Apple gears up to challenge Tesla in electric cars

[onehandle]

Source: Wall Street Journal

Apple AAPL, +0.07% has several hundred employees working secretly toward creating an Apple-branded electric vehicle, according to people familiar with the matter. They said the project, code-named “Titan,” has an initial design of a vehicle that resembles a minivan, one of these people said. An Apple spokesman declined to comment.

At best, it will be several years before an Apple car could hit the road, even if development goes smoothly and if Apple decides to proceed with the project.

“There are products that we’re working on that no one knows about,” Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook told Charlie Rose in September. “That haven’t been rumored about yet.”

Mr. Cook approved the car project almost a year ago and assigned veteran product design Vice President Steve Zadesky to lead the group, the people familiar with the matter said. Mr. Zadesky is a former Ford Motor Co. engineer who helped lead the Apple teams that created the iPod and iPhone.

Read more: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-gears-up-to-challenge-tesla-in-electric-cars-2015-02-13

---

More forward thinking transportation is good news.

Die, big oil.

[shenmue]

1. Wowsers

[still_one]

2. I don't believe it. Typical Wall Street bs.

[brush]

31. I wouldn't bet against Apple

They have a proven record of transforming industries and beating others to the punch — iTunes for example.

[still_one]

43. They are not in the car business, and this would be a piss poor business decision

Now what they may do is utilize their battery technologies and oem them to various manufacturers

[brush]

45. I don't think they'll try to compete against GM or Ford

They weren't in the music business either.

It'll probably be an economical and small, urban vehicle where there's a niche market.

I'd wait to see what they come up with before writing them off.

Tim Cook, with his solar plant build seems to have quite a broad vision as to where to take the company. It's worth watching as Apple seems to have a way of creating markets where others haven't had the foresight to see.

I think Jobs would've approved.

[still_one]

46. My view is Cook is not going to throw billions at a limited market. The music/video

business fits perfectly into their technology, and there is no way Jobs didn't see that as part of the synergy

It wasn't that long ago where Wall Street told us Appl was going to make televisions. That actually makes more sense, but nothing has materialized on that front

These Apple speculators, mostly Wall Street buffoons have been notoriously wrong on their predictions. I remember their doom and gloom predictions when the iPhone came out

I won't believe it until Tim Cook comes out and says it

We just have a difference of opinion

[brush]

49. I'm not saying I believe it or not

I'm of the wait-and-see attitude.

Since Jobs regained control of that company they haven't had many strike outs.

[still_one]

53. we are probably on the same page. Regardless, would take years, unless they buy Tesla, which I

don't see. It would make more sense for them to buy Netflix, but the FTC shouldn't allow that, however, with Staples now buying office max right after they merged with office depot, it looks like they are giving the green light to monopolies. I hope not

[brush]

63. Hope not also. That's troubling. nt

[still_one]

129. I am talking about the wait and see attitude

[mahatmakanejeeves]

62. "They weren't in the music business either."

They entered it the old-fashioned way: by buying an existing product.

Casady & Greene

C&G was the initial distributor of SoundJam MP, a program which was the basis for Apple Computer's iTunes.

SoundJam MP

SoundJam MP was an early Mac OS-compatible MP3 player and Rio-compatible hardware synchronization manager that was released in July 1998 and was available until June 2001. Jeff Robbin and Bill Kincaid developed SoundJam MP with assistance from Dave Heller. Robbin and Kincaid chose Casady & Greene to publish SoundJam MP. Apple, Inc. purchased SoundJam MP in 2000 and further developed the code to create iTunes version 1.0. Casady and Greene ceased publication of SoundJam MP in June 2001 at the request of the developers.

Rio-compatible? Hmmm. I have a Rio S50.

Rio was the brand name of a line of digital audio players, best known for producing the "Diamond Rio" model that was the impetus for a lawsuit in 1998 by the Recording Industry Association of America. That lawsuit eventually failed, leading the way for the portable digital music industry to take off.

Full disclosure: my oldest Mac is the original 128k, which I snagged from a trash pile. I own lots of Macs.

[brush]

69. Thanks for the history

You have an original 128k Mac? Is that the one with the square box shape, a little bigger than a shoe box standing on it's end?

I worked in the newspaper industry back in the day and the art department that I worked in had an older Mac like that that was still being used. I forget what for but all the designers and illustrators had Mac lls I believe they were called. The designers were running an early version of Quark and the illustrators had Illustrator (of course, right.)

Those Mac lls were a tremendous upgrade from the older one but whenever the illustrators were working on a large file it would take sometimes half an hour for them save and refresh their screen.

And of course the story devices were the small floppies until the zip drives came in.

I have a couple of Macs now — an older Mac Pro, an old G4 (it still works) and a powerbook.

The Mac Pro, which I do most of my work on, almost died but the Mac Store was able to save it by reformating the hard drive.

"Whew!" That saved me some big bucks.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

134. "You have an original 128k Mac? Is that the one with the square box shape...?"

It's one of those. That's the compact form factor, though I don't think Apple used the term "form factor" at the time. After all, back then Macs came in only one shape.

It's this one:

[brush]

135. That's the one I remember. It still works? nt

[mahatmakanejeeves]

137. I don't know. I haven't tried.

Or maybe I did once. I can't recall. "Working" is a relative term for one of those. Even on a good day, I would have to play floppy disk shuffle with it. The disks it used were limited to 400k storage, so users were required to remove and insert disks back and forth to keep programs running. Yes, it was maddening.

I know I can look this up, but I think the 512Ke was the first Mac with 800k disk storage. Maybe the 512K. I used to know. I have the Macintosh Bible from back then.

[olddad56]

117. the weren't always in the phone business either, but they have done okay there.

[alfredo]

93. The weren't in the music business, or movies either and they transformed both.

[kysrsoze]

104. We heard forever about an Apple TV, and it never happened. I'll believe this when i see it.

Seems WAY far out of their purview, as opposed to TV's which aren't so far removed from their current business model.

[alfredo]

106. The rumor mill is still quite active. For now the AppleTV set top device is

about all they are going to do. You don't really need a TV when you can stream content to an existing TV using your desktop and mobile device linked to the AppleTV.

