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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAl's punishment should fit the crime.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that everything Al Franken is accused of is true. The one-time groping (captured in a picture), the kissing, the squeezing.
Notice that this list of Al's "crimes" does not include murder, rape, attempted rape, kidnapping, treason, bribery, felony theft, or lying under oath. Al is accused of bad behavior to be sure, but nothing serious.
Al apologized. He sincerely apologized. He apologized for things he wasn't sure he even did. That is the mark of a man, a man trying to do the right thing.
So let the punishment fit the crime. And that would be probation. A letter of admonishment in your file. Not the loss of your livelihood. Not the loss of your job.
There is NO REASON why Franken should resign. At most, the Senate should pass a resolution of disapproval. Why even Democrat senators are calling for Al's head, that is beyond me. Is a misdemeanor now a capital offense?
dchill
(38,502 posts)But due process is really, really a right. A RIGHT.
Due Process is an essential right....
And the foundation of our democracy.
dchill
(38,502 posts)We should honor that fact.
Maraya1969
(22,482 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Franken himself asked for an ethics investigation. Here's what he said: I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
But more than 30 Democrat senators said no. There must not be any investigation! Franken must resign, and he must resign now.
I can understand why a Republican senator would say that. That's politics. But 30+ Democrat senators said it. No to due process. No to an investigation.
Maraya1969
(22,482 posts)and they can chose either "yes" or "no" Either way he win
He is being bullied by those people. Bullying doesn't have an age limit
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)I really can't blame Franken for folding. The pressure on him must have been enormous. I can only imagine the phone calls he must have gotten.
But I sure do blame the Democratic senators who abandoned him. The ones who thought due process shouldn't apply here. The ones who thought this small "scandal" was enough to destroy a man's career and reputation.
If I could offer only one piece of advice to Franken, it would be this: Don't resign! But if you feel you must resign, run for your own vacated seat. Don't let those feckless Democratic senators decide. Let the voters decide.
dchill
(38,502 posts)They already did. I'm sure Minnesotans agree.
The 33 Democrats aren't concerned with destroying a man's career or reputation. They're concerned about their own headline font size.
Maraya1969
(22,482 posts)comments on her Twitter page.
I bet it never occurred to her that, "We The People" would fight back. And to such a great degree.
If anyone wants to comment just go to Titter and Facebook and click on something she wrote. That is where people are complaining.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Due process doesn't apply. The government isn't prosecuting him. He's resigning from his job. I had a coworker once be forced to do the same after being arrested masturbating on the train. The company certainly didn't wait until he was convicted.
califootman
(120 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)The police didn't arrest him for no reason, and your company didn't force him out based on hearsay.
You really nailed that comparison, lol.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Which Franken asked for and instead was railroaded.
rainin
(3,011 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)However, he has other streams of income, according a financial disclosure he filed earlier this year.
The Democratic senator from Minnesota received about $164,000 in pension payments in 2016, apparently from his time in the entertainment industry. He also received a $332,750 advance for his latest book, Giant of the Senate, which came out earlier this year. In 2015, The Huffington Post reported the book deal was worth at least $1 million, which made it to No. 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list.
Franken also could qualify for an annual pension of roughly $24,000 from his time in Congress, according to a calculation from the National Taxpayers Union, which is a Washington D.C.-based conservative-leaning nonprofit.
His estimated net worth as of 2015 was just over $7 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/12/what-resignation-will-cost-al-franken.html
quickesst
(6,280 posts)... faster than a speeding bullet, are in my opinion, a major reason we can't have nice things.................... like a majority.
Maraya1969
(22,482 posts)"The unidentified accuser, who is a former Democratic congressional aide, spoke to Politico and shared how she says she ducked to avoid Franken kissing her as she tried to leave the radio studio.
She said that as she left the room, he allegedly said "It's my right as an entertainer," according to Politico."
Al Franken categorically denies he ever said that statement.
I have read all of them and I smell a bunch of fishes.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862
LisaL
(44,973 posts)And anonymous, so of course we don't know anything about the accuser, yet she is counted as a victim.
mythology
(9,527 posts)It's not exactly uncommon to try to leverage relative power.
Demit
(11,238 posts)That was an odd emphasis. It struck me because 1) it seemed out of place for a victim to editorialize about her own experience and 2) the stories were NOT all similar.
