Netanyahu: If I'm elected, there will be no Palestinian state

[geek tragedy]

Source: Haaretz

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyhau said Monday that if he were to be reelected, a Palestinian state would not be created, in a definite disavowal of his 2009 speech, in which he had voiced support for the principle of two states for two peoples.

Netanyahu's remarks in an interview with the NRG website - which is owned by casino mogul Sheldon Adelson and tied with the settler newspaper Makor Rishon - were a last-minute attempt to pull right-wing voters away from Habayit Hayehudi.

"I think that anyone who moves to establish a Palestinian state and evacuate territory gives territory away to radical Islamist attacks against Israel," Netanyahu said. The left has buried its head in the sand time and after time and ignores this, but we are realistic and understand."

During the interview, Netanyahu declared that if the Zionist Union were to win the elections, "it would attach itself to the international community and do they bidding," including freezing construction in West Bank and East Jerusalem settlements, and cooperate with international initiatives to return Israel's borders to the 1967 lines.




Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-election-2015/1.647212

---

Apartheid now, apartheid tomorrow, apartheid forever.

The song is the same, though the singer is nominally different.

[winstars]

1. Jeeze, I really hope that the people of his country see this jerk off for what he is tomorrow....

I really do.

[geek tragedy]

2. If they don't, supporting Israel becomes morally indefensible nt

[winstars]

4. I hope that realize that it becomes about them stopping ANY peace process if they he wins again.

[karynnj]

23. I agree -- and see this as a desperation move on Netanyahu's part

It unfortunately might work. Supposedly what he aims to do is to shift enough voters from Bennet's ultra right wing party to Likud - hoping to gain about 4 more seats.

The reason is that this would close the likely gap with Herzog - and make it more likely that he gets to form the next government - which is now structurally easier from the right.

However, if they win, this is something that should greatly help the international Palestinian case and the BDS movement. This creates a huge problem for Obama. Morally, it is unacceptable, but politically calling them on it would be politically difficult. It will mean ANY peace efford should end because there would be no chance of success.

[still_one]

52. Then the same would apply to the U.S. if one of current republicans win in 2016 wouldn't it? It

means those that voted against them or Netenayaho(sic), are irrelevant, which is of course the same reasoning that republicans are taking with the Iranian religious leadership. It does not take into consideration the people who did not vote for him.

bush won twice. You might have an argument on the 2000 election, but not for the 2004 election, and if you look at the make-up of our Congress that at first glance has even more devastating things to say about the populace

[geek tragedy]

56. as bad as Bush was, apartheid is worse nt

[still_one]

57. Tell that to the million dead in Iraq. How about Viet Nam, or what we did in South America

Perhaps your memory is short regarding the bush administration, but not only did they NOT take over Israeli/Palestinian negotiations that Clinton had started, but effectively ignored any peace effort. They supported whatever the Netanyahu government wanted.

The bush administration actively sabotaged the sunshine talks between North and South Korea, and labelled Iran as part of the "axis of evil". Those same forces in Congress want us to invade Iran.

It may not be be quite Apartheid, but it comes as close to colonialism as there is.

[geek tragedy]

63. Bush actually favored a two-state solution.

He didn't pressure the Israelis at all, but then again neither has Obama really.

Iraq was and is a catastrophe.

[still_one]

64. actions spoke louder than words, and his actions counteracted all of that

In fact there hasn't been a President who has said they don't support a two state solution, however, the bush presidency was the only one in a long time that did not actively support negotiations. It was more than just dropping the ball

[liberalhistorian]

86. I considered it morally indefensible after

their Gaza destruction, that was the last straw for me. And six billion dollars of OUR tax money helped fund it. Yet, Bibi and his party constantly act like WE owe THEM. Fuck him and his party.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

41. I'm not sure that anything is really going to change WRT the Palestinians.

Herzon, livni, Nutty-yahoo.

They won't give anything back unless the rest of the world makes it painful to keep.

[mazzarro]

47. Totally agree with you on that!

Netanyahu is now giving voice to what has actually been the policy of Israel all along.

[Adrahil]

3. That man is evil. n/t

[hollysmom]

5. well, this is one time to hope the polls are right and

he will finally be thrown out. I just keep waiting forthis conservative war mongering to end, since it seems to sweep the world years ago.

