"Thanks a ton. MAGA is dead to me."

[mia]

Amazed to find opposition to the tax bill from supporters of the other side.

"Doubling" the Standard Deduction is not "double" because of that.

The GOPe destroyed or capped almost every measly tax deduction we had (mortgage interest, SALT taxes, medical expenses, student loans, employment tuition benefits, etc.) all so the GOPe donors and corporations could make out like bandits. And someone had to "pay for" their huge tax cut in a revenue neutral budget - you and me. They soaked the middle class.

Those deductions (some like SALT have been in the Tax Code since 1913 to prevent double taxation) are not gone - FOREVER! We will never get them back. Taxes, however, can and will go up at the will of our Federal Masters.

The Goldman Sachs snake oil agents who wormed their way into the White House did their job.

The casino will pay out big - until it doesn't.

"We will massively cut taxes for the middle class, the forgotten people, the forgotten men and women of this country, who built our country....Tax relief will be concentrated on the working and middle class taxpayer. They will receive the biggest benefit and it won't even be close."**

Donald Trump, Scranton PA, Oct 2016

**Except for you middle class in NY, NJ, CA, IL, CT, WA, MA, and other states....and except for you middle class who deduct medical expenses, and except for large families who rely on the Personal Exemption, and except for you young people who deduct student loan interest, and except for you middle class who deduct mortgage interest, and except for you men who have to pay alimony, and except for you school teachers who deduct paying for school supplies out of your own pocket, and except for graduate students, and except for college students who get tuition benefits from parental employment, and...

The GOPe could have simply cut taxes for everyone or made the tax cut more fair.

They chose instead to pick "winners" and "losers."

Those of us losing, and who dared object, have been derided and called every name in the book, including "Communists", "A$$holes", "Stupid", etc.

The GOP will probably lose the House in 2018. The campaign commercials about Republicans raising taxes on many families so that corporations could get massive tax cuts will write themselves. And the democrats don't even need to lie this time.

In the hope of finding common ground, I often check on how the opposition is reacting.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3609832/posts

[lindysalsagal]

1. Thanks for the public service, Mia. I'm surprised they're able to follow this

considering they were too stupid to see it coming in 2016...

[Cary]

2. Gee, tbey were conned by a con man.

They were lied to by a pathological liar.

Who would have predicted that?

FREEPERS ARE SO STUPID!

[PatSeg]

18. I agree

But I also saw intelligent people on the left get conned by Russian bots and trolls. Trump's base is obviously much more gullible than most, but I was shocked by the gullibility among a lot of Dems as well. The big difference is we are more likely to learn from our mistakes.

[Cary]

24. How do you know the intelligent people on the left weren't Russian trolls?

Does it matter?

I am disgusted with all of them. Remember, Hillary Clinton won by almost 3 million votes and another 3 million or so were suppressed.

But that gets us nowhere. Bickering gets us nowhere. The "revolution" is yesterday's blather. Condemn "conservatives." We can now rightly call them traitors. Condemn anyone fomenting discord and discontent. I have no more patience for that stupidity. Focus on one thing and one thing only:

VOTE DEMOCRATIC!

[PatSeg]

27. I was talking about people

I know personally. The awakening was rude and painful, but they are recovering. Trump in the White House seems to have a snake pit effect on those who bought into the Russian propaganda and now they are angry and determined.

"Vote Democratic" - I completely agree. I've only voted republican once in my life and that was against Mayor Daly in Chicago over 40 years ago.

[Cary]

37. How can one be intelligent and not know #fakepresident was a bad man?

I take your word for that but anyone who didn't know what #fakepresident is, well, they disgust me. No disrespect to you intended.

[PatSeg]

41. Oh no

They knew how bad Trump was, but like so many people, they really thought Hillary would win. The MSM thought so too, that is why their coverage was so skewed. The excessive coverage of Trump rallies seemed a harmless attempt at increasing ratings and they couldn't get enough of Hillary's emails, in an attempt to not appear biased (yeah right). They didn't think Trump could win, so might as well put on a good show.

[Willie Pep]

3. It doesn't surprise me that much.

There are different types of Republicans just like there are different types of Democrats. Some Republicans are actually fairly moderate or even liberal on economic stuff if you press them and will criticize corporate America just like people on the left. But at the end of the day culture war issues like abortion or gay marriage or racial resentment brings them over to the GOP.

On the other hand there are Wall Street Journal Republicans who probably don't care about social issues or who might even be liberal on those issues but who primarily care about deregulation and tax cuts. The Wall Street Journal Republicans actually run the show but there aren't enough of them for a mass party so the GOP has to appeal to cultural resentment issues to win. That is why there is a big disconnect between the GOP's populist facade and how they actually govern.

