So we win a massive upset Senate seat, and some here want to ruin the fun

[Elwood P Dowd]

by constantly posting about the voters who DIDN'T vote for our guy. We're fighting 30+ years of lies and propaganda. Its going to take time, but we've made some big cracks in the armor. Trump and the repukes have lost 15% of their support in freaking Alabama the past year. Rome wasn't built in a day folks. Keep chopping that wood.

[TexasProgresive]

1. What Mr. Dowd says! n/t

[Kingofalldems]

2. Glad you noticed.

Right wing propaganda being posted.

Kick and Rec.

[Kber]

3. Were running a marathon not a sprint

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. A big, fat K&R!

You are so absolutely right!

It IS a marathon, and not a sprint.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

5. K & R

[leftynyc]

6. SOME DUers

live to crap on any good news for Democrats. I would suggest using the ignore button.

[Demsrule86]

58. There are some here who hate Democrats and don't appear to want them to win....don't get that.

[leftynyc]

69. Psst

Shhhhhh- they're not Democrats. They may not even be Americans. Again...ignore button is a dandy device.

[Demsrule86]

82. Thanks for the advice...

[DownriverDem]

73. Who are they?

Crap on the Dems? Who the hell are those folks? We have a two party system. That's how it works. We explained it over and over, but some folks still didn't get it and we have trump. Why are those negative folks allowed to post here? If you lean left, you support the Dems. Have a problem with the Dems? Go the the monthly meetings in your congressional district and work for the changes you want. Don't be naive and think third party will gain you anything. All it will gain is repub wins.

[leftynyc]

81. Agree 100%

I just use the ignore button, they're not worth my time or the aggravation. It's not allowed, under DU rules, to call out other posters.

[Phoenix61]

7. I've thought the same thing

This was a really, really big deal. A dem won in Alabama! Freaking Alabama! I think that is something to celebrate. Merry Christmas us.

[demmiblue]

8. It doesn't ruin my fun; I am still ecstatic.

I also don't mind them posting the harsh reality.

What is the worst, imo, are threads that are started in order to call out/divide DUers.

[LAS14]

30. k & r

[cwydro]

9. K n r. nt

[edhopper]

10. Some of us see that this victory

was solely due to the reprehensible nature of the GOP candidate.

Not any Dem surge in Alabama.

[groundloop]

20. However, this is pretty huge in that Rs can't just trot out any vile snake and expect a win anymore

What's also important is that the African American community got energized and turned out in big number to vote. The NAACP and some other organization whom I can't recall at the moment put a lot of work into the ground game and set a model which can be copied on other parts of the country.

[edhopper]

29. This is true

The black turn out was a positive.

[ancianita]

33. Know what offset that problem in other states? The same strategy was employed in AL.

Exit polls conflicted.

Jones also got more money from Alabama voters than Moore did, raising about $4 million from voter contributions, compared to Moore’s $77,100. That has to tell you something. Same happened in VA.

Jones won BECAUSE of the Democratic Party -- he got $12 million, overall, compared to Moore's $5 million.

[edhopper]

67. Moore didn't get the usual GOP big bucks

because he is a pedophile.
A "normal" repug candidate would have gotten millions more.

[comradebillyboy]

11. Kudos to a great win for Jones and to all the folks who

contributed to his victory. Especially the Alabama Democrats, the NAACP, and Corey Booker. And we should also congratulate Jones on running an excellent campaign.

[Hortensis]

53. +100.

[unc70]

12. Notice what else those DUers post

I have recently been noticing the posting patterns of several DUers who have pushed those threads yesterday and today. They seem to be in the forefront of stirring the pot on various topics. Until recently I had not noticed their posting style. They are mostly longtime members, and I had generally given them a pass. Now, when there is cause, I will likely take action.

[LAS14]

32. Shouldn't a discussion forum have stirred pots????

If you don't like them, don't read them.

[kcr]

45. Nothing wrong with stirring a pot as long as there's a meaningful purpose behind it.

Sometimes people do need to be knocked out of their comfort zones to get them to think. But stirring the pot just for pot stirring is pointless, and that's being generous.

