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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:12 AM Mar 2015

Queensland researchers prove Albert Einstein wrong

Source: The Australian

Scientists have achieved the rare distinction of proving Albert Einstein wrong, in a demonstration of the now widely accepted theory of quantum mechanics.

Researchers from Queensland and Japan have resolved a longstanding hurdle to the 91-year-old theory — Einstein’s 1927 thought experiment that disparaged quantum mechanics as “spooky action at a distance”.

The new study, published overnight in the journal Nature Communications, could also help researchers develop ultra-secure means of communicating.

<snip>

Five years ago, the Griffith team conceived a way to “rigorously test” Einstein’s objection — splitting a single photon between two laboratories, and experimentally testing whether measurement in one laboratory caused a change in the photon’s quantum state in the other laboratory.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/queensland-researchers-prove-albert-einstein-wrong/story-e6frg8y6-1227276909773



If the article is paywalled, try the links on their official twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/australian/status/580363754140995584

The AustralianVerified account ?@australian

Queensland researchers prove Albert Einstein wrong http://bit.ly/1Hw9Dub

View on web http://t.co/wmjnHlTac9


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Queensland researchers prove Albert Einstein wrong (Original Post) bananas Mar 2015 OP
Experimental proof of nonlocal wavefunction collapse for a single particle using homodyne measuremen bananas Mar 2015 #1
Maybe this will help collapse the Scott Walker wavefunction. postulater Mar 2015 #3
So if I read the abstract right dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #4
Looks like quantum entanglement CaptainTruth Mar 2015 #7
Here's the experiment I was previously aware of dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #31
I envision the quantum world controlled by a massive "quantum database" linked to every particle. DCBob Mar 2015 #19
Whether or not Einstien was right or wrong about this IsItJustMe Mar 2015 #26
I don't really understand what the results of the experiment showed. loudsue Mar 2015 #2
If I understand the theory of Quantum Entanglement right. Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #5
Yes, as far as we know the collapse of the quantum state is "instant." CaptainTruth Mar 2015 #8
Wow...the implications of that are staggering. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2015 #12
But doesn't it require a lot of "work" to get those particles that far apart? erronis Mar 2015 #15
Nah caraher Mar 2015 #22
And how long would it take to get a photon from one edge of the universe to the other? erronis Mar 2015 #23
Spanning the universe - yes, that's a challenge! caraher Mar 2015 #24
Thanks for the Age of Entanglement link erronis Mar 2015 #25
Photons travel at speed of light. Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #35
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do the particles become "entangled" in the first place? nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #42
irregardless is not the word you want. mopinko Mar 2015 #11
Well, actually Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #13
i know. mopinko Mar 2015 #14
"Irregardless" is a double negative gregcrawford Mar 2015 #17
obviously i am not a stickler. mopinko Mar 2015 #18
Out of curiosity, do you ever hear 'pry-ee' instead of 'prolly'? I have not heard 'prolly'... xocet Mar 2015 #30
so, similarly, inflammable means not flammable? rogerashton Mar 2015 #27
Since when is "IRR-(sic)" a negative prefix? xocet Mar 2015 #28
It is a word I have heard and used to use. Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #34
No, it can't be used for signaling caraher Mar 2015 #20
I'm not sure about that. Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #33
It would have to be based on heretofore unknown physics caraher Mar 2015 #36
I started my professional life as a Data Systems Technician in the US Navy. Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #38
There's a lot of difference between Moore's Law and this caraher Mar 2015 #40
Yeah, but Einstein knew he was wrong. bemildred Mar 2015 #6
given the # of times einstein has been "proven wrong", only to end up right... Colorado Vince Mar 2015 #9
+1 for your (and my) skepticism. Always a good thing. erronis Mar 2015 #16
Einstein was wrong about a lot of things caraher Mar 2015 #21
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine; Danascot Mar 2015 #10
"Queerer" in the original version. DavidDvorkin Mar 2015 #29
Does this mean a voter in California hits a touch screen for Nader will it cause a vote in Iowa for CK_John Mar 2015 #32
Has this been independently validated by Dr Sheldon Cooper and his team? itsrobert Mar 2015 #37
Aussies should stick to trying to split the beer atom. anAustralianobserver Mar 2015 #39
Looks like witchcraft to me! Kaleva Mar 2015 #41

bananas

(27,509 posts)
1. Experimental proof of nonlocal wavefunction collapse for a single particle using homodyne measuremen
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:19 AM
Mar 2015
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150324/ncomms7665/full/ncomms7665.html