[marybourg]

5. Very well summed up.

[brush]

10. Oh please, they all get in line and vote for odious legislation time after time after time...

just look at last night, they all voted to screw us royally with the tax scam — the so-called moderates with a conscience...Collins, Flake, McCain, Murkowski and a couple of others all voted the goddamn party line. That shows you who they are.

The only one with any guts was Corker who voted with every Democrat in the Senate against that monster bill, and he's getting out.

If they were good, moral people they wouldn't be in that shilling-for-the-rich party, period.

[Willie Pep]

12. I am talking about the Republican rank and file not GOP politicians.

Plenty of ordinary Republican voters hold some views on the economy that could be considered "populist." I guarantee that most ordinary Republicans, if you asked them, don't want to see their Medicare or Social Security taken away or turned over to Wall Street. But they still vote GOP for a variety of reasons like cultural or racial resentment or because they think all of their tax dollars are going to lazy welfare bums or whatever.

[brush]

13. Like I said, if they were good, moral people, they wouldn't be in that party.

[EL34x4]

26. When it comes to this tax plan, we have blue state and red state Republicans

Removing the SALT (state and local taxes) deduction, people who live in some blue states (including Trump voters) are likely going to pay higher taxes.

I think this is the biggest takaway that nobody is really talking about. Without this deduction, there may be pressure from residents of these states to their local governments to lower taxes.

[Kentonio]

40. They seem to talking about that on FR quite a bit

Clearly hoping residents in those states blame state governments instead of federal. Let's hope not.

[marybourg]

4. Yes. Except for this:

"And the democrats don't even need to lie this time ", it could have been posted here. Maybe after a while, they'll even discover that the Democrats weren't lying. Exaggerating, to stir the pot a bit, but not lying.

[oasis]

6. MAGgots voted to oppress, now they're part of the mess. nt

[Glorfindel]

7. You're a braver person than I am, mia. I feel about Repukes

(and especially the lunatics at Free Republic) the way Rudyard Kipling felt about the crocodile in "The Jungle Book":

"When you say to Tabaqui 'my brother,'
When ye call the hyena to meat;
Ye may cry the full truce with Jacala,
The belly that runs on four feet."

(Tabaqui is the jackal; Jacala, of course, is the crocodile.)

To me, that sums up the Repukes perfectly. They range from cowardly, pathetic scavengers to brutal, insatiable gluttons who will never be satisfied.

[moriah]

8. Poor/working-class big-family Evangelicals will be fscked.

By removing exemptions for dependents and not increasing the child tax credit enough to make up for it, they are going to see huge tax increases.

Especially if they've done anything to EITC. There's no way the very families ignoring their Bible to vote for these people won't get screwed. But if they're believers in the Prosperity Gospel, they're used to being screwed financially in the name of God.

[dalton99a]

11. Falwell et al. will tell them to eat the Bible

[Willie Pep]

14. They will be told to blame themselves or maybe seek scapegoats like gay people. nt.

[roamer65]

16. They will scapegoat the LGBT community.

[WinkyDink]

19. "God is punishing Americans because... public schools!"

[moriah]

23. Or, say it's worth it to push their agenda.

"Fleece my sheep" seems to be what their preachers remember the Bible saying, so their preachers will say that it's worth it because of the church dark money provisions.

I mean, intellectually I wouldn't be upset if people who could *afford* a ton of kids paid more in taxes. Helping with their future contributions to carbon footprint, etc.

But I also know non-Evangelicals who have more than two kids, and my rationale about taxation has been that the people who can afford it the most should have the most burden.

I feel too sorry for the kids in the families taking the Duggars as role models without TV shows to pay the bills to want their parents taxed more. It's hard enough for the people who believe this BS to not damage their kids psychologically, I'd prefer them to at least have proper nutrition so be able to develop enough brains to overcome their brainwashing once they grow up.

[Ilsa]

29. I know evangelical families with 6-8 kids, all under 18.

All of a sudden they'll be paying taxes when their employers redo their W-2s.

[roamer65]

34. Good.

Having that many kids is stupid in this day and age.

It is the only positive I see in this this shitbag tax bill. It’s going to end the idea of having 6-8 spawn per family.

[Ilsa]

35. I think the senate wanted to double the child tax credit, but

I don't know if that made it into the final bill. They also wanted to increase the age limit to 18. I doubt any of that got settled yesterday in the senate.

[roamer65]

36. If they do, the extra $1000 wont be refundable.

Last version I saw.

[roamer65]

9. I am thanking my lucky stars I dont have children.

The future looks pretty bleak for them right now.

The middle class deplorables who bought into his bullshit, populist lies are now in for a hard core dose of reality.

[notdarkyet]

33. I'm so glad my children are grown. Both girls graduated from college

Years ago. So don't have to worry about that part . But pretty sure their incomes fall in the more taxes bracket.

[hatrack]

15. Getting more oxygen now that your head's partway out of your ass?

Good boy! Cookie for you!

