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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI wonder if more people believe her now. She cried out so long ago, and nothing happened.
Last edited Mon Nov 27, 2017, 08:54 PM - Edit history (7)
The prosecutor announced that he had probable cause to prosecute Allen, but didn't do so because of the "fragility of the victim."
https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/kristof/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/?referer
Whats your favorite Woody Allen movie? Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brothers electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me. He talked to me while he did it, whispering that I was a good girl, that this was our secret, promising that wed go to Paris and Id be a star in his movies. I remember staring at that toy train, focusing on it as it traveled in its circle around the attic. To this day, I find it difficult to look at toy trains.
For as long as I could remember, my father had been doing things to me that I didnt like. I didnt like how often he would take me away from my mom, siblings and friends to be alone with him. I didnt like it when he would stick his thumb in my mouth. I didnt like it when I had to get in bed with him under the sheets when he was in his underwear. I didnt like it when he would place his head in my naked lap and breathe in and breathe out. I would hide under beds or lock myself in the bathroom to avoid these encounters, but he always found me. These things happened so often, so routinely, so skillfully hidden from a mother that would have protected me had she known, that I thought it was normal. I thought this was how fathers doted on their daughters. But what he did to me in the attic felt different. I couldnt keep the secret anymore.
SNIP
_________________________
AND FROM HER BROTHER RONAN:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/my-father-woody-allen-danger-892572
I believe my sister. This was always true as a brother who trusted her, and, even at 5 years old, was troubled by our father's strange behavior around her: climbing into her bed in the middle of the night, forcing her to suck his thumb behavior that had prompted him to enter into therapy focused on his inappropriate conduct with children prior to the allegations.
But more importantly, I've approached the case as an attorney and a reporter, and found her allegations to be credible. The facts are persuasive and well documented. I won't list them again here, but most have been meticulously reported by journalist Maureen Orth in Vanity Fair. The only final legal disposition is a custody ruling that found Woody Allen's behavior "grossly inappropriate" and stressed that "measures must be taken to protect [Dylan]."
SNIP
Here is exactly what charges not being pursued looked like in my sister's case in 1993:The prosecutor met with my mother and sister. Dylan already was deeply traumatized by the assault and the subsequent legal battle that forced her to repeat the story over and over again. (And she did tell her story repeatedly, without inconsistency, despite the emotional toll it took on her.) The longer that battle, the more grotesque the media circus surrounding my family grew. My mother and the prosecutor decided not to subject my sister to more years of mayhem. In a rare step, the prosecutor announced publicly that he had "probable cause" to prosecute Allen, and attributed the decision not to do so to "the fragility of the child victim."
SNIP
From Vanity Fair, 2008
https://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1992/11/farrow199211
Farrowwho, contrary to Allens subsequent assertions that their relationship was nearly over by January, still thought they would be spending the rest of their lives togethermade the discovery of Allens affair with Soon-Yi when she found a stack of Polaroids taken by him of her daughter, her legs spread in full frontal nudity. Woody would later say publicly that the pictures had been taken because Soon-Yi was interested in modeling. Mia found the pictures while she was in Woodys apartment waiting for one of the children to complete a play-therapy session with a psychologist. . . . Each managed to contain both her daughters face and vagina
SNIP
To close the nightmare down, a few days before the Newsweek and Time cover stories came out, Mia told friends, Woody had agreed to drop the custody case and sign the original agreement if Mia would say she was dropping the abuse charges and the family would deal with the issue privately. I think Woodys big thrust is: You poisoned the atmosphere so much that Dylans making this thing up, says Lynn Nesbit. Thus, an eyewitness who has given an affidavit to police says, Mia went to Dylan to see if she was willing to recant. Mia said, Dylan, you know, we all make up stories. Everybody does that. Sometimes we know we made it up. But the little girl would not back down. If he says he didnt, Dylan answered, hes lying.
SNIP
To those on the inside, however, who have watched the departure of Soon-Yi from the family, who have heard Dylan on the videotape and seen her changes of behavior, who have read the lurid headlines about Mia, who know about another approach Woody apparently made within the family, and who wonder if their phones are being tapped, Woody Allen is a chilling figure of power, a potentate of reel life who doesnt seem to have to play by the rules. This man is so exalted in the businessno one has the position he has. Until recently he hasnt had to submit a script or anything, says Leonard Gershe. I think when you get up into that stratosphere you no longer have to pay attention to the law of gravity. Regular morals, conscience, ethicsthats for slobs like you and me. The effect, says Gershe, spills over into real life. Hes treated like a little god, and little gods dont have to do what everybody else does. He just scares me, says a member of the household. I think he scares everyone who knows all the things he has done. And anybody who is close to himthat he has the potential of destroyingI think is scared of him.
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2013/11/mia-farrow-frank-sinatra-ronan-farrow
A babysitter testified that on the day of the alleged attic incident, while Mia was out shopping, she had come upon Allen in the TV room, kneeling, face forward, with his head in Dylans lap.
