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NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:40 PM Dec 2017

Al Franken's Resignation - the Lose/Lose Trap

Regardless of how we handled the accusations against Senator Franken, the Democrats were going to be tarred-and-feathered by the Republicans.

Had we told the GOP to clean up their own house first (i.e. by ridding themselves of Trump and Moore), we would be labelled as hypocrites who refused to take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously when it was one of “ours”.

Had we pressured Franken into resigning (as the party has now done), we would be labelled (as we now have been) as a party that turns on its own without affording him an opportunity to defend himself against allegations that may or may not have any basis in fact.

Either way, we were going to wind up in the same place – a place where we’d be damned if we did, and equally damned if we didn’t. Either way, we were going to be forced to engage in the same battle – defending our position to stand with Senator Franken, or defending our position not to do so.

This is one of the many troubling aspects of the party’s decision to effectively oust Franken – the fact that the outcome of not so doing would be almost the same as if we had.

Surely no one on our side was naïve enough to believe that if we threw Franken on the sacrificial altar, the Republicans would laud us for having done the right thing. Surely no one was short-sighted enough to think that Franken’s resignation would put an end to the matter, and we’d all walk away from the funeral pyre as sadder-but-wiser victors.

But there is one major difference in the outcome as to how things have now played out, which is why I say it would be almost the same had we taken a different stance – and that difference is that although we are now still facing the same battle against the Republicans, we are doing it less one valiant warrior, one less voice that has more than proven its worth, one less man who has never wavered in defending the rights of women and advancing their cause.

Let’s keep in mind that Senator Franken’s lengthy career – as a comedy writer and performer, as well as his political career – has never been blemished by accusations of sexual impropriety until the GOP decided to run a credibly-accused child molester for the senate. Let’s remember that the allegations against Franken have been oh-so-conveniently levelled at a time when the Republicans’ only avenue of defence was to play offence, in hopes that the cries of “both sides do it” would be heard and believed.

Let’s remember that while the allegations against Roy Moore have substance – such as his being barred from a mall for inappropriately approaching teen-aged girls when he was in his thirties – the allegations against Senator Franken are as flimsy as tissue paper, and his accusers have been shown to have political ties that render their accusations suspect, to say the very least.

The Democrats who have called for Franken’s resignation did so without any consideration of his heretofore unsullied reputation, and without any regard for the facts underlying the accusations against him. Instead, they acted just as the Republicans hoped they would – sacrificing a lamb in order to placate rabid wolves that were going to stay hungry one way or the other.

In the end, we have gained nothing, and we have lost much – including the support of many Democrats who are now seeing our party as willing to give up one of our best-and-brightest rather than stand up and fight not only on his behalf, but on our own.

There is no “higher ground” here that has been won; there is no “moral superiority” that has been demonstrated. There are no voters who have been persuaded to support Democrats because they turned on Franken; there are no voters among those who elected a self-admitted “pussy-grabber” that have been persuaded by our party’s position that accusations alone are sufficient evidence to judge, convict, and punish.

What we are left with is the sad truth that some among us are more than willing to respond to Republican commands that we jump not by asking why we should, but by asking how high.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Al Franken's Resignation - the Lose/Lose Trap (Original Post) NanceGreggs Dec 2017 OP
I'm with you on this one, Nance leftofcool Dec 2017 #1
Is self-kneecapping a thing? flamingdem Dec 2017 #2
I would be 2018. LisaL Dec 2017 #7
Oh that's right flamingdem Dec 2017 #10
And whoever wins Lokilooney Dec 2017 #22
I'm with you on this one, too, Nance. So many Democrats coming forward demanding he resign is a BlueCaliDem Dec 2017 #3
Well said! nt c-rational Dec 2017 #4
The Republicans can only get away with what we let them get away with, and so far... Binkie The Clown Dec 2017 #5
Its all about money in politics and whos supplying it rainy Dec 2017 #28
Franken's future depends on AL election outcome. Sneederbunk Dec 2017 #6
What does one have to do with the other? LisaL Dec 2017 #8
Sneeder is guessing but if if Moore is elected and the GOP senate leadership doesn't expel him... stevenleser Dec 2017 #20
And that's part of the problem. NanceGreggs Dec 2017 #12
I don't think this will actually happen because the damage is done. But I think you're right. kcr Dec 2017 #29
Actually, there is a win scenario. McCamy Taylor Dec 2017 #9
Κύριε δείξε έλεος Mme. Defarge Dec 2017 #11
THis is brilliant: Amaryllis Dec 2017 #13
Great post Nance! Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #14
So with you. I hadnt thought of the consequences of not forcing him out, BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #15
Roger Stone's Ratfuck trap n/t horvath Dec 2017 #16
This didn't work against Trump mr_liberal Dec 2017 #17
People vote for candidates who touch their emotions. PatrickforO Dec 2017 #18
Times under Donald Trump need to be handicapped differently Awsi Dooger Dec 2017 #19
One small point spooky3 Dec 2017 #21
The whole MeToo movement hurple Dec 2017 #23
Thanks for a great post. dalton99a Dec 2017 #24
Yes. cwydro Dec 2017 #25
Hmm maybe Egnever Dec 2017 #26
We need to get this in the hands of all 33 senators. rainin Dec 2017 #27
Republicans would have called Democrats hypocrites!? Heaven forfend ProfessorPlum Dec 2017 #30
nailed it, as always. niyad Dec 2017 #31

