The Bernie or Busters swore there was nothing to fear in a Trump win

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

That was the message of Jimmy Dore, of TYT, one of their most prominent leaders when he debated Sam Seder.

Why, if Trump wins, all the Democrats had to do was stick together.

McConnell wouldnt dare just shove things through with a simple majority, he said.

And he certainly wouldnt risk doing away with the filibuster on SCOTUS, he assured us.

Trump could totally be managed.

What now, genius?

I notice that Seth Rich troofer imbecile isn't tweeting tonight.

And bringing this up isnt rehashing things. These pricks are planning to continue their idiocy, with "Justice Democrats" preparing to throw general election tantrums when their candidates dont get nominated and "team player" Sanders gearing up for another egotrip at age 80 in 2020.

[TeamPooka]

1. Fuck you Susan Sarandon!

[oasis]

2. Susan Simpleton. nt

[JHB]

46. +bazillion

[workinclasszero]

50. Evil bitch

Trump really appreciated the assist in destroying America you POS!

[Blue_true]

63. Evil asshole. Please leave the sexual marker out. Using it is inappropriate. nt

[stonecutter357]

76. wow!

[still_one]

3. My advice is F**k the TYT, Susan Sarandon, Jill Stein, etc. and focus on 2018.

[chwaliszewski]

5. Not this again...

I'm focusing on the upcoming midterm elections. That water under the bridge has already made it to the ocean and is probably evaporating into the clouds by now.

[wasupaloopa]

7. Those who refuse to pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it

There is no water under the bridge. We must not let it happen again so we must keep it in front of our faces.

[HopeAgain]

11. That is true for both sides

Please let's move on.

[wasupaloopa]

19. No there is no such thing as move on. That idea is what happens election

after election.

There is right now and how are we going to deal with it.

[HopeAgain]

20. Make them leave the party altogether?

THAT lights work! Keep alienating!

[wasupaloopa]

23. No we learn from our mistakes. Hopefully

enough do because if they repeat the same behavior they don't help the cause anyway.

If you don't vote in such a way that gets us back in power nothing you say matters because it won't happen. We just get deeper in the right wing shit world

[Demsrule86]

26. They have already left the party...and can never be trusted...hopefully some learned from their

mistakes as some Green voters did in 2000.

[dembotoz]

38. actually bernie supporters make up over half my local county party

you want them to totally go away?

[JHB]

47. Were they Bernie supporters, or "or busters"...

The distinction is significant, since the "or busters" ceased to actually be Bernie supporters once they chose the "bust" part.

[dembotoz]

70. Mostly support but a few bust

[ClarendonDem]

37. Is there any evidence that Bernie supporters actually made a difference in the outcome?

Like, actual evidence? Instead of other issues such as poor decision-making.

[wasupaloopa]

52. Is there evidence they didn't ?

We can only assume what happened.

We could have nice things today if we all pulled together to elect Hillary. Bernie's campaign made it harder to win in my opinion.

[theaocp]

54. That's about as clear as it gets. You can't prove a negative

so keep assuming. It feels from all the posts that we're going back to attacking ourselves again. I guess it's therapeutic, but seems like just more tantrums. Get it all out, I suppose. Then, back to work. I'm heading out to Noel Night to continue gathering signatures to get gerrymandering removal on our next ballot. Try something like that.

[ClarendonDem]

68. There's no evidence that anything more than a handful of Bernie supporters voted for someone

Other than Hillary, so assuming they swayed the election is nothing more than baseless speculation. If I were to rank the reasons I thought HRC lost, defection of Bernie voters wouldn't make the top 5, maybe not top 10.

[MoonRiver]

35. Since Bernie has announced his plans to run in 2020, it is VERY relevant.

[TexasBushwhacker]

36. When did he announce? Please provide a link. N/t

[MoonRiver]

51. I've read it here on DU, multiple times. That's all I know.

Please correct me, if I am wrong. I definitely DO NOT want Bernie, Hillary or Joe to run again. We need fresh, yes, young, charismatic candidates in 2020.

[TexasBushwhacker]

53. He hasn't announced. He just hasn't said he WON'T run

I'm with you about younger candidates running.

[MoonRiver]

58. Ok

[tazkcmo]

81. Media speculation

That is the source of this "Sanders 2020" meme, not Sen Sanders or anyone else.

This is the story: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/27/bernie-sanders-2020-elections-258160


Just a reporter with nothing better to do than stir shit.

[Blue_true]

64. Why fucking not?

We have a significant number of people saying their way or the highway. Personally I say to them, go screw yourself. True Democrats are better off working on non voters than spending tome on clueless assholes.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

73. The problem is, they're focused on '18

The Justice "Democrat" candidate in my state has already said she won't back the Democrat if she doesn't get the nomination over Joe Manchin.