Experimental proof of nonlocal wavefunction collapse for a single particle using homodyne measurements

Maria Fuwa, Shuntaro Takeda, Marcin Zwierz, Howard M. Wiseman, Akira Furusawa

Nature Communications 6,
Article number: 6665
doi:10.1038/ncomms7665

Received 02 October 2014
Accepted 18 February 2015
Published 24 March 2015

Abstract

A single quantum particle can be described by a wavefunction that spreads over arbitrarily large distances; however, it is never detected in two (or more) places. This strange phenomenon is explained in the quantum theory by what Einstein repudiated as ‘spooky action at a distance’: the instantaneous nonlocal collapse of the wavefunction to wherever the particle is detected. Here we demonstrate this single-particle spooky action, with no efficiency loophole, by splitting a single photon between two laboratories and experimentally testing whether the choice of measurement in one laboratory really causes a change in the local quantum state in the other laboratory. To this end, we use homodyne measurements with six different measurement settings and quantitatively verify Einstein’s spooky action by violating an Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen-steering inequality by 0.042±0.006. Our experiment also verifies the entanglement of the split single photon even when one side is untrusted.



postulater

(5,075 posts)
3. Maybe this will help collapse the Scott Walker wavefunction.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:40 AM
Mar 2015

He has been quite nonlocal lately, out of state 'not-running' for president while Wisconsin collapses into Mississippi.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
4. So if I read the abstract right
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 07:02 AM
Mar 2015

it says they have verified entanglement, which was required by quantum theory but which Einstein was always skeptical of. I thought this had already been proven and demonstrated.

There was a DU OP on this last year, interesting to read this. I am way over my head on this issue, but like to try to understand as much as I can about the context we live in. When I first read up on entanglement it absolutely blew my mind, amazing if true.

Is Quantum Entanglement Real?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106939

CaptainTruth

(6,601 posts)
7. Looks like quantum entanglement
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:15 AM
Mar 2015

Which has been demonstrated at least dozens of times, even in labs several km apart.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
19. I envision the quantum world controlled by a massive "quantum database" linked to every particle.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:29 PM
Mar 2015

So distance and time wouldn't matter. The states of associated particles would be tracked and maintained in the "database" no matter how far apart they are. I think God is a DBA in addition to being a programmer. IMHO.

IsItJustMe

(7,012 posts)
26. Whether or not Einstien was right or wrong about this
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:35 PM
Mar 2015

He was one heck of a philosopher. One famous phrase of his was (paraphrasing) I know of two things which are infinite. The universe and mans stupidity.

I think of that quote often when I read the news.

loudsue

(14,087 posts)
2. I don't really understand what the results of the experiment showed.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:32 AM
Mar 2015

I wish I could read more, but they all cost $$.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
5. If I understand the theory of Quantum Entanglement right.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 07:28 AM
Mar 2015

Last edited Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

This is an "regardless of the distance of the separation" sort of thing. If that is so,we could have real time communications with probes sent into space. No time lag of signals. I see that as the most profound aspect of this.

CaptainTruth

(6,601 posts)
8. Yes, as far as we know the collapse of the quantum state is "instant."
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 09:00 AM
Mar 2015

So, the entangled particles could be on opposite sides of the universe & a change in one particle is instantly reflected in the other. No speed-of-light delay, it's as if the space between the particles doesn't exist.

Last year China announced plans to build a QE communications network, two base stations hundreds of km apart (or more) & a satellite.

The military implications are interesting because according to the laws of physics a QE communications network is unhackable. Observing the signal in any way changes the signal.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
12. Wow...the implications of that are staggering.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 11:11 AM
Mar 2015

Both is practical concepts and ideas for further studies.

erronis

(15,333 posts)
15. But doesn't it require a lot of "work" to get those particles that far apart?
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:10 PM
Mar 2015

I'm guessing that this cosmic entanglement comes with some costs that will make the spooky effect at a distance difficult/expensive if the distance is substantial. Perhaps even expending this cost becomes part of the overall equation of how this effect works.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
22. Nah
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:47 PM
Mar 2015

If your particles are photons (and they will be for such applications), you use an optical fiber (though fibers that maintain polarization states are much more expensive). Or you can send them across free space.

The main problem is just that you can't send a signal that way, as the joint measurement outcomes are random even though the individual results are perfectly correlated. It's like saying I can encode a message using a series of coin flips - yes, those can be rendered as binary 0 and 1 digits, but the sequence is where the message would be and the sequence is random.

erronis

(15,333 posts)
23. And how long would it take to get a photon from one edge of the universe to the other?
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 01:18 PM
Mar 2015

And aren't there some perturbations (dust, gravity waves, etc.) wot would make that trip somewhat problematic? And once there, how would we actually measure the "effect at a distance"? Another round trip of information (at what cost)?

