Could Russia have changed actual vote tallies?

[Kingofalldems]

I guarantee they would have in concert with Trump.

[brooklynite]

1. Name a losing candidate who believes they lost because of voting machine hacking...

[Ferrets are Cool]

8. Don Siegelman.....you didnt say when.

[gibraltar72]

11. County election

boards did. Many sneaky ways for Republicans to tip the scales.

[delisen]

15. Ossoff in GA - He has made no statement but voters have filed suit.

Ossoff D-6th Atlanta -He hasn't stated himself but voters have filed suit.

GA Diebold voting machines, no paper trail, machines hackable and Republican Secy State office just destroyed data as soon as suit was filed. Republican Attorney General Office withdrew from defending Secy State as soon as it was reported data drives were wiped clean. Don't want to be tarnished.

Wrinkes: Ossoff a liberal, was in a runoff with Karen Handel, a former Republican Secy State, for Tom Price's seat (Price is the disgraced cabinet member who has already been bounced out of Trump's cabinet over his spending mania).

Georgia has a fast developing film industry and fears bad publicity about voting that might drive away


Right now there is no guarantee that your vote will be counted in Georgia

[diva77]

20. +1000 This!

[uponit7771]

2. Possible but VERY improbable, more likely purge voter roles in democratic districts and send enough

... people home not voting or only voting provisionally.

[rzemanfl]

3. Could, yes, did, I don't know. I think their targeted social media campaign

may have gotten enough electoral votes for the orange one. When vote tallies are changed, the universe of folks who might notice is expanded beyond trusted dupes.

[bearsfootball516]

4. I think the FBI concluded that no votes were changed.

[DURHAM D]

5. They never actually checked for votes changes. PERIOD NT

[LiberalFighter]

6. They would have to know where to change the votes and have to do enough.

So... No! If the elections were run solely by the federal government it might be possible. But still difficult. Instead, each state is in charge of elections held within their state. Even then, we are dealing with many voting locations within each county in a state.

There are likely between 100,000 and 114,000 voting locations in the United States. The only way to manipulate the tallies it would have to be on the ground at each voting location so that the totals match up at each level. The voting location, county election board, and the state election board would all have a record and if it don't match up it would indicate something was wrong.

Any interference with an election result would have to occur before a voter casts their ballot. That could be voter suppression, social media trolls discouraging people from voting or causing disruption, misinformation about when or where to vote, and other tactics.

[Thew]

17. Why hack individual machines?

Why tamper with individual machines when you could tamper where the votes are aggregated? Either precinct or SoS level would work and we know these have been compromised already to alter voter roles.

It's a monumental task to tamper at each location without getting caught, even if targeted to specific voting places. But I'm not at all confident that state election officials are that vigorous or well equipped to prevent changes.

[diva77]

21. +1000 - the vote manipulation can easily be achieved on the "wholesale" level; no need for "retail"

level manipulation if you can insert a virus with 1 memory card; other ways to manipulate as well. Central tabulators are just spread sheets - like the ones you create with excel. How easy is it to change algorithms on an excel sheet?

[Ms. Toad]

33. At the county board of elections, even more than the individual precincts,

Nothing happens, and no one goes near a machine, without the presence of both a Democratic and Republican worker. That's the law, and the two County Boards of election in which I've been an observer (one in a Republican county and one in a Democratic county) were scrupulous about following it.

In addition, each machine has a tally of the votes cast on a paper tape - you can't change the certified total at the tallying location, without changing and replacing each of those tapes to match whatever changes you make at the tallying location. No uncertified, election night, tally makes a whit of difference.

[LiberalFighter]

35. Correct

[LiberalFighter]

34. Because there are watchers to make sure votes from the polling places

match up at the county.

There are also people from each party at least in my state that check out voting machines and go through testing.

[BigmanPigman]

7. If we have back up paper ballots

would that help our future elections by taking a step to secure the results?

[rockfordfile]

22. yes

[mythology]

9. There is zero evidence that any votes were changed

Wisconsin's recount showed no statistical difference between the results that were hand recounted versus machine recounted. This is a silly conspiracy theory with no evidence.