I am still not sure there is a large market for smart TV's.

[Agschmid]

126. They have so much money it doesn't even really matter...

[Agschmid]

127. Yup.

But they have to keep innovating as old product lines stop (or decline) contributing to top line sales.

[RKP5637]

3. Great News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[snooper2]

125. Till you are forced to take a software update to keep the wipers working

[Agnosticsherbet]

4. Party of me says, GREAT!. Part of me ask how many jobs will that create in China.

[former9thward]

10. Apple has created a million jobs in the U.S.

In addition to the 66,000 who work for them directly. Name another private company with that record. Just last month it announced it was putting $2 billion into a new plant in AZ.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-08/apple-touts-u-s-job-creation-says-app-store-sales-rose-50-

[Agnosticsherbet]

11. And used slave factories in China.

So I do not think they are going to change suddenly.

[former9thward]

24. What are you posting from?

That does not use "slave labor"?

[rjsquirrel]

54. LOL are you writing this on a Smith Corona?

You are posting to a web forum using a computer or a smartphone or a tablet -- presumably not from Apple. I can guarantee you it contains conflict minerals and was assembled by what you call "slave" labor.

Apple has been an industry leader in curtailing abusive labor practices in Chinese factories and in reducing conflict minerals in the supply chain. No other computer or phone maker has come even close to Cook's efforts in this direction. Whatever junky Samsung or HP or Dell you are using contains far more "slave factory" components than any Apple product. Guaranteed. Provable. Fact. Apple is leading the way on these issues in the electronics industry.


So, hypocrite, heal thyself of thine own ignorance, check the plank in your eye, and throw away your computer.

[Agnosticsherbet]

60. Clearly you think that using cheap labor as long as it gets the goods to you is a great thing.

Last edited Sat Feb 14, 2015, 08:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Your honest.

And calling me a hypocrite is a personal attack, but I will ignore it since you clearly think cheap labor is fine as long as it delivers the goods to you.

What I point out is that Apple will likely build a great deal of their car in China and where ever the wages are the cheapest to maximize profits for their owners and investors.

When we use this stuff, then we should be aware that we are part of the problem.

I am fully aware of that. I don't pretend what they do is OK and when I can I do not buy from cheap labor corporatist.

Tesla has kept their manufacturing and as much of their parts from the US.

To support American labor, I would buy a Tesla before I buy an Apple automobile, as long as I can afford it.

Otherwise, I will ride a bicycle a much as possible.

[rjsquirrel]

89. Clearly you think

you are very clever.

No I don't think cheap labor is fine as long as it gets the goods to me. That's one reason I buy Apple products, since THEY LEAD THEIR INDUSTRY in improving labor conditions in their factories.

You however continue your hypocrisy (personal attack? it's just a fact!) by using a computer to post to DU that is clearly not an Apple, since you so despise them. But the fact -- and this is why you're a hypocrite ON THIS ISSUE -- that whatever you are using has a worse labor history than any Apple computer.

So go figure that one out and get back to me. I am actually quite activist on this very subject. I am just tired of people who know nothing about it other than what they heard on This American Life three years ago (that turned out to be fraudulent journalism, and the source of the story was disgraced for making up lies about Apple's China plants) snarking about how they "won't buy Apple because they support labor."

NOTHING you can buy -- for a computer or phone at least -- is not made in Chinese (or worse) factories. You're using something to post to DU. SO "clearly" YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT CHINESE LABOR. Get it?

If you had purchased an Apple product, your product would have been made in factories subject to the most rigorous oversight and the most extensive protections for labor in the entire computer industry. The best. Bar none.

You don't know your facts, so you are spreading a falsehood. I call you out on it. That's not a personal attack.

[Agschmid]

128. "Heal thyself" Wow!

[rjsquirrel]

132. At a loss for words huh?

You are refusing to answer my primary point, which is indeed a challenge to your statements above, based on the imputation of hypocrisy.

What are you posting from? Is it a laptop? A desktop? A phone? A tablet?

Was it made by Apple?

No matter what it is, you bought a machine made in China, of components made from conflict minerals and made by even more exploited labor than the Chinese workers who assembled your product, and are using it right now to post to the internet and read this message. Even an Apple uses coltan and other minerals sourced from desperate places like Congo. But so does everyone else. Everyone. You are using the product of exploited children right now. Period.

If it was manufactured by Apple, you bought, along with your product, the knowledge that Apple has *the most stringent protections in the computer/tech industry* for its Chinese laborers, and the most scrutiny of its supply chain for conflict minerals, bar none, and agreed to by every socially conscious technology investor and industry analyst.

So you opened this exchange by dissing Apple for making products with exploited Chinese labor (I think you even used the word "slave," which is an outright falsehood for Apple, at least.) And I am indeed calling you a hypocrite, since ANY OTHER MACHINE YOU COULD BUY, OWN, OR USE would be MORE deserving of that epithet than ANY APPLE PRODUCT. What part of "Apple is leading the industry in improving labor conditions" do you fail to grasp? And why do you fail to understand that this fact makes your initial anti-Apple slam *bullshit?* You can dig in, deflect, or roll your eyes all you want. You remain wrong. You remain hypocritical since you yourself are clearly using a Chinese made technology product to have this very discussion. So no, people who buy Apple products are not "supporting slave labor" or whatever you said. They are supporting the most progressive company in the industry with respect to labor standards and supply chain standards. You drew on a myth, promulgated by a liar a few years ago, that Apple is somehow worse than other companies. The report on which that myth is based has been discredited, the reporter/fabulist who spread it (to the point that it appeared as an episode of This American Life, which then had to apologize) has been disgraced, and Apple has been open and transparent and vigorous in defending its reputation with ever more strict labor condition controls ever since (and in fact, before). No one is saying Chinese factory workers have it great, but NO ONE IS BUILDING COMPUTERS in Europe or Japan or the US anymore . . .. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF APPLE, actually, which makes its new Mac Pros in the US (from Chinese and other Asian sourced components, none of which are manufactured in the US at all for any company whatsover). So yeah, drop 4 grand on new Mac Pro and you can have an American assembled computer, the only major brand computer of that type on the market (a few hand built or niche computer companies also assemble in the US, but it's not stuff you'd buy as an individual consumer in most cases).

