its not about right or wrong anymore

[angrychair]

I love Franken, I do. Unfortunately, right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. It’s become a distraction. It is becoming a cudgel to beat Democrats over the head. Every Moore or Trump comment is being met with a Franken still in the Senate reply. That is not acceptable.

If Franken loves this Party and our country, I know he does, than he should resign.

Franken resigning puts Democrats in a far better position ethically compared to republicans.

If an investigation vindicates him all the better but right now, in this environment and with his profile, it’s the best thing he can do for the Party.

[kcr]

1. Ok. So when they use that cudgel on the next Dem. And they will. What then?

Same thing? They have to go too, because oh well. Right and wrong don't matter. Out they go! Then, hey! GOP realize this cudgel really works! On to the next...

See the problem?

[angrychair]

9. Its not a rinse and repeat option

It’s not that simplistic. Your assumption is that a given organization can continually put forth multiple women to falsely accuse a Democrat, one after the other.

Even if that did happen here, the intent was strategic, not scorched earth. Franken is a huge asset for the Democratic Party, he is both intelligent and well spoken. His exit will be a huge lose not easily replaced.
That said there are amazing young people out there that are just as dedicated, just as intelligent and just as well spoken that could fill his shoes.

To your point, it is both impractical and illogical to attempt such a false attack twice, much less three or more times. No secret is that well kept. No conspiracy that well organized.

We can get past this and still be successful. I am also positive that this argument is mute, Franken loves this Party and this country and if you think that he isn’t resigning by the end of the week you may be surprised.

[kcr]

11. Not scorched earth, huh? Merely strategic. So, that's ok with you?

What is your defined number of Dems to lose before it becomes scorched earth, exactly?

[angrychair]

18. Its not practical or realistic

Even in this case, this many people, would be impractical as a conspiracy.
Large conspiracies never last in the light of day.

The only successful conspiracy is a conspiracy of one.

I know that, as a victim of molestation as a child, that it’s these type of attacks on potential victims that factor into a decision to wait 40 years before saying anything.

Not saying these people are telling the truth or not but we should treat their statements with respect until we have reason to know otherwise.

[kcr]

19. Calling for an investigation isn't disrespecting victims.

Nor is it impractical or unrealistic. In fact, this rush to condemn only makes things shadier.

[angrychair]

24. The retort

Is that we, as Democrats, are more that willing to call Moore a pedophile and demand he drop out without a hearing. The difference is splitting hairs.

I just don’t believe it’s going to go away, even with a hearing. It becomes a weaponized issue.

As a victim of molestation I know there are no winners in any of this. Everyone loses.

[Skittles]

2. Trump is still "president", and that pedophile is still in the race

fuck that shit

[angrychair]

10. That is literally their argument

They don’t listen to us because Franken is still in office. T
That is point. Barring any changes, nothing changes that stand-off . We need to change the formula.

Franken resigning changes the dynamic in our favor.

[LenaBaby61]

3. Problem is ...

You having Roy Moore IN the Senate voting AGAINST laws which will protect women and children AGAINST domestic violence/rape?

Yep, we'll feel so good about that alright when Roy Rat Mall Moore is telling women and children to go fuck themselves just like I fucked you dummies. And McConnell calling for Franken to resign IMMEDIATELY is hilarious.

OMFG.

NO MORE MONEY TO DEMS. Not a dime.

[nadine_mn]

4. But it won't stop with Franken

Once they take him down, it will keep going. Why have investigations when a handful of anonymous accusers can bring down every single Democrat in office

[Bettie]

6. And that is the real problem

they accuse anonymously and our elected Dems turn and say "this is a distraction" and pressure the person to leave...rinse, repeat.

And we lose. Every time, because ultimately, we're just whacking ourselves in the head with a hammer over and over while the other guys laugh and decide who the next target will be.

[angrychair]

12. With all due respect

It’s not that simplistic. Your assumption is that a given organization can continually put forth multiple women to falsely accuse a Democrat, one after the other.

Even if that did happen here, the intent was strategic, not scorched earth. Franken is a huge asset for the Democratic Party, he is both intelligent and well spoken. His exit will be a huge lose not easily replaced.
That said there are amazing young people out there that are just as dedicated, just as intelligent and just as well spoken that could fill his shoes.

To your point, it is both impractical and illogical to attempt such a false attack twice, much less three or more times. No secret is that well kept. No conspiracy that well organized.

We can get past this and still be successful. I am also positive that this argument is mute, Franken loves this Party and this country and if you think that he isn’t resigning by the end of the week you may be surprised.

[Kirk Lover]

15. I agree...THIS IS SO VERY FRUSTRATING. I say that when they go low....

we should kick them in the face. Ok Ok I don't say that but I'm starting to. Thank you to whomever I stole that from on twitter.

