General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums30,000+ traffic deaths per year, 1/3 are alcohol-related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_yearThose figures are not acceptable, let's try and use more caution on the roadways. Don't need any new laws, don't need to ban cars, don't need to ban booze, just need to be considerate as we motor along.
valerief
(53,235 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)YEAH, I SAID THAT!
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)on average 30 people per day in the US die in alcohol related traffic accidents.
Reinstate the Volstead Act!
hack89
(39,171 posts)it kills a lot of people besides drunk driving incidents. It is also a huge factor in domestic violence and child abuse.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)or handling a gun . . . right?
hack89
(39,171 posts)but like cars I assume the vast majority of Americans are responsible with guns.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)by other people with guns.... Tell me, what 'worthwhile purpose' do drunk drivers serve?
DrDan
(20,411 posts)i
Edweird
(8,570 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Seems it's simply a recreational poison, nothing more.
Sure it's well ingrained in our culture and widely available. But if we ban it people will stop seeking it out and all problems associated with alcohol will disappear.
It's not even a right so we could totally pass some sort of Prohibition against it. I'm not sure what we'd call it though . . .
DrDan
(20,411 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)we should ban a sedentary lifestyle, unhealthy foods, incompetent doctors, cigarettes, and stress long before we get to guns.
Let's work on eliminating fat people first. Then we can work our way back to guns.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)lets just go ahead and start with the guns
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)don't forget the kids.
Which then brings us back to driving. Far more of a danger than guns. Ban it.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)and simply being fat is not a danger to their kids, unless they happen to roll over onto them
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)You honestly are unaware of the correlation between unhealthy parents and unhealthy children?
It's not about squashing them. It's about giving them "adult onset" diabetes, among other ailments.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)let's start with guns . . . then move to the unhealthy parents
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)recreational poison. I'm sure their culture will respond accordingly...sigh...dear god...
sometimes I wonder how much more moronic we could look to the rest of the world...
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)notice the capitalized P in prohibition?
/and regardless of the cultural artifacts around it alcohol as it stands is an organic poison that we take for recreational purposes. To get drunk, to socialize, to embrace a common culture, etc. It isn't an essential element of life.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)"Dude," they don't drink like we do over there...Americans either love to hate it or just want to drink until stupor. Europeans don't understand American tourists who go to their respective countries and get wasted on their wine. They think there is something the matter with us.
I think they are right.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Are you arguing that it is not a recreational event for them? That they must drink wine or die?
Recreation: is an activity of leisure, leisure being discretionary time.
Recreation =/= (necessarily) getting hammered.
And on top of that your assessment is wrong.
You feel americans are stupid louts who just get drunk all the time and Europeans are sophisticated drinkers. Ok. They drink a lot more than we do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption
And abusing alcohol is a major problem in many parts of Europe (UK for instance, and all former soviet nations). You seem to have confused the positive stereotypes about one nation (france) with the reality of an entire continent.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Wine is drunk with food. It is part of their diet and they wouldn't dream of living without it. I've been in little restaurants in tiny towns in Umbria and Tuscany where the wine is so "local" it's from the back "vineyard" grown right along with every other thing they can possibly grow fresh!
Get a clue and begin to enjoy! These are people who have cultivated the vine for a thousand years, way before we were here in the U.S. They drink wine with their food, not to "get hammered." They think Americans are strange to think that.
Hey, come to one of these countries and just look around and see the people and how they live. You will get a wonderful education. You won't get drunk because nobody around you will. You'll eat great food, drink great wine and feel just fine the next day (no sulfites).
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)you've boiled down your one nice vacation in some rural town in France/Italy to describe an entire continent.
Europeans actually do . . . wait you'd better sit down for this . .. ok europeans actually do get drunk! There I said it.
Also just because you "wouldn't dream" of living without something doesn't mean it isn't recreational. A lot of people wouldn't dream of living without a TV. That is still recreational.
I'm not even sure what your argument here is. Wine is an essential element of life? Or the europeans are incapable of getting drunk?
Either of those is simply an attempt at derailment.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)appear there on your chart. And it is only about "students." I didn't talk to students. I talked to adults who were working and living in those towns. Also in cities...places like Paris, Rome, Florence, Bologna (I nearly fainted at the selections in a cafeteria there fer gods sake), Madrid, Barcelona,Bilbao, Lisbon, Porto, Verona, Venice, Turin, Milan...I was also in the Netherlands last fall but I did not see anybody drunk (they were slightly high in Amsterdam because of another substance, but that is a different subject).