You slandered Apple like a know it all with an unfair accusation that in fact is the opposite of Apple's leading role in addressing the issue of labor exploitation in technology manufacturing. You continue to act like you're right about something. But you're not. And you're a hypocrite on top of that for typing away on a machine which, if it ISN'T an Apple phone or laptop or tablet, was MUCH MORE LIKELY to have been made by 14 year old indentured workers in some hellhole of a toxic waste dump during an 18 hour shift in Guangdong province.

Your move. You're wrong, I'm right, you owe Apple an apology. I'm an activist shareholder on this issue, and have been involved in efforts to MAKE Apple accountable on these issues. I am very pleased with what Tim Cook has done (he's way more concerned about labor and environmental and social justice issues than Steve Jobs ever was). People spreading discredited lies, as you have done, are really just haters.

[Agschmid]

133. I think you responded to the wrong person...

I am the owner of several Apple products and am somewhat of a fan boy so it would be odd if I dissed Apple...

[Taitertots]

114. Apple employs 66,000 people.

When you count the number of "jobs created" in other industries using their methodology, you rapidly find that more jobs were created than people on earth. The methodology is obviously bullshit.

How many jobs did GM create if you count:
Gas station attendants
Road workers
Bridge construction
Oil refinery workers
Anyone who has ever worked on a car for money

Ford has 50,000+ hourly workers and puts hundreds of millions of dollars into factories every year.

Bank of America has more employees and invests billions in the US every year. Are you going to start championing Bank of America for creating millions of jobs?

[former9thward]

121. I will champion any company that creates millions of jobs.

How many have you created? Oh, that's right, none.

[Taitertots]

122. Using Apple's methodology I've created thousands

Every time I buy a product a job is created.

As a manufacturing engineer I'm going to take credit for all the manufacturing jobs that resulted from my work. High paying union jobs.

[former9thward]

123. If you are really an engineer your math skills are lacking.

Get a refund from the university you graduated from, if you did.

[Taitertots]

124. Oh no. Someone is upset that someone else called out their made up "job creation" numbers

Peddle your Snake Oil somewhere else. I'm going to go create a few plumbing and sewage treatment jobs.

[Auggie]

5. Nice. But will we need to upgrade every two years?

[7962]

14. Winner!!!!!

[we can do it]

56. That's not necessary with Apple products, they last as long as you want to use them.

[TM99]

65. Bullshit!

While that may have been true at one time (after all I still run a G5 in my project studio!), this is just not true.

Two months after I bought my iPod Touch 4G, they came out with the 5G. No upgrade of iOS for me or millions of other users. Apple, worse, than any other tech company today pushes forced obsolescence and the I need to upgrade yearly mentality.

Why would it be any different with this product?

[Auggie]

72. Double bullshit!

I agree. Though my hardware upgrades (iMacs) are about every 4 to 5 years. I use mine for business, everyday.

All joking aside, I doubt this will the case with an Apple automobile.

[alfredo]

91. I have the original iPad and it still works well. Sure it doesn't get upgrades, but

try running the newest Windows on old hardware. My wife has a first Rev Mac Mini and it runs well with an older OSX. We keep it to play PPC/Intel games. It replaced a first rev iMac that dual boots OS 9 and OSX.

[TM99]

94. I also have an iPad 1G, however,

fewer and fewer apps still support it.

Actually, I am running an almost ten year old HP laptop with Core2Duo CPU with Windows 7 no problem. Backwards compatibility has always been far superior in the Windows world. Sorry.

[alfredo]

95. But the downside is bloat from MS having to make drivers for a vast number of configurations.

My wife's 1999 computer worked well with new OS's until the change to OSX 10.6. Her old mini hasn't been upgraded because she still wants to run legacy games. Apple users tend to keep their hardware longer.

This spring I am buying a new iPad for the camera so I can video chat with my sister.

[TM99]

103. That is a myth from the past.

The only bloat is added unfortunately by OEM's not by Microsoft.

I am previewing Windows 10 now. It will damage Apple if they don't fix many of the ongoing issues with OS X since 10.8.

[alfredo]

107. I've had no issues with post 10.8, it's been rock solid. Their security fixes come regularly, and

bug fixes come as needed. I've only had one serious issue with OSX, and that was during the early days of OSX. There was a permission snafu that I fixed in Target mode. The HD just needed to be blessed.

There's a new update coming that will install Photos to replace iPhoto, and it possess some of the functions of Aperture. iPhoto is already good for basic editing, Raw Conversion, crop, straighten, and B&W conversion. It's linked to GIMP for final edits. This update will bring OSX and iOS closer together.

Back when they were still in OS7-8-9 days I was planning on jumping to Linux or UNIX. A member of Apple's MkLinux (Mach Kernal) team advised me to go ahead and learn Linux because it will come in handy when Apple unveils their new OS, or if MS was able to kill Apple. This was around the time Gates was telling Jobs to "knife the baby." The baby was QuickTime. Gates knew that Apple was going after content delivery, and QuickTime was how they were going to do it. Both companies wanted the living room business. Apple won, so MS lost out on a big revenue stream. MS's stock flatlined for about 10 years after Jobs unveiled the iMac, then the iPod.

I always rooted for Apple because they were the underdog, and were risk takers. Now they don't need anyone rooting for them, so I've moved on to my other love, photography. I now root for the mirrorless cameras. That is where the excitement is. Olympus, Fuji, Sony, Ricoh, Samsung, and Lumix are pushing the technology, now Nikon and Canon are having to play catch up. Olympus is my favorite of the group.

[TM99]

109. On the surface, many experience it as you do.

But there are deep & profound issues with OS X & iOS that developers and pro's are well aware of.

http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-lost-functional-high-ground

http://glog.glennf.com/blog/2015/1/6/the-software-and-services-apple-needs-to-fix

I use all types of systems and am platform agnostic.