[bravenak]

6. Something is wrong with him.

[Cal33]

20. You're right. Something is wrong with all extreme Right-Wingers.

[herding cats]

7. He's he's on quite a mission to remove all doubt of where he stands on the issue

I read this earlier.

At Campaign Stop, Netanyahu Admits Jerusalem Settlement Was Strategic

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel said on Monday that he had authorized construction of a Jerusalem neighborhood on land captured in the 1967 war to block the Palestinians from expanding Bethlehem, and to prevent a “Hamastan” from sprouting in the hills nearby.

Campaigning a day before what is expected to be a tight election, Mr. Netanyahu stood next to maps of the neighborhood, Har Homa. One showed it empty in 1997, before he approved building there, and another showed the area today, with roughly 4,000 apartments built and 2,000 more under construction or planned.

“It was a way of stopping Bethlehem from moving toward Jerusalem,” Mr. Netanyahu said of the construction. “This neighborhood, exactly because it stops the continuation of the Palestinians,” he added, “I saw the potential was really great.”

Mr. Netanyahu has long heralded Israel’s right to build anywhere in Jerusalem, but he generally says that his expansion of settlements — which most world leaders consider illegal — do not materially affect the map for a potential two-state solution to the conflict with the Palestinians. His acknowledgment that Har Homa was intended to disrupt Palestinian development between Bethlehem and Jerusalem — which the Palestinians see as their future capital — came as he sought to win back votes for his Likud Party and to take them from more conservative factions that oppose a Palestinian state.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/world/middleeast/benjamin-netanyahu-campaign-settlement.html?referrer=

He has to believe he has the best chance of forming a coalition. His current campaign revelations are not going to set well with Rivlin, but if he has a strong coalition that won't matter and he gets the added bonus of forcing Rivlin's hand in his favor.

[freshwest]

68. What the West won't admit: '...Jerusalem - which the Palestinians see as their future capital...'

This is the sticking point. Right now, it is supposed to be an international city or sorts, with protection to all factions. But neither side wants that, instead they want it to be theirs alone.

It's why I'm pessimistic about the highly touted two state solution. It applies a different logic that even those nations calling for it, would not allow within their own borders. So both sides, Palestinians and Israelis, show it the respect this pipe dream deserves, which is none. It is an attempt to tell people how to manage their internal affairs as if it's up for debate.

We can wail and call them names, but they are the ones killing each other for it and willing to die for it. Not us and not the West. Just imagine if another nation told us what to do inside our borders. We'd tell them to STFU.

Both sides take Western aid to continue to exist and to fight with each other. Both sides are allied with other nations who have brainwashed populations that say this is the be all end all until Kingdom Come. Why should they change to please us?

And we're not likely to give Israeli up anymore than the nations that support the Palestinans give up that land. The alleged 'holy' land that is so important to billions of people.

Far right voices, very extreme ones, want the Palestinians to leave, as they have stated that the people of Gaza only have to take the back door out of that territory to the Sinai, they'll even pay them to go. From the other side, the mantra's been that Palestinians want the Israelis 'driven out to the sea.'

If they have changed the policy, IDK, but not many people can ignore or forget what they have suffered at the hands of another. There is a lot of very bad blood between the two sides now.

I don't think Americans get the big picture there. Most of us came from abroad, and left our ancestral homes. We never looked back and would not think of going back to wherever and demand they take us back and make us whole for whatever we say we came here for, as many emigrated to NA in order to survive. Israel came out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, not out of European penance.

True, they advertised their flight there after WW2 but some were always there. They got along better then, but with more people, they wanted more space. It rings a bell with those who came here from Europe. Now it's coming with ISIS, which has been using the displaced to start and keeps on building itself up.

What I'm saying that Bibi is only speaking what he thinks will win and allow him to 'protect' Israel. In his way, though.

I hope that the Israelis don't fall for this fear talk, but they may. I just hope they don't and we can get these neo-cons off the world stage.

[brooklynite]

8. This is good news...

...it tells me he thinks he's lost the middle of the road voters, and his only path to a win is to round up as many hard-liners as possible.