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
2. Is self-kneecapping a thing?
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:44 PM
Dec 2017

Not only do we lose a seat as you say, we may well lose a senator in 2020.

Critical votes could be lost due to that, including those that impact women.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
7. I would be 2018.
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:53 PM
Dec 2017

Whoever is appointed instead of Franken or somebody else will have to run in 2018. Yes, there is real danger of losing the seat.

Lokilooney

(322 posts)
22. And whoever wins
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:16 AM
Dec 2017

In 2018's special election will have to run again in 2020 as that's when Franken's term was to expire. We will also be getting a new Governor in 18' as Mark Dayton is retiring and with the house firmly (R)...Republicans will have everything to gain and Democrats everything to loose...

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
3. I'm with you on this one, too, Nance. So many Democrats coming forward demanding he resign is a
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:51 PM
Dec 2017

sign of unity amongst elected Democrats--but is that really so? Is that really why they made this ultra-rare appearance?

I don't know.

Why haven't these noble Democrats come out as one against serial rapist/pedophile tRUmp, or Pajama-Farenthold, or Trent "$5-million-if-I-can-put-my-baby-inside-you" Franks? Why haven't these 32-33 Democrats called for a presser and demand that GOP denounce their support for Pedophile-Moore?

This just doesn't smell right to me.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
5. The Republicans can only get away with what we let them get away with, and so far...
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:52 PM
Dec 2017

we seem content to let them get away with anything they want.

rainy

(6,092 posts)
28. Its all about money in politics and whos supplying it
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 06:16 AM
Dec 2017

Why republicans can listen to their base and do and why democrats cant and dont :

Republican base can shout, be racist, anti-science, anti health care, anti decency: it doesn’t harm the bottom line of powerful monied donors, infact it benefits them both to keep the country divided over hate and environmental and other issues.

Democrats on the other hand have to ignor their base because what they, we, want will definitely hurt the donor power structure bottom line like clean air, health care for all, state of the art free education etc:

This is why the narrative always goes against the good efforts of the Democratic Party!

Case in point is the whole Al Franken ordeal: damned if we do damned if we don’t. Notice now all the discussion is about due process for Moore and Trump. That was not the narrative when press et al were destroyed the good name of one of our best!!!

Sneederbunk

(14,291 posts)
6. Franken's future depends on AL election outcome.
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:52 PM
Dec 2017

If Moore wins, Franken is not going anywhere unless and until Moore is expelled. If Moore stays, Franken stays.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
8. What does one have to do with the other?
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:53 PM
Dec 2017

Franken didn't say he will resign only if Moore isn't elected.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
20. Sneeder is guessing but if if Moore is elected and the GOP senate leadership doesn't expel him...
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:58 AM
Dec 2017

... or refuse to seat him, there is going to be pressure to have Franken stay on.

NanceGreggs

(27,815 posts)
12. And that's part of the problem.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:04 AM
Dec 2017

Why should Franken's position be dependent on anything other than his own actions?

It is once again a matter of some Dems saying we'll defend you or oust you depending on how Roy Moore's election goes, rather than on the merits of your own case.