I love making movies on my GH1 with classic C-mount lenses, and I dearly love my Olympus EPL-3 so I understand that passion. I dearly want the new Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II when it comes out but sadly I will likely have to wait on that due to costs.

[alfredo]

111. Olympus uses the same sensor across its line.

Get the new EPL 5 or the EPM2 then invest in the VF4 and you have a nice light setup. I modified my EPM2 grip, and have made peace with the lack of external controls by enabling the super menu. I got the EPM2 body for $250, Lumix 20mm for $200.

I have a wide range of legacy glass, with film cameras to fit the glass when I want to kick it old school. My favorite legacy glass is the Tokina EL 28mm 2.8, and a Yashinon DX 50mm I.7.

[TM99]

113. Terrific!

Great to know. I have several Panasonics and just started on the Olympus line. I have all of my old legacy lenses as well and read that the in-body image stabilization is terrific on the Olympus. They were right.

I have that same Yashinon DX. It is a nice lens. My favorites right now are the Seagull MD 24mm 2.8 and MC Helios 44M-7 2/58mm. My first camera in the early 1980's was a Minolta, and I fell in love with Russian lenses while an exchange student in Germany.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check out the EPL 5 as an upgrade.

[alfredo]

115. It goes for $399 new, $349 used. I have an Industar 50-2 50mm 3.5. I like it.

Check out the Lumix GX7. It has in body stabilization, and a built in viewfinder. Notice the EVF swivels.



The Industar on a Canon SLR. Vignetting on 35mm, just fine on Micro 4/3.



Tokina EL 28mm on Ricoh/Sears 35mm

[TM99]

116. I have been eying the GX7.

Perhaps I will look more deeply into it before the EPL-5.

Those are some very nice shots. I am partial to black and white myself. Yeah, the Industar is a surprisingly pleasant piece of glass.

[alfredo]

118. The Lumix seems to have a good user interface, according to

The user reports. It looks like it will feel good in the hands.

[TM99]

119. I love the feel of my GH1.

And I have been quite pleased with my GF1 and GF2. It is just time to up the specs on my cameras.

[alfredo]

120. The GH6 has gotten good reviews, especially if video is your thing.

If you are used to the interface, get the Lumix. Buy a body and use existing lenses. Team it up with the 20mm and you will have a fine street camera.

[hunter]

110. My car and my computers are salvage.

I try not to buy anything "new" but for food and occasionally clothing.

My computers run Linux. I don't buy it, I contribute.

The computer I'm writing this on is a little faster than the new Raspberry Pi 2, which is $35.

If I find one of those newfangled HDMI desktop monitors, I just might buy a new PI since the minimalism of it appeals to me, but otherwise I stopped buying new computers or software a long time ago.

An Apple car is probably never going to be a part of my universe unless one hits me.

[C Moon]

6. It may be problem if it keeps crashing. :)

[we can do it]

57. It's not a windows car.

[C Moon]

59. Agreed. I've been a Mac user since 1998. Back then they actually did crash from time to time. :)

Maybe a better joke would have been "you'll have to get used to driving without Windows."

[we can do it]

61. (And back then they still crashed very infrequently compared to windows machines)

It was still a funny comment anyway

[PoliticAverse]

7. Too bad their plugs will be non-compatible with all other mauufacturer's plugs... n/t

[DRoseDARs]

9. I'm more worried about people being locked into proprietary electricity.

Can you imagine the lines at the Apple Stores?

[alfredo]

21. You notice the huge solar farms they are building?

The one they are building in California should generate enough electricity to power all their offices, factories, and retail outlets in California.


If they can capture 10% of the energy market, they can influence it, just like they have done with iTunes-iPod-iPhone-iPad. Once they are on their way, they build cars to utilize the energy they are providing. Those solar farms are the "iPod."

[Egnever]

48. Good lord

I am constantly amazed by apple zealots. They are late to the party and they aren't doing it for your benefit.

https://www.google.com/green/energy/

Google has been investing in this for years and now that apple finally see's how well it works for them they jump on board and apple folks pretend they are inovating...

Apple has been following google for years now.

[alfredo]

66. I was just messing around, doing the conspiracy theory thing.

I was building a scenario where Apple controls the distribution of electricity to cars, and plays the rule maker, rule breaker in the automotive market.

I don't really think Apple is going to build a car, I think they want to be the electronics in the car. They want to provide all you see and hear in your car, just like they are doing in the living room.

[workinclasszero]

17. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Winner

[Fumesucker]

8. It's like shooting fish in a teacup

[workinclasszero]

18. LOLZ

You guys are killin me

[olddots]

23. best DU post ever

I hope it wouldn't have windows 8

[Oldtimeralso]

25. Would You Get a Blue Screen When It Crashes? n/t

[brush]

28. Now that's funny

"would it have windows?"

That made me chuckle out loud.

[Hosnon]

12. Trying to catch up to Google and the rest of the tech industry.

It's a good move because the market for tablets and cell phones will soon be mature. Wearables, home integration, and vehicles are the next big markets.

Apple is behind the curve in all three but will likely be able to grab market share.

[targetpractice]

13. $100 bucks says Apple will manufacture it in Detroit...

I'll go on record here.

I believe Tim Cook is way more socially responsible that Steve Jobs. For example, the $850M solar farm underway will generate enough power to drive Apple's entire operation.

It's makes more sense to manufacture an Apple car in the US than it does overseas.

It will never make sense to manufacture iPhones, iPads, and Macs in the US because all the component parts (processors, chips, cameras, etc) are manufactured in Asia.

The Mac Pro and and possibly the Apple car are high sticker-priced items that can incorporate imported electronic components (which cannot be made here) without significantly impacting profit margins.

[Egnever]

34. wait so google builds massive solar farms

then apple decides it was a good idea and they are more socially responsible all of a sudden?


Apple is a pack of thieves that exploit labor then over charge for everything they make. They are the 1% in one company. The fact that so many buy into their garbage is a testament to how gullible the American public is.

