Ukraine crisis: Leaders agree peace roadmap
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31435812
The leaders of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France announced that a ceasefire would begin on 15 February.
The deal also involves the withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line, but some issues remain to be settled.
The pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine have signed the agreement. Thousands of people have died in almost a year of fighting in the region.
French President Francois Hollande said he and German Chancellor Angela Merkel would ask their European Union partners to support the deal at a summit later on Thursday.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31435812
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barbtries
(28,807 posts)Ceasefire to begin at midnight on 15 February
Heavy weapons to be pulled out
All prisoners to be released
Mr Poroshenko said Ukraine would establish control of international border by the end of the year
Response to barbtries (Original post)
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Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)It isn't in the interests of Russia, nor France, nor Germany, nor Ukraine that this conflict continue.
The former USSR nations, France and Germany still have a large living population of Elders, grandparents and great-grandparents, who were young adults or children in WWII, for whom what war means isn't theoretical but experiential. Each of these leaders - Hollande, Merkel, Putin have no doubt heard the stories, told of older family members' experiences while seated around the dinner table.
War in Europe means something very tangible to continental Europeans. I am thrilled that these nations have brokered a peace agreement, and not wavered from their commitment to finding a diplomatic solution. They have accomplished this, all the while withstanding a deafening roar of saber rattling coming from the Anglo nations and media. I say Bravo.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)"Bravo!" 100%!
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)This is HUGE.
snip
Then Hollande and Merkel jet straight off to Moscow for high level talks.
Missing in action from the Germany-France-Ukraine-Russia talks is John Kerry, President Obama, or any other ranking US official. This speaks volumes about where we are in this narrative.
When the US started down this path of confrontation with Russia, which remains a complete strategic mystery to nearly all thoughtful observers, there were two large possible outcomes: isolating Russia and fracturing its growing ties with Europe, or accidentally fracturing the strong ties between the US and Europe.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/91774/us-suicidal-strategy-ukraine
swilton
(5,069 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)barbtries
(28,807 posts)but hopeful. maybe there are leaders somewhere who are not really gunning for endless war
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Don't get dragged into who should go first questions, just watch if they do or not.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Debaltseve pocket ('cauldron') lay down their arms and surrender.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)and their leaders were not at that table. I have some of the same concerns with respect to Poroshenko's control over the various irregular pro-Kiev battalions. If these groups are not done fighting, it will take more than a few UN blue helmets to keep them separated.
Does anyone know when the mud starts to thaw in Eastern Ukraine? Could it be that the truce will last only so long as the mud clogs the rural roads?
Please forgive my absence from these discussions. Two different flu-type viruses hit me back to back and I felt like I'd been hit with a Graz missile. I hope that none of the regulars on the Ukraine threads have been similarly sidelined.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It's been quiet. The Magistrate hasn't been around either. I'm a bit concerned. I've taken to using Foreign Affairs a lot, it keeps the noise level down.
I quite agree with your comments about control, it is one thing for some politician to give orders, it is another thing for everybody to obey, that is what legitimacy is about. And that issue has been most evident in this conflict, and it is a more or less endemic problem in the US government too. Don't get me started.
According to Happyslug, the mud comes in "weeks", and things are warmer than normal. That will make maneuver "difficult", until Summer anyway.
Check out Yemen.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)I do know that we booked it out of Yemen fairly quickly, and I assume that there will be a nasty fight that will made the Saudis unhappy. They've got Yemen on the south and Isis on the north. Not a happy situation for them, and maybe for us.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)but it is very clear it is not under control. I've had an eye on the situation there for a long time, but never dug into it much, and now I think I have a lot of company is saying: who are these Houthis and why do they sound like government reformers and where are they getting support from? But it seems likely to be destabilizing. I have run into Hezbollah connections too.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)So it might just work!
Kiev will lose at least partial control over some of its most valuable regions and still has an armed insurrection in control of much of its border with Russia. The Separatists will have to demilitarize a third of the territory they now hold, including both of their biggest cities, and they will be in an overall truncated and disconnected situation as to defense against possible Ukrainian attacks.
