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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerica's malls are rotting away
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/12/news/companies/mall-closing/index.htmlThe worst is yet to come for American shopping malls. As Macy's, JCPenney, Sears and other major department stores close their doors, the malls that housed those stores are facing a serious crisis.
That's because when so-called anchor tenants leave a mall, it opens the door for other stores to break their leases or negotiate much cheaper rent.
As one big store closes, it can take several smaller stores along with it like a house of cards. Experts predict that a quarter of American malls will close in five years -- around 300 out of 1,100 that currently exist.
Retailers often sign co-tenancy agreements in their leases with malls, allowing them to reduce their rent or get out of a lease if a big store closes.
That's because the smaller retailers next to anchor stores no longer benefit from the foot traffic that the major retailers received ...
Sears (SHLD), which had operated nearly 3,800 stores as recently as a decade ago is now down to 1,104 stores. Macy's (M) closed 68 stores this year, and JCPenney (JCP) was set to shutter 128.
Some successful malls may be able to survive if they can convert department stores' spaces into better attractions for consumers.
There will be a new push to get food halls and entertainment in malls, and make it more of an experience that will draw people in.
Experts classify malls into "A" "B" "C" and "D" grades characterized in part by sales per square footage of the malls. "B" malls and below are going to have a particularly hard time with the financial burden of the changing mall landscape.
The retail loan default rate is currently hovering around 5%, but Brown expects that number to triple.
And with defaults come bankruptcies -- lots an lots of bankruptcies. More than 300 retailers have already filed for bankruptcy this year.
Fullduplexxx
(7,863 posts)Amishman
(5,557 posts)What is greedy about a subdivided retail space under one roof? The only price the mall controls is their rental rates, and I really doubt their current pricing model is their problem
Fullduplexxx
(7,863 posts)A convenience fee. Anyway i noticed this some time ago and stopped going to them if i could help it. Ymmv
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Sell the same merch at different prices but large retailers will have the same in store price all across the country. Sometimes they will have specials that are "in store" or "online" only, but nope.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)I do 90% of my shopping online. Can't be bothered with that mall hysteria insanity.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)occasional trips to WalMart, a hardware store, or maybe Office Depot. I love being able to avoid driving, traffic, parking, walking -- esp. since I'm basically disabled (hard to admit it), and my husband also has a handicapped tag.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)I'm staring to use Amazon pantry and just bought some awesome bone broth from them that I cannot find in any supermarkets.
And so it begins...
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)depending on affordability. OTOH, maybe not. My husband seems to love the grocery store and grocery shopping.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)marybourg
(12,631 posts)more than 10 times in the 60 or so years there've been indoor malls near me.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)7 years since we moved here.
underpants
(182,811 posts)Theaters create a lot more foot traffic the theory goes.
With on-line shopping (Amazon's amazing delivery speed) and communication technology the malls aren't needed for shopping or even socializing.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)underpants
(182,811 posts)This used to be THE higher end mall but two really high end shopping centers (one has a hotel in it) have been built within the last 10 years or so within 5 miles of it. They are just trying to hold on.
bdamomma
(63,849 posts)for the people who will be losing jobs though. Very sad indeed.
no_hypocrisy
(46,114 posts)subsidized residential taxes in a community. The loss of millions of dollars of revenue for municipal budgets means the loss being distributed to taxpayers.
New Jersey is full of malls. With the proposed tax reform, not only will homeowners be denied deductions, the tab could go up a few thousand a year without even one anchor store.
EllieBC
(3,014 posts)Stores refusing to stock more than 3 shirts over a size 8. Also, tired of being told what I'll wear. I don't care if mini skirts are the thing this year. I can find longer skirts online. So why buy stuff I don't want when I can find what I want?
Oh and I don't have to fight for a parking spot or be limited to mall hours.
Win win win.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)from factors of their day, at the same time displacing older ways which arose from factors of their day. Some are being restyled as entertainment centers and will continue on. Others will be torn down.
Notably, inner cities are going upscale, becoming wonderful centers for amenities even as they drive out most people.
Many suburbs grew up around the limited amenity of malls, supplemented by increasingly expensive and inaccessible city amenities.
What happens when whole residential areas are left without mall centers far from expensive city centers?
I don't think we should be distressed by the passing of this model, though. It has tremendous flaws, and we can and will do much better. Probably return to something more like the old town models malls displaced.
In any case, new centers in new forms will grow up to meet the need for socialization and a variety of amenities, rather than just shopping. Some suburban areas will become much better, while others regrettably continue the decline that has already started.
An interesting question that no doubt is being answered is how will the continued sorting out of people into diverse liberal areas and conforming conservative areas affect and be affected by the decline of the shopping mall?
shraby
(21,946 posts)out in the cold to visit another store.