[targetpractice]

50. I didn't write Apple is more socially responsible than other companies.

I wrote that Tim Cook seems more socially responsible than Steve Jobs.

As far as their products being garbage... To each his own. I've been an Apple fanboy since 1984, and every dollar I've been paid in my career comes from using their "garbage". I'm not gullible.

[Egnever]

52. Fair enough

They have provided you a career. One has to make a living.

However that same reasoning can be used by koch employees.

Tim cook recognizes the blowback apple is getting from their practices and is trying to mitigate it. I don't believe his "socialy responsible" acts are done out of anything more than an attempt to control perception.

This new solar farm is not being built to help power anything other than apple, it is an attempt to lower costs hiding under the facade of being socially responsible.

“We expect to have a very significant savings because we have a fixed price for the renewable energy, and there’s quite a difference between that price and the price of brown energy,” Cook said.

And that is not even taking into account the site they chose to build on.

But the environmental groups point to a long roster of critters who could be harmed by the project, and their poster species might be the endangered San Joaquin kit fox, a little cutie described by Defenders of Wildlife as “the size of a housecat, with big ears, a long bushy tail and furry toes that help to keep it cool in its hot and dry Central Valley environment.”

And then there’s the federally protected golden eagle, also partial to the terrain. “There’s a huge number of golden eagles there,” Delfino said. “There are at least 17 eagle nests in the vicinity.”

Delfino said that while it was her wish that the plant not be built there, First Solar “is pretty far into the process” – the Monterey County Planning Commission approved the project in January, unanimously – so the group’s best hope might be to “minimize and mitigate the damage.” While questioning various aspects of the assessment of the project’s impact, the environmental groups also called for an increase in the compensatory habitat set aside by the developer, from a 3:1 acreage ratio to at least 5:1.

[7962]

15. I like it. More competition will breed innovation and better prices.

Lets get that range up up up! They have the cash to make strides here. They dont have to worry about investors at this time either

[workinclasszero]

16. Will it be made in Chinese factories with anti-suicide nets around the buildings?

And be gold plated and a million dollars a copy?

I don't think Tesla is scared TBH.

[alfredo]

32. Actually, the suicide rate at that plant was better than the suicide rate

nationwide. The plant in question made computers for many other brands, not just Apple. It was Apple that did something about it and forever will get grief for doing something about it. The other computer companies using Foxconn: HP, Dell, Motorola, Nokia, Sony, and Nintendo got no bad press. 400,000 people worked at that plant. China's suicide rate is 22.23 per 100,000. Foxconn reported 14 suicides.

Being wary of any business is good, but so is being informed about what has changed since 2010. Apple was stung by the criticism, and has made positive changes. This watchful eye should also be watching other US companies using Chinese labor. Every time a US company has to spend money and make a positive effort in China, the less attractive it is to do business in China.

Tim Cook has expanded the Supplier Employee Education and Development (SEED) program and is compensating any employee that has had their rights trampled. Management and workers are educated on workers rights, and sanctions are brought against any supplier that treats workers badly.

Jobs and Cook understand that workers, if mistreated, will engage in acts of theft and sabotage. Unhappy workers will not pay as close attention to detail, and quality suffers. Things aren't always rosy, but Apple and other companies are trying to change the work environment in the businesses that supply parts, raw materials, and labor to Apple. Apple has changed suppliers due to problems with working conditions and environmental practices. Plant owners don't want to lose that gravy train.

It isn't just out of the kindness of their hearts. Apple has the money and clout to set higher standards. This attracts quality workers to them, and forces competitors to spend money and effort to change working conditions and environmental standards in their supply chain. (If you are polluting, you are wasting something of value) This is not out of line with their, innovate and force others to play catch up tactics.

Apple has dramatically expanded R&D, so don't look for them to take the pressure off competitors. Refer to our cold war tactics to get a clue. The USSR was forced into economic collapse trying to keep up with the US militarily. Is the SEED program another innovation that puts competitors at a disadvantage?

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

The suicide rate in China was driven by the large number of rural women killing themselves. That number has dropped over the years, partially due to women leaving rural areas for jobs in the cities. How many of those rural women now work at Foxconn or other businesses that are forced to treat their workers with some respect?


Even though I am a former stockholder, I still expect Apple to reach for a higher standard. Hopefully their efforts will bring positive change throughout China. I don't expect to see a dramatic change in my lifetime, but it is important that American businesses in China show a better way.

[workinclasszero]

81. Apple Store Employees Speak Out Against Demoralizing, Draining Work Conditions

A series of interviews with retail employees conducted by a labor movement website paints a scathing picture of what it’s like to work at the Apple Store: underpaid, demoralized, physically drained and with no way to secure full-time benefits without turning your personal life over to Apple.
http://www.cultofmac.com/103041/apple-store-employees-speak-out-against-demoralizing-draining-work-conditions/

Apple’s treatment of its retail workers in spotlight again after new court ruling

Jeff John Roberts
Jul. 23, 2014 - 9:01 AM PST

Apple’s policies “made taking meal and rest breaks extremely difficult” and forced employees to work more than five hours without a break, according to a California judge who this week certified a class-action lawsuit that covers around 20,000 current and former Apple Store workers in the state.

The court ruling comes in response to a 2011 lawsuit and likely paves the way for a settlement. It follows a separate ruling in June in which a federal judge allowed Apple employees to press nationwide claims that accuse the retail giant of failing to pay wages during mandatory bag and technology inspections.

https://gigaom.com/2014/07/23/apples-treatment-of-its-retail-workers-in-spotlight-again-after-new-court-ruling/

Steve Jobs Net Worth at death: 10.2 billion.

American business magnate and inventor, Steven Paul “Steve” Jobs had a net worth of $10.2 billion. He was co-founder, chairman of the board, and former chief executive officer of Apple Inc. Jobs also previously served as chief executive of Pixar Animation Studios.

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celebrity-business/tech-billionaire/steve-jobs-net-worth/

Yet not a dime for living wages for his workers in America or decent healthcare or humane working conditions. And his virtual Chinese slave laborers in China jumped to their deaths from hell-like factories if given the chance.

