Why the Democratic Party has chosen this existential moment

[Mme. Defarge]

in our nation’s history to commit suicide is completely beyond my grasp. That it would abandon the principle of the right to due process, including the right to confront one’s accusers and presumption of innocence until proven guilty in favor of mob rule when our most sacred democratic institutions are under the gravest of threats, fills me with dread and despair.

I weep for us all.

[dalton99a]

1. They are not even giving him an opportunity to clear his name

But all those ANONYMOUS accusations!

[Kimchijeon]

2. Let them know no more donations... maybe that would wake 'em up?

It is beyond disgusting what is happening.

[Alice11111]

29. We really do need to let them know. It is sickening.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

3. Well said. Nm

[Horizens]

4. Well said

I tried to call Senator Frankin to say that vehemently object to his resigning. I got a recording that said the lines are all busy and the mailbox full.

Also called my Senator (Casey) and read the riot act into a recording. I will call the other D Senators who called for his resignation and read them the riot act.

How mad am I. I ran three miles this morning in order to calm down. I have an aortic aneurism and my chest is ponding and blood gushing into my neck. I'm fit to kill.

[Alice11111]

32. I'm the same. I called and wrote all day. Mad. Sad. Defeated

by a RW set up, again.

[brush]

5. K&R. This puts in doubt our once promising chances for 2018.

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

We will be seen as weak and our candidates can now be targeted for hit jobs by anonymous, shadowy figures.

[SergeStorms]

16. Yep....

either we stand and fight, or we forever surrender to the GOP's Ministry of Dirty Tricks. The GOP has been doing this to us since the 1960s, and we've always folded like a 50 cent card table.

I don't understand it, I truly don't.

[Alice11111]

33. We surrendered, again.

[mn9driver]

31. Yes, it does.

Watching the Party eat its own is unlikely to result in the kind of turnout we will need to take back the house in 2018. Plus, Minnesota’s senate seat will very likely go to a Republican in the special election.

[brush]

60. The Dem governor will appoint a new Democrat who will be the incumbent in the next...

election. I don't think he is up for re-election until 2020.

[mn9driver]

61. The interim will serve only until a special election next fall

At which point the seat will more than likely go Republican. It’s hard to get good statewide turnout when you’ve just watched a Damn good Senator that you worked hard for get eaten by his own Party.

[brush]

65. Oh, Ok. Too many Dems stampeding to call for a resignation without an investigation.

[Demsrule86]

80. And...what makes you think the GOP will seat said replacement? They didn't confirm our judge.

They won't do it before the tax vote if at all.

"Both houses of the United States Congress have refused to seat new members based on Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution which states that, "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a ...
People also ask"

[brush]

83. Ya think they'll seat the pedophile but not the Democrat?

We'll see.

[Demsrule86]

84. Yep, I think they will...they will leave it up to the voters...they will say that Moore was elected

but the Dem replacement was 'appointed' and that the voters should decide. For sure they will wait until after tax bill comes back.

[Demsrule86]

87. I would bet that at the very least...they won't seat the replacement until after the tax vote.

Also, Moore was elected (assuming he wins), and there have been court rulings about this that would favor seating Moore, but the rulings do not include protection for appointed Senators or House members. They could leave the seat vacant until 2020. And given their history of partisanship...they very well may do so.

" Both houses of the United States Congress have refused to seat new members based on Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution which states that, "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide." This had been interpreted that members of the House of Representatives and of the Senate could refuse to recognize the election or appointment of a new representative or senator for any reason, often political heterodoxy or criminal record. Powell v. McCormack (1969) limited the powers of the Congress to refuse to seat an elected member to when the individual does not meet the specific constitutional requirements of age, citizenship or residency. From the decision by Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Therefore, we hold that, since Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., was duly elected by the voters of the 18th Congressional District of New York and was not ineligible to serve under any provision of the Constitution, the House was without power to exclude him from its membership."

[still_one]

6. Excellent OP

[hamsterjill]

7. I am a lifelong Democrat.

I am livid!

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Ditto. If Franken goes, so do I.

[Joe941]

25. Takes some time to vent, but...

then return to fight the fight. You can't abandon the cause now.

[questionseverything]

56. it appears to be the democratic senators abandoning the cause

there is not one charge by anyone accusing franken that could be considered criminal ,even if they were true

and I don't believe a word of it

leave it to the dems to grab defeat out of the jaws of victory

if franken is forced out we will never regain power,never

o sure there will be some corporate dems allowed to stay as long as they play their parts correctly but NO ONE that will benefit the 99%

[Demsrule86]

81. And Republicans stay in office? Come on. That is not an option.

[Alice11111]

34. Same. True blue the core.

I feel totally sold out.