[LAS14]

47. And why do we assume that the pot stirrers have no better motives than just to stir? nt

[Hortensis]

54. I don't assume you don't know the answer

perfectly well.

[SWBTATTReg]

13. Amen!

You have to take one step at a time to get to where you're going. Repeat, repeat, repeat...

Never, ever, ever again will we allow such morons to hold us the American people hostage while they solely represent the 1% of the 1% (and ignoring / taking away everything from us)...never again!!

[Qutzupalotl]

14. Lots of threads during the AL election designed to depress

with titles like, “It’s not looking good ... sorry.”

F that. Support Democrats or GTFO.

[Fred Sanders]

21. What liberal would post depressing threads on a close election night? Only concern trolls. Da!

[Terminally_Chill]

15. agreed.. FUX "news" lies are all over the USA.

but Alabama and the southern states receive a concentrated version.. but Jones pulled through.

[EffieBlack]

16. I think some of us aren't posting about who didn't vote for our guy for the sake of calling them out

but are trying to focus attention on WHO actually DID vote for our team in order to make sure we know the lay of the land moving forward.

For example, I am sick to death of people assuming that white women who keep voting Republican are the Democratic Party saviors and if we just put more time, more money, more effort into our chase after them, we will reap huge benefits - while we continue to ignore the people of color in our own backyard who have been loyally carrying the water for us for years.

Instead of criticizing and sneering at so-called "identity politics," we should be embracing it - and putting much more effort into making sure that black and brown voters are heard and don't have their votes and voices suppressed.

For example, if we spent a fraction of the effort that we spend in chasing around after voters who continually vote against us into instead fighting voter suppression, we would have a guaranteed and unstoppable base.

[spicysista]

17. +1000

Yes and yes! This should be shouted from the roof tops! We need to keep the tent as spacious as possible, but we also need to listen to and acknowledge our base. Ours is a coalition of people from all walks of life. However, our coalition does have a heart and it is black and female.

[EffieBlack]

19. THANK you!

I'm appalled at how many people seem to take offense at this being pointed out.

[Hortensis]

55. Blacks are only 13% of the population.

Hugely important to us now, and at 26% of Alabamans they carried the day gloriously, but nationally they're only 13% and in many states single digits. A heart that was only black and varying percentages of nonblack women would be a recipe for national disaster. Fortunately, it's not just that.

More young people are being energized to vote -- some black, at least half female, but a majority of them Democrat.

We're also getting a significant portion of those Hispanics who vote, a majority female, though still in too low numbers (no doubt part of the reason Trump's mostly stopped badmouthing them, to avoid stirring them up further).

But please, let's remember and honor the third of white working men who vote Democrat. There are a whole lot of them, and they were and still are a hugely important part of the Democratic Party base.

[spicysista]

59. Well...

I believe you're speaking on the number of black people that are american citizens. I'm talking about the registered and super active democratic base. Black women make a huge percentage of the democratic voting base. I'm not talking about the entire population of the United states.
Have you ever been to a democratic state convention in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, or South Carolina? If you have, then I'm certain you know what I'm talking about. There is no other group that has been more reliable to gotv. Especially in the south.

[Hortensis]

68. "Black women...huge percentage of..democratic voting base."

What is that percentage, Spicysista? Nationally? For sure it's far higher than their numbers would suggest since they are currently turning out in high numbers and that's all that matters. But what is that percentage?

In my state, Georgia, they're almost 1/3 of the population. Where they do vote their numbers for a candidate, needless to say they can make a huge difference.

Wyoming, now... Because it's a low-population state and Georgia is a high-population state, after filtering through the electoral college, each Wyoming vote counts 3 times for each 1 Georgia vote. Unfortunately, blacks are only 1.3% of the population in Wyoming. This is the pattern for all of the lower-population states that are greatly advantaged by the electoral college.

Plus, significant percentages live in large cities and are part of that huge Democratic demographic disadvantage we all share: Tens of millions of urban votes are wasted. Ideally, we'd win each race by 1 vote, not 1 million, and that other million would be spread out to win dozens of races in smaller towns, but that latter pattern is the Republican advantage.