Yes, this is bad enough for both sides for it to really work.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)
And why some of us felt the ATO was a mistake to begin with.
They (Kiev) got more than I expected. Putin does not look all that triumphant either. They all look chagrined, that's good.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)when you use Kiev's term "Anti-Terrorist Operation". (ATO)
This is a genocidal war against ethnic Russians in the east of Ukriane.
Igel
(35,323 posts)That would abridge rights and trigger things that Kiev didn't want to happen.
Apart from Channel 1 and Russia 24, few see signs of genocide. Apart from that of Ukrainian speakers in the east. (As for the rest, much of the claims rely, again, on the kind of redefinition that would make English-speaking American blacks into ethnic Anglo-Americans. Only Putin has the "pull" necessary to make American "progressives" accept this.)
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Baku – APA. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the participants in the Normandy Quartet talks on Ukraine in Minsk have agreed on the release of all hostages within 19 days, including Ukrainian female helicopter pilot Nadezhda Savchenko, who is in a prison in Russia, APA reports citing 112.ua.
Nadezhda Savchenko, 31, was taken hostage by separatists in July 2014 during the fighting in Donbas and sent to Russia. She is charged with the deaths of two Russian journalists. Savchenko, when she was in a prison, was elected deputy of the Verkhovna Rada and then a member of the Ukrainian delegation to PACE. On February 10, the Basmanny District Court, Moscow extended the detention of the Ukrainian pilot until May 13.
http://en.apa.az/-_223009.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said he accepts the final peace plan in Minsk, but that part of Russian demands are "unacceptable"
Poroshenko also said the talks in Minsk did not include any agreement on autonomy for the rebel-held areas in eastern Ukraine.
Russia-backed separatists have been fighting government forces since April. Their early demands of federalization culminated in a May referendum for independence.
Poroshenko told reporters Thursday Ukraine has not agreed to the federalization of the country or even autonomy to the region.
The Ukrainian leader earlier said the parties in Minsk agreed to withdraw heavy weaponry from the front line and help Ukraine reclaim the control of the border with Russia.
http://www.neurope.eu/article/poroshenko-accepts-peace-plan-part-russian-demands-unacceptable%E2%80%9D
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I hope France and Germany can keep him under control?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I can reason my way around all over the place plausibly about what he is doing and why, but it's all speculation.
What i do know is he went along with Yats and the gang on the ATO and they lost, predictably too.
Merkel and Hollande have all the leverage they need, and more, they just have to be willing to use it. That will piss off the war lovers, and they do hold a grudge, but sometimes in life you have to make difficult choices.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Then changing his story for the people back in Kiev.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)
Xolodno
(6,398 posts)...him something different.
Either way at this point, if he refuses the deal Merkel and Hollande hammered out...he's clearly going against them. Should he renew hostilities, that gives Putin the advantage.
But hopefully, this holds and its all over.
Of course, some of the Nunlandista's will be pissed if this holds out. They want war and another cold war.....anything less is appeasement to them.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)If Putin can get Zacharenchko(?) to back off, we may get an end to the fighting, and let's face it, Putin has lots of leverage there.
What Kiev gets is the ground taken in the recent offensive back, some of it, if they can get the Rebels to give it back. And the IMF money, and the chopper pilot, among other things.
The agreement calls for the December cease fire line, I presume without the airport and Debaltseve, I don't think they are giving back Debaltseve.
And then another couple dozen kilometers more.
And since it is all going to BE Ukraine again soon, of course none of that matters, right?
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Greece comes to mind immediately too, for one. A true rats nest of left out stuff.
It appears to have dawned on the EU (in the form of Merkel and Hollande) and Russia that they were about to lose control of the situation, and they wanted the fighting stopped ASAP; they all, Putin, Merkel, and Poroshenko agree on that, but for different reasons. Poroshenko because a major portion of his already degraded (to use Obama's term) army is trapped, Merkel because she realized this could indeed lead to a big war, Putin because he wants to keep his winnings and he knows war does not pay. They all know that, it hasn't been that long since WWII, and I am happy to see they are not as fat, dumb, and happy as the European elites were before WWI.