[bluestarone]

40. this

[jimlup]

8. Strongly agree

and express my concern

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. Because moral panics are inherently stupid

they latched on to believe all accusers at all times without question and here we are.

I gave up on the Democrats as a national political force two years ago, but to see people I really respected like Senators Warren and Harris offer themselves as useful idiots is still discouraging.

[SergeStorms]

63. "And my buddies didn't die face-down in the muck.......

just to be a bunch of whining surrender monkeys".

I think that's about what Walter would say..........oh, and "shut the fuck up, Donnie, you're out of your element here."

I think I could recite most of that movie by memory by now, I've seen it so many times. 'Gotta love the Coen brothers.

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. This is what I find galling.

I just read the latest article and the woman felt groped and sexually assaulted because he squeezed her waist during a photo? What the hell?!

They need to be establishing precedent of actually convening the Ethics Committee and conducting principled investigations rather than calling for the chopping block.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

12. Just now on cnn.com Kamala Harris as called on Franken to

...resign. Is there additional incriminating behavior that hasn't surfaced regarding Franken? Because, if I were innocent, they would have to physically drag me out.. and I'd say to all the naysayers "hell no, I'm not quitting!" Then go about my business.

Frankem needs to stop apologizing, if he's asked, he only has to say 1) No comment 2) 'm not quitting! And, if repubs bait him, his response should be: what about the 16 or 20 women accusing pResident trumpf? He (as well as other dems ) need to to put the lens back on trumpf and the republikkklans...Moore; tax cuts for rich, etcetera,etcetera, etcetera ...

[NewJeffCT]

22. Only Republicans do that

Democrats typically wilt under any type of pressure.

[Alice11111]

39. Seems to be so. Franken was different. The DNC &

Half the Senate jumped on him. Guess they thought since they had not had much success taking out the RW,
who fight to the death usually, they would just be heroines or heros, the DNC & take out a good Dem when the RW set him up.

[NewJeffCT]

41. when ACORN was falsely accused by James O'Keefe

The Senate and the House fell all over themselves trying to defund ACORN without a hearing or anything. The senate voted like 89-6 to defund them. So, almost every Democrat joined with Republicans.

This happened in 2009 - Democratic fortunes at a state, local and national level have tanked since ACORN left

[Alice11111]

49. There are some strong fighters, Hillary, Franken, Cummings,

Waters.... There are too many invertebrates for me. What kind of idiots would take out our best Senator to play right into the hands of a RW setup?

I'm done. I've wasted my life for two years fighting for this.

[RandiFan1290]

51. Also Shirley Sherrod in 2010

Dems immediately caved into Breitbart.

[ancianita]

13. Channel that feeling into anger. Anger is a gift that defends all that is true, beautiful and moral.

Don't cave. Don't let the opposition know how you feel.

Our discouragement is exactly what our opponents want.

Democracy has to be fought for. It can't defend itself without our fighting spirit.

[Alice11111]

42. I've been doing that for two years, only to see

The Dems shoot their best. Geez, maybe they will get Bannon's approval now.

[ancianita]

43. Not to fight Bannon is pretty much the same thing.

[Alice11111]

66. We just handed him Franken's head on a silver platter.

I don't intend to support people who help Bannon.

I appreciate your optimism or innocence, but we fucked ourselves over for the RW. Done with that.

[vi5]

58. I've been doing it for 35 years.....

......I've been biting my tongue and holding my nose for song all I can taste is blood.

[Alice11111]

64. I got it. Since college for me. Young Dems. Worked for

Ann Richards when she took Sarah Weddington's place.

More Dems had good strong character then, like Al Franken. We are not the same country, and our party is not the same either. Franken was my hope, after the RW killed off Hillary by manufactured scandal. Now, they did the same to Franken.

[vi5]

71. That's the thing though....

They can manufacture the scandals, but we have to fall for it too and react the way they want us too. And the number of people on "our side" who are doing that today is part of the same play we've tried to run countless times and failed.

And the cynic in me can't help but notice that so many of the people on "our side" calling for Franken to step down are 2020 contenders (Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, etc.) along with Franken.

[Alice11111]

72. I'm with you. Exactly.Given the number of people against him,

basically all but Rob Portman, they could expel him though. Given the lynch mob speed, and the call to do it before there is an investigation, they probably would. It takes 2/3 vote to expel. Yep,many are probably seeking their own interest. He is more competent, and he would be a better candidate than any of those leading the cause.