But why don't you check it out for yourself? what's the harm? You eat great food, drink great wine, see great art and culture and architecture. What do you have to lose?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)there is more to it you know?
Also I have been to Europe.
I saw stumbling drunk people(natives, not American tourists which I know you were going to assume), social drinkers, and people who didn't drink at all. Kinda like here. Saw one lady in switzerland nearly passed out in the street flipping off pedestrians and yelling in what I think was german (ie not an American). This was around 10 in the morning.
Your belief in the magical sophisticated european is not supported by evidence.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)My "evidence" is how many years and trips I have taken there and how many cultures I have observed. Not from a cruise ship or a tour bus but from actually walking around the towns and cities. I must have encountered a whole different stratum of society in those cities I listed (I've been to them all).
Tell me, tho: besides the Swiss woman, were they all germanic, northern, Scandinavian or British Isles? I have not been to England for many, many years and I have never been to the Scandinavian countries. I will be in Belgium in October so I can report my first hand experience there after that.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I'll be in Belgium in October and I doubt I'll have a conversation about it, although I might. About a year ago in Paris I talked with a Parisian about the head scarf controversy raging there at the time. We only talked about our version and the French version of the "rights of man." It was pretty interesting...
DrDan
(20,411 posts)that seems to be the only way they can relate to our obsession
and . . . they may be on to something
former9thward
(32,066 posts)Are you opposed to that? http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110224/moderate-alcohol-drinking-may-boost-heart-health
quinnox
(20,600 posts)all it took was your pep talk.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)Any other gems to "share" with the class?
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Those incidents make big news because of the intent and means.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)how dead is that person?
Since it was an accident and not on purpose is the victim only half dead? Or thirty percent? I guess it depends on the blood alcohol level on how deceased the victim may be.
Unlike guns that kill people 100% since guns are evil.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)on the part of drivers. There are few genuine "accidents".
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)How many of those traffic deaths are by a driver intent upon killing another person using the vehicle as the weapon?
Lex
(34,108 posts)Right, right?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)We could require annual inspections and registration taxes plus liability insurance and licensing for any operators.
Cars can be deadly. That's why their use is heavily regulated.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)You might call that "heavily regulated" use, I don't.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)but the minor can be still be ticketed and arrested for driving recklessly or violating other laws and if injury or death occurs, the guardian will face charges.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Check the laws in your state. Children driving recklessly can be ticketed. Parents/guardians of children who injure themselves or others while driving on private property could face criminal charges.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Ezlivin
(8,153 posts)And this country had NO problem coming up with $1,000,000,000,000 to fund wars, alter our civil liberties and launch wars.
We were told this was done to "keep us safe from terrorists."
Really? We're much more likely to die in a traffic accident.
Where's the concern over our safety and well-being while on the highway? Particularly since we've lost 300,000+ people since 9/11 in traffic accidents.
piperpibroch
(19 posts)When you don't have all your faculties, good intentions won't bring back the person you just ran over.
But we always focus on curing the symptoms rather than the cause. Why is alcoholism so high?
elleng
(131,073 posts)10% of the population, approximately. As for dumb 'social drinkers,' try to focus on that. My children, young adults, and their friends, use 'designated drivers' much of the time.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)These stupid "comparisons" always gets dragged out by the gun nuts.
It must be all they have left.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)and feel free to offer any advice you might have.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Tejas
(4,759 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)BOG PERSON
(2,916 posts)but nobody would make money off that, so it's t.s. for us (tethered swimming)
Tejas
(4,759 posts)I rode a train in a San Antonio park in the 1970's, huge loop from here to there and back, loved it!
elleng
(131,073 posts)UNFORTUNATELY, people are people.
liberal N proud
(60,339 posts)I was way too lucky in my youth to keep driving after drinking.
One drink does not effect me, I can feel two and will not chance it.
hunter
(38,325 posts)How do you keep them away from people who shouldn't be using them?
You couldn't ban either of them any more than you could ban Bibles...
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Then we started to pass some reasonable regulations to make our roads, cars and drivers safer.
If you looked at "Car Enthusiast" magazines from that era, they were pretty worked up about those proposed regulations at the time.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Or at least lower the number....
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)when you owe them money.
"I'm sorry, Dave, but your seatbelt is locked. Going to your daughter's house is not a priority at this time..."
Taverner
(55,476 posts)2on2u
(1,843 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)and it's 12.3 per 100k population, which is comparable with countries like Poland and Romania. Which incidentally both have very much lower murder rates than the US.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Once you stop its like a whole new world opens up to you.