to measles you"
"My lovely lady mumps"

[freshwest]

15. Or 'I just found out I've got Rabies! Want a kiss?' Watch 'em scatter, then chase 'em down!

There are already many conspiracy theories against the NIH's trials for an ebola/rabies vaccine posted. They predict a zombie apocalypse.

Alex Jones has told them they'll be mind controlled with microchips, given cancer or made infertile with any vaccination. Or even turned into chimera, yes, half man and beast from the vaccines.

So everyone who is for vaccines must already have taken the mark of the beast or the microchip, is the argument. They won't listen to us, but I want them to talk.

And be proven wrong with science. The same kind of science that gives them their electricity, automobiles, running water, computers and most likely, their jobs. Let it all rise and fall in the marketplace of ideas.

[jtuck004]

12. "We're dumb and we're not going to take it anymore!!" n/t

[Marrah_G]

18. Idiots

[workinclasszero]

53. Is there an island someplace where all these flat earthers can

go with their poor infectious children, so the rest of sane society does not have to suffer and die needlessly?