Since I never graduated high-school (US) I'm going to give up now but I'm still intrigued by how things that are hard to explain often have another explanation.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
24. Spanning the universe - yes, that's a challenge!
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 01:34 PM
Mar 2015

With all these experiments, the verification step is just as you picture it - you need to exchange information again. Generally all the experiments to date involve some kind of "classical" channel (which can be as simple as Alice and Bob - the people performing measurements - exchanging physical notebooks, emails, whatever).

I don't think graduating high school is the crucial thing here - you can go pretty far on curiosity! A great, accessible book with a quasi-historical development of these ideas is Louisa Gilder's "Age of Entanglement."

erronis

(15,333 posts)
25. Thanks for the Age of Entanglement link
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 01:51 PM
Mar 2015

I'm a book gourmand and so it shall join my groaning bedside table.

While I've managed to never finish any prescribed degree programs, I've been able to work quite lucratively in the computer field for 40+ years and actually teach a few university courses. You're right, curiosity is the main ingredient.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
35. Photons travel at speed of light.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:29 PM
Mar 2015

So four years to reach Alpha Centauri. So this becomes a "from here forward" thing.

But, now we know it can happen; the question arises, "Has it already happened"?
Followed by, Does it occur in nature?
How would we detect it?
How do we use it?
Considering the largest quantity of anything in the Universe is Dark Energy, Is there a "dark" equivalent of a photon?
Just the start of the millions of potential questions we might answer.

mopinko

(70,221 posts)
11. irregardless is not the word you want.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 10:31 AM
Mar 2015

unless you wish to negate the word regardless.
sorry to be a grammer nazi. not something i usually do.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
17. "Irregardless" is a double negative
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:15 PM
Mar 2015

The negative prefix, "IRR-" and the negative suffix, "-LESS" essentially cancel each other out, making the word meaningless.

If someone says they "don't got none," which is a double negative phrase, it is not unreasonable to question their literacy. Using nonsense words like "irregardless" is no less indicative of a limited vocabulary and a tenuous grasp of proper grammar. And don't EVEN get me started on "nuclear/nuke-ular!"

Good grammar matters. Some grammarians make excuses for those who cannot speak their native language properly, which degrades the quality and accuracy of communication. For instance, imply and infer are NOT interchangeable synonyms. To imply is to suggest, to infer is to deduce. Two five-letter, two-syllable words beginning in "I" with no other relationship to one another, and two completely different definitions.

"Less" and "Fewer" are also frequently misused, even by those, like journalists and writers, who should know better. Less refers to volume, fewer refers to quantity or number. "FEWER people drink LESS milk."

"Hone" in is often used when the writer should say, "Home" in. Hone means to sharpen, as in "to hone a knife, or one's skills." The phrase, "home in" is derived from the homing pigeon's ability to find its way HOME over great distances.

Okay, I'm done. But you get my point, right?

So, I'm with you, Mo, though maybe I'm a little less tolerant of "grammar thingies!"

But Einstein, he be cool, don't he?

mopinko

(70,221 posts)
18. obviously i am not a stickler.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:28 PM
Mar 2015

i enjoy the evolution of language that is happening these days, and use a lot of abbreviations and slurred words like prolly. but i do it to effect. what i mean is quite clear.
people can infer my meaning easily. yeah, i hate that one, too.



xocet

(3,872 posts)
30. Out of curiosity, do you ever hear 'pry-ee' instead of 'prolly'? I have not heard 'prolly'...
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 03:25 PM
Mar 2015

...in use* but have heard and do hear 'pry-ee' quite frequently.


*'Prolly' has never been noticed at least.

xocet

(3,872 posts)
28. Since when is "IRR-(sic)" a negative prefix?
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 03:14 PM
Mar 2015

Further, do you really believe that words that contain two negative affixes can possess no meaning?

How about unanesthetized? Does it have a meaning? Yes, it does:



Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
34. It is a word I have heard and used to use.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:16 PM
Mar 2015

Upon your observation, I checked Webster's and learned something new.
Thanks.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
20. No, it can't be used for signaling
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:41 PM
Mar 2015

The collapse is "instantaneous" but random. You can do things like generate a random encryption key, but you don't get to pick the result of the measurement in your lab that "collapses" the wave function in a distant location.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
33. I'm not sure about that.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:14 PM
Mar 2015

I read lot of good work is being done around photons (ie. relationships with massfree electrical charges). We humans are fairly clever. I can envision some aspect of photons being exploited for communications in the future.

