My guess is that Mueller is debating whether to indict another individual at this time or...

[kentuck]

...to wait a little longer?

He may feel the need to show that there is indeed something to investigate and that it is not a "hoax" and that progress is being made in the investigation?

The times and circumstances may dictate that he move a little quicker than he would like?

Just a guess...

[Wwcd]

1. Mueller doesn't have to prove wrong, an accusation from

those he's investigating.
He only has to prove their criminal guilt.
He will.

[kentuck]

3. If he is around to prove it?

He can be dismissed.

[Wwcd]

4. He won't let Trump get that far.

Mueller wins the final chess move.

[kentuck]

6. I wish I had your confidence...

...in this matter.

Trump holds more cards than you are willing to admit, I think?

[Wwcd]

12. Beg your pardon?? " more cards than you are willing to admit, I think?"

Willing to admit?
Geezus, call me ignorant or whatever.
Egaaad

[kentuck]

14. " He won't let Trump get that far."

"Mueller wins the final chess move."

What do you call that attitude??

[33taw]

16. Trump could fire him tonight and Mueller could be sitting on a Royal Flush and it wouldn't mater.

[Wwcd]

23. Trump can't directly fire Mueller. He has to go through Rosenstein first.

He'd have to fire Rosenstein, reappt someone willing to do the dirty job that Rosenstein won't do.

[kentuck]

24. Or have the person directly under Rosenstein fire him...

...until a replacement is found for Rosenstein? Sort of like Judge Bork?

[Wwcd]

28. Whats your point of argument?

I believe Mueller will win this game. You may naysay all you want.
My opinion will not change.
Conversation with you is over, in that case.
We differ on opinion.

Later.

[kentuck]

29. Good.

Please put me on ignore.

[Wwcd]

32. Umm you just told yourself to put you on ignore.

Your post #29 replied to post #24.

Just fyi in case you want to correct it.

Later

[ChubbyStar]

53. Look again

He did not put himself on ignore. Just fyi in case you want to correct it.

[Wwcd]

26. What attitude are you talking about? This is what I believe.

I don't agree with your opinion.
I have more faith in team Mueller & AG Schneiderman who work together in bringing down the mob.

The investigation into Trump Org in NY has been going on for yrs.
It is Guiliani/NYFBI who protected Trump's dirty deals during those yrs.

Mueller is after RICO. Trump, & Many Congressionals who took Kremlin cash.
The upcoming meeting next week between Mueller & Trump's attorneys will be the telling moment.

I have absolute faith the rat-corner Mueller has Trump in, is getting smaller & smaller.

Next week's meeting is where the biggest deal will be made.

[kentuck]

31. I hope you are right.

Trump has political cover now unlike any time in his life, in my opinion.

I am pulling for Mueller but I don't think it is a guarantee that he will not be fired.

Just my opinion.

[Irish_Dem]

2. I think he probably has a number of plans at hand.

He is careful and methodical, but never underestimates his enemy, and can adapt quickly and successfully to a changing environment.

I base this opinion on careful study of his experience in the jungles of Viet Nam as a rifle platoon leader. He stayed alive for a year, and received medals for his actions. One can make some good guesses about how he did this.

[GallopingGhost]

10. I agree 100%

This is a real-life game of survivor. Mueller will be the one to outwit, outplay, outlast.

[Irish_Dem]

15. And Mueller not only survived, he excelled on many levels in Viet Nam.

A very dangerous environment every day from the enemy and also his own men.
A lot of younger officers got fragged.

He stays one step ahead of the enemy and his own men. Knows how to lead and produce a cohesive fighting unit. He learns and adapts to new environments, has courage and steady nerves. Does not scare easily.

[Hortensis]

20. Agree with all. I suspect he uses leaks as artillery,

also indictments, to knock back advances and send those investigated scuttling for their lawyers and the national press avidly on their tails. And with this major attack by the right on his and his investigation's integrity, no surprise if people are expecting a strong counter move on his part.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Yes he learned the art of psychology in warfare, quite obvious in his "leaks."

[kentuck]

22. Also, I think it is worth noting....

...that, no matter if Bob Mueller is fired or not, the evidence does not disappear.

[Irish_Dem]

36. Yes I would think there are multiple evidence files. nt

[GallopingGhost]

43. I have a lot of

faith in Mueller. I know he's doing things right. The waiting is hard.

[Irish_Dem]

51. We shall see how things play out. I have much faith in him as well.

But this is a very serious and complicated investigation with profound implications for America and its institutions. I believe the treason and Russian quid pro quo spans both the White House and Congress.

I do not know how far or wide Mueller will feel he can go without doing irreparable harm to the country, but to stop short would also do great damage.

All I know is that I would not want to be in his shoes.

If it were me, I would bring all wrong doers to justice, come hell or high water.
But I would not have lasted a week in the jungles of Viet Nam.

Perhaps some back room deals will be cut.
And are being negotiated as we speak.