[geek tragedy]

10. I hope you're right. nt

[freshwest]

80. Hopefully another political party there will find a way to address the

issues all sides can co-exist on a more equal footing and open the doors to each other.

For too long, the extremists have made that impossible.

When will the election results be out?

[BillZBubb]

9. At least Netanyahu is telling the truth for once.

The Israeli right and their American apologists have always hidden their true agenda. Intelligent people knew exactly what they are up to--unfortunately that leaves a huge number who buy the Likud propaganda.

If the Israelis elect Netanyahu, they cannot hide behind any phony excuses for their settlement actions. The world we see them for what they are.

[android fan]

19. And he won't be elected....

and that's the end result of his stupidity for the last few weeks.

[still_one]

60. hopefully, but just as here, I think there are no sure things

[Helen Borg]

11. Do they have electronic voting machines over there?

[starroute]

14. Not yet

It looks like they're working on it, but it's still a ways off.

[ann---]

12. Again, I will say it

I detest Nuttyahoo - he does not want peace. He wants America
to fight his war with Iran for him. I hope he loses big time.

[Ken Burch]

67. The thing is, you really CAN'T want peace if you lead the Likud Party.

Last edited Tue Mar 17, 2015, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)

That party's political survival in any form at all is contingent on Israel never ever being a nation that is not at war.

In a peaceful Israel, almost all of the Right would vanish from the political map.

Netanyahu knows this at the very core of his being.

That's why he doesn't care if Israelis keep dying.

[ann---]

89. Exactly.....

Not only Israelis will die if he gets his way and convinces the U.S. to bomb Iran for him.

[Martin Eden]

13. I seriously doubt there will be a Palestinian State, regardless

Have you ever seen a map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank? They're peppered throughout the territory, and the roads between them are controlled by Israel. How can a Palestinian State possibly be viable when it's sliced & diced like this, with large swaths off limits to Palestinians?

Obviously, one of two things would have to happen:
1) Israelis abandon those settlements, many of which are now multi-generational.
2) Israelis living within the borders of Palestine submit to the authority of the Palestinian State (Israel has no control).

Unless there is huge unforseen change in the political landscape or balance of power, I simply don't see either of those things happening.

I'm not saying I don't want it to happen; I'm just saying I don't see how it can happen.

[Comrade Grumpy]

15. Okay, time for a single state solution. Everyone votes.

That would be democratic. But it would be incompatible with a Jewish state.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. There are 1.7 million Arab Israeli citizens, part of what we are seeing with this election is

increased participation and more unity between the Arab Parties. This alliance of Arab Parties is likely to become the third largest voting block in their Parliament and play a key part in preventing Netanyahu's majority.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/world/middleeast/ayman-odeh-arab-alliance-rises-as-force-in-israel-vote.html

[Comrade Grumpy]

35. The vote needs to be extended to all residents of the occupied lands, too.

[Corey_Baker08]

16. Good Old Fashioned Fear To Scare Up Votes, Is Rove In His Campaign LOL...

I really hope he loses reelection...

[android fan]

17. Well, his polls are dropping like a stone...

so he's flailing right now, trying to grab votes..

Likudniks will not get the seats needed.

[sadoldgirl]

18. As far as I read about this

the Likud party under Begin stated the same thing
decades ago, hence no peace agreement.

So Bibi just made it very plain that Israel will try
to obtain all of Palestine,; what he did not state
is his plan for the Palestinians. Perhaps he does not
dare to admit to any plan at all, at least not yet.

[longship]

21. He's not just malevolent, he's utterly evil.

I hope Likud loses big.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. This is exactly why Bibi needs to be booted

If you're not open to a two state solution, you're not serious.

[Renew Deal]

24. Finally the truth about his views comes out

And I think he has the same approach to Iran.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Wow there must be truth to the polls if he's trying to shore up right-wing support.

Hopefully this signals the end of his career.

[libodem]

26. Plan on losing then merciless agitator

I can't believe your own God would allow you to destroy a race of people.

[AlbertCat]

29. I can't believe your own God would allow you to destroy a race of people.

Why is that?

He does it in the Bible.

