Lufthansa Now Says It Knew of Co-Pilot’s Previous Depression.

[elleng]

Source: NYTimes

DÜSSELDORF, Germany — The co-pilot at the controls of the crashed German jetliner had informed Lufthansa in 2009 about his depressive episodes when he was seeking to rejoin the airline’s flight school after a months-long pause in his studies, the company said in a statement Tuesday.

Lufthansa said that it had shared with prosecutors email correspondence between the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, and the flight training school, which included medical records about a “deep depressive episode.”

French prosecutors said that Mr. Lubitz apparently crashed the Airbus A320 jet of Germanwings, a Lufthansa subsidiary, into the French Alps intentionally on March 24, killing all 150 people on board. Prosecutors in Germany said Monday that that he had been treated for suicidal tendencies.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/world/europe/lufthansa-germanwings-andreas-lubitz.html?module=Notification&version=BreakingNews&region=FixedTop&action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=31841517&pgtype=Homepage

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Short story; that's all folks.

[cosmicone]

1. If this is true

Lufthansa is in much deeper shit. Punitive damages may apply.

[Surya Gayatri]

2. Deep, deep doo-doo.

Good-bye, Germanwings!

This may cost so much that they'll have to put it into receivership.

This is going to resonate across the aviation industry worldwide, as well it should.

[cosmicone]

3. Hopefully it will lead to stricter psychological screenings

and better mental health treatment for those ailing.

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Oh my dear cosmicone, if only you knew how I've been arguing

myself blue in the face in favor of that proposition!

Against pitched opposition from the pro-mental health privacy contingent on this board.

I've been accused of:

1) equating mental illness with violence,

2) advocating forced, universal mental health monitoring and reporting.

And on and on. My discussion of the topic has been qualified as a witch hunt, as well.

[cosmicone]

8. I am sympathetic to people who suffer from depression

but public interest should always trump personal interest. One person's right to privacy is subordinate to the lives of a large group of people.

[Surya Gayatri]

9. Preach it sister/brother...you've taken the words right off of one of my posts.

[elleng]

13. Darn right.

[elleng]

10. I don't know about 'stricter monitoring,'

just required disclosure by medical folks with 'important' and potentially threatening information.

No witches here, Surya, and thanks for following this.

[Surya Gayatri]

12. Thanks for the positive take, elleng...

[quadrature]

4. Lufthansa will be soo-ed out of existence.

and replaced by Dumb and Dumber's
Cut-Rate Airlines.
kinda sad.

[Surya Gayatri]

7. Sooo true. A little more preventive screening might have saved their bacon.

Case of opening medical files after plane has gone down.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. I doubt it

They are the largest airline in Europe and have only been private over the past 20 years. They will be sued no doubt, but I expect the German government will step in as well to maintain the airline.

[elleng]

16. I agree.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. I expect this little bargain subsidiary owned by them may take the hit

but Lufthansa will probably restructure them and continue to fly its popular routes under a different name/entity.

[elleng]

18. Yes, and with better medical 'oversight.'

[BumRushDaShow]

19. That's a given (considering the news that came out today about that).

[Blue_Tires]

22. Germanwings is already under a rebranding/restructuring

Soon they will be "Eurowings"

[BumRushDaShow]

37. There you have it. nt

[marble falls]

5. Just in case, I still don't want flight crews with firearms. Two in the cabin sounds like a good ...

first step.

And screenings, of course.

[get the red out]

14. Two in the cabin is a great idea

This will surely be adopted world-wide after this tragedy.

[SoapBox]

20. May I correct to say, two persons in the cockpit.

I and my fellow employees were shocked to learn of the cockpit procedures by these carriers.

Without too much discussion of U.S. Carrier procedures, we all thought that other carriers in the world would have this same post 9/11 procedures.

And, after the media blathered so much information, I anticipate process changes...hey media, there are times that "loose lips, sink ships".

[appalachiablue]

32. Moi aussi, me too. Astounded to learn that the 2 person in the cockpit rule that we have in the US

wasn't the case in Europe. Unbelievable, and a such a small, easy change to make with no cost- no hiring any more staff, just use a flt. attendant for the few moments that a pilot is away from the cockpit for God's sake!

[marble falls]

39. Corrected! I was shocked to learn that the air marshals I trusted for decades had actually been ....

taken off flights by Reagan.

[KMOD]

15. Suicidal tendencies would have disqualified him in the US,

but depression alone is not an automatic disqualifier.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

[SoapBox]

23. Correct.

And I would side with pilots here, that will have some apprehension about "psychological" evaluation type stuff...it would be terrible to cause a loss of career over false charges.

I would agree that there may need to be requirements (conflicting with HIPAA regulations) on reporting some information (psychological), if the person is in certain "security and safety" positions...let's start with politicians and police.