Gerrymandering of black voting districts...

I'm in no way belittling the importance of black people as part of the Democratic coalition, it's huge, and certainly not black women, only just maybe grabbing a foot and pulling it back to earth. It's understandable to want heroes and lifelines in troubled times, but we can't heave a happy sigh of relief after Alabama and imagine that the commitment of black women will be able to save America, even if the entire 6.5% or so of them votes religiously Democrat every time.

Just hoping what they do offer is catching...

[Willie Pep]

71. Each state is different.

Some states are so heavily white that we need white voters to win and cannot simply win by significantly increasing turnout among non-whites. That is why the Doug Jones situation is not likely to repeat itself everywhere.

We cannot dismiss any part of the Democratic coalition and we really should be expanding it by getting more people out to vote. Compared to other industrialized democracies voter turnout in the U.S. is pretty abysmal. Non-voters tend to be more liberal than regular voters because non-voters are usually poorer. But so many poor people of all races are demoralized these days so it will require a massive voter registration and GOTV effort to get them to the polls plus we have to combat Republican attempts at voter suppression.

[Hortensis]

72. +99. Strongly agree almost entirely. :)

Of course demoralization and cultures of nonengagement are certainly factors.

But GOTTA refute the notion that nonvoters tend to be liberal mostly because of poverty. (By extension, could we say poverty apparently causes liberalism, or liberals tend to be poor?) No. To one or all three.

Actually, hate to say it, but people trending liberal by personality just tend to vote in lower numbers than conservatives. They tend to be more easygoing and less inclined to become anxious with things like the changes we see everywhere, which are a huge driver of conservatives to the polls.

Liberals also tend to have a more positive view of human nature and assume people will mostly do good on their own, that they don't need government to keep society from collapsing into immoral chaos. Conservatives in general have a darker view of humanity, going hand in glove with their tendencies to greater fear and anxiety, and are far more likely to feel that people will behave badly, and that society will eventually collapse, if not forced to be good. Another huge driver of conservatives to the polls.

But to the notion that most poor people are "liberal": A lot more poor people are conservative than liberal because, in large part, of the overlap of poverty and conservative culture geographically. And even in more liberal northern cities, poor people are a mix of ideologies. Plus, whatever their basic natures, adversity causes people to feel and behave more conservatively than they would otherwise.

But importantly, even when poor conservatives vote Democrat, that doesn't make them liberal. It just makes them conservatives voting Democrat, almost always against what the GOP's up to. As conservatives, they typically despise a lot of Democratic Party goals as much as white conservatives.

Most poor people, if they vote, vote their principles, or gut feelings, not for personal gain, as study after study shows. Strikingly so in those of often desperately poor conservatives in red states and inner cities who would seem to have so much to gain by Democratic government and always choose against it.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. Damn straight effie!

[LanternWaste]

41. You get a +1 from me on every point you made.

You get a +1 from me on every point you made.

The political arena is not a place to sing Kumbaya, and the analysis and criticism of demographics are both relevant and part of the equation.

[VermontKevin]

46. Well said.

[Lucky Luciano]

50. It is taking the POC vote for granted.

I do understand trying to chase the marginal voter though. The POC are not on the fence figuring out if they want the dem or the crazy person, but some of those white people are. Some of the POC are on the fence over voting for the dem or staying home and that too is huge and should never be taken for granted.

Separately, I wish there was a nonprofit that raised money solely for the purpose of securing voter IDs for those that don’t have one. I mentioned it before here, but some thought it might be illegal. I consider the requirement a poll tax, so take it to the supreme court (I know - Gorsuch won’t help).

[58Sunliner]

63. I have been voting for over 40 years. What lay of the land are you talking about?

The only people who want us chasing repubs are the media. Your phrase, "carrying water for us" says so much about how you view your participation in the voting/political process. Sorry-you should be voting for your interests. I am grateful that we are having a greater participation from all people, including AA because that is what it takes. It is empowering. This work is decades in the making, and has included all colors, races, sexes, and sexual orientation. The LGBTQ community, of which I'm part, has had an uphill battle all the way. I have been waiting/working years for this moment. Identity politics is one thing, what I take issue with is the stance that only one race has gotten us here. It is simplistic and untrue. And I hate to have Latinos, Asians, Indians, Native Americans etc... reading this assertion of identity for the Democratic party and not feeling like their contributions are even considered. The Democratic party is supposed to be about unity of ideals, values that we work for.