[libodem]

31. Hmmm?

You are right. Good point. He has been a vengeful God. Must have him confused with the God of Revelations. Oh , oops that one wants to fry us all in a lake of fire. Oh, my, what a hole I have dug for myself here.

[BadGimp]

27. What's that smell?

oh yeah ...Desperation

[sinkingfeeling]

30. Here's hoping he's thrown out of office. But I do believe the GOP would

allow him to run for President of the USA in 2016.

[Scootaloo]

32. Not that there will be one under Herzog and Zipper, though

[geek tragedy]

33. No, but at least there's a tiny chance for dialogue. nt

[Scootaloo]

36. Oh yes. Talking about talks about talks to have talks about talks that may lead to talks about talks

Zipper's specialty!

[Aerows]

40. I'm pretty sure that is better than

retaliation for retaliation that leads to bombing, corpses, destruction and more corpses.

[Scootaloo]

46. Marginally

Considering the endless stalling (all while still expanding settlements in the west bank and maintaining the blockade on gaza) will eventually result in someone on the Palestinian side opening fire. And then it's back to the killing, and Herzog and Livni get to put on their sad puppy faces and claim 'there's no one to work with!"

It's a different path to the same goal - annihilation of palestine and dispersal and / or destruction of the Palestinian people.

[still_one]

62. Same logic some are using if Hillary becomes the nominee verses any of the republicans. It is BS

There are significant difference between Labor and Likud, just as there are major differences between Democrats and republicans, and failure to recognize those differences is willful ignorance of all the issues.

Herzog said he wants to try and negotiate peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Now you may cynically dis that, and ignore any of the efforts that labor tried to do, but that is like ignoring the differences between Democrats and republicans. There are real differences, and there is a real chance under labor that doesn't exist with the likud.

[Scootaloo]

65. There are no meaningful differences on the issue of Palestine

This has been demonstrated repeatedly.

I'll bet you hold out hope that someday Lucy will let Charlie brown kick the damn football.

[still_one]

66. you are wrong, and if Netanyahu loses you will see a renewed effort

[Scootaloo]

87. No, I'm not. i WISH I were wrong

We've seen Labor in power before. In fact Labor rule is a major reason things are as bad as they are now (likud did infkame the issue, but Labor set the balls rolling.)

Here's what will happen.

Labor will offer to talk to Abbas about "issues." If Abbas agrees to talk (he will, the Obama administration will put all kinds of strings on him to mandate it), then all that will happen is stalling for the duration of labor rule. Talks talking about talks about talking about talks. over the course of these talks, Israel will demand over and over to keep its now-expanded settlement blocks, and will offer some desert (selected by Israel) in exchange. Gaza will not be discussed, nor will Jerusalem, because just like likud, labor wants to treat these as separate from Palestine, in order to squeeze more concessions from the Palestinians in exchange for Palestinian rights. Talks will be cut short by the next Israeli election, which will go to the right because Israelis will have gotten all this time full of fearmongering that "the left" is "selling out" Israel.

It's a good cop bad cop routine; no matter which side is playing, the goal is to get the Palestinians to sell out and imprison themselves.

It's sort of like how here in the US, the Republicans fuck shit up, the Democrats get elected, enshrine several elements of fucked-upness as "the new normal" and then wait for the next time Republicans take office.

[albino65]

37. Perhaps it's time

for the United Nations to rescind the establishment of Israel as a nation and let them duke it out for that scrap of desert. They have no more right to it than any of the other Semitic people who have inhabited it for millennia.

[hack89]

76. Why not? A few nuclear bombs would resolve the matter pretty quickly. nt

[djean111]

38. As if he would stop at Palestine. n/t

[blkmusclmachine]

44. Nein!

[Chemisse]

39. He's hoping this will get the right-wingers out to vote.

I'm hoping this will get the LEFT-wingers out.

This guy has done a lot of damage to relations around the world, including bullish actions that have spurred a surge in Antisemitism in Europe.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

42. Perhaps Bibi hasn't gone far enough...?

Lieberman talked about chopping off Palestinian heads.

Maybe Nutty needs to outdo that?

[Botany]

43. Netanyahu: If I'm elected, there will be no PEACE

If Bibi and Israel keep this crap up they are sowing the seeds of their own finish.