But..but..he died with 10 billion dollars in his bank account sooo....American hero right??

[alfredo]

87. Much of that wealth came from the sale of Pixar to Disney.

If you work in a high volume retail space, you would know how difficult it is to schedule the day, and how mind numbing tired you are at the end of the day. Many times it would take me several hours to finish a sandwich. Finding workers willing to show when scheduled was another difficult task.

I only know of the state of our local Apple store. The workers seem happy, and have responded that way to me when asked. Some of them I knew from other businesses.

[Kelvin Mace]

19. It is really going to get crowded

at the Genius Bar.

[elias49]

20. Seems foolish.

It's like expecting Elon Musk to 'gear up' to challenge Apple's IPhone.

[former9thward]

29. Apple did not get to be the world's most valuable company

by following established business models.

[Egnever]

36. No they got there by exploiting labor and over charging their customers.

By running sophisticated marketing.

I am not sure if there is a company on the planet that is a better representation of how income disparity comes about.

[former9thward]

37. Ridiculous.

Everyone "exploits" labor. No one is forced to buy Apple products and they certainly have competitors in every field they are in. So no one is "over charged". Their products have created wealth for their users not "income disparity". Now if you are a Marxist, that's fine, but no company anywhere will ever meet your standards. Just say that and be done with it.

[Egnever]

40. Ridiculous is right on

All one needs to do is look at any model of Mac and compare the hardware to a comparable pm to see how much they overcharge. Meanwhile the hardware is exactly the same. At the prices they over charge for their products they could easily afford to run Union shops with good paying wages. They chose not to.

They don't sell more products than anyone on the planet they run a higher profit margins than anyone else on the planet. That is exactly how income disparity happens the refusal to share the proceeds of the sale with labor and instead hoarding it for shareholders.

Like I said they are the poster boy for the 1%

[workinclasszero]

82. Thank you for that stone cold shot of reality!

I get so sick of people making Apple out as some kind of fabulous American success story. They ruthlessly exploit their workers in China and America.

You are so right, they could pay all their workers great wages and benefits but damned if they will because....shit Tim Cook needs a new swimming pool full of hundred dollar bills to go swimming in every night?

Did Steve Jobs get buried with his 10 billion? Just another American business success story eh?

Fuck the living shit out of your employees so wall street and the news media they control make you out to be a fucking hero!


Tim Cook Net Worth....400 million.

http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celebrity-business/ceo/tim-cook-net-worth/

Well shit Tim, Jobs makes you look like a slacker! Better get out more whips and chains for your employees and get crackin!

[alfredo]

35. Sometimes a rumor has the same effect as an actual product. My feeling is

that Apple is building a prototype to test integration of Apple tech and electric/fuel efficient vehicles. Remember, Apple is very good at building power efficiency into their computers, and at miniaturization of components. Look at the unibodies on their laptops, and the beautiful metal work and internal design of their pro line of computers. Good design is inherently beautiful.

BTW, if your business has 3/4 of a trillion market cap, then you can afford to experiment.

[YOHABLO]

22. Apple? Going to make electric cars? Why? Can't they just stick to making expensive ipads etc.

[former9thward]

30. Maybe because there is a market for them.

The major car companies have been unable to build an electric car that is moderately priced and has an extended battery life. Maybe Apple can.

[alfredo]

38. Most people don't know is that Apple has designed much of the machinery used to

build their computers. That same design expertise can be used to lower the cost of manufacturing cars. Miniaturization is one of Apple's strong suits. That lowers weight.


Will their rumored cars be made on Apple designed 3D printers?

BTW, Apple has greatly expanded R&D.

[Egnever]

47. What?

No they didnt. Nothing in my computer was designed by apple nothing. Not the hard drive not the mother board not the processor not the memory not the power supply or any of the cables. Not one thing. And apple now uses standard PC parts in their macs and puts a logo on the outside of the packaging. They have been doing so for years because the stuff they "designed" doesnt do it as well.

Apple is a huge scam.

They have been living off the Ipod forever now. The Ipod was an innovative design and I will give them credit for that but they haven't innovated one thing since. Ipads are just larger versions, as are the phones.

[alfredo]

74. How many parts in a Dell is made by Dell.

It's not the pieces and parts, it is how they work together that makes the difference.

The iPod was a proof of concept. From it they built the software Eco system to support it and the future mobile products like the. iPad and iPhone.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/532841/steve-jobs-lives-on-at-the-patent-office/

Everybody copies everyone else. When the first iMacs came out One of their competitors* bought one, did an un boxing, and tear down in the presence of their engineers. They studied all aspects from the packaging to the Lexan case. I'm sure Apple bought the Zune to see what made it tick. "good writers borrow, great writers steal." Chet Atkins

* I can't remember the company, but they merged/sold out to HP. I do remember they did start paying attention to design, but didn't have the design team to do it right. HP also made/makes handsome Computers.

Apple like other companies are more than what is on the shelf.

I pay attention to Apple because they are driving the market. They are not boring. I also pay attention to Olympus because they are constantly innovating. I pay attention to Fuji because their design team is very good. Look at their X100t. It's beautiful. Btw, check out the Olympus EM5II, they have really disrupted the market.

I'm a fan of any company that takes a risk. I lost faith in Canon because their conservatism is causing them to falter.

[Egnever]

75. So you are stepping back from the idea Apple created the parts in my PC

and instead going with the idea that everyone steals. Big difference there.

Once again though there is nothing different about the parts in a dell or in a mac they are the same. The difference is the packaging and while I will say apple makes some pretty packaging they also go out of their way to make their products difficult to repair. Including using proprietary screws to hold them together.

Apples model from top to bottom is to suck as much money from your pocket as possible while paying their employees as little as possible. They are second only to the bank of china in their profit margins meaning they are robbing people blind. Sucking money from the average consumer and giving it to stock holders. There is not a bigger 1% er company on the planet.

[alfredo]

78. As I remember they designed screws that wouldn't fall into the

Case, but would stay attached to the component. If Apple can design a better screw, good for them. I've only had one part fail on a Mac. It was a Hatachi hard drive. If they are difficult to repair, it's ok if they rarely need repair.

