Greece has 'moral obligation' to claim German WWII reparations: PM

[Bosonic]

Source: AFP

Athens (AFP) - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said Sunday the country had a "moral obligation" to claim reparations from Germany for the damages wrought by the Nazis during World War II.

Greece had "a moral obligation to our people, to history, to all European peoples who fought and gave their blood against Nazism," he said in a key address to parliament.

Berlin has already sounded a firm "no" to requests for reparations nearly 70 years after the end of the war, but Tsipras and his radical left party have vowed to tackle the issue.

"Our historical obligation is to claim the occupation loan and reparations," the new PM said, referring to Germany's four-year occupation of Greece and a war-time loan which the Third Reich forced the Greek central bank to give it which ruined the country financially.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/greece-moral-obligation-claim-german-wwii-reparations-pm-192051560.html;_ylt=AwrBEiSlu9dUCCQAU2HQtDMD

[uhnope]

1. that is their big plan to fix their economy?

I wonder where they got that idea....

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-lawmakers-want-germany-to-pay-reparations-for-world-war-ii/515373.html
Russian Lawmakers Want Germany to Pay Reparations for World War II

[Major Nikon]

4. The difference is Russia got considerable concessions after the war

If anything Russia owes concessions to the Eastern Block for basically enslaving them for 40 years.

[MFrohike]

24. No

Greece has asked for payment since 1945. Nice try, yet again, to smear the Greek government.

[elleng]

2. On what basis does Berlin/Germany/losing party and occupier

sound a firm "no?''

Oh, I see, Russia's on them too. A big deal, I guess.

[Adrahil]

13. There is a long, complicated history of reparations.

For one, large sections of Germany were seized and annexed by other countries, notably Poland and Russia. Some 12 million ethnic Germans had their property seized and they were forced to relocate (this includes a few of my ancestors, FWIW). There have been several conferences that have resulted in German reparations payments. Greece claimed some $7.1 Billion in reparations claims at the Paris conference, but the conference awarded them $45 million, in addition to individual payments as compensation for forced labor. Greece's claim seems to be largely based on on it's claims, but those claims were denied in the conference. The other issue is the forced loan. If the loan is considered to have been stolen, then Germany wouldn't owe any additional reparations for it. If it is treated as an unpaid loan, then Germany would be liable for repayment based on the terms of the loan. In any case, there is no way Greece has a legitimate claim to the amount it claims.

But that is beside the point. It's really just a rhetorical position. They don't expect to get additional payments, so they will simply claim that defaulting on loans is taking "just compensation" for the "unpaid reparations."

[forest444]

3. Keep in mind Hitler raided the Greek Central Bank,

forcing them to give Germany a 500 million Reichsmark "war loan" — one that has never been paid back. Economists estimate that if it were repaid today, it could cost the German government around $90 billion. Talk about deadbeats!

This figure, btw, does not include reparations reasonably due to Greece for the pillage and atrocities leveled on them by the Nazis during World War II.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056400/Greece-debt-crisis-Greeks-believe-Germans-owe-60bn.html#ixzz3RBkguDXf

[Adrahil]

16. The 90 Billion figure is really BS...

Because it's based on an interest rate which was not part of the original loan terms.

In reality, of course, the "loan" was not a loan, but simply theft. In which case it would covered under the terms of reparations agreements.

[forest444]

17. But of course!

Because 3% interest (the rate used to calculate the $ 90 billion figure) is highway robbery, I tell you. Ein Schwindel!

And again, this is just principal and interest on the "loan"; it does not include reparations for damages or war crimes of any kind.

[Adrahil]

19. You can either treat the loan as legit...

... in which case you honor the terms of the loan, or it was theft, in which case, it needs be treated as part of the pillaging of Greece in WWII.

Anything else is made-up bullshit.

[forest444]

21. This just in from Berlin...

[Adrahil]

31. So, what's your plan?

Seriously... what do YOU think should happen? I mean, beyond just insulting me.

[lakercub]

5. This is all about austerity

If Germany didn't keep banging the drum for austerity and bitching about how they have to keep propping up weaker economies, those states with the weakened economies may not be making claims of this sort. But Germany, a country that got a massive influx of money after WW2, much of that debt forgiven I believe, continues to ignore that their rise back to prominence was heavily aided by the largess of others.

So they continuously pound Greece (and Ireland and Portugal and Spain) into accepting self-defeating and useless austerity measures that only serve to create more unemployment and perpetuate downward economic spirals. It is not at all surprising then that some of these nations may just start to get a little tired of Germany's self-serving economic posturing and their constant push for damaging policies, when Germany itself got one of the biggest bailouts ever.