[WinkyDink]

17. Wow. It isn't often one encounters people freely (heh) admitting their utter stupidity.

[workinclasszero]

20. They will just vote for the next racist republican con man that steps up to the plate

You can't expect followers of Alex Jones, Hannity and Ann Coulter to suddenly come to the light.

They 'think' with their tribal/animal brain only.

[Oneironaut]

21. Trump is a used car salesman and the car died 500 ft off the lot.

He’ll look at you smugly and and proclaim, “sorry! No returns!

They were right about him “Making America Great Again.” However, it’s 0.5% of America - the rest of you aren’t wanted. The masters need more of the pie, so please continue to fight over the crumbs we generously throw you.

[tazkcmo]

22. The stupid is strong.

They were too busy calling us snowflakes and drinking our tears to realize they are the dumbest motherfukers on this goddamn planet.

They are so stupid I won't even enjoy their misery as their taxes go up, they lose their Healthcare and can no longer afford their mortgage because my conscience won't allow me to benefit in any way from the personal tragedies of the handicapped.

[Captain Stern]

25. Unusual thread for that forum

Unusual in that they're actually not all in lockstep.

The saddest post (at least for me, but there are many other contenders) from that thread was the one where the guy or gal said:

"I don’t give a rat’s a$$ whether this bill is helpful to me personally or not. It may be a lousy first step, but it IS a first step. We are where we are because a lot of stupid voters have been putting their own selfish interests ahead of the bigger interests of the country as a whole. We have a bucket of cocks in both the House and the Senate, and if we let them be taken over by the RATs one more time, this country will be gone forever. It’s just that effing simple."

What a maroon.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...but not if the step is in the opposite direction. Damn.

He/She said" "a lot of stupid voters have been putting their own selfish interests ahead of the bigger interests of the country as a whole".......that is stunning to me. I don't have the vocabulary to comment on it, or to mock it, with the degree that it should be.

[C Moon]

28. Most probably won't even bother reading what the new tax code does. They'll just celebrate the win.

[Kentonio]

30. Hmm, this post from there is surprisingly self-reflective

McConnell was so eager to jam this garbage bill through that they staffers didn't even have time to go into Microsoft Word and change the verbiage before they sent it to the copiers.

And this legislation will affect our nation for decades to come.

I thought we used to scream bloody murder when the Democrats did this with ObamaCare and other bills - jamming them through without even knowing what was in the final bill?

Oh well, what are standards if they can't be double standards?

I suspect they will soon be hounded out as a communist infiltrator.

[ismnotwasm]

31. They actually expected something different?

Freeper types are often single issue voters—abortion is a big deal to them, and there is anti-abortion rights language in the bill. Some of them are certainly happy about that. They are surprisingly less stupid on environmental problems, state per state, and depending on industry, but HATE regulations—sometimes with merit—but usually not. They want what government does, but they don’t want government intervention. They have compassion for the poor in their churches—sometimes, but think government entitlements are toxic. Our current Republican leadership wants Medicare/Medicaid gutted, as an LONG-standing economic intervention/philosophy and here is another place we’re Freeper types don’t understand what they voted for—because that’s one entitlement they are all about.

They think most gun owners are responsible, law abiding citizens, and that their ~is~no gun problem. They will admit to a mental health problem, but again, do not want to pay social programs as that is “big government” (another topic for single issue voters)



The climate change deniers are either far less intelligent than average or conspiracy theorist crazy. Or “The End is Near” craziness

So, yeah, I understand them to a point, but this position amazes me—how Blind do you have to be to not have see this coming?

[sadiegirl]

32. DAmn it!! Where are Hillary's transcripts?

[janx]

38. I don't think this person knows what is in the proposed bills:

"Doubling" the Standard Deduction is not "double" because of that.

The GOPe destroyed or capped almost every measly tax deduction we had (mortgage interest, SALT taxes, medical expenses, student loans, employment tuition benefits, etc.) all so the GOPe donors and corporations could make out like bandits. And someone had to "pay for" their huge tax cut in a revenue neutral budget - you and me. They soaked the middle class.

Those deductions (some like SALT have been in the Tax Code since 1913 to prevent double taxation) are not gone - FOREVER! We will never get them back. Taxes, however, can and will go up at the will of our Federal Masters

The mortgage interest deduction is still there, just capped at half a million dollars. The state and local taxes are still there but capped at $10,000. I don't know yet about the others, but I think that a portion of major medical expenses can still be deducted.

?? Am I wrong?

[janx]

39. That thread is fascinating.

Thanks for posting it. It seems that it consists--as usual--mostly of people who are trying to figure out what the bill means for their particular circumstances. That is understandable, but the bill isn't finished, and nobody really seems to know what the hell is going on.

[Skittles]

42. I am impressed any of them are smart enough to realize they're being fucked

interesting development