Now, as I said in December, the question is whether they can get the rest of the guys to quit. It is so much easier to start these things then to stop them. At this point I think we have another frozen conflict, as predicted.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)The agreement emerging in Minsk appears to avoid one of the central issues at stake, namely the presence of thousands of Russian troops on Ukrainian territory.
A Russian force of about 9,000 soldiers, supported by tanks and heavy artillery, is believed to have entered Ukraine to help the rebel offensive.
This onslaught has succeeded in enlarging the breakaway statelet under insurgent control.
Petro Poroshenko, the president of Ukraine, had made the “withdrawal of foreign forces” his key demand.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11408027/One-sided-Minsk-deal-avoids-key-issue-of-Ukraine-conflict-and-asks-nothing-of-Vladimir-Putin.html
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)their withdrawal? Ever heard of a camera?
He never did and is not even now.
Do the math.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)They have learned all of our tricks.
The fact is neither side would have made it this far or have been able to do this much damage without the outside inputs of men and material and encouragement.
As for all the foreign fighters, wars attract certain people, you have a war, they will show up and want to "help". There are all sorts of people fighting on both sides, and Ukrainians of all stripes have also left to avoid it. Wars do that.
Dumbshit self-satisified politicians stumble into it and then they find out they can lose and that the laws of war are no laws at all.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)How do you hide 9000 troops and all their support, encampments, etc. in a defined and rather small area?
Buy a camera, Kiev.
OverseaVisitor
(296 posts)Call the invisible men.
Anyway if Russian wants to they do not hide.
Like in Crimea. They came in plain sight.
Over without blood being spill.
They were called the little green man. aka Martians.
I have look at all the Vice New videos You can search for it under the title Russian Roulette ( Dispatch 1) there is now my last view was dispatch 92. Since it is in English done by a Russian speaking American it sometime at least we can understand.
My view is that after Crimean both Eastern Province home for similar outcome. Putin did not send in troops there. You have to view all the dispatch to get an idea. It is slightly slanted towards Americans view point. But it gives a true and fair view of what is happening on the ground.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)from Kiev's authoritarian and bigoted full rule over them.
History is a teacher, most folks in America have little clue, just the way the media likes them.
OverseaVisitor
(296 posts)I have been digging for the truth since MH170 got shot down in Ukraine.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)PARIS--French President Francois Hollande on Thursday said France and Germany had committed to ensuring the implementation of a deal to end fighting between Ukraine and Russia-backed separatists, describing the pact as cause for "serious hope."
Flanked by German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the end of marathon talks, Mr. Hollande said the agreement reached Thursday morning called for a cease-fire, the withdrawal of heavy arms from the frontlines of the conflict and the resumption of trade with eastern Ukraine.
Enforcement of the accord, however, is likely to be a challenge. A previous diplomatic deal between Kiev and the separatists broke down as fighting flared on the ground.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/france-germany-committed-to-ukraine-ceasefire-deal-20150212-00188
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Kiev and the pro-Russian rebels have signed a roadmap for the implementation of the ceasefire drafted during the marathon 17-hour talks in Minsk, according to Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian counterpart Petro Poroshenko.
Poroshenko, as cited by AFP and The Telegraph, informed that the contact group had signed a document that had been prepared amid substantial tension.
Putin specified that they had reached agreement on a set of measures to implement the Minsk deal.
The pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine said that the agreement gave rise to hope for a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
http://www.novinite.com/articles/166491/Pro-Russian+Rebels+Sign+Roadmap+for+Implementation+of+Minsk+Agreement
bemildred
(90,061 posts)German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Thursday that Russia's Vladimir Putin had put pressure on the pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire from Sunday, which she said offered a "glimmer of hope" for an end to the bloodshed.
"Towards the end President Putin also put pressure on the separatists so that they agreed for a ceasefire from Saturday at 2400 hours, or Sunday at zero hours," Merkel said in comments to reporters in Minsk that were circulated by her office in Berlin.