[EffieBlack]

65. Are you serious?

The only people wanting us to chase Republicans are the media?

You must not spend much time on DU or listening to Bernie Sanders ...

And it seems that, if you're so offended by anyone saying that black voters are largely responsible for Doug Jones' victory but didn't object when the media claimed that "women and blacks" defeated Moore, then your concern is noted but not very valid.

[58Sunliner]

77. Are you serious? How many posts say we need repub votes that do not get challenged?

I spend time on DU every day. I am not offended by the reality that blacks were crucial to the Alabama victory, but it looks like you can't do the math if you think it was blacks alone. It also looks like you can't think beyond vote tallies to the broad base of commitment, money, etc,,in the campaign and the GOTV that is all part of the process. Women, blacks, write-in votes etc.. were all factors. Like it or not. The other factor was that only 40.4% of Alabama voted. I think if I said the same thing about a predominantly white state and ignored the contributions of black votes I would be, and should be, taken to task.

[stonecutter357]

18. K&R

[paulkienitz]

22. Exactly. We've taken a big step forward against the cult of lies

and each further step takes more time and work.

[Snotcicles]

23. I think with a little help from his fellow Senators Alabama could fall in love with Jones. nt

[Paladin]

24. K&R.

[Mrs. Overall]

25. 100% agree with you, Elwood.

[onecaliberal]

26. Because a majority of white people voting for a pedophile should be celebrated.

I’m astonished how many are making excuses for them.

[EffieBlack]

35. I know, right?

[Nitram]

39. I haven't seen a single liberal make excuses for Moore voters.

Looking for reasons why people vote for bad candidates is not the same as making excuses for them. It is about figuring out who the enemy is and how to beat them if we can't persuade them.

[Orrex]

27. That's the primary M.O. of one poster in particular

Every piece of good news is met with a quick "yeah, but" to remind us how shitty the world is and how much wiser and more "truly" progressive the shit-observer is.

I've made a habit of either ignoring or mocking those posts.

[VOX]

28. Precisely! K&R.

[niyad]

31. sadly, nothing new there.

I do like the comment I read yesterday morning that we should all thank bannon. it took someone really special to make sure an adamantly pro-choice DEMOCRAT won in virulently anti-choice, and oh-so-red Alabama.

Personally, I think Doug Jones should send orange a nice fruit basket, for giving him the opportunity to take the seat. after all, had orange left the revolting keebler elf in place, the seat would not have been up for grabs, and would still be in asshole hands.

[kstewart33]

34. Wise words, Mr. Dowd. nt

[wildeyed]

36. We picked up a Senate seat in the deep red state of ALABAMA!

Talk about a Christmas miracle! The GOP should be pissing their pants right about now. And the guy who won prosecuted the Birmingham Church Bombing murders, too, so good on him and Alabama for the win!

[TheOther95Percent]

37. Amen.

[Nitram]

38. I think the point is that we can't let up the pressure. It will take a lot of work and money to win

the Senate and the House. We have a right to celebrate, but then we have to get back to work and keep fighting. Over-confidence and complacency are the biggest dangers after one upset.

[c-rational]

42. Love your post. Focus on the task at hand. To chopping wood.

[smirkymonkey]

43. Thank YOU!

God, things have been depressing enough. We don't need our own to pile on when something good happens.

[grantcart]

44. A year ago at this time if anybody suggested that we had a Senator from AL people would

have been absolutely ecstatic with joy.

I am having a great week. don't care what they do.

[world wide wally]

48. 3 Words:

It was Alabama for Christs sake!

[wallyworld2]

49. Not only is this a big win

It's a bigly maga happy win.

And that is a fact.

People came out to vote for someone they believe represent them.

That is good.

That is so much better than not voting and staying at home because your guy doesn't represent your views extremely enough, like on guns, gawd and abortion.