They are just kicking to the curb the only Senator who can effectively take down Sessions.

[sarge43]

14. Returning for yet another encore

[AlexSFCA]

15. if he resigns

I will resign from following politics altogether. What is the point working on getting someone elected knowing they can easily lose their seat by taking a bait from alt right

[mn9driver]

35. Exactly.

This sets a very dangerous precedent. And it will demoralize the hell out of a lot more people than the DNC seems to realize.

Do they really think this is the way to boost the turnout we need in 2018?

[Alice11111]

44. Me too. He evidently said he will resign tomorrow. The

DNC and the half the Senate jumped on him, rush to judgment without an investigation.

I have worked raising money for Senate elections for a long time, including Franken's main attackers. I'm done.

[mn9driver]

59. Canceled my DSCC pledge today.

All done until I see some common sense.

[Alice11111]

62. Yep. Me too.

[softfls]

17. Who's next

after Franken dems? Who will be the next Roger Stone casualty? Are you going to go after the next like a bunch of chickens too? What will you say when this is all proven to be lies?

[Mme. Defarge]

18. Unless Senator Franken is guilty

of inappropriate and absusive sexual conduct according to the “reasonable person” or higher standard, he has a duty to defend established democratic values and norms.

[Alice11111]

45. Agree, but apparently he is caving. The DNC jumped

on the lynch mob wagon too.

[zentrum]

19. Dems have snatched defeat

...from the jaws of victory many times.

So angry at those who are prematurely attacking Al.

Wish he'd stay and let the process of ethics investigation play out.

I stand 100% behind him.

[Mme. Defarge]

20. Im having a ptsd flashback to

November 2016.

[Amaryllis]

26. And 2000 and 2004.

Scotus chose the pres in 2000 after Al Gore won the popular vote, and Rs stole it in Ohio in 2004.

[zentrum]

46. Yes. It's

…extremely painful. But now, I'm frightened as never before.

[snort]

21. Indivisible

How about "The Indivisible" party? Parliamentarianism anyone? I'm done.

[ffr]

23. It's 2016 all over again. We're so above reproach that we have to be 100% perfect

[crazycatlady]

24. As a Democrat that has been groped before

I wouldn't vote for anyone with Franken's baggage.

I often feel like I'm the only one who on this forum who finds his actions reprehensible. Did I step into a dudebro forum where women are for groping? And I find Roy Moore's worse because his victims were minors

[thegoose]

30. Uh...

Moore has women who accused him of having sex with them when they were minors. Franken's accusers were all standing for photo ops when he "grabbed too much flesh."

There is very definitely a difference.

[crazycatlady]

38. Doesn't make it ok

[Gidney N Cloyd]

47. But it does make it WAY different.

[Nevernose]

50. What are his actions, though?

That’s the problem.

The latest accuser anonymously claims that she and Al Franken were complete strangers to each other, came up to her, did NOT kiss her, and then paraphrased Trump’s “Stars can do whatever they want” line.

Another’s groping story is that Al Franken kissed her on the cheek, but WANTED to mouth kiss her. On stage, on TV, in front of his wife and a thousand people.

There’s a story that just hit at the very reputable The Atlantic titled something like “Al Franken Groped Me Too.” And then you read it and discover that “groping” consisted entirely of him putting his hand around her waist during a photo op.

The first accuser is literally a right wing talk show host who coordinated with Roger Stone and Sean Hannity. She lied about what was in the pictorial “proof.” Her story about being forced to kiss Franken was actually just the script for the show they were in.

And on and on and on...

Conyers? Denied it, but also paid out. Kihuen? There’s actual evidence that his anonymous accuser exist in real life and that she has contemporaneous evidence beyond “I swear! Really!” Drag those guys out kicking and screaming. Those are Democratic politicians who have clearly done what they’re accused of, and the so-called “dudebros” here would get rid of them in a second.

[Demsrule86]

82. As a survivor of sexual assault...

I disagree...and Franken should have had his investigation.

[thegoose]

27. Eating their own

Feels pretty hopeless now.

[PubliusEnigma]

28. Jellyfish been floatin' so long... he ain't got a spine in his jelly back.

[BigDemVoter]

36. While I do share your concern for the atrocities that are occurring in our country,

thanks to Pussy Grabber and Company, I do believe it's hyperbolic to say that the Dems are "committing suicide."

I, too, am quite angry with many of our Democratic leaders, as they have been mum on any demands that Pussy Grabber resign. Nonetheless, any comparison between Democrats and Repigs that concludes there is "no difference" between the two is beyond ridiculous.