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-german-chancellor-says-putin-pressured-ukraine-rebels-to-accept-ceasefire-2060399
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)MINSK: Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that he and the leaders of France, Germany and Ukraine had agreed on the withdrawal of heavy weapons from Ukraine's frontlines and a ceasefire to begin from February 15.
"We have managed to agree on the main things," a visibly pleased Putin told reporters in Minsk after marathon talks that began Wednesday evening. "We have agreed on a ceasefire," he said but stressed that Kiev was still unwilling to directly negotiate with rebels.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/ukraine-summit-agrees-ceasefire-withdrawal-of-weapons-vladimir-putin/articleshow/46213762.cms
bemildred
(90,061 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Feb 12 (Reuters) - European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said she did not expect EU leaders to discuss sanctions on Russia at their summit on Thursday after a Ukraine ceasefire was agreed in talks in Minsk.
Mogerhini called the Minsk agreement important but not definitive.
"I don't think today we will discuss sanctions," Mogherini told reporters. Talks would focus on how to "activate all possible EU means" to help preserve the ceasefire deal once it was in place.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/12/ukraine-crisis-eu-idUSL5N0VM3XF20150212?rpc=401
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The chiefs of the Ukrainian and Russian General Staffs will negotiate control over the Donbas ceasefire on Feb. 13, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/chiefs-of-ukrainian-russian-general-staffs-to-discuss-ceasefire-control-380415.html
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Just another delaying tactic to allow Putin's stooges a change to prepare for the next offensive.
You watch.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But Putin doesn't WANT peace. He's getting exactly what he wants.
If he wanted peace he could end this, by himself, in a matter of hours.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Putin gives up almost nothing, and seems to "agree" to it with an eye wink. I doubt it will hold.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I do hope I'm wrong and it sticks. There's been enough blood.
But I fear Putin has other ambitions. And the cycle of revenge is hard to break.
Have a good day!
MattSh
(3,714 posts)Two hours ago the powers of Europe and Russia, along with Ukraine and representatives of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, signed a new "peace deal" in Minsk. Problem is...it's not new. In fact, it's a regurgitated version of the first one that failed so miserably. Here's why the first one failed and the second one will as well.
1. The war in Ukraine has been witness to war crimes enmasse. Thousands of civilians have been slaughtered by the Ukraine army, and many more thousands have been maimed for life. During the first few months of the war, a deal like Minsk may have worked. After a year of the national government turning the guns of war against "its own" cities and villages the blood and destruction is far too great. Then there are the thousands of dead and wounded troops on either side. And their families. Are they supposed to submit to an agreement that allows the Ukrainian government to rule over them once more after such massive human rights abuses?
Almost as astonishing, the new Minsk deal calls for those who were responsible for these crimes against humanity to be pardoned from prosecution. An action that leaves human spirit betrayed. It defies the basic tenants of justice in the most vile way. A politically expedient hand shake that washes the blood of tens of thousands from the hands of those responsible.
<snip>
3. Ukraine retakes its border with Russia effectively leaving the people of Novorossyia trapped and separated from their "guarantor" Russia. That leaves the door open for Ukraine to reverse all the battlefield losses they have suffered in the last year, and free to implement their will against the people of Donetsk and Luhansk.
<snip>
The list goes on and on. Minsk 2.0 is nothing but a shallow, "diplomatic" attempt to appease the interests of Russia and Ukraine while ignoring those central to the equation: the people of Luhansk and Donetsk. A betrayal. An insult. Such an agreement can never have a long shelf life. It is doomed to failure because it ignores the human will and its need to see "justice done". Such an agreement leaves the wounds of war to fester and breeds deep routed hatred and resentment. It is not honourable and it is not practical. It is but a grand gesture, in a grand hall, that disrespects honour, sacrifice, and the human will to be free of one's oppressor. Shame on all involved.
