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PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 12:54 PM Dec 2017

Right now the common wisdom here is that 2018 will be ours. (Long Post)

Don't count on it.

Remember that the common wisdom here was that Hillary Clinton was a shoo-in last November.

There's also a lot of nonsense regarding Pence and Trump leaving office.

Don't count on it.

There's an enormous amount of finger-pointing and blame, and very little sensible ideas and no organization. I've been wondering for a couple of weeks now why we haven't seen massive street demonstrations against this tax bill. Or why the offices of every single Republican Senator and Representative hasn't been filled with constituents protesting their vote.

Now it's too late. If Trump and Pence leave office soon, if a genuinely moderate Republican winds up in the White House (and even if that first happens, the second won't), even if we take back the House and Senate in 2018 and the White House in 2020, it's basically over. The corporations have won and they won't relinquish their power. Ever. The economic slide that started around 1980 is going to continue, only more sharply from now. Our third-world gap between the rich and the poor, with a rapidly diminishing middle, will accelerate.

Think about Spain. In the 16th century it was a genuine world power. That's why most people in South and Central America speak Spanish as their first language. But they had a bit of a setback in 1588. Then they decided not to tax the rich, but the poor instead. For a while they carried on with occupying much of the New World, but after a while they couldn't sustain that any more, and so they drifted into political oblivion. I am sure that Spain today is a wonderful country. I've never had the pleasure of visiting, although I'd love to do so. But Spain is never again going to be a world power.

So it is with us. This country will hang on to the trappings of world power for a few more years, probably even a few more decades. As a larger and larger portion of our budget goes into the military and not into anything that actually helps citizens (social safety net programs, infrastructure projects, education) things will decline to the point where that military can't be sustained. Eventually we'll be a lot like Spain. A pleasant country, nice people, a great place to visit, but irrelevant on the world state.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Right now the common wisdom here is that 2018 will be ours. (Long Post) (Original Post) PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 OP
GOTV. dalton99a Dec 2017 #1
That should be the number one priority going forward. nt. Willie Pep Dec 2017 #4
I'm saying that GOTV won't matter in the long run. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #7
When I called for the ACA, a lot of times the lines were busy. CrispyQ Dec 2017 #2
That's scary in its own way. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #6
2016 was supposes to be ours also. Never underestimate the ********* censored ****************** Fullduplexxx Dec 2017 #3
The Rigged Voting Machines Need to be Addressed dlk Dec 2017 #5
It's not just the machines. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #8
the electoral college is not relevant in 2018 crazycatlady Dec 2017 #13
True. But it is relevant for the election of the President. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #14
The corrupt FBI needs to be addressed. (eom) StevieM Dec 2017 #10
Dire statements like "It's basically over" won't help the situation. There's ZERO chance pnwmom Dec 2017 #9
I'm as angry and as willing to do what I can as anyone here. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2017 #12
Then channel your anger into phone calls and other positive action, pnwmom Dec 2017 #15
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2017 #11
Bleak? Yes, but only 'We the People' can change that. RealityChik Dec 2017 #16

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
7. I'm saying that GOTV won't matter in the long run.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 05:51 PM
Dec 2017

I'm not saying don't bother, but I'm saying the reality is that this country is fading into irrelevance.

CrispyQ

(36,464 posts)
2. When I called for the ACA, a lot of times the lines were busy.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 12:59 PM
Dec 2017

This time, not once & I even got a person for the first time ever at a DC office.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
6. That's scary in its own way.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 05:50 PM
Dec 2017

The lines should have been completely busy. There's a lot of apathy and indifference out there.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
8. It's not just the machines.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 05:53 PM
Dec 2017

It's the Electoral College and the determined (and incredibly successful) efforts on the part of Republicans to disenfranchise as many people as possible.

Getting rid of the EC will involve amending the Constitution, and all of the red states have a very vested in keeping the EC, so that won't happen. And as conservative justices take over the judiciary, we will start losing in our attempts to roll back the disenfranchisement of so many.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
14. True. But it is relevant for the election of the President.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 06:20 PM
Dec 2017

Nonetheless, since Republicans have benefited greatly from it, they won't be willing to get rid of it.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
9. Dire statements like "It's basically over" won't help the situation. There's ZERO chance
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 05:56 PM
Dec 2017

we can win IF WE DON'T TRY.

Your we're-defeated-before-we-start attitude is worth than useless. It ASSISTS the R's.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,857 posts)
12. I'm as angry and as willing to do what I can as anyone here.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 06:08 PM
Dec 2017

But I know enough of history, and I've been paying attention to what's been going on in this country for a very long time now. I think it's naive to believe that all we have to do is win in 2018 and then in 2020 and we can roll back everything Trump and his cronies have done, and everything will be just fine.

Even if we can win in those next two cycles, an enormous amount of damage will have been done that will be almost impossible to undo. If we don't recognize that we'll just be tilting at windmills.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
15. Then channel your anger into phone calls and other positive action,
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 06:26 PM
Dec 2017

not to dire, discouraging posts here.

This thing isn't over yet. The House still has pass the Senate bill, or the bill has to go to a Conference committee for both Houses to vote on it.

Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Original post)

RealityChik

(382 posts)
16. Bleak? Yes, but only 'We the People' can change that.
Sat Dec 2, 2017, 07:07 PM
Dec 2017

If we accept defeat, that's what we'll get.

The only way things will change is if we start OBSESSING over restoring the Voter Rights Act to its fullest extent.
1. Pressure your states to implement the wildly successful Oregon VOTR by Mail program.
2. Pressure your Congressmen about what they are going to do about gerrymandering.
3. Immerse yourself in local legislative politics and candidates.
4. Donate to candidates and campaigns directly, and if you can.
5. Stay away from the Dem Nat'l Committee. It is toxic. It continues to do nothing for candidates running in Red states. They continue to be divisive. They are all still all talk and no action. They continue to ignore progressives. They are still resisting change and repel 'new blood'.
6. Make it a goal to post a DU discussion of some kind EVERY DAY on some aspect of elections. It should include one or more resource links to educate DUers. (And, no complaining...it's not productive.)

From the near non-existent DU discussions about election issues, logistics or processes, I'm assuming most DUers consider the subject as boring and too wonky. But, our future depends on restoring election integrity or all our future races will end like Georgia's 6th District special election. Repubs will continue to keep all the power with their dirty tricks. If we have the will to make elections fair, one baby step at a time, we will win.

All is not lost. We can do this. All it takes is the discipline to make it so. If we don't, then, yes, we're doomed and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

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