It's too bad they are failing.
LeftInTX
(25,341 posts)Perhaps they will persist in those areas.
In Texas, malls are popular with teens and young adults. Stores like Penney's and Sears are not visited by that group.
ProfessorGAC
(65,044 posts)There's one dying about 20 miles south and a dead one that's now a Walmart and Menard's complex 20 miles north.
And it's 12 degrees here right now!
Don't think the cold weather is going to save the on south of us.
Glorfindel
(9,730 posts)though it was never as exciting as shopping at the huge Rich's or Davison's in downtown Atlanta when I was a boy. My idea of heaven was the mezzanine bookstore at the downtown Davison's. I'd get to go maybe three or four times a year, and it was always a thrill. Things change, and not always for the better.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)of shopping at Stix, Baer & Fuller and Famous-Barr in DT St. Louis in my childhood years. I remember the stamps (I was into philately) at Famous, and the banana splits in the middle of the afternoon at their lunch bar or maybe Kresge's (??). Or the nicer lunches in the Tea Room. Occasionally we did our shopping in the morning (my mom was a sales hound) then took in an afternoon movie at The Ambassador, I think it was. Beautiful old theater. Ahhh, the good old days. The only movie I remember seeing is Trapeze, with Tony Curtis, Gina Lolabrigida, and Kirk Douglas, I think. (Did I get them right?)
And since it's Christmas, I'll go ahead and share a picture of my younger brother, c. 1955. We always made the trek into St. Louis (from across the Mississippi R in Illinois) to see Santa and have dinner out, and my dad would join us. My mother was SO into Christmas. I love the nail polish he's wearing. LOL. Bless him. He died in August, and his birthday was December 10.
irisblue
(32,975 posts)I am sorry for your loss
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)He was a good guy. And I miss him.
Glorfindel
(9,730 posts)and how lucky he was to have a big brother like you! You got "Trapeze" right, I think. My lord, the old movie palaces and what a thrill it was to go there. Only The Fox is left in Atlanta, but I remember the Roxy, Loew's Grand (where "Gone with the Wind" premiered), the Paramount, and the Rialto, Things just aren't as exciting as they once were...even down to the creme de menthe parfaits at Rich's.
I even went to a fashion show (yuck) with some female cousins at Davison's once, and it was the first time I remember hearing "This Land Is Your Land." But I got a pair of corduroy pants out of it, courtesy of my uncle, so it wasn't a wasted experience.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Big sister, actually. And you're darn right! He WAS lucky.
And so was I. Very.
Glorfindel
(9,730 posts)Radio City Music Hall in New York. I've been to them both, more than once, and the Fox is more impressive (to me, at least). I'm sorry about the big sister thing. I had one, too, and was more than lucky.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)I am too.
lame54
(35,290 posts)malaise
(269,004 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)creative in exploring environment and services that arent available elsewhere.
Or in reimagining ones that are.
Read recently about how a floating bookstore is doing very well in London, even as chain bookstores are flailing.
Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)Retail jobs are on their way out, they are being replaced by less desirable warehouse work. And that is being automated quickly too.
The next big change is America will be full automation of retail and delivery jobs.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)implement automation and then control it. All of these jobs should pay more than retail.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)genxlib
(5,528 posts)Yes, online shopping is hurting them.
Yes, a "department store" is a throw back concept that has been somewhat displaced by Walmart, Target, etc.
But I have never seen mentioned that developers are cannibals. Those bright shiny new commercial developments don't create new customers. They just steal ones away from the older developments that have them.
There are definitive trends in development that run in cycles. Malls were a cycle. Then came mixed use restaurant shopping venues like Miami Bayside, South Street Seaport, etc.. Then came the multi-story entertainment centers with theaters/bars and stores. Now we have gone full circle to fake open air shopping neighborhoods with stores along old fashioned streets.
Each iteration becomes popular and the old one suffers. Malls are just at the losing end of that chain of upgrades.
Laxman
(2,419 posts)was an unsustainable poorly thought out land use practice. Malls did incalculable damage to America's towns, not to mention the drain on infrastructure dollars to provide access and utilities and the environmental impact. The business model has run its course. Mall operators can try every gimmick under the sun to coax another decade of life out their dying investments. Malls are history. Good riddance.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)The sidewalks and streets downtown in the city where I went to high school in the early 1960's (New Kensington, PA)
were packed to overflowing on Friday nights and all day Saturday with shoppers.
Now they are deserted and most stores downtown sit empty,
the stores having moved to the malls and strip malls out of downtown.