Their Pro models are easier to repair and upgrade than their consumer models. I don't see much call by consumers to be able to open their iPhones and upgrade memory. If there was huge customer demand for that ability, you'd see them change.

The number of us tinkerers has dwindled because the technology has matured. I don't mess with Linux as much because I can use all the Nix software that made Linux desirable for me. I still mess around with Bash script every now and then.

[Egnever]

80. Would that that were the case

but it isn't.

http://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-screw-your-iphone/

Apple is switching to a new type of tamper-resistant screw. This is not a standard Torx, and there are no readily available screwdrivers that can remove it. This isn’t the first time they’ve used this type of screw—it first appeared in the mid-2009 MacBook Pro to prevent you from replacing the battery—and Apple is using a similar screw on the outer case of the current MacBook Air. This screw is the primary reason the 11? MacBook Air earned a lousy repairability score of 4 out of 10 in our teardown last October.

Apple chose this fastener specifically because it was new, guaranteeing repair tools would be both rare and expensive. Shame on them.

This screw head is new to us. In fact, there isn’t a single reputable supplier that sells exactly the same screwdrivers Apple’s technicians use—which is Apple’s point. They picked an obscure head that no one would have. This new screw defeats even our vaunted 54-bit driver kit, which until now we’ve been able to claim that it’s all you need to disassemble just about any consumer electronics. Alas, no more. Thanks a lot, Apple!

and to make matters worse

Now that we’ve got the background out of the way, what’s Apple doing with these new fasteners?

This screw head first appeared in the mid-2009 MacBook Pro as a fastener for the battery.
The 2010 MacBook Air uses this screw on the lower case to prevent any access to the internals.
Many non-US iPhone 4 units have had smaller versions of these evil screws all along.
Apple has switched production, and new U.S. units are shipping with the evil screws.
If you take your phone into Apple for any kind of service, they will sabotage it by replacing your screws with the new tamper-resistant screws.
Making things worse, Apple has used three different sizes of this screw head so far.

[alfredo]

85. TR6 Torx Security Screwdriver is available here:

http://www.amazon.com/Titan-17210-6-Piece-Tamper-Resistant-Driver/dp/B000UOCSCE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1423958746&sr=8-5&keywords=TR6+Torx+Security+Screwdriver.

Any Mac site that delves in repairs and upgrades will have info on any specialty tools you may need.

When replacing a hard drive on a MacBook the phillips head screws will stay attached to the bracket to protect from them getting lost or damaging the electronics. The pro did away with many screws, making components snap in.

Toyota sabotaged my nieces car by replacing the ignition switch, now the car doesn't shut down at random intervals.

As an old bike repairman, I can attest to how much damage a shade tree mechanic can do to a bicycle by trying to repair it. They love to destroy phillips head screws, and round off nuts with vice grips. Torx screws, or allen head screws make great replacements. And no, vice grips aren't good for adjusting front derailleurs, or tightening headsets.

[Fumesucker]

51. Apple products are known for moderate prices?

I did not know that.

[former9thward]

58. Doesn't hurt them in China where they are the #1 selling smart phone.

Chinese only have a fraction of the disposable income we do.

If you don't think their quality is worth the price then don't buy their products. Simple solution.

[Fumesucker]

67. I was responding to your statement...

The major car companies have been unable to build an electric car that is moderately priced and has an extended battery life. Maybe Apple can.

When I point out that Apple products are not moderately priced you go off on a tangent about quality.

[TM99]

68. Apologist spread so much bullshit!

http://www.gizchina.com/2014/02/08/xiaomi-soars-past-apple-samsung-best-selling-smartphone-china-december/

Samsung has been the #1 phone in China for years running, and only now is it being challenged. It is not by Apple but by Xiaomi!

[former9thward]

71. Haters spread so much bullshit!

iPhone snags top spot in China for first time, says research firm

Shipments of Apple's iPhones, namely the 6 and 6 Plus, have outshined lower-priced rivals, says Canalys.

The iPhone is now the top smartphone in China based on units shipped, according to data released Tuesday by research firm Canalys.


http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-snags-top-spot-in-china-for-first-time-ever-report/

[TM99]

77. Dude, I was likely using Apple products

before you were a wink in your parent's eyes!

They only just recently did that and NOW Xiaomi is pushing them out.

[former9thward]

79. If you have better figures link to them.

I made a true statement and you did not.

[TM99]

84. Ah, yes...I did.

From Q12010 to Q42013, Apple was #3 behind Samsung and Nokia. In 2014, despite Apple's best efforts, they still languished in the third and fourth slots. Finally, after the release of the iPhone 6 they were number 1. Xoami and others will return to their top spot again by Q3.

It took them seven years and they will not be able to maintain it. Just as they have done global, there is always a spike in top sales by Apple with a release, and then they drop back down below Android phones.

Let's see your sourced prediction otherwise?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263355/global-mobile-device-sales-by-vendor-since-1st-quarter-2008/

http://fortune.com/2014/12/16/smartphone-sales-samsungs-fell-apples-grew-xiaomis-exploded/

[former9thward]

86. Prediction?

No prediction. The actual figures. I have already given the link.

[ND-Dem]

26. why aren't the big 3 making electric cars? seems weird that non-union shops are leading

this deal.

or maybe it's not weird at all.

[jmowreader]

27. GM and Ford are, and Chrysler kinda is

GM currently has the Volt (electric with onboard charging engine) and is getting ready to release the Bolt (fully electric). Ford has the Focus Electric. In the Fiat-Chrysler world, there is an electric version of the Fiat 500.

[Egnever]

33. Ahahaha

Not sure if i could ever want anything less in this world than an apple car.

[HappyMe]

39. lol!

I agree.

[IDemo]

41. That's going to be a tough one

to run out of the store holding up in triumph over your head from the Apple Store.

[alfredo]

42. It depends on the end product. They have brought onboard Marc Newsom.

http://www.marc-newson.com/ProjectMosaic.aspx?GroupSelected=0

The car shown is a 1999 design. He seems to share the same minimalist vision as Jony Ive.