SNIP
Right after Dylan told Mia her account of what had happened, Mia made a video of her talking about it and took her to a pediatrician. Dylan first told the doctor she had been touched on the shoulder, because she was embarrassed, she explained to me. After that, she stuck to her original story. My mom would tell me it wasnt my fault. She never put me in the place where I felt like I was the victim. Dylan had to be examined multiple times for the criminal investigation, and over and over again for the bruising custody battle. There was a period when I had to go to all these different offices; I had to tell what happened. I felt the more I had to tell it, the less I was believed. I felt they were making me say it because I was lying. (Woody Allens lawyer Elkan Abramowitz says that Allen still denies the allegations of sexual abuse.)
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,677 posts)I'm really glad she was able to write this down and make it public.
It really needed to be said. Many people need to read this; I can only hope they do.
A big, fat K&R.
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Mia Farrow being her mother make Dylan less believable? Why is Alan more believable than Mia?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)I don't think that makes either one more believable. This is not something I have paid a lot of attention to but I do know there was a lot of bad behavior from both sides in that divorce and some of it brings into question what really happened.
Roy Moore was a judge. A judge believing someone means about nothing at this point.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)things that happened to me when I was seven, and I believe she can, too.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)What you can't do is demand others believe the same.
This article has a run down of some of the questionable behavior surrounding those allegations. I could swing either way on this one. Would need to see people tell me to my face to know what to believe and even then it would be tough.
https://www.thenation.com/article/woody-and-mia-modern-family-timeline/
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Was that made up too?
Hekate
(90,768 posts)Some of the responses here are almost worse than the testimony of a wounded child.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)And there's this from her younger brother. (He also links to an investigative report in Vanity Fair that was very thorough.)
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/my-father-woody-allen-danger-892572
I believe my sister. This was always true as a brother who trusted her, and, even at 5 years old, was troubled by our father's strange behavior around her: climbing into her bed in the middle of the night, forcing her to suck his thumb behavior that had prompted him to enter into therapy focused on his inappropriate conduct with children prior to the allegations.
But more importantly, I've approached the case as an attorney and a reporter, and found her allegations to be credible. The facts are persuasive and well documented. I won't list them again here, but most have been meticulously reported by journalist Maureen Orth in Vanity Fair. The only final legal disposition is a custody ruling that found Woody Allen's behavior "grossly inappropriate" and stressed that "measures must be taken to protect [Dylan]."
On May 4, The Hollywood Reporter published a cover interview with Woody Allen, quirky auteur. To me it is a sterling example of how not to talk about sexual assault. Dylan's allegations are never raised in the interview and receive only a parenthetical mention an inaccurate reference to charges being "dropped." THR later issued a correction: "not pursued."
The correction points to what makes Allen, Cosby and other powerful men so difficult to cover. The allegations were never backed by a criminal conviction. This is important. It should always be noted. But it is not an excuse for the press to silence victims, to never interrogate allegations. Indeed, it makes our role more important when the legal system so often fails the vulnerable as they face off against the powerful.
Here is exactly what charges not being pursued looked like in my sister's case in 1993:
SNIP
Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)saying she saw him with his face in Dylan's lap, and that he would have charged him except that the "victim" was too "fragile."
Response to pnwmom (Reply #63)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)I think the prosecutor was right to take her well being into account.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,208 posts)sexually abused their daughter and took nude photographs of her teenage daughter. I would be "dramatic" too.
Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #83)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Oh, yeah, that's some big drama there.
Dory Previn blamed the young woman because she couldn't bring herself to blame her husband. It's not an unknown phenomenon. I've done it myself.
Sinatra as a much older man seduced a girl-- it's not the girl who transgressed all by herself. The grown man who had been married four times might be the one who constantly needed drama.
Just sayin... it takes two to tango, but usually only one gets the calumny. And when that one is younger and female, well, gotta wonder why. Previn and Sinatra (and Roy Moore, etc) were older, powerful men with many connections. Ditto Woody Allen. These men could control the coverage-- and they did.
Response to dawg day (Reply #88)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)has come to us through Woody Allen and his defenders.
"Drama" -- really? How much of the "drama" you're thinking about comes from Woody Allen? Why isn't HE the drama queen?
Response to dawg day (Reply #87)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hekate
(90,768 posts)I remember trauma in detail. An airplane crashed on my elementary school. Want to hear all about it? It happened over 60 years ago.
Hekate
(90,768 posts)If she was raped or digitally penetrated, there would be anal and vaginal tears and scars.
Response to Hekate (Reply #97)
maxsolomon This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orrex
(63,219 posts)in which the mother made unsubstantiated claims that the father molested their daughter, and to bolster her accusation she made up quote from the son regarding events that he did not witness.
The judge believed the mother more or less unquestioningly.
That doesn't mean that Dylan is untruthful, but fabrication of this sort is not unheard of, alas.
wryter2000
(46,076 posts)None of his movies are my favorite. You dont have to look too far to see the misogyny. Hes a vile human being.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)...that if he'd been 6 feet tall, blonde-haired and muscular, he'd have been beaