And now for a realistic take on the republican tax-bill.

[DetlefK]

This is from a foreigner's perspective.



The Republican Party has just rammed a massive social-engineering bill masquerading as a tax-bill through the US Senate, based on lies, based on wishful thinking, based on promises they have no intention to keep and based on promises they cannot keep even if they wanted to.

It is a horrible bill, uniformly hated by every single economist outside of the Republican Party and the donor-class.



And the Republicans will not suffer for passing a universally hated bill.

This bill will become law, people will suffer, and the Republicans will get away with it.

Basically no Republican will be voted out of office because of a horrible law that ruins lives. Ever.

And this is not only because they have gerrymandered their districts to be safe.



The Republican Party will face no backlash if this bill becomes law.

The voters will shrug. The voters will say "both sides do it".

And then the voters will go back to voting republican.






Mark my words:

REPUBLICAN VOTERS DO NOT FUCKING CARE AT ALL WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PASSES OR WHETHER IT RUINS THEIR LIVES.

THE ONLY THING REPUBLICAN VOTERS CARE ABOUT IS STICKING IT TO DEMOCRATS.

THERE. WILL. BE. NO. BACKLASH.

EVER.



Before ridiculing my opinion, ponder this: They elected Trump.

[SamKnause]

1. There will be no ridiculing from me.

They have been pushing Supply Side Economics for decades.

It seems no harm has come to them.

They should have been ridiculed, mocked, and scorned every time they

brought up the Reagan tax cuts.

Unfortunately the media allowed the lies to flow.

[pnwmom]

2. The 3rd party proponents will be the ones saying "both parties do it." They helped DT win

and they helped George Bush.

[JHan]

32. I'd like to thank all those third party and non voters for really sticking it to the establishment..

boy did they ever...



And here's some depressing news: There are people on twitter (who ought to know better) who think Democrats could have just changed the quorum. So we have the general stupidity but total ignorance about how votes work right now.

[JHan]

33. Let's thank the 3rd party voters and non voters for really sticking it to the establishment..

boy did they ever

boy did they ever...



And here's some depressing news: There are people on twitter (who ought to know better) who think Democrats could have just changed the quorum. So we have the stupidity but also total ignorance about how votes work right now. Reading some people you'd think there were 51 democrats who voted for this bill.

Now idiots have always existed, but social media has made all more aware of them, and they have followers -_-

[onetexan]

3. did any Dem senators vote for this death bill?

[DetlefK]

9. AFAIK it was party-line, except one Republican voted against it.

[Demsrule86]

13. Not one Democrat voted for it...And I believe this will come back to bite the GOP in the ass.

They will likely lose the house in 18 and the Senate maybe 18 but definitely by 20. I believe we will win the presidency in 20 and we can fix this. I will never give up...Resist. I believe the GOP has committed political suicide with this bill and given us an enormous chance to bury them for years in the end. I will never understand those who in one breath rail against Democrat elected cooperating but then announce there is nothing we can do...there is always something we can do...get active in Democratic groups and be prepared to fight. Our kids are watching us...and we owe it to them to fight this evil. Also, let's make an all in assault on the house...they are very vulnerable and I think can be pressured not to pass the bill ultimately. We have nothing to lose in trying. Let's roll folks.

[onetexan]

20. totally agree

i do think we can take bk house in 2018. we need to fight hard but given what happened w Dems sweep last month we can do this again..and again in 2020.

[Demsrule86]

17. didn't you already ask this on another thread? The answer is no.

[onetexan]

19. no that wasnt me

i just woke up a couple hrs ago

[RhodeIslandOne]

4. Thanks for depressing us more

[Willie Pep]

5. I think you are right about many Republican voters but not all of them.

Some people who are on the fence or who are not deeply committed Republicans might vote for the Democrats over the bill. Swing voters can be brought back using the bill as evidence of how bad the Republicans are. So you can certainly produce a backlash if Democrats do a good job on messaging and getting out the vote.

That being said I agree that many people don't care. Lately I have been coming to grips with the reality that many and perhaps even most people don't care much about politics or have only a minimal interest in current affairs. I think it is dangerous for those of us who are really into politics to assume that everyone is like us. Also many hardcore Republicans don't care about how awful Republican policy is even if it hurts them personally because they have an intense, deep hatred of the Democrats and groups within the Democratic coalition.