Yeah, Manchin leaves a lot to be desired, but do you know who's running against him?

This guy:

Explain to me how adopting the Jimmy Dore "just let the GOP win" approach in that race benefits anyone.

[Duppers]

6. What this Bernie supporter/Hillary g.e. voter

Says about that....

Yet I take *great offense* to your characterization of Bernie himself here: "Sanders gearing up for another egotrip at age 80 in 2020."


I won't be seeing you. Bye. 🐦

[Highway61]

14. Right there with you

Sick of the bullshit. Always stirring up the pot...ignore.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. It's gettin' SO old.

[Wednesdays]

90. Count me out, too

[moondust]

62. +1

[chwaliszewski]

67. +1

[Chasstev365]

8. FOR CHRIST SAKES: GET OVER IT!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

75. They haven't and they're planning to screw up 2018 and 2020

Justice "Democrats" 2018 and another Sanders run are in the works, and the same Busters who were happy to let Trump win need to be educated before they do it again.

The passage of the GOP tax bill shows a major, major difference between the two parties.
This needs drilled into everyone's head. These are the stakes.

[jalan48]

9. Jill Stein got 1.2 million votes. Over 90 million eligible voters didn't vote.

[samnsara]

10. they will get what they paid for...

[aikoaiko]

12. This is what you're still ruminating about?

[Smitty63nnn]

13. This thread is still up?

Nothing in this post is against the rules?

[Decoy of Fenris]

16. Not for what the alerter picked, no.

The alert selected "No personal attacks." On those grounds, I couldn't vote to hide. If the alerter picked "Don't keep refighting the primaries", or even "Don't bash Democrats" or whatnot, I could have fudged a Hide vote, but since this post isn't attacking any member of the D.U. community, I couldn't vote Hide.

Sorry, mate. For what it's worth, I agree with you.

[Demsrule86]

18. This has nothing to do with primaries...it discusses the General not the primaries.

And what Democrat was bashed?

[Decoy of Fenris]

22. I was answering that poster's question specifically.

If I feel like speaking with you, I'll do so. Until then, have a pleasant day.

[Demsrule86]

24. I don't feel like speaking to you...and what you said originally could be questioned by some.

However, I will simply put you on ignore...I have maybe one other poster on this list...In general I reserve it for those who are rude or unpleasant.

[Skidmore]

21. I see nothing to object to.

Last edited Sat Dec 2, 2017, 09:25 AM - Edit history (1)

The OP is an opinion on attributions for very current events which will be catastrophic for many. Criticism of Sanders and the contributions some of followers is legitimate. He is not a Democrat no matter how hard he spins it and these people are not progressives either. In some ways they mesh well with Trump's followers. What as been wrought this past year is indefensible.

[brer cat]

29. +1

Those who preached that there was no difference between the parties or between Hillary and trump bear much responsibility for the catastrophe unfolding before our eyes. As the republicans destroy all that our Party holds dear and the citizens we strive to protect, criticism of those who abetted this abomination is not only legitimate, it is a necessary part of planning a Democratic bulwark against these forces.

[heaven05]

59. ++++

as a vet on Medicare, Social Security on with serious health problems related to my service in another war, decades ago, based on lies, my death sentence affirmed by those yesterday in our Senate is assured because of those who DID not vote for HRC....YOU ARE SO CORRECT IN YOUR ASSESSMENT.

[greatauntoftriplets]

91. + 1,000,000

[GulfCoast66]

40. They most certainly are progressives

In the historical sense of the word. Read up on William Jennings Bryan, Woodrow Wilson, Huey Long and other progressive of the past. Social Justice had nothing to do with their agenda just as for many Progressives who did not vote for Hillary. It is all about economic justice. You still hear it when they carry one about those poor midwestern blue collar workers. Translation-white guys. And they still call themselves the base of the party when in reality minorities have been our base for 30 years.

The sooner the millions of Liberal Social Democrats who self identify as Progressives realize the poison that word holds for many the better off the Democratic Party will be.

The right wing poisoning of the word ‘liberal’ even worked on Liberals.

[Skidmore]

48. Please tell me what economic justice was served up to

society last night minus the political science class word salad of definitions. Those economic decisions made by a corrupt REPUBLICAN majority is singularly reprehensible. We live in a pluralistic society where justice must be sought for all, not just a narrow sliver of privileged people. The backbone of the political movement forward has been women and people of color, primarily black women. It is not aggrieved white guys who will save this nation that they are busily helping their oppressors destroy. Social justice must be part of the equation. That is on-the-ground reality.

I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you are saying.