The people of Alabama voted for a hopeful future.

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. Winning in AL is impossible, so yes, this was amazing.

[DesertFlower]

52. it's not just lies and propagana. some people

are racists. that's one reason we got trump.

that said. i'm thrilled that doug jones one. hopefully we'll get a dem in flake's seat. don't know how long mccain will live. hopefully we'll get a dem in his seat when he leaves.

we had some big wins on election day. hopefully we'll take the house and senate.

[Demsrule86]

56. I agree...we have a Democrat in Alabama!!!!! A Senator!!!!!

In the words of our esteemed former Vice President...big fucking deal.

[58Sunliner]

57. No one race has won a democratic election recently by itself.

I am surprised that people keep forgetting how many people are not voting. It isn't about the republican white voter, it's about the non-voter, the voter suppression, etc..Those are the votes we are hoping to include. The constant comments about most white women in X voted for x ignores how many did not vote. I am not interested in chasing repub votes. Each state is different. Alabama would have been lost, given all the factors, had 22,000+ people (1.7%), not written in a candidate, in spite of the AA vote turnout. Had the AA vote not been high, or the @3 % of people who voted repub, not voted for DJ, we would have lost. If of the WW who voted, that percentage had not voted for DJ, we would have lost. Then there is the @3 -4% of Asians, Latinos, Muslims etc..who also voted for DJ, without whom we would have lost. And who knows if voter fraud was not an issue. To say the heart of the Democratic party is one race is untrue. Unless we want to keep polarizing Dems. It also negates on a national level, all the work that many groups have done for the Democratic party.

[Willie Pep]

70. Plus we can't replicate the Doug Jones win everywhere.

Some states don't have large enough African-American or minority populations to win just by maxing turnout with minorities. In other states we have to win more white voters. I agree that winning over large numbers of Republicans is likely not going to happen but there are a lot of non-voters who we can mobilize and get to the polls and many of them are white.

[58Sunliner]

78. Exactly. The voter base differs in each state.

I can't think of a single state where we don't need every single vote.

[KPN]

60. K&R!

Thank you. Well said. It reminds me of what Jack Ward Thomas said about environmentalists after the Northwest Forest Plan was adopted to manage federal forest lands in the Pacific Northwest: "It's like running around bayoneting the wounded after you've already won the war" or very similar words. It's crazy ... and radical-like.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

61. Well said

We need to play the long game.

[lordsummerisle]

62. K&R n/t

[KelleyKramer]

64. Umm, they lost 30% support in the last year, Trump won Alabama by 28%

[ecstatic]

66. If you're saying what I think you're saying, I don't like this

And I'm happy as hell about the win, and have expressed disagreement with people who are already worrying about Jones being too conservative.

But if this post is meant to silence people of color and others who noted, correctly, that most of the white voters voted for the Confederacy supporting pedophile, then sorry, but no. Think of the optics of what you're suggesting, and try again.

[Blue_Tires]

74. That is 100% by design, too

A whole lot of thought leaders on the left want Dems to be permanent beautiful losers

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029976570

[Honeycombe8]

75. Some people may not understand Alabamy. I do. I'm from Luziany. :) nt

[Polly Hennessey]

76. I am thrilled.

Shows we can win if we use the right strategy. We need to use Cory Booker more. Shows what the NAACP can do when it really becomes involved. I feel just fine basking in our glory. Take each of our moments and enjoy them.

[Renew Deal]

79. You have to understand that some of those people are america haters that want to see the US...

destroyed. Others are Russian trolls. And some are plain old morans. There is nothing you could say or do to satisfy these groups. Their mission is to see the US fail for whatever reasons.

[MineralMan]

80. Any Democrat winning a Senate seat in Alabama is reason to cheer.

Anyone who says otherwise is not a friend, and probably not actually a Democrat at all.

It's Alabama, for pity's sake. The reddest of the red states, it could be argued. We were lucky that Roy Moore was the Republican candidate. If it had been anyone else, the Republican would have won.

Congratulations to Doug Jones! Sucks to be anyone who is speaking against his win.