[DBoon]

8. and Franken wasnt the first

This has been going on since Whitewater

[Kimchijeon]

13. Exactly this! thank you.

[demmiblue]

5. ...

[Kimchijeon]

14. Agreed. FUCK DAT.

[Squinch]

7. It's always about right and wrong. He's asked for a hearing. He should get it.

[angrychair]

16. Nothing stops a hearing

If he is innocent than all the better. If these women are lying and it can be proven than all the better.

That has nothing to do with today. We have a Moore and trump issue and allowing our party to appear to want to have it both ways is not a strategy that is going to work.

We demand that Moore drop out but you are not demanding he get a hearing first. That is all republicans hear and all they have to say. If Franken resigns than there is no counter argument to be had.

[hamsterjill]

17. Respectfully, I disagree.

In my opinion, your post assumes that the other side would also abide by a code of ethics, which it does not, has not, and never will. Republicans are scoundrels and must be dealt with accordingly. We cannot expect that they will play fair because they have proven time and time again that they will not.

They will still skewer Franken regardless of what he does, and they will still use it from now until the cows come home to take the heat off their own situation with Roy Moore.

There is a difference (to me, at least) in sexual harassment and sexual harassment of a minor. While both are reprehensible, the later is more egregious, and in my opinion, THAT is what Dems need to be shouting from the rooftops.

[angrychair]

21. I agree

Though a male myself, I was a victim of child molestation as child, from both a male and a female. This whole situation strikes close to home for me. I also have women that are very dear to me that were victims of rape.

This issue is important as any to me.

I don’t expect republicans to be honorable or ethical, in fact I assume and expect the opposite.
I’m not saying I’m excepting anything different from them, I expect they will double down, as they already have with Moore.

Where it matters is with Democrats as a whole and with independents and the undecided. That is how we win.

[hamsterjill]

23. I wish I could believe this, but I don't.

I see your point, and it's a valid and good point.

But I think Democrats are seen as "weak" when they do stuff like this. I think it is the weakness that is our downfall. We need to be seen as mighty. No matter anyway, any more, as it seems that the decision has been made and Franken will resign.

So when Roy Moore walks into the Senate, I want to see every single Democrat stand up and turn their back to him.

[angrychair]

26. I am the first to agree

On the appearance of weakness.

I have strongly advocated here on DU and IRL that Dems should abstain from any and all meetings and votes with Republicans, especially trump. Fuck them.
I just think we have to be more practical in our approach to issues like this.

[LenaBaby61]

31. That is how we win.

HOW are we going to win though?

The 2016 GE was stolen from Hillary, and we know thuglicans control every apparatus of collecting votes to counting them. They have the majority and will stop at nothing to hold onto their power and make Dems a permanent minority party. Gerrymandering, voter-suppressing, is what they DO best. Examples? The 2016 GE as evidence. I didn't even mention how the ruskies will once AGAIN be meddling in 2018 and 2020. tRump is beholden to putin, his master.

[angstlessk]

20. FUCK that shit...a suggestion DON'T be distracted!

see how easy that is?

[R B Garr]

22. NO, Franken was the distraction from Moore (and Trump) And it worked. nt

[kiranon]

25. Agree. Democrats are being played.

As a former female Army officer, I am part of "me too". But, until and unless the Republicans play by the same rules, Al Franken should stay in the Senate and go before the Ethics Commission. Ole Judge Moore - he said that he didn't do it and the Republicans "believe" him. The "moral high ground" won't get you anywhere in Congress with the Republicans at the helm. They do not recognize any moral high ground unless it is the burial ground for Democrats.

[Vinca]

27. I love your last line, but if an investigation vindicates him it will be too late.

He will have already resigned. His resignation without an investigation is as weak as the Democrats calling for it.

[angrychair]

33. That is actually playing into their hands

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Meaning if you say that Franken should not resign as there has been no ethics investigation than it seems partisan to say that Roy Moore should drop out before any investigation is don on him based on the accusations.

By removing Conyers and Franken from the equation, we remove that line of reasoning.

It may or may not work for republicans but it will for Democrats, Independents and undecideds.

[flamingdem]

28. NO IT IS NOT! ONLY STUPID PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT

including the Democrats apparently.

He could ride this out EASILY because none of the charges amount to squat especially anonymous bs.

[samplegirl]

29. If it put us in a better position

Ethically we should be running the country! This happenened time after time during the bush years!

[diva77]

30. It has been catapulted to major distraction status due to the wingnut media machine

Where are the results of the Ethics Committee investigation? Why has he been asked to resign prior to a full and fair investigation?

[blueinredohio]

32. Ethics do not matter to republicans. We're not getting anywhere being the nice ethical party