[delisen]

37. Dn't know if I would vote for a mob rule senator for president in 2020

[Mme. Defarge]

48. DUE PROCESS OR DIE!

n/t

[Alice11111]

53. Evidently, they have killed him WITHOUT due process.

Another step towards a dictatorship. I read a piece several months ago, think it was on the BBC, by a Russian. He listed things that will happen as a dictatorship evolves. One was, they will take out effective opposition in scandals. They have done that.

[HopeAgain]

76. Does that apply to Roy Moore as well?

This is why I think so many of our Senators made the decision they did...

[hadEnuf]

52. We try and fight the corrupt fascist in the White House tooth and nail, only to get kicked

in the groin by our own party. Again.


People are starting to get fucking sick of it.....

[Alice11111]

54. hadEnuf, me too. Agree with your statement

[agincourt]

55. I think my Canadian friend described it best,

She referred to the Al Franken situation as "Americans fishing for perch", as in going after the small fry.

[ananda]

57. Me too.

It's just heartbreaking to see Dems so craven.

[Alice11111]

67. Craven indeed. They finally did something agressive ...

gave Al Franken's head to Bannon and Trump. Make way for Roy Moore.

[lancelyons]

68. Have you not payed attention to all the other men that have had to step down.

Have you not payed attention to all the other men that have had to step down.

Democrats cant be touting Roy Moore's negative for the Senate and have Franken in on the democrat side. Even though Frankens transgressions seem to pale in comparison.

[LisaL]

70. Touting is all they can do.

[scipan]

73. it's called having a sense of proportion.

The latest Franken accuser says he touched her waist! and squeezed! There have been many who said he brushed their bums or a boob. IF true, this is still not a big deal.

Moore: went out with women as young as 14 and tried to kiss, fondle, have sex with them.

Franken accusers: several are anonymous. Moore accusers: gave their names.

See the difference?

[Demsrule86]

88. And touting Roy Moore's negatives...will accomplish nothing.

Moore will be seated as there is not constitutional way to stop it...but the Senate does not have to seat an appointed Senator...they could leave the Franken seat vacant until after the tax vote or even until 2020.

[Alice11111]

69. BTW, Thank you for the good OP. We all weep.

[McCamy Taylor]

74. It is Kompromat. If we call it what it is--KGB sex smears---it will clear the air.

You know who caused Sessions to commit perjury which made him have to recuse himself which allowed Mueller to be appointed. Putin hates you know who. THis is KGB payback.

[ck4829]

75. If the number of sex offenders in the Senate will remain static, that's an insult to the victims.

Period.

[democratisphere]

77. Me too!

[R B Garr]

78. Its like elections dont matter. Just gossip enough about

someone and you can take their job. If you’ve ever been the victim of gossip, then you know how this operates. This could be anybody, male or female.

[Demsrule86]

79. I don't get it either. The GOP is not going to seat the new senator before the tax vote if at all.

[Meowmee]

85. Its definitely

Suicide of some sort. But they’ll all be fine and have healthcare etc. we are the ones who will suffer. I think they’ve lost they’re minds. I’ve informed my senators they no longer have my support and I believe they’re cowards. I hope he stays. That’s our only hope really at this point. If he goes I won’t be donating anymore.

[Sunsky]

86. I agree

I remember being 9 months pregnant, standing in a line for hours to vote for Al Gore. Why should I vote for a party that gives in so easily? The democrats have no fight in them. They expect us to fight to get them elected and then they cave to pressure like a bunch of cowards. I am tired of it. I will vote for them but that's the extent of my contribution. I will no longer canvas or give my hard earned money to the party. They don't know what they have done. I have spoken to many who feel the same way.
Unfortunately, I am a victim of sexual assault and I have yet to hear anything that warrants Franken's resignation. This is bs.

[Mme. Defarge]

89. Indeed, this trivializes assault and infantilizes women.

[alarimer]

90. I suspect it's because the Republican dirty tricks squad will never let it go.

A stead, drip, drip, drip of bullshit that acts as a distraction from Trump. I don't like it, but I guess they feel like they should clean house. The problem is that their house will NEVER be clean enough. So maybe they think it's the wisest thing to do politically. The problem is, it is not going to bring voters in. Conservatives already hate "liberals" anyway. The smears will continue.

Trump and Moore are beyond reprehensible for many reasons, yet they will likely NEVER be held to account for any of it. It pisses me off so much.

We have no counter for smears.