[bearsfootball516]

10. Bingo

[diva77]

19. mountains of info. available to disprove your comment & response #6

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/06/were-2016-vote-counts-in-michigan-and-wisconsin-hacked-we-double-checked/?utm_term=.fee3d2ba6c42

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

Another Example of the 1 Minute E Voting Machine Hack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=5hCyVsUir8k

It is very difficult to prove because the evidence is so difficult to detect; that is why electronic voting was banned in countries such as Germany and Ireland. It is completely nontransparent. The machines do not meet the burden of proof that your vote will be counted as cast.

[Scruffy1]

36. I think it has happened.

Simple logic will tell if anything is possible it will happen, we just don't always know when. Of course we won't know until someone talks. My own analysis shows that it was likely in some states, but I have no evidence.

[ananda]

12. Yes.

It's a done fact.

[TheDebbieDee]

13. The Russians could and they would change the vote tallies

in the states where they able to get election official's passwords to their tabulation systems.

And I don't think it was just the Clinton/Trump election vote totals - I believe the Russians meddled with down ballot races in favor of republicans and I also think they meddled with vote totals in the Dem and republican primary races as well.

The Russians used their showing of control over some of the primary races in favor of Trump to encourage Sen McConnell to drag his feet on the Obama Supreme Court nominee...

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

14. By this, do you mean . . .

. . . the actual Electoral vote tallies? Because, if not, I think your question is rather beside the point.

No one forced the Electors from, say, Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania to vote for Donald Trump. They did so, their votes (and all the others) were duly counted and affirmed pursuant to the provisions of 3 U.S.C. sec. 15. That, constitutionally and legally, is the end of the matter.

[delisen]

16. More to Come

[RhodeIslandOne]

18. A few votes here, a few there

You don't even have to completely flip a county to flip an election.

But if you even suggest it, you are a wingnut.

[diva77]

23. elections officials are trained to intimidate citizens who question election results; same pattern

of yelling and obstructionism is found over and over with these people

[RhodeIslandOne]

25. It's not just election officials

It's something that even some people who are suspicious of so many things won't touch.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Why bother?

Odds are, the various republican-run state governments were doing that on their own. It's not like they haven't done it before.

[Xolodno]

26. Could they have? Absolutely. Did they, highly unlikely. Why?

Obama already warned Putin not to do so. So he knew they had the capability and he would absolutely call it out and expose it...its almost an act of war. But ultimately, Russia didn't have to, plus if it came out they did, it would have backfired severely. However, they did go through the "gray" area. They used data and exploited divides and fueled them. That's really not too different than what some campaigns do here, probably while knuckle dragger Dump doesn't think what he did was illegal.

However, this is the first time it was coordinated by a foreign power with a political party fully complicit. Collusion isn't exactly illegal either...but conspiracy is and no doubt there were quid pro quo's that came with Russia's assistance. But after the shit hits the fan, its a good bet collusion with a foreign government will be added as illegal.

[blimablam]

27. why change vote totals when you can prevent people from voting in the first place?

much much easier that way.

[moondust]

28. Maybe.

If a back door into the tabulators exists for company maintenance or any other purpose then it would follow that anybody could conceivably get in and mess around if they have the proper instructions. Where would they get the proper instructions? I dunno, maybe a company employee or executive who hates DemocRATS and wants a big tax cut.

[MaryMagdaline]

29. Did all those Michigan people leave

President blank? You vote for Congress, not President? Where did all those votes come from in the Florida Panhandle? Weird stuff happened.

[MFM008]

30. If they could

they did.

[Cracklin Charlie]

31. Why would they do all that other stuff...

And leave the vote tallies to chance?

Makes no sense to not hack the actual vote.

My opinion.

[L. Coyote]

32. Absolutely possible. But the Republicans don't need Russia to do that.

Just the Russian internet firewall so they don't get caught.



One of the great things about this point in the investigation, now that collusion is admitted we can get one to the more important questions. What was done?