Investigators focus on German co-pilot's mental state

[Surya Gayatri]

Source: AP News (excite)

MARSEILLE, France (AP) — A French police official says European investigators are focusing on the psychological state of the 27-year-old German co-pilot who deliberately smashed an Airbus carrying 150 people into an Alpine mountainside.

Returning Monday from a meeting with counterparts in Germany, judicial police investigator Jean-Pierre Michel told The Associated Press that authorities want to find out "what could have destabilized Andreas Lubitz, or driven him to such an act."

Lubitz was the co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525, which slammed into a mountain near Le Vernet, France, last week en route from Barcelona, Spain, to Duesseldorf, Germany.

Germanwings chief operating officer Oliver Wagner was meeting with relatives of the victims Monday in the southeastern French city of Marseille. He said a total of 325 family members have come to France.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20150330/eu-france-plane-crash-5918a4e563.html

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I understand the French prosecutor has announced a new press conference for later today. Following story here in France...

[Demeter]

1. Psychopaths aren't destabilized--they are enabled

by people trusting them. And then they violate that trust.

[Surya Gayatri]

2. Exploitating and violating trust is what they do...

Nobody from official quarters has put the 'psychopath' label on him yet, but I fear that that will be the ultimate conclusion of their investigations.

Hence, my argument for 'mandatory health monitoring and reporting' in sensitive industries.

This is NOT the case under Germany's present draconian privacy laws.

[Fumesucker]

19. There are some fields in which a sociopath can do a great deal of damage and be respected for it

What is the most "sensitive industry" in the world in terms of one person being able to do the most amount of damage to their fellow humans if it is their aim to do so?

[Surya Gayatri]

20. Now, there's a conversation starter: "What is the most "(safety) sensitive industry"?

One where a sole individual has the immediate life or death fate of several hundred people in his/her hands?

One where people's very survival at one moment hinges on instantaneous, clear-headed thinking?

[HereSince1628]

4. Wanting to understand motivations is obviously of interest

It's uncertain how this will turn out, and mental disorder might be a factor...

but it's necessary to remember that not all deviant and/or criminal behavior is rooted in mental illness.

Deviant behavior and criminal behavior don't of necessity originate in cognition distorted or influenced by a mental disorder.

The presence of behavior or demeanor that may be a symptom of disorder doesn't always equate with the presence of a disorder. The natural range of emotions and behaviors of humans spans the entire range of potential emotions. Sadness doesn't mean a state of clinical depression exists. Expression of anger or a reactive act of defensiveness doesn't mean a person has an anti-social personality.

The very act of disparaging labeling of a person with an ensign of psychological deviance, such as name calling a person as a psychopath is a reactive act of defensiveness. Yet persons casting out assertions of psychopathy probably wouldn't think themselves so afflicted.

Crashing a passenger plane is a terrible act, but people are capable of terrible acts for various reasons.

Our desire to know the reason motivates us into acceptance of suggested reasons that conform with our pre-existing beliefs and understanding of potential dangers.

But this process can be turned on it's head...an accepted danger can be assumed a priori --i.e. because what sane person would crash a plane?"--hallmarks of the danger can be sought to confirm our biases, which are then invoked with undo confidence to provide an answer for causation of a tragedy.

This doesn't necessarily lead to a logical or well constrained answer...but it does usually function to justify our a priori beliefs and biases, and give us satisfaction of knowing how to remain -safe-. And it can be done with surprisingly little actual evidence.

There is time for the investigation to run it's course. And in that course there will be opportunity for careful assessments of the co-pilot's health by persons with the necessary background and access to carefully developed information to do that task well.

[GliderGuider]

5. +1 An eloquently balanced, reasonable view.

It needed to be said. Thank you!

[Demeter]

6. Since I married (and divorced) a psychopath, I think I know whereof I speak

and your wishy-washy "theorizing" doesn't impress me.

Psychopathy is a character disorder...not a mental disorder. There is no treatment for it that my efforts ever uncovered, and believe me, I was desperate for a solution...or a management program, or anything!

[mopinko]

8. thank you.

sigh. hoping this gets wrapped up and off the front page soon.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

15. In a perfect world perhaps

I seriously doubt a timely investigation into the murderer's mental health issues will yield much if anything helpful inso
far as why it is he did what he did. My guess is his reasoning was revenge motivation.
There is no cure or treatment for the incurable narcissistic sociopath. And nothing can prepare one for the kinds of terrible deeds such
a type is capable of .

He was a cold blooded revenge motivated killer,the worst of the worst. A screen shielder .That's my take on it.

[jakeXT]

3. No more "searching" for the FDR ? /nt

[Surya Gayatri]

7. FYI, from the Guardian...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/30/germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-treated-suicidal-tendencies

Rescuers are still, however, to locate the plane’s second black box — its flight data recorder — six days after the Barcelona to Düsseldorf flight crashed into a rocky ravine at 435mph (700km/h).