Complete story at - http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.com/2015/02/minsk-20-bound-for-failure.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The International Monetary Fund has granted Ukraine a new $17.5 billion bailout deal to help support economic reforms.
With the help from other lenders, including Europe and the US, the deal could climb to around $40 billion over the next four years.
Ukraine has so far received $4.6 billion as part of a $17 billion aid package from the IMF agreed on last year, but the programme ran into trouble as the war ravaging the country's eastern region weighed on its economic prospects.
Facing bankruptcy, Ukraine last month asked the IMF to replace its programme with a new one to restore confidence in its finances.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/imf-announces-175bn-bailout-deal-for-ukraine-10041251.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW, Feb. 12 (UPI) -- With a $17.5 billion agreement from the International Monetary Fund in hand, Russian gas company Gazprom said Thursday it was time Ukraine settled its debt.
"The economic reform program focuses on immediate macroeconomic stabilization as well as broad and deep structural reforms to provide the basis for strong and sustainable economic growth over the medium term," IMF Mission Chief for Ukraine Nikolay Gueorguiev said in a statement.
Political upheaval that followed Kiev's pivot toward the European Union in November 2013 left an already-battered Ukrainian economy in shambles.
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2015/02/12/Gazprom-seeks-Ukrainian-gas-payments/4301423743056/?spt=sec&or=bn
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Russia's President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that pro-Russian rebels had encircled up to 8,000 Ukrainian troops and expected them to surrender ahead of a ceasefire.
"Of course, they (rebels) proceed from the assumption that this group will lay down arms and stop putting up resistance," Putin said after marathon talks with the leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine, citing information from separatists.
Putin said pro-Russian rebels had encircled a "significant group of 6,000 to 8,000" Ukrainian troops.
Putin did not specify where the government troops had been encircled but he apparently referred to fighting near the town of Debaltseve, where Ukrainian soldiers have been under heavy rebel artillery fire.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/putin-says-rebels-want-encircled-ukraine-troops-to-surrender/article/425878
brooklynite
(94,641 posts)...while only the eastern Ukrainians rescued by the freedom-loving Russians will enjoy peace and democracy...
bemildred
(90,061 posts)And they are much more likely to be able to do that if they are not in the midst of a civil war.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It must have been like one of those annoying telemarketing calls, ringing up over and over saying the same thing. Today President Obama called Russian president Vladimir Putin to once again harangue him about the Russian “invasion” of Ukraine.
One can even picture Putin, working out with weights or maybe wrestling a bear somewhere, being handed his cell phone and told, “it’s Obama.”
“Aw man, tell him I’m not here…”
“You gotta take this call…”
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/obamas-home-alone-giving-peace-a-chance-in-ukraine/?utm_source=wysija&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Mailing+List+AM+Wednesday
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)Can't wait for spring!
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW (Sputnik) — NATO is unable to provide any evidence supporting its allegations of Russian troop involvement in the Ukrainian conflict, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexei Meshkov said Thursday.
“They have no proof,” Meshkov told RIA Novosti, adding, “Such claims are made not by unbridled politicians, but by the heads of the organization, which a priori, should make clear reliable statements, rather than be a propaganda mouthpiece.”
Meshkov said that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg did not raise this issue during recent talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Munich.
“To raise this question, one has to have some specific data. During all the past year, NATO presented us with no specific information,” he said.
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150212/1018168758.html
pampango
(24,692 posts)More than a dozen Russian military units linked by media reports to the fighting in eastern Ukraine have refused to disclose their casualty figures for 2013-14, while one that provided the data showed a rise in soldier deaths from zero to six, a news report said Thursday.
The St. Petersburg branch of the Soldiers' Mothers Committee — an organization that defends conscripts' rights — sent requests to military units that soldiers' families and media reports had identified as suffering losses last year, including in eastern Ukraine, the Vedomosti business daily reported Thursday, citing the group's spokesman Alexander Peredruk.
A total of 17 units have responded so far — with all but one with refusing to disclose their casualty data, the report said. The one unit that provided information said it had lost six soldiers since July 2014 compared to no casualties a year earlier, according to Vedomosti. The report did not identify the unit nor specify how many soldiers it comprised.