Franken is either guilty of what he has been accused of, or he's not. When Democrats start basing their own positions and actions on what the "other side" does, we are no better than they are.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
29. I don't think this will actually happen because the damage is done. But I think you're right.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 09:06 AM
Dec 2017

I think there is a perception that this should happen. This was so knee-jerk and short-sighted that the Dems really painted themselves into a corner. There will be no payoff with this decision.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
9. Actually, there is a win scenario.
Sun Dec 10, 2017, 11:54 PM
Dec 2017

It's a classic story. One of the Greatest Ever Told if you catch my drift.

Amaryllis

(9,524 posts)
13. THis is brilliant:
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:06 AM
Dec 2017

Let’s keep in mind that Senator Franken’s lengthy career – as a comedy writer and performer, as well as his political career – has never been blemished by accusations of sexual impropriety until the GOP decided to run a credibly-accused child molester for the senate

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
15. So with you. I hadnt thought of the consequences of not forcing him out,
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:33 AM
Dec 2017

except that we would still have his powerful voice that cuts so well through repuke perjuries.

As for the Dems who helped kneecap the great progressive Senator Franken, in spite of the flimsy accusations, suspicious accusers & their rw connections, my trust is broken.

DUE PROCESS, not PurityLynchings.

 

mr_liberal

(1,017 posts)
17. This didn't work against Trump
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:39 AM
Dec 2017

so why keep doing it? People vote on the issues, not on a candidate's personal life. Republicans learned that with Bill Clinton.

Franken was an opportunity to stop the hysteria and be reasonable about what is sexual harassment, be for due process,... and get back to being about the issues.

People like Gillibrand need to be called out, the witch hunting has to stop.

PatrickforO

(14,577 posts)
18. People vote for candidates who touch their emotions.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:52 AM
Dec 2017

By and large, Americans are too intellectually lazy to think much beyond the tips of their noses, which is why we are in the straits we're in.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
19. Times under Donald Trump need to be handicapped differently
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 12:57 AM
Dec 2017

He's guaranteed to create another unnecessary controversy or area of attack within weeks. Therefore there's no need to evaluate the current landscape or variables under the typical measures. This Weinstein stuff has carried abnormal duration by Trump standards. Big deal. By next November and probably by March we'll have 5 or 6 topics that will equal or dwarf sexual harrassment in terms of public preoccupation.

I basically don't pay attention day to day during presidential years because I know that none of it matters. The outcome is decided by foundational aspects from years earlier. The problem with so many politicians is that they do feel a need to pay attention, and react, day to day. Far preferable to yawn and do your job. Unfortunately we've got idiots like Pelosi and Schumer who think the lesson from Dukakis '88 is to run to the microphone and respond/overreact to everything.

spooky3

(34,458 posts)
21. One small point
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:05 AM
Dec 2017

I believe I saw evidence here on DU that Norm Coleman did bring up writings etc from Franken’s past, eg a satirical article in Playboy, during his first campaign.

hurple

(1,306 posts)
23. The whole MeToo movement
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:31 AM
Dec 2017

Has already devolved in pure McCarthy-ism.

All a person has to do is be accused, anonymously, of just thinking impure thoughts and suddenly they find themselves a black-balled pariah without even a chance at a defense.

Pure McCarthy-ism bullshit!

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
26. Hmm maybe
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 02:16 AM
Dec 2017

I get what you are saying and largely agree but..

Been thinking about this all day and I wonder was there not another path? Could they not have distanced themselves from Franken by saying they were looking forward to the ethics committee with I assume a republican chair. Saying we are the responsible party we hold our representatives accountable!

Would that not have attained the same message as the choice they made but with much better outcome? If it came out in committee that he was actually a sexual assaulter they could have washed their hands cleanly of him. If on the other hand he was not then they would not have been backed into a corner they could not get out of.

They still would have held the high ground, and they could have used the ethics investigation to continually beat Roy Moore if he got in and Trump. Even if it was going badly. He will be held responsible blah blah will your people do the same? If you are innocent Trump why will you not do the same...


Yea I don't know something just does not sit right here.



rainin

(3,011 posts)
27. We need to get this in the hands of all 33 senators.
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 03:14 AM
Dec 2017

We need them to know how angry we are. This can be made right.

ProfessorPlum

(11,257 posts)
30. Republicans would have called Democrats hypocrites!? Heaven forfend
Mon Dec 11, 2017, 11:01 AM
Dec 2017

democratic cowardice knows no limit.

good post, by the way. Just disgusted with how my party allows the GOP to dominate the terms of the conversation.

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