The black box, which is actually orange and weighs around 10kg, was originally in a protective casing, but only the empty casing has been found.

Capt Yves Naffrechoux, a mountain ranger, told Agence France-Presse: “If it has not been completely destroyed or pulverised, the black box will be under the rubble and debris. We must work with caution and a lot of precision. We have to look under every last bit of plane and lift every rock.”

[jakeXT]

9. "only the empty casing has been found"

I don't like that one....

[Surya Gayatri]

10. Yes, that implies that the contents will have been severely damaged...

[jtuck004]

11. More propaganda, guilt by association. The Fascists would be proud of this. n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

12. Further update on the prosecutor's findings:

Germanwings: Andreas Lubitz 'had treatment for suicidal tendencies' - BBC News

'The co-pilot of the crashed Germanwings plane, Andreas Lubitz, had received treatment for suicidal tendencies years ago, investigators have said, but not in recent doctor visits. Officials in Duesseldorf said that the investigation had so far shown no clue to any motive. So far, DNA strands of 80 of the victims have been found.'

Corroboration:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/30/germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-treated-suicidal-tendencies
http://www.dw.de/germanwings-co-pilot-treated-for-suicidal-tendencies/a-18349888
________________

Sorry, but I fail to see how, in the present circumstances, investigating his psychological background can be construed in any way as 'fascist'.

[jtuck004]

13. People with mental illness live in fear of unsubstantiated accusations such as yours all the

time.

Interesting to see that DU isn't above the kind of beating up on people who can't answer for themselves being done here.

I just want to make sure there is one person on record who doesn't appreciate your little witch hunt.

If you think I am wrong in telling you how abhorrent this is, I would be more than happy for you to send this to a jury, see if you can find some more jack-booted thugs to help beat up on folks who are ill.

[Surya Gayatri]

14. Beg to differ with your assertion that reporting on this

constantly evolving story is a 'witchhunt'.

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141052971#post2

[HereSince1628]

16. Your thinking seems to rests upon one of the basic myths about mental disorders...

"Once a person has had a mental disorder, they will never recover from it."


All that is needed to keep such a myth a substitute for truth is a handful of statistically unrepresentative events with suggestive evidence.

Moreover because of the way the television coverage of this is transpiring we are faced with post hoc proctor hoc thinking, that stems from the a priori assumption that "no sane person would crash a passenger jet" Once a search is started with the conclusion already in hand, all that is needed is information that is suggestive to be processed by confirmation bias to have validation of the a prior assumption as 'truth'.

The coverage for this crash seems oddly revealing of private medical data that typically is held close until the conclusion of investigations. Because what is NOT wanted is for false reports to be put into play by attention seekers, people with grievances etc. What we are watching - is - unsual despite your protest above. It's almost as if some agent -desires- the blame of the event to be turned specifically toward the pilot rather than others. And many people , including it seems you, are apparently quite willing to employ arm-chair psychology and their acquired popular mythology to get to the place the media is sending viewers.

But what I think is largely over-looked in peoples' righteous anger over the notion of pilots with acute and serious mental disorders is that -if- this event was a consequence of some mental illness it is statistically quite unusual. It's unusual for pilots and aircrashes and it's pretty atypical for suicides to involve the deaths of over one hundred strangers

Very rare events shouldn't really be assumed to taint/stigmatize airline safety, Germanwings pilot rules, psychologists who screen pilots, or for that matter, the mentally ill. There are over 60 million people in the US
who each year have mental illness. Depression and anxiety are very common affecting about 20 million Americans each year, and we really don't see anything like epidemic waves of transit employees with mental illness killing their passengers. We -do- see extraordinary unemployment rates among persons with histories of mental illness and much of that is a consequence of prejudice and discrimination in the workplace by just ordinary folks acting on mistaken understanding and popular mythology.


It's quite understandable that people are shocked and frightened by this, still not fully understood, event. But there is yet no reason to believe that something new has happened that somehow opens air-travel to new and much greater dangers. As the shock subsides, as all stages of the review move toward conclusion recommendations for preventing similar events (a pilot intentionally downing an aircraft) will be made and implemented. These may relate to psychological evaluations of crew, they may relate to physical barriers that allowed the co-pilot to bar the door, or they may related to changes in the number and type of flight deck employees who must be present during flight.

[Surya Gayatri]

17. Has anyone ever suggested that you have a tendency to write unreadably

longwinded, pseudo-intellectual punditry?

No? Well, consider the suggestion...

And in the meantime, read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026438171
Air disaster (4U9525) coverage shows that depression is still stigmatized

[HereSince1628]

18. Name calling is as revealling as reliance on myth

It's often done by people who have nothing else.

[Surya Gayatri]

21. I was taught never to call names, and I don't.

Neither do I use rhetorical flourishes to impress people with my superior intellectual prowess.

I was taught that it's not nice to show off...