Remember when Bush Jr. tried to massage Merkel's neck and she jumped?

[question everything]

He was just goofing, as always. But today it could be considered harassment.

[JI7]

1. only if she told him to stop and he kept doing it. he also was not her boss and they were on equal

level of power.

[question everything]

2. OK, agree on the first two. Not sure about the third

I think, or just read someplace, that some men try to do this to female co-workers..

[JI7]

8. it should not be an issue if the person stops after being told to stop

but they really should NOT do it in the first place .

[Skittles]

5. would he do that to a man?

[JI7]

10. Bush would rub and kiss other men's heads

[Skittles]

13. WOULD HE MASSAGE THEIR SHOULDERS

[JI7]

14. i don't know but what he did with merkel was more of him being an idiot

[Skittles]

16. no, actually that was harrassment

I cringed when I saw it because a lot of gals can relate to that unwanted bullshit

[delisen]

27. I would consider that taking liberty unless it

wer a custom in the other man's country-lil crystal globe rubbing when present for an all-male sword dance in Saudi Arabia.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

3. dubya was turned on by bald heads.

[JI7]

12. .

[Cicada]

4. It was also super weird to a German woman

Walmart went broke in Germany because they made greeters look at customers coming in and talk to them. The Germans told them that creeped Germans out but Walmart insisted. All the way to the closing of all their stores.

[question everything]

6. That's funny. Never heard of this. (nt)

[greyl]

18. Many reasons contributed to the failure.

One issue was the chanting. Walmart employees are required to start their shifts by engaging in group chants and stretching exercises, a practice intended to build morale and instill loyalty. Fiendish as it sounds, Walmart employees are required to stand in formation and chant, “WALMART! WALMART! WALMART!” while performing synchronized group calisthenics.

Unfortunately, this form of corporate boosterism didn’t go over particularly well with the Germans. Maybe they found it embarrassing or silly; maybe they found it too regimented. Or maybe they found this oddly aggressive, mindless and exuberant exercise in group-think too reminiscent of other rallies....like one that occurred in Nuremberg several decades earlier.

Another issue was the smiling. Walmart requires its checkout people to flash smiles at customers after bagging their purchases. Plastic bags, plastic junk, plastic smiles. But because the German people don’t usually smile at total strangers, the spectacle of Walmart employees grinning like jackasses not only didn’t impress consumers, it unnerved them.

The third was the “ethics problem.” Back in 1997, Walmart not only required employees to spy on fellow workers (and report any misconduct), but prohibited sexual intimacy among its employees. Apparently, while the folks running the Bentonville, Arkansas-based company had no problem with screwing the environment, they couldn’t abide employees doing it to each other (alas, a German court struck down Walmart’s “ethics code” in 2005).

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-macaray/why-did-walmart-leave-ger_b_940542.html

[DFW]

28. There was a Walmart here for a while, and they never did that.

A colleague in northern Germany has a female employee who is a former gymnast and messed up her body something fierce after demanding more of it than it could give. When she heard that I knew something of back massage (after decades of my wife instructing me where and what), she practically demands a brief session from me when I'm up there for work. If I have a few minutes free, I massage her back right there at her desk, and no one thinks anything of it.

[rusty quoin]

7. She has good instincts.

[question everything]

9. And a Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry

[Angry Dragon]

11. Bush was out of line

[bobbieinok]

15. At the time - and now - I found it highly creepy and inappropriate

A man just doesn't do that to a woman out of the blue! She was head of state of one of our closest allies!!

[Solly Mack]

17. It was rude and would be considered harassment even then. You don't touch women without permission.

As world leaders especially - it looked as if he thought he could touch her regardless of how she felt about it - he took a liberty, both as a man and fellow world leader. He would not have done that to a male world leader but because she is female, he thought he could and it would be accepted.

Even if he thought nothing of it - which is the case of some men who cross the line - it was still taking a liberty. It was still assuming he had the right to touch her no matter what.

If you think in terms of a power hierarchy (so-called "leader of the free world" v. all the rest) - it's a sign of disrespect and could easily be interpreted as harassment of a world leader seen as less simply because said leader is female. It's still a tough row to hoe for women to be taken seriously as leaders.

Now, people can say I'm blowing it of proportion and taking it too seriously - but that is how women (and POC) are all too often dismissed when they point out words/actions that are offensive.

Not all sexual harassment is a man holding power over a woman who works for or with him - it can also be the perceived power of a man over others in any group setting. And how he uses the power he assumes.

[JI7]

19. ok, i can see this point of it

even if it wasn't intentional. it still treats women differently than men and like it's ok to behave in certain ways they wouldn't with men on the same level.

[Solly Mack]

20. Yes, and it does matter. A female word leader could easily be taken less serious once a man assumes

she can be touched in any old way by any old body.

If Bush can take the liberty - then why can't they? - kind of thing.

And how serious can she be if men can grab her that way - kind of thing.

We might like to think we live in a world where such things don't matter or such thinking isn't held by some men, but we don't live in that world.

You know how a man can be friends with their female boss and some behavior is OK when it's not the work environment but said behavior would be crossing a line at work? Same thing here.

And because of the persistent sexism in the world, it matters - it really, really matters.

[Demit]

21. It was overly familiar. And unprofessional.

It was a gesture that says I'm not really taking you seriously.

[pnwmom]

25. Right. Just imagine if he did that with any male world leader and the uproar that would ensue. n/t

[democratisphere]

22. Weird yes, harrassment no.

Some of these allegations are outrageous BS.

[question everything]

29. Read comment 20, above

It summarizes it perfectly. If he can do it, why can't I - Joe Black - in the office?

And perhaps Jane Doe in the office will be too afraid to say NO.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016197590

[The Wielding Truth]

23. Remember when he wanted to sell off our ports and privatize Social Security?

Now his Party is doing their best to continue dismantling our government.

[Arkansas Granny]

24. I considered it to be harassment when it happened. Part of the problem with harassment

is that so many excuse it by calling it goofing around or diminishing it other ways.

[doc03]

26. Trump kissed that Saudi dude on the lips or was that fake? nt

[question everything]

30. It may be common there, I don't know and to try to guess what's on Whiny Donny's mind

is a useless exercise.