The DoD is looking into using this for a hack proof communication network. If they work that out, the experiment is simple.
Synchronize a pair of clocks. Send one into space aimed straight out of the Solar System. Compare the base line clock with the transmitted signal from the other clock.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
36. It would have to be based on heretofore unknown physics
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 06:55 PM
Mar 2015

The way the whole entanglement thing works is largely independent of how you choose to "tickle" the entangled particles. What matters is whether you make a measurement of the relevant properties.

To send a signal, you need a method for imprinting the bits comprising your signal on the signal medium. The enticing prospect is to say that I could create an entangled state in one location and send photons in opposite directions. What is true and weird and amazing is this: measurements at one location and time are not independent of measurements made at a location and time such that they could not be "causally connected" (meaning that no lightspeed signal could connect those events).

BUT... those measurements are, individually, utterly random. So if you're on Earth and I'm out by Alpha Centauri you might read a string of polarizations that you translate into binary digits 100110000111001010... and I can make measurements in my location that read out exactly that same string 100110000111001010... But neither of us gets to choose the value of even a single bit of that string! Sending a signal with some real information content demands a way of ensuring that I measure the value for the bit that you want me to measure.

The trouble is, as soon as you do something that guarantees the outcome of my measurement, that breaks the entanglement. You need something other than the tools of quantum theory.

Now there are lots of protocols for eavesdropper-proofing the generation and exchange of encryption keys. This is the kind of thing DOD is doing, and it works in part because random numbers make wonderful encryption keys. It's a case where the randomness I mention is not a bug, it's a feature!

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
38. I started my professional life as a Data Systems Technician in the US Navy.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:09 PM
Mar 2015

The computers I learned and repaired were Sperry Univac 642B's. They were the size of a refrigerator, used as much power as 2 modern 5000btu window air conditioners, and were as smart as my current microwave oven. My first generation smart phone has over 20 times the computing power and memory the entire bank of 642Bs aboard the USS Eisenhower did in 1980.
And yet the physics behind electronics stayed the same. We humans became exponentially better at using it.

Caraher, I swear to you I'm not arguing for arguments sake. I have watched us break impossible barriers time after time. Too many of us look at lines in the sand as challenges.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
40. There's a lot of difference between Moore's Law and this
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:51 PM
Mar 2015

I guess my main point is this: I happily admit it's possible that there could emerge new physics that supplants what we know about quantum mechanics. But the ideas of harnessing entanglement for communications being batted around in this discussion presume that quantum theory as currently understood might allow for it. That isn't the case. For a clever tinkerer to enable FTL signaling would require a change in our most basic understanding of how the quantum world works.

This is something very different from the Moore's Law explosion in computing power you describe. There is a long history of people predicting various physical limits that would likely halt those advances, and those limits being overcome or evaded in unforeseeable ways. But those were all objections of the "I don't see (today) how one would ever work around (putative limit)" variety. Throughout this entire history of advancement, as you note correctly, every device created operated under the same set of physical principles completed with the development of quantum mechanics in the late 1920s. None of the advances entailed overthrowing a fundamental law of nature. They were rapid, breathtaking advances, but they were also evolutionary changes made atop an essentially unchanged underlying physics paradigm.

FTL signaling pretty much requires something fundamentally new. That could happen, but it's a very different game!

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. Yeah, but Einstein knew he was wrong.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:11 AM
Mar 2015

The real problem is the assumption that a photon must be a particle or a wave, it is both, and it can be both, at the same time.

 

Colorado Vince

(99 posts)
9. given the # of times einstein has been "proven wrong", only to end up right...
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 09:22 AM
Mar 2015

Please pardon my skepticism.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
21. Einstein was wrong about a lot of things
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:43 PM
Mar 2015

There's the crackpot's version of "I've proven Einstein wrong" (usually on something related to relativity).

But Einstein never did quite accept what became the mainstream physics view of quantum mechanics, so really pretty much every practicing physicist has no trouble coming up with well-accepted things about which Einstein was wrong.

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
32. Does this mean a voter in California hits a touch screen for Nader will it cause a vote in Iowa for
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:35 PM
Mar 2015

say Pataki?

39. Aussies should stick to trying to split the beer atom.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:16 PM
Mar 2015

I kid my countrymen! Don't know what the experiment showed that is new, but this looks like a typical pop science article about it (in a News Corp paper btw - although one of the better ones, relatively speaking).

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