More_Cowbell
(2,191 posts)That's what *I* do, as soon as I find out that I offended someone.
And I think that Al Franken is a decent person, although I don't have any problem believing that, especially in his "comedian" days, he behaved differently than he does today.
And I think that the "decent person" response is endemic to Democrats and not Republicans. Therefore, we suffer.
I'd love to see a full investigation. I'd love to hear Leann Tweeden's response to her friend Tom Arnold's accusations. Other than her, I'm willing to believe most of the accusers. Let's have an investigation!
I think that if we don't investigate these things, then Democrats are going to resign and Republicans (except for people who encouraged their mistresses to have abortions, which seems to be the GOP hard line) will stay.
That doesn't help *anyone.*
spike91nz
(180 posts)Agreed
Raster
(20,998 posts)...There should be a formal Ethics Investigation, where all parties are put under oath. I guarantee Leeann Tweeden IS. A. LIAR. This is a setup and a rat-fucking, courtesy of Roger Stone* and the rethuglican dirty tricks gang.
suegeo
(2,573 posts)and that it was all republican rat fucking. And the fascists are stealing another senate seat, where they will fling down all kinds of shit on people who don't deserve it.
But I get what you're saying. There are laws, some crimes are worse than others, and the punishments for breaking different kinds are laws are different because who would throw someone in jail for years for jay walking? Unless they are out to get slave labor, and I wouldn't put that past some of the republicans and billionaires.
'But fuck it. Al didn't do anything wrong.
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)And give him the 2020 President or VP nomination.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)When Al first ran for office, there were all kinds of negative ads, including a picture of him rolling around on a bed in a diaper. I never found that type of humor funny, but oh well ... it was the type of humor found on SNL at the time. As far as I know, he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?
The picture of him ALMOST cupping Tweeden's breasts is the same sort of thing - and was obviously supposed to be a joke as he was mugging for the camera, and it was not while he was in office.
As for Tina Dupuy, she is washed up and is looking for attention, IMHO. I am furious that Al Franken has been forced out over this shit.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)We shoulda known that this is the kind of politics that the Republicans play now are political long knives. They want to eviscerate our party and they will stop at nothing. We have now had to sacrifice one of our best Democrats in politics over what is obviously a plot to ruin our Party.
We'd better stop being defensive and go on the offense.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)as a possible Presidential candidate and after he single handedly took the Keebler Elf to the woodshed.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Couldn't resist.
he hasn't rolled around in a diaper during his senate term, has he?
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)That diaper photo was faked.
https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2009/05/04/drudge-smears-joker-franken-with-doctored-photo/149789
But the so-called groping photo was real. And as CTyankee said, that was a big problem for Al. I thought he addressed it honestly, and sincerely. Even the woman involved accepted his apology.
http://time.com/5028172/leeann-tweeden-al-franken-apology/
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)A crime has been committed TO Al Franken!
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Which is the thing that I find the most maddening.
He kissed me on the cheek, but I could tell that he secretly WANTED to tongue kiss me while the New England Womens Society watched. Thats not an accusation, thats crazy talk.
Her corroboration was a person at the same event that said I was there and its true. I know because Al Franken looked at my boobs. Thats like an SNL skit. Certainly nothing a reasonable person should take seriously.
Once, when we were total strangers and met for the first time, I could tell that Al Franken WANTED to kiss me. Then he quoted Donald Trumps when youre a star line. Thats not an accusation of wrong doing. Its a claim of psychic powers.
While posing for pictures he put his hand around my waist and gave me what might have been a playful squeeze, but I had body weight/self-esteem issues isnt an allegation of wrongdoing. There is no allegation there. Even if he did exactly what she said, there is no allegation of wrongdoing, legal, moral, any possible way. Thats how I know he sexually assaulted those other anonymous accusers is just kind of insulting after the that.
I feel like Im taking crazy pills.
Demit
(11,238 posts)and offers as proof a photo that shows no such thing.
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)You made many good points there. This situation is maddening indeed.
There is only one legitimate incident in this whole mess, the so-called groping incident. Franken offered a sincere apology for that, and the woman involved accepted his apology.
That should have been the end of it. And it would have been, if Franken's colleagues in the Senate hadn't stabbed him in the back.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)for near unto 2 years now.