[stuffmatters]

12. Great points

[another_liberal]

6. He does seem to have a point there . . .

Why shouldn't the poverty-stricken children and grandchildren of those who Nazis brutalized expect to be compensated by the far more prosperous children and grandchildren of those Nazis?

[hack89]

7. Because Germany is not responsible for their poverty? Nt

[another_liberal]

9. How much did Germany's invasion damage Greece's advancement?

How many irreplaceable lives were wasted? How much property was confiscated? How much harm was done to the very political and social fabric of the nation?

Remember, this was an armed invasion and brutal military occupation which lasted for years.

[hack89]

14. Google the "Greek economical miracle"

from 1950 to 1973 the Greek economy grew an average of 7% annually, second only to Japan ( who was devastated far more than Geece was during WWII).

From 1950 to 2008 Greece had one of the best performing economies in Europe. They just got greedy and stupid and made some truly boneheaded fiscal choices.

[uhnope]

8. How much reparations Kremlin pay for plunder of Soviet satellites/Eastern Bloc countries?

oh yeah, $zero.

[another_liberal]

11. That has nothing to do with this OP . . .

If you are stalking me again from forum to forum, in some personal vendetta, please do stop.

[Duckhunter935]

26. protect Russia at any cost

You do not control the posts, as much as it pains you.

[stuffmatters]

10. This is really, really good idea. Even if it just eliminates Germany's strangehold

and gets Greeks back in charge of their own economy. Makes sense too- pay off current debt by collecting unpaid past debt.

[Demeter]

15. Angela must be having kittens

Good.

[luke102938]

18. The U.S. paid Germanys debt for them. Google "Marshall Plan"

After trying to pull this, Germany should not lend them another dime.

[Adrahil]

20. Germany has paid plenty over the years in various kinds of reparations....

... but some of the smaller countries got the shaft.

Still, this is a pretty transparent attempt to get out of previous agreements.

But frankly, I think the EU handled Greece poorly anyway.

[sadoldgirl]

22. As far as I have heard about this

there can be no legal claim. If there was one Greece would
have made this quite a long time ago. That is the reason for
the term "moral" obligation.
Germany has already paid a lot for Greece's downfall.

Greece insisted on getting into the Euro zone and did so
by cheating (with the help of Goldman-Sachs) about its
economic and financial situation.

Lastly: While the austerity program was a mistake, Greece
had terrible ideas about outsourcing and lack of tax
collection from its 1%.
There is a movement in Germany to forgive the loans in
return for abandonment of the Euro zone participation of
Greece.

I doubt that Germany's government will pay much more;
however it does not want the other southern members
to leave the Euro zone as well, because it just may destroy
the total Euro arrangement.

We shall wait and see.

[freshwest]

23. Wow, the plot thickens. Wonder how this is going to shake out.

[Sunlei]

25. Greese got torn up harshly during WW2.

[Ramses]

27. I hope Greece tells the EU to go to hell

Bring along Italy, Spain and Portugal too. Breaking the IMF in particular would be a good first step in economic justice for these countries decimated by right wing Austerity

[Dawson Leery]

28. The EU and IMF have been too hard on Greece.

Clearly this is not the first time Germany has done Greece wrong.

[Xolodno]

29. ...and to think...most thought the issues of WW2 were over...

...not by a long shot.

WW2 created a clusterfuck during and after. Even after decades, it still has repercussions....and some would say, WW2 was the result of the bone-headedness of WW1. Which means, after over a century....we still haven't figured this out.

And I have to still point out the irony..two nations who are ancient enemies....joined for a time in opposing a stronger enemy...now that the stronger enemy is weaker...and sends no threat to either nation...and sends a willingness to help out one more economically depressed...while the other....is earning its other allies scorn.....unchecked.......shit can go down between Turkey and Greece. This has been brewing for a long time....and has never been addressed...just like the Armenian Genocide. Sooner or later, the time comes to pay the piper.

[hedgehog]

30. I don't know who I love more, Tsipras or Varoufackis!

I have to say, I've enjoyed the encounters Varoufackis has had with various officials who think they're all that!

[Amishman]

32. How far back should reparations go?

I mean, when do you stop?

Should Tunisia seek reparations from Italy for the sacking of Carthage?

In my opinion, once you are about a generation past the event (20 years or so), it is no longer appropriate. The offending parties are almost certainly powerless / elderly / or dead. A child should not be responsible for the misdeeds of their parents.