Stinky The Clown
(67,799 posts)Freethinker65
(10,022 posts)Have all lead to the decline.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)apartments
schools
medical centers
office space
storage
etc....
https://www.cbsnews.com/media/10-new-uses-for-abandoned-malls/
Kaleva
(36,304 posts)Tanuki
(14,918 posts)and gave it a new life as outpatient clinic space. It is really a win-win situation, as it frees up space around the original, campus area medical center, and there is parking galore at the mall location. The remaining stores and restaurants in the mall and its periphery have a new infusion of business from the staff and patients who are already on the premises. It also happens to be closer to a major highway. The article you linked has several great ideas for repurposing malls as consumer shopping patterns evolve.
LisaM
(27,812 posts)Medical and office buildings seem like the most logical choices.
You'd think a few grocery stores here and there would help, too. While I get that malls helped force out the mom and pop businesses (which I like, and frequent where possible), the fact is, the building are there now. Leaving them to rot doesn't seem like a good option.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Upper level remodeled for apartment style housing, with lower levels for stores, eateries, etc. that cater to them, with some indoor green spaces. Just a thought.
flotsam
(3,268 posts)The best idea I've seen were seniors villages. I've seen a story on one that recreated the main street of a small town, you know bakeries a small grocery store a library and a pharmacy with a soda fountain...Park like areas a movie theater with classic movies...Unlimited opportunities with a lot of room to incubate ideas...
Kaleva
(36,304 posts)Convert a section or level to single or two bedroom apartments for seniors and the rest for stores that cater to seniors. But it may be cheaper to build new then to renovate an old mall into such a purpose. Or build an new apartment complex that is attached to the mall in an adjacent parking lot. The mall would contain entertainment, outpatient health care facilities, stores, and eating areas.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)the above mentioned stores look very obsolete to me, Id never shop there. Even Kohls is doing a better job. Of course, always an opportunity to repurpose: new grocery store, restaurants, movie theater, school, hotel, hospital, medical offices, night club, bars, etc. Technology is transforming retail. And whats so good about retail, they pay very little. People are more willing to pay for service than goods so, IMO, service economy is the way to go and it should replace retail economy.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)The Kohl's near me has very limited merchandise and I find the prices higher.
Freddie
(9,267 posts)All the various discounts, Kohl's Cash, etc. My daughter loves it, I can't be bothered. Plus their selection in larger-size women's clothes stinks. It's great for kids and teens.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)Freddie
(9,267 posts)A fun (and creepy at times) series on YouTube, check it out.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Strip malls will be anchored by a supermarket and a big box store with a variety of small stores in between. Big box includes a Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, Kohl's, Target, etc. Sometimes there is also a movie theater, gym, liquor store, etc. The linear configuration of the strip mall makes it easier to park close to the particular store you want to go to.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)Malls gave us jobs and a place to hang out when we weren't working. Without cell phones, malls were a centralized location where we could all meet up, typically the food court where many of us worked. Importantly, the money we earned working in the mall was part of a disposable income that we spent in the mall.
These days it seems many malls require chaperones and impose curfews for teens, the very demographic whose disposable income they once coveted. It also seems few teens are employed at the mall. Even teen-targeted stores like Hot Topic and Fye, the employees all seem to be much older.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)I'm a 90s teen and lived at the mall.
I also worked at Bath and Body Works in the early 2000s
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)almost since it was first possible to buy things other than books on amazon etc. I tired of the mall experience at about age 13 also malls were starting to have problems (including issues with gun violence) in SoCal by the mid to late 80s. Mall shopping, which was frankly exhausting and dangerous if one parked in the wrong area, lost all appeal.
irisblue
(32,975 posts)Proud liberal 80
(4,167 posts)Instead of anchor stores they need to go with anchor restaurants like Dave and Busters, Buffalo Wild Wings, TGI Fridays, etc...Or a movie theatre.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)The shopping mall is the bane of urban America. It's the most symbolic piece of white flight, sprawl and the complete destruction of Main Street, USA. So many cities, from major to minor, were left for dead because the heart of the retail center of the region shifted to the mall. This led to less walking, more driving, larger highways (not a coincidence most malls are next to massive freeways), larger, sprawling areas and, because of it, more pollution.
Good riddance.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)In the Midwest, a bunch of Gordman's stores closed; dead K Mart space abounds; one can logically conclude dead Toys R Us space will soon dot the landscapes; dead office supply store space abounds after the Office Depot/Max merger; empty Sports Authority stores. We still buy stuff - just differently.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,858 posts)I can go into to try on clothing or shoes.
I'm only a semi-standard size, and absolutely must try on to know if something is going to fit. Especially shoes.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)The rents are horrifically high.