[FakeNoose]

49. Only bad officers get fragged

The good leaders know how to inspire their men and earn their confidence and loyalty.
I'm certain Mueller knows the difference, and he's one of the good ones.
Just for the record, John Kerry was (and still is) also a good leader.

[Irish_Dem]

52. Exactly, that was my point for sure.

He survived danger all around him.
And in fact excelled.

Yes, Kerry did as well.

[Ccarmona]

5. Indictments May Have Already Been Filed and Sealed

It’s just a matter of time before Mueller unseals them and sends out the Marshalls to bring the indicted in.

[former9thward]

35. Is that coming from your twitter sources?

[Eyeball_Kid]

44. It's not a good idea to disparage twitter sources. Some of these folks are well-versed

and have extremely good sources of their own who don't trust parts of the MSM.

[former9thward]

48. Twitter is the sewer of the internet.

There are billions of tweets everyday and most are banal or rumor spreading or outright lies. If someone wants to make credible claims do it openly and present evidence that can be checked and verified. Anonymous sources are meaningless.

[Ccarmona]

50. Why Does That Even Matter?

You’re the Attorney, you tell me.
The four who’s indictments that have already been made public, were indicted prior them becoming unsealed and entered into the public realm.

[former9thward]

58. All indictments are private before they become public.

All. But they are not "sealed". And none of the four were either. The idea that Mueller has indicted people and is somehow waiting to charge people is unsupported by any evidence.

[left-of-center2012]

7. Maybe he's waiting until after the holidays

[kentuck]

9. Maybe he is thinking that might be too late?

He could be gone by then.

[Sophia4]

57. Let's see. Hanukkah this year is from Dec. 12-20. Hmmm.

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/chanukah/article_cdo/aid/671899/jewish/When-Is-Hanukkah-Chanukah-Celebrated-in-2017-2018-2019-and-2020.htm

[Motley13]

8. Hope it is Donnie Jr

and it could be since the moron is off the rails

[PJMcK]

34. Junior is an idiot

He's a secondary target.

The next target is probably Jared Kushner. He repeatedly lied about his meetings with foreigners during the campaign. Specifically, he didn't include those easily proven facts on his Standard Form 86 which he had to prepare and sign under oath in order to obtain his security clearance.

This violation, which carries a maximum prison term of five years, could be the lever that Mr. Mueller uses to force testimony out of Kushner. Kushner has been close to Trump during his transition and presidency and participated in many of Trump's decisions. His biggest mistake was urging Trump to fire James Comey and I think that could bring obstruction charges against him.

I'd like to see Junior and Usay both get busted but that's just for fun. Kushner is one of the real criminals in this cabal.

[Wellstone ruled]

11. We seem to get action on or just before the

28th of the month. At which time his Office files their Expenditures for the preceding month.

[DonViejo]

13. Trump lawyers set for key meeting with special counsel next week

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141940551

[BannonsLiver]

17. IMO the more people he indicts the harder it is for the GOP to kill it bytrying to discredit Mueller

The political consequences of trying to kill it grow for them with every indictment.

[kentuck]

18. I agree.

If he indicts a couple more of the Trump team, it will be more difficult to call it a "hoax" and say there is nothing there.

[former9thward]

38. He hasn't indicted anybody about the Russian subject matter.

Manafort and his partner were indicted for crimes long before Trump. Flynn and Papadopoulos were indicted on process crimes not substance crimes. This has been an 18 month investigation so far. One would think more would have come out of it by now.

[kentuck]

41. You are correct.

Lying to the FBI is a process crime. Although the lying was about talking with the Russians and lying about it.

Why do you think more has not come out of it by now?

[former9thward]

47. My view is not popular here.

Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:00 AM - Edit history (1)

I don't think much of the Russia investigation. I don't think Clinton lost because Russia was hacking ballots. Do I think Russia deliberately interferes in other country's elections including ours? Hell, yes. They have been doing it since Soviet times. Their first known attempt, when Truman called them on it, was in 1948 when they financed Wallace's third party bid.

Our hands are not clean when it comes to interfering in elections either. The list is long there, including Russia. And no I am not suggesting equivalency.

If Mueller wants to indict people on crimes he will find them. If you picked names of New York developers and lenders out of a hat you would find criminal violations no matter what their party. I just don't think there will crimes involving conspiracy with Russia and the election.

[rzemanfl]

54. Manafort can indict people? n/t

[former9thward]

59. Thank you for the catch.

I don't know why I put his name there. I edited it.

[rzemanfl]

67. Drumpf overload causes many mistakes. Be glad you weren't landing an aircraft. n/t

[kentuck]

68. I think the crimes are much larger and much more dangerous.

I think we need to view it from the perspective of an oligarch and how to protect oneself while making billions of dollars thru money-laundering and gaming the system. Also, we should look at the destruction of our institutions and the breakdown of government as we have known it. It is about power and propaganda.