The military units cited various reasons for their refusal to provide casualty data to the Soldiers' Mothers Committee, from saying the information constituted a state secret, to directing inquiries to higher military command, Vedomosti reported.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-military-units-linked-to-ukraine-hide-casualty-figures-report-says/515802.html
AFAIK, the Russian govenrment does not deny that there are Russian 'volunteers' who are active soldiers fighting in Ukraine. Apparently it is difficult to find out is any of these or other Russian troops have been killed or wounded in action.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)While doing it. Instead what we have suggests "advisers" and "trainers" and of course the "volunteers". And of course plenty of ammo. The problem now is they really do hate each other, and most of them are not visiting from Russia. A lot more than before. That's going to be hard to fix.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)When the addled European leaders trundled to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Moscow/Mink two-step, the only prop missing was Neville Chamberlain’s umbrella. Their attempt to “make peace in our time” has produced a meager result – a ceasefire that will take effect on Feb. 15 and an agreement to withdraw heavy weapons from the front lines and release prisoners. But many key details of the road map still have yet to be worked out and major obstacles remain. The status of Debaltseve, a government held town where there is heavy fighting, is in limbo. The future of the key rebel held cities, Donetsk and Luhansk, is also being left to future talks. Mr. Putin clearly negotiated from a position of strength – “what is mine I keep and the rest we negotiate.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande have proved no match for Mr. Putin, and U.S. President Barack Obama has simply stood down. Such is the supine posture of western leadership in the face of blatant violations of international law and the principle of territorial sovereignty.
It has been suggested that the reluctance to provide tangible, military support to Ukraine is to prevent an escalation of hostilities. And yet the result may be the exact opposite. Like “red lines” on Syria, the stern rhetoric directed at Russia by western leaders is not matched by tangible follow through – and Mr. Putin knows that better than most.
Some call the showdown between the West and Russia over Eastern Ukraine a Cuban Missile Crisis in slow motion. Only this time the crisis is on the borders of Russia with its brazen land grab of Ukraine and not over nuclear missiles the Soviets secretly hid on an island a mere 125 km off the coast of Florida.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/ukraine-ceasefire-sends-putin-a-clear-message-of-appeasement/article22941666/
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)snip
So Merkel and Hollande decided to leave Obama home alone and travel to Kiev and Moscow themselves.
snip
Quotes from article already linked above by DUer Bemildred: http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/obamas-home-alone-giving-peace-a-chance-in-ukraine/?utm_source=wysija&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Mailing+List+AM+Wednesday
Nihil
(13,508 posts)> In other words, while Obama was reading from the same tired old script, the countries most
> affected by the unrest were trying to find a solution to the horrific conflict.
> In other, other words, US involvement is an impediment, not a catalyst, for a positive outcome.
They were so looking forwards to another 24x7 TV war to drool over that they didn't notice how
the adults were talking in a different room to the stroppy bawling kids.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)A Russian “military diplomatic source” expressed optimism Thursday that France could complete its long-delayed delivery of a Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia by March, according to independent Russian news agency Interfax. The ceasefire agreement reached Thursday during a peace summit between leaders of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany to pull heavy weapons out of eastern Ukraine provides France with an opportunity to deliver the warship without upsetting its allies, according to the source. “The Elysee Palace could issue a command on the Mistral’s delivery as early as the beginning of next week so that the ship be fully ready for the delivery to the Russian side in the first half of March,” the Russian military diplomatic source told Interfax.
French leaders have long cited Russia’s alleged support of pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine as the catalyst behind the nation’s decision not to follow through on a $1.7 billion deal in 2011 to build two Mistral-class warships for the Russian navy. France declared in November and reiterated in December that it would not deliver the warships by the end of 2014 as scheduled. French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in December that the deal may never be completed. “I have said many times that at the present time, there has not been sufficient progress to carry out the delivery,” French President Francois Hollande said at a European Union conference in December.