Of course, persons with issues, may never disclose their job or could seek treatment out of the country.

[appalachiablue]

24. Thanks for this important info. More thorough checks on people in safety occupations are

critical but not more people stigmatized for mental health issues and denied employment, housing and other rights. Widespread education about this sensitive topic would help but doubt that would happen given the way matters are presently which is ultraconservative and about the dominant rights of corporations, the power of money and not people. On CNN last night there was a very qualified expert, a medical examiner from the NTSB, National Transportation Safety Board who brought up how many pilots and drivers do not note their DUIs, medications and domestic abuse allegations on forms. Something to keep in mind.

[SoapBox]

28. I would add to more checks on safety sensitive workers...

Extreme caution!

This in relation to drug and alcohol testing, mandatory random testing, currently still in place for those in certain safety and security positions, at U.S. carriers...

Where many lost their jobs, when it was finally discovered that a lab (or labs), contracted by the airlines, had been FALSIFYING, test results!

It was awful for people that were accused of having taken medications or drugs, legal or illegal, that they should not have taken. Very few were able to get their jobs back.

And, if you were fired for a true positive or a false positive, you are banned for life from those jobs in the U.S.

THAT is why I have apprehension about coming up with psychological stuff, without critical processes and appeal procedures.

[appalachiablue]

33. This is one of the reasons some analysts have brought up the government doing the screening.

I wonder what airline did that and when, changing test results and firing people. Even if it was proved years later they were damaged- bad, bad. Politicians and police should definitely be cleared by background info. But the stigma and ignorance need to be dealt with somehow-

[quadrature]

21. is there a way to avoid suicidal pilots?

maybe an app, or something?

pilot medical info needs to be public

[elleng]

25. NOT public, NOT AT ALL,

their docs should be required to inform the EMPLOYERS and NOT rely on the pilots to oversee themselves in these situations.

[Nihil]

40. DFTT

(He's a long-term random noise generator )

[SoapBox]

26. Well...

I don't know if it needs to be public (since we can't even find out info about cops that gun people down) but....

Companies need to be held very responsible for not taking actions when they find out that they have a pilot with severe issues.

Terrifying, but I'm not even surprised, that the carrier knew of issues with this pilot.

Whether we will ever hear exactly what the company knew and what was contained in his personal file, only time will tell.

[elleng]

30. Yes, the companies need to be held responsible, re: 'severe issues.'

[HockeyMom]

27. Read on Aviation site

that there is a designation on a pilot's license for mental health treatment. SIU? Lubitz had it from his flight school training in Arizona so Lufthansa had to know it.

[elleng]

29. 'Mental health treatment' designation is nowhere near enough,

given the facts here, 'medical records about a “deep depressive episode.”'

[SoapBox]

31. whoa...

And as a fly on the wall, I would be curious to have seen and heard interactions in the cockpit as well as what Captains would say about him after work.

Was he friendly, professional, chatty, quiet...or did he act strange, odd and/or peculiar? How many Captains were surprised by all of this or would they say, I knew it.

[HockeyMom]

34. Flight recorder transcripts

of the conversations at first were very friendly. Reports said when the pilot starting talking about the landing procedures Lubitz's responses were "curt". Sounds like premeditation. I don't care about landing because we are not going to land???

I read this on British and German media, which are both giving far more details than US media. Same with the anti-depressant meds found in his apartment.

[appalachiablue]

35. There was a situtation some years ago, at Dulles-DC maybe where an airline gate agent did notify

about a pilot going on board who was drunk. That was an immediate and obvious situation. You can often smell the alcohol and observe how a person is intoxicated, unfit to work.

[KMOD]

36. This was from before they knew it was intentional, but here's a fellow pilot on Lubitz

Fellow Germanwings pilot Frank Woiton, who also lives in Montabaur, said he had flown with Lubitz three weeks ago and had left him in sole charge of the controls.

“He talked about his training and how happy he was. He said that he wanted to fly long-haul and become a captain. He had mastered flying and was in control. That’s why I also left him alone in the cockpit to go to the toilet.”


Woiton has become a hero in Germany after volunteering to fly the same Barcelona to Düsseldorf route as the crashed Airbus A320 on Thursday. A passenger, Britta Englisch, took another flight piloted by him between Hamburg and Cologne.

She wrote on Facebook that Woiton had personally addressed the passengers from the front of the plane and told them that he and the crew were there by choice, that they had families of their own, and would do everything in their power to be with them again that evening. The passengers applauded wildly.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/andreas-lubitzs-hometown-condemns-rush-to-judge-germanwings-co-pilot

[JudyM]

38. Wait, what? A pilot decides on the fly (so to speak) that the copilot is competent enough

to allow him to use the restroom?!!!! So he has flown with others who were not so competent and so he 'held it' for the duration of the trip?

Are there no standards?!