[father founding]

49. Shuffle the deck

They still have the Holocaust card to play.

[e-cigdub]

50. finish how

sowing there seeds of finish how? they have the strongest military in the middle east. scientific schools and state of the art technology that is second to none. They are leading in or towards to the top of the world in medical technology, military technology, things like solar power are being pioneered there. The huge discoveries of oil and and gas on the offshore of israel make them self sufficient in energy and are becoming a energy power house in the middle east, and are starting to export that energy to arab countries.

They have built huge walls between gaza and the west bank so no Palestinian can basically get in. they have high and growing birthrate. much higher then european capitals. CBS projects that in 20 years there will be almost 12 million israelis. With ememies like syria and iraq effectively in ruins and peace agreements with egypt and jordan. who is going to finish them exactly? with what mighty army?

The truth is for Palestinian and israelis to make peace. They both know what is required. Neither bibi OR ABASS are capable of doing it. both those countries need a strong leader who can overcome there domestic opposition.

Obama has the vision he just needs leaders of both countries to rise above and make the peace necessary. In 1999 yassar arafat turned down a peace offer at camp david. I think obama can finish where that peace agreement started almost 16 years ago.

[RedstDem]

77. with all that going for them

Maybe they could tell their senators and representatives in congress to stop giving them so much of our wealth.

[Luke Zee]

48. Nominally

At best.

[B Calm]

51. He Loves to Fear Monger. . .

[Mike Nelson]

53. What does he think should be done with them, then?

(shudder)

[hack89]

69. It is hard to imagine a Palestinian state regardless of who is in charge

certainly not until the ISIS/Syria/Iraq crisis is resolved. And after that who knows how fundamentally the calculus in the ME will have changed.

[geek tragedy]

70. the choice then is apartheid or a one-state solution with Israel losing its Jewish essence.

the era of Zionist democracy may very well be coming to an end.

[hack89]

71. There will never be one state.

despite the desires of some, the state of Israel will not destroy itself.

I certainly hope there is another option other than the two presented. Unfortunately I just can't see that right now. I think there has to be some cataclysmic event to happen that will fundamentally change the ME paradigm.

[geek tragedy]

72. Then Israel becomes South Africa redux, and becomes an international pariah.

The EU will probably enact sanctions within a decade.

And the US will have to abandon Israel, just like it did the apartheid government of South Africa.

[hack89]

73. A lot depends on the actions of the Palestinians.

They have never missed the opportunity to make the absolutely wrong decision so don't count on them to make the process easier. Take for example, what would happen if Iran wins out in Iraq and Syria and starts a proxy war against Israel using Hamas and Hezbollah. Then the US would have to choose between Iran and Israel; between Israel and Hamas. Who do you think they would pick?

What happens if Palestinian society fractures, with Gaza going one direction and the West Bank the other as groups pick sides in the ongoing crisis? The Fatah/Hamas split has never been resolved - that is why there have been no elections. Who can serious imagine a Palestinian state if the Palestinians are in a state of civil war?

The ME is undergoing a fundamental realignment. Your assumption that the welfare of the Palestinians will trump practical geopolitical concerns may not be true, especially if the Palestinians place themselves on the wrong side of the equation.

[geek tragedy]

74. and what happens if Abbas simply says "we're disbanding the PA and applying for Israeli citizenship

and the right to vote. Israel has announced that it will occupy us forever, which means annexation which means they must grant the right to vote."

[hack89]

75. Hamas would kill him and attempt a violent takeover of the West Bank like they did in Gaza.

Hamas, if nothing else, is pretty predicable.

[geek tragedy]

78. if the PA disbands, Israel has the obligation to be the law and order in the West Bank

and provide security for all residents.

Instead of deploying a wall around it, they'll have to station Israelis inside it to keep the peace.

[hack89]

79. If the residents are engaged in a civil war

then that might be hard. What recent ME counter insurgency effort do you recommend as a model? How harsh an Israeli response will you support? Could the IDF go into Gaza to root out Hamas leadership if Hamas starts attacking Palestinians in the West Bank? If the IDF had to crush Hamas to make the West Bank safe, would you support that?

It is not a simple black and white situation you present.

[Yonx]

88. Benjamin has to go

He's dangerous to the region.