[GulfCoast66]

60. I think you misunderstood my meaning

Or perhaps I did a poor job of commutation.

We agree. Too many people who call themselves progressives are neutral or even hostile to social justice. Certainly not all or even a majority. But enough. Which is why I reject the title of progressive.

Minorities are the base and backbone of our party. And are the people as a group who has gained the most from a socially liberal agenda in there mid-20th century.

I just wished we had not become ashamed of calling ourselves liberals. It was a successful strategy of the right.

[standingtall]

55. All of those guys you mentioned

were in times when many minorities and women couldn't vote or had serious restrictions on voting. Today economic and social justice go hand in hand the two cannot be separated in today's reality. What happened last night was both social and economic injustice.

Also anyone who votes for Democrats is the base including white guys. You could cherry pick any demographic group among democratic voters and say that group doesn't constitute a majority of voters by themselves and therefore say they are not the base.

[GulfCoast66]

61. I respectfully will disagree with part of your premise

i agree that to most members of the Democratic Party that social and economic justice are 2 of the legs our party. And almost all members on DU for the past year.

My point remains however that the are self identified progressives who are hostile to social issues. We both are aware of several websites where they can be found.

I guess I am too emotional about my distain for the term progressive. However, I do not know anyone who self identifies as a Social Democrat or a Liberal who dismisses social justice.

Have a nice weekend

[Gothmog]

45. Great post

[Historic NY]

15. They rather gathered for a Kumbya session at a Clinton book signing...

[UCmeNdc]

17. Vote the GOP Bums out! 2018-2020!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. I'm really startin' to think we could have ourselves a wave election sweeping Democrats into office.

[TheDebbieDee]

27. How many of the Bernie or Busters were actually Sen Sanders' supporters...

and how many were just Russian on-line trolls trying to whip up support for Trump?

Both groups were and still are spouting the same talking points (the DNC rigged the primaries for Hillary, Hillary was an unlikeable/unpopular candidate, Bernie would have won the General Election, blah, blah, blah), making the same arguments - who can tell the difference?

[ClarendonDem]

78. HRC

Had record low approval ratings, only trumped by Trump. Doesn’t that make the unpopular candidate charge true? And to avoid anyone accusing me of spreading RW talking ooh to, here’s a WaPo story on that issue - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/31/a-record-number-of-americans-now-dislike-hillary-clinton/

[StevieM]

85. She was also the most popular politician in America just a few years earlier.

Since that time she has not served one more day on the job.

She was unpopular because a corrupt FBI deliberately set out to make her look like a criminal who got away with her crimes.

Had Sanders or O'Malley been the nominee, or especially if they had been the early favorite for years, the FBI would have targeted them too. And HRC was the early favorite for so many years because she had been so popular for so long.

[TheDebbieDee]

87. You're proving my point, AFAIC!

This same argument is made by both Sanders' supporters and Russian [img][/img]

I'm not calling you a Russian troll, but I'm saying that Russian trolls frequently make the same argument...

And as far as the WashingtonPost, it has only become filled with LIBERAL LIES since Trump's Inauguration... ALL the media outlets have been referring to Hillary Clinton as divisive since 1998 - divisive has been the default adjective used to describe Sen/Sec Clinton by the MSM...

As far as your argument that Sec Clinton was unpopular, consider this: Sec Clinton was campaigning against Trump, the Russians, their vote hacker/flippers in some states and their internet trolls and the Bernie Busters and she still got more 3 million more votes than Trump!

[ClarendonDem]

88. Well sure, lots of folks make the argument

But it was true, at least at certain points. I don't understand the relationship between her unpopularity and the Russians though. She was unpopular before the election (I think). Any evidence of vote flipping? I haven't seen it.

[TheDebbieDee]

89. There's no evidence YET!

It would take a MUELLER-like investigation to go into these states and look around. That said, once the vote totals are meddled with electronically, no one can prove what the true vote totals were w/o checking paper ballots, if there were any.

There is a way to access the vote tabulation systems with internet platforms using a modem. And Russian hackers did actively attack and penetrate the computers of elections officials in some - they were specifically looking for their password s to these systems...

Do you think the Russians WOULDN'T use these passwords to the republicans advantage if they had them? If you want proof of that then you should review why Reality Winner was arrested and why she is still being detained...

[Duncan Grant]

28. Up to my ass in republicans at the moment. No time for this.

Hope you’re able to resolve this for yourself. Most of us have moved on or are otherwise engaged with what’s needed today (rather than in some unknowable tomorrow). Cheers!