[pnwmom]

6. What good is your hopeless, defeatist attitude? Why are you trying to infect Democrats and

progressives with that utter pessimism? What do you hope to accomplish? Is just giving up the answer?

NO. I'M NEVER GIVING UP.

[DetlefK]

10. Would you prefer baseless optimism?

Would you prefer to think that the people who voted for a lying presidential candidate will suddenly mind voting for a lying party?

Would you prefer to think that decades of right-wing media brainwashing just disappear?

Would you prefer to think that decades mainstream-media bothsiderism just disappear?

[pnwmom]

11. Optimistic people get a lot more done than people who are defeated before they even start.

Too much "realism" will just help you dig a deeper hole. Optimism can help propel you forward.

Your attitude, spread here, will just help the R's. They WANT us to give up and disarm. They'd LOVE it if everybody here had your attitude.

[BannonsLiver]

40. The post is intended to demoralize, basically low grade psyops

[Demsrule86]

16. It is not baseless...this bill has to be reconciled with the house bill... it is easier of course to

throw up your hands and give up...but as for me, I will fight this to the end and then continue working on electing Dems in 18...especially governors and US house members...and I have hopes for the Senate. With the census looming, we need to work on legislatures and Governorships especially. You never know what will happen. I do know if we give up the GOP wins it all and I won't go quietly into the night, and you shouldn't either. On last thought...I monitor as much as my stomach can stand (barf site). Free Republic...fascinating to try to figure out out their little minds work (know your enemy) and they don't like the tax cut. No one does.

[Demsrule86]

14. It is no good at all...never give up. While there is breath in my body I will fight this evil.

We still have shot to stop this...it goes back to the house where the cowardly reps are shaking in their jack boots after Virginia...and all out voter assault on the house could stop this. It won't hurt us to try.

[Atticus]

34. Agree. nt

[maryellen99]

7. Republicans/Trump voters think they are getting 4-5k tax refunds this year

[mindem]

8. I agree

This pretty much sums up the reality of the situation.

[mvd]

12. I see some more hope

The Senate and House still have to reconcile the versions. In the meantime, we will find out more about it. Maybe opposition grows even more. True, Repukes never met a tax cut for the rich that they don't like. Disappointed in Collins and Murkowski. This monstrosity will probably pass. But we shouldn't let up before the finish line.

Americans should feel this tax bill because the economy will surely be wrecked. If we have a good economic message, we can take advantage. I can see why you are so down, however. I will never look at Americans the same way after so many voted for the Moron.

[Demsrule86]

15. I think the House is vulnerable and that this bill can still be stopped and we should try.

And once we drive these evil jackbooted thugs out of the offices of power, we can fix what they broke...it is never over.

[BannonsLiver]

38. OP was intended to demoralize.

[samnsara]

18. when we get into power again we will fix this thing...

[Duppers]

21. Americans are idiots.

Realistically when can we Dems regain both houses?



Btw, I wonder how many DUers made calls or wrote emails protesting this bill? Talked to friends or relatives about it? I know some of us did, at least.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I was on Susan Collins case. Calling Poliquin next, but

he's a wall street guy, so loves this bill.

[babylonsister]

29. So many people did act via calls, petitions, e-mails, etc.

They don't care. They passed something and their constituents can eat shit and die. They don't care.

[Duppers]

39. Thanks... And you're right!

Last edited Sat Dec 2, 2017, 10:20 AM - Edit history (1)

How the heck do these rethugs stay in office? My original point: Americans are idiots.


I'm surrounded by retired military voters in a nice little burg in Virginia and most all of my neighbors vote Republican as if it's a duty. I've tried questioning them regarding Trump news only to find not a one of them was informed enough to know what was going on. It was too infuriating to pursue further. However, I guess my approach wasn't subtle enough because some of them are shunning me now.

[babylonsister]

41. They're all over FL, too.

I saw all the dt signs up and down the roads, bumper stickers, etc. I imagine not much has changed. Very disheartening.

[LeftInTX]

22. I agree

Tax breaks are painted as "helping the middle class".