BTW, here is a portrait of Newsom and Ive. It's a beautifully crafted photo.



Two of their collaborations:

[Egnever]

44. Not even a little bit

I already know their business model. It is not one I would ever waste my money on. When they decide to start sharing their ridiculous profit margins with labor then I might look till then my shadow will never darken apples door.

[alfredo]

64. That's fine. They didn't do enough at first, but they didn't have the

Financial clout to affect change in China. Now they can, and should. I see nothing wrong with holding them to a higher standard.

Don't let other Americans doing business in China off the hook. Don't just focus on Apple.

[dogknob]

55. Will it cost 3 times as much and overheat when going up a steep hill like their laptops?

[onehandle]

70. Are you from 1998?

Because your bullshit sounds like you are from 1998.

Apple laptop sales are surging.

Others, not so much.

Jealous?

[William Seger]

73. It will have a proprietary power plug

... a non-replaceable battery, a stereo system that only works with iTunes, and the model that goes 200 miles on a charge instead of 100 will cost $10,000 more.

[workinclasszero]

83. LOL now that sounds like an Apple car! /eom

[shaayecanaan]

88. But the people who drive it

will insist that notwithstanding its mediocre mileage, acceleration and handling it is a qualitatively better car in every way because of the "driver experience".

[ileus]

76. Will the government let apple sell theirs without a dealer?

[alfredo]

92. That's up to the states. Some states say yes, some say no. It depends on how

much the dealership lobbyist are willing to pay lawmakers.

[alfredo]

90. Update from Reuters

I saw mention of this earlier.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/14/us-apple-autos-idUSKBN0LI0IJ20150214

"Fully automated driving is an evolution. Carmakers will slowly build the market for autonomous cars by first releasing connected and partially automated cars," the auto industry source said. "Apple is interested in all the potential ways you can evolve the car; that includes autonomous driving."

Whether it will build and release an electric car or a more evolved autonomous vehicle remains to be seen, the source said.

But clearly Apple has sharply raised its ambitions in automotive technology. Car technology has become a prime area of interest for Silicon Valley companies ranging from Google Inc (GOOGL.O), which has built a prototype self-driving car, to electric car-maker Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA.O).

[Ellipsis]

96. SAAB's going through a bankruptcy, again

They have an electric prototype, they should just buy them

[alfredo]

97. Or hire their engineers.

[Baclava]

98. All-electric cars are still novelty toys for the rich, a basic Tesla Model S Sedan - over $70.000

for that kinda $$$ there are lots of choices

Cadillac ELR range-extended hybrid

[onehandle]

99. All cars were novelties for the rich, before mass production.

The more electric cars are built, the cheaper they will get.

The ELR is a pretty nice looking ride.

[alfredo]

100. Cost per unit

[Baclava]

102. Somehow I don't envision Apple bringing the Henry Ford of Model T electrics to the masses

meanwhile, there are lots of competitors in that price range

Audi A7 h-tron, plug-in hydrogen hybrid

http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-shows-off-fuel-cell-a7-sportback-h-tron-at-the-l-a-auto-show/


then there's this...


After Cornering Tesla Motors Inc, BMW Is Planning To Go For The Kill

BMW is reportedly working on a plug-in hybrid vehicle that would slice in between the upscale i8 and the mass-market i3 to go directly in competition with Tesla Model S.

CAR magazine reports the new plug-in hybrid will be dubbed either i5 or i7 and will carry a price tag that will put it in between the company’s mass-market electric i3, priced at $43,350, and the i8 plug-in hybrid supercar, tagged at $136,500

[RandySF]

105. Tesla ultimately wants to make a car for the "masses".

[Baclava]

112. that's nice - but for right now they are priced in the high end luxury car market

somebody should buy me one!

[whatthehey]

136. That's like saying that TVs are toys for the rich because some 85" 4K set costs five figures

You can buy brand new electric cars for well under the median new car cost, in fact as low as <15k post rebate.

[Baclava]

138. That Tesla discount is included - real price is closer to $80,000

Kelley Blue Book - 2014 Tesla Model S - look it up

The Fair Market Range for this car in your area is $79,307 - $81,584.

we are talking about Tesla here

[RedstDem]

101. not looking forward to it

Enough Chinese crap here already.

[RKP5637]

108. I've always wanted a car I could fit in my pocket!

[samsingh]

130. the more the better

[Dreamer Tatum]

131. Translation: Apple, having stolen Tesla's plans the way they stole from Xerox,

will now avoid (a) the R&D expense of building an electric car, and (b) most likely the expense of
building them in the United States, so that (c) they may park their profits overseas while their pathetic
sycophants howl about GE.

In related news, the iCar will, in similar fashion to its phones, be at least two years behind more innovative
rivals, but will sell itself to rubes as groundbreaking.

[alfredo]

140. Jobs didn't steal the GUI from Xerox, Jobs cut a sweet deal (stock for access), and

the rest is history. IBM didn't seem to know what to do with, or didn't have the energy to run with the technology. Jobs did on both counts. Sure he got a steal, but he didn't steal.

http://fortune.com/2014/08/24/raw-footage-larry-tesler-on-steve-jobs-visit-to-xerox-parc/

“In Tesler’s account, Jobs spends a lot of time pacing the room. On one occasion he brings things to a halt:


“‘Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Just stop this discussion! We need to tell them about the Lisa!”
In another he fairly bursts with incredulous excitement:

“What is going on here? You’re sitting on a gold mine! Why aren’t you doing something with this technology? You could change the world!”
The Tesler excerpt should be required viewing for anyone who still believes Apple stole Xerox’s technology.

Tesler makes it clear it was Xerox that approached Apple, hoping to partner with a company that had proved it could mass market high tech. A deal was struck: Xerox would purchase a $1 million stake in Apple at bargain prices. In exchange, Tesler recalls, “Steve required disclosure about everything ‘cool’ that was going on at Xerox PARC.”

[whistler162]

139. well whatever the cost of theTesla

double it for the Apple version and it won't be usable/repairable after 4 or 5 years when they no longer support it.