[chwaliszewski]

69. +1

[marble falls]

30. So what's the constructive purpose of putting this crap up? Its not even provable.

[Willie Pep]

31. I remember that debate between Seder and Dore.

Dore came out looking foolish. I like Bernie and most of his supporters since they did the smart thing and voted for Clinton in the general election. Heck I even voted for Sanders in the primary. But the Bernie or Bust types deserve to be ridiculed. The "both parties are the same" argument needs to die.

[left-of-center2012]

34. More stirring the pot

Geeze.

Can we stop looking backward,
and work on winning in 2018 and 2020?

[dembotoz]

41. everybody needs a scapegoat

[left-of-center2012]

65. I'm still angry ...

That Teddy Roosevelt lost the 1912 election.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

79. This is about 2018 and 2020

They're going to do it again, and they're organizing with Justice "Democrats" to take it to as many congressional races as they can.

Any candidate running under Dore's banner is not on our side.

And if Sanders runs in 2020 and inevitable fails to get the nomination, they will tar whoever the nominee is with "not a true progressive" BS, cherry picking a single issue as they do Kamala Harris, or absurdly claiming Warren backing Clinton in the general was grounds to hate her.

Of course, these single issue purity tests don't apply to Saint Sanders and his abysmal position on guns. Convenient, eh?

[left-of-center2012]

82. Since you can predict the future ...

Can you offer up some winning lottery numbers,
in time for Christmas?

Thank you.

[Greybnk48]

39. That's a lie. n/t

[Lil Missy]

42. Yep, and they will do it yet again in 2020.

[louis c]

43. I couldn't agree more

These so called allies act as though we have a Parliamentary System of Government.

We have a two party, winner take all form of government. If you lose by 1 point (or, in the case in 2000 and 2016, actually win the plurality, but lose on a technicality), you are shut out of government completely, you're fucked.

The other side gets it. How else can you explain that DJ Trump insinuated that Ted Cruz's father was involved in JFK's assignation, and Cruz still campaigned for Trump in the General?

The biggest problem is not just that our side doesn't get it, it's that the other side does.

[dalton99a]

44. Bingo

[workinclasszero]

49. The insane 'left' has it all worked out

Susan Sarandon , Jill Stein and Cenk Uygur retreat to one of their many mansions and count all their lovely millions while the rest of us unwashed peasants go on a cat food diet and move into big cardboard boxes at the local dump.

See? All is well.

[MFM008]

56. Right.

Hope they eat shit and die....

[Mike Nelson]

57. I can't speak for all Bernie voters, but...

...I do have friends who were aware of the damage and still either stayed home or voted for a third party candidate. They thought Bernie was robbed of the Democratic nomination and would have easily been elected President. They think the damage done by Trump is, in part, due to Hillary supporters. Some also feel the country must proceed toward a revolution, including the damage that would bring. This is not my thinking... and, like Trump supporters, there is not much I can say that changes their minds. Most Bernie supporters I know happily switched to Hillary when she won the nomination, however.

[Kentonio]

66. And meanwhile the GOP chuckle to themselves

As we continuously look for people on our own side of the spectrum to fight.

Seriously, are the GOP not a big enough target for us?

[Takket]

71. "A single person I can think of swore there was nothing to fear in a Trump win"

Fixed the misleading title for you.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

74. Guess you never heard of Jimmy Dore, Justice "Democrats" and TYT

This was Dore's precise argument.

And he's hardly a random guy. He appeared at the so-called "People's Summit" where Bernie spoke earlier this year to a room of supporters who booed clips of Hillary CLinton.

[Gothmog]

72. K&R

[OhZone]

77. TYT Went to Hell When -

They stated pushing propaganda rather than calling out propaganda. They detached from looking for truth and reality and became their own version of Fox News for the far left.

[Gothmog]

80. Nader gave us the Iraq war, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act

I shudder to think what Stein and the BOB will give us

[GaryCnf]

83. I suspect

That far more self-proclaimed "liberal" Democrats are essentially unconcerned about working Americans (witness support/praise for trade agreements that have demonstrably lowered wages, hostility toward living wage, lecturing workers in good paying jobs that they need to just get use to the reality of a world where they have to take a step backwards) than there are progressives who are unconcerned about social issue (witness that no high profile progressive has taken a position on any social issue to the right of the "liberal" position and, on issues like criminal justice issues, progressives take a position to the left of "liberals&quot

[GaryCnf]

84. "Liberal" in 2000

Gave us Iraq and Afghanistan and Citizens United by saddling Gore with centrist slaps in the face of important constituencies like the 1996 Crime Bill, NAFTA, and no major civil rights initiative in the prior 8 years and a Republican to be running mate

[betsuni]

86. K&R

[Sherman A1]

92. I see threads like this when I occasionally lurk for odd bits of news and

I am reminded just why I signed off of DU earlier this year.