Trying to oppose tax cuts is difficult. It is an optics issue. Even if the middle class doesn't benefit from tax cuts, many people will shrug their shoulders about millionaires getting tax breaks.

The tax cuts won't be perceived as negative until programs are cut or the middle class is forking out more money to pay for millionaire tax cuts.

This will be down the line and not in 2018.

[Amishman]

30. enough crumbs will go to the middle class that many people won't notice who is getting the pie

I'm in PA and will probably save $2k per year with this. Its easy to look solely at my own best interests and excuse this bill. But it's not OK.

This is a really callous bill. The areas where the middle class gets screwed are high income / high tax areas that didn't vote for the pubs. This will was intentionally crafted as a tax hike on Democrats

[n2doc]

23. republicans are banking on the ability of their propagandists to keep people in a fake world

Those folks who only believe Trump's Tweets, Rush, Hannity and Fox 'news'- They are their base and Republicans know they have been trained to ignore their own experience in favor of the fantasy they are sold.

That and their voter suppression and divisive distraction efforts.

[Maggiemayhem]

24. This should not be the morning for pessimism

We need to keep the phone lines busy and the pressure on. We should not go down without a fight,that would be against what we stand for. What you have to realize is that not every Republican voter is a Fox bottom feeder. I think many Republicans will think twice before they touch that screen. We have an opportunity to turn the tide especially with Independents. The hardest thing will be separating religion from the Republican Party. We need to shine a light on their bullshit. Put a spotlight on their transgressions.This is the morning we should be celebrating the Flynn guilty plea. That would not have happened if we all had just said well there is nothing we can do about it. We kept the pressure on and we need to keep it on. Fight the good fight.

[Duppers]

42. Thx for the pep talk. 😀

You're so right about this:
separating religion from the Republican Party.
That's a mainstay and they blindly follow. Any ideas re how we go about doing separating them?

Years ago I was bold enough to actually make calls to a few ministers of southern churchs to point how Democratic policies actually better follow the teachings of Jesus and how Geo. W. lied us into the Iraq war. I thought it was a very clever thing to do but you can guess the reception I got.

I am truly elated by Flynn's flipping but will Trump be impeached and removed from office? Sadly, I agree with former a republican pundit on msnbc: I "highly doubt he will be impeached."



Sorry to be such a downer. I will be happy when even the RW media cannot not ignore the results of the many coming trials.

[CousinIT]

26. When this tax scam starts hurting Americans, Repubs "it's that bad old big government!"

And they'll point at Democrats as the "big government" party.

And Americans will believe it.

And they'll hate Democrats who had NOTHING to do with this shit.

And they continue voting Republican.

Works every time.


If you are:

a worker

elderly (or will ever be elderly)

a homeowner

a woman

make less than $75,000/year

a student

YOU are going to be VERY. BADLY affected by this bill. You will be - after the next year and particularly the next 10 years - paying a LOT more in taxes. ALL the deductions have been TAKEN AWAY. ALL. OF. them.

The SALT deduction had been in our tax code since 1913 -- because it was considered UNFAIR to tax people TWICE. And it is.

[forthemiddle]

28. Will this go into effect

For the taxes that will be due April 15 2018, or April 15 2019?

If it’s 2018, then the repercussions will be felt during the midterms. The middle class won’t vote for anyone who raised their taxes dramatically, because of limiting their deductions.

[democratisphere]

31. The redumbliCONs have seen what drumpf has been able to get away with

and now believe they can do the same. It is interesting that all of the redumbliCONs have now fallen in line; the donor class must have threatened their political lives. I believe when the masses understand what has happened and they become adversely affected by it, redumbliCONs will be voted out of office. Americans already struggle; now they will struggle harder!

[BlueJac]

35. One of the truest statements this year......

the Republicons are truly bad people, They will next attack Social Security and Medicare, by saying we can't afford these entitlements! When they have their own entitlements that we pay for.

[eShirl]

36. What's to stop them from going full Nazi now?

[BannonsLiver]

37. Defeatist bullshit meant to demoralize.

Plenty for you to worry about in Germany. Trash thread. Iggy list.

[hedda_foil]

43. Is there a link to this?

[Martin Eden]

44. Hatred Trumps self interest

The Evangelical gospel of bigotry and fear guides the faithful.