A top Kremlin aide said in December that Russia would accept either the warships or their value in cash to close the deal. Russia threatened legal action against France for failing to complete the transaction, but delayed possible litigation in January.
Peace talks between the four nations in Minsk, Belarus, extended overnight and lasted for more than 16 hours, Reuters reports. A ceasefire between Ukraine’s government forces and pro-Russian separatist rebels was slated to begin on Sunday. Once the ceasefire officially begins, heavy weapons will be withdrawn from the war front in eastern Ukraine. The region will also receive greater autonomy from the Ukrainian government. It’s unclear if France’s potential delivery of the Mistral-class helicopter carriers was ever discussed.
http://www.ibtimes.com/france-could-deliver-mistral-warship-russia-march-after-ukraine-ceasefire-agreement-1814044
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)No time to translate other than the headline!
Article by journalist Jean-Dominique Mérchet - formerly wrote for journal "Marianne", military question specialist, article dated today Feb. 12, 2015
Link to source: http://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-defense/exclusif-non-livraison-mistral-coutera-5-millions-mois-a-france-21286
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Here is a quick translation I've done of one paragragh of the interview:
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The first of these errors goes back to the days of Gorbachev. The promise by the West to not expand NATO near the borders of Russia has not been kept. This promise of non-expansion of NATO was not respected in regards to the intervention of NATO in the Balkans and the integration of the Baltic countries to NATO in 2004: Estonia , Latvia, and Lithuania. For the EU to consider the accession of Ukraine and Georgia to the EU was also a huge mistake. It could only be considered by Russia to be a direct threat to its security. Europe has committed other errors besides the idea of allowing Ukraine to accession into the European Union. That's a lot of blunders accumulated over the years. (Paul Quilès)
Link to article in Marianne (in French) http://www.marianne.net/paul-quiles-france-est-pays-mieux-place-discuter-les-russes-100231231.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)
I can piece together about half of that, inaccurately.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)much additional play-by-play detail (albeit with a pro-Ukrainian\anti-NovoRossiya bias):
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/world/europe/ukraine-talks-cease-fire.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
bemildred
(90,061 posts)WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House says a new peace deal between Russia and Ukraine could be a significant step toward peacefully resolving the conflict.
White House press secretary Josh Earnest is calling on all sides to follow through with immediate and concrete steps.
Earnest says the cease-fire must be honored and heavy weapons withdrawn. He's also calling on Russia to stop supporting the separatists and withdraw its troops and equipment from eastern Ukraine.
The White House says Ukraine's border with Russia must be restored and that the U.S. is especially concerned about fighting that escalated Thursday despite the agreement.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-12-11-39-24
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If the negotiations couldn't get that to come out, then it doesn't bode well for the future...
bemildred
(90,061 posts)12 February 2015 – United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon today commended the perseverance of the leaders of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany to bring the conflict in Ukraine to an end, resulting in the signing of a package of measures for the implementation of the Minsk accords of September 2014.
A statement issued by his spokesperson said the Secretary-General has closely followed the intensive diplomatic efforts under way in Minsk, Belarus, over the past two days. The talks have resulted in a ceasefire and, reportedly a peace roadmap towards ending the Ukraine conflict.
In that regard, Mr. Ban, according to the statement, expects that the commitments which have been made in Minsk will be respected by the parties. “He urges the parties concerned to ensure that a genuine and lasting cease-fire will commence on 15 February as agreed, paving the way for a broader political settlement of the conflict, based on the Minsk accords,” it adds.
The United Nations stands ready to assist in any way deemed helpful, the statement continues, noting that the Organization will continue to monitor the human rights situation and deliver humanitarian support to those in need.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50071
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-50-russian-tanks-and-40-missile-systems-rolled-into-the-country-while-putin-talked-peace-2015-2?op=1
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)There has yet to be a real ceasefire in this conflict since it started.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)But not an actual Russian invasion, or invasion force. More like special ops bringing in battlefield knowledge and tactical advice. Kiev better take this deal or the encirclements will continue, they sounded desperate to do so.