[OnDoutside]

19. Eric Garland puts a bit of perspective on all this

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

For me, Point 2 is a crucial one. The Intel Agencies of the US allies have a mountain of info (and apparently audio/video) on the treasonous activities of Trump and his gang. Ultimately this is the fail safe.

[leftynyc]

25. I honestly think

Donnie never thought he'd win the election but saw the campaign as a way to deal with his massive debt to Russian banks - make a financial deal that would help his son in law out of his massive financial problems and hurt Hillary so she couldn't be an effective president. He never expected ANY of this to come out. Why would it? That's why they were sloppy.

[kentuck]

27. I think he had a bunch of "deals" going on with Russian oligarchs and other criminals..

..and he kept with his business deals after he was sworn in as President and continues even today.

[leftynyc]

60. Agree

Trump tower is filled with owners that are Russian mobsters. Been known in NYC for a long time. Donnie is covered in sleaze. His sucking up to Putin is revolting to watch but we know why it's happening. Mueller just needs to get the proof.

[Eyeball_Kid]

46. It sounds like being careful of what you wish for, eh?

Trumpy bit off way more than he could chew. He campaigned on style with no substance. Now he's got no substance, and there's much worse in store for him.

[leftynyc]

61. The Alabama election

was important in its many messages. We pick up a seat but also, not only did many 2016 trump voters not want to vote for Moore, they also didn't give a crap that Donnie begged them to do it FOR HIM - they still stayed home/voted for someone else. Because he insists on living in his Fox News bubble, I don't think he even realizes the trouble he's in.

[Wwcd]

30. Absolutely. This is a global effort with our allies on board.

That is a massive advantage for Mueller & those who refuse to allow Putin to steamroll the world.

We all collect & share Intel

Thanks for your post

[marble falls]

33. Jared is next. Pure speculation, but it seems likely.

[Irish_Dem]

37. I think there is only one reason Mueller would back off, or change

course.

If he were convinced that the outcome of his investigation would do irreparable harm to the United States and its institutions. At this point he feels the opposite I think, but I am not sure how things will unfold in the future.

[kentuck]

39. I think that is probably something that he has given considerably thought?

The farthest he would probably go would be to recommend impeachment if it reached into the White House, which many think it probably does?

[Irish_Dem]

45. I am quite sure he has thought about what we are now discussing.

Kentuck, think about it. Say you are conducting a highly visible investigation.

And you find evidence of criminal activity, including treason, at the highest levels of government, in the White House, and also in the United States Congress. You have some very solid evidence and some is speculation. And you know that what you have found, and will continue to find, could have a very damaging impact on the country, its institutions, government, economy, etc.

But to do nothing could also be quite damaging.

So you have some choices to make?

[hvn_nbr_2]

40. I see three ways that he might go

1. He may still be working at flipping more people. I'm thinking in particular of the guy who was in charge of Cheeto's computer stuff (forget his name)--he has always seemed to me to be flippable and also to know a whole lot. There are probably several others, maybe even people that we've never even heard of.

2. one indictment against an inner-circle person (Jared or Don Jr. probably) on one charge that is not a charge that states (primarily NY) could charge. This approach would be to get Cadet Bone Spurs to show if he's going to use the pardon, maybe even trick him into using it so that the person can't claim the 5th amendment.

3. a massive set of indictments of several, even many, people with many individual charges, spelled out in significant detail, to bury the "witch hunt" and "nothing happened" memes under a ton of facts. I think that the level of wingnut attacks on Mueller, the investigation, and the FBI and all the wingnut calls to fire him may make this outcome closer on Mueller's horizon than it would otherwise be.

[kentuck]

42. It is a deep and complex investigation...

with a lot of participants.

He would like to uncover as much as possible before indictments, I would think?

[Irish_Dem]

56. Unless he is using some indictments as a way to uncover more information.

And the indictments are messages to other people.

He is using psychology as well as the law.
The very public morning raid on Manafort told us that.

[kentuck]

64. We simply do not know how much information he has gathered on Trump's finances?

And that may be where the big crimes are?

[Irish_Dem]

69. Mueller has Trump's tax returns and Deutsche Bank records?

At least that is what the press has been reporting.

I would assume Mueller is looking for material indicating a Russian /Trump quid pro quo or blackmail? Or at least the trail of how Trump has been incentivized by Putin in the past decade.

[Irish_Dem]

55. I would add #4. Back room deals and resignations in Congress and the WH.

People leaving to spend more time with their family.
But no formal charges.

I think all four options are in play.

[kentuck]

63. I would have asked the "poster removed" a couple of small questions if he had stayed?

What is wrong with the truth? What are you hiding? Why do you have to lie about everything to do with Russia? Why do you like Putin so much? Why do you have hundreds of LLC's all around the world? Why do you hate America? How did you get so lost? It may be unimportant to incurious people but some people care very much.

[milestogo]

65. Guessing gets us nowhere.

[kentuck]

66. Conversation is better than silence, don't you think?

What is wrong with discussion of interesting topics?

[brooklynite]

70. He doesnt feel the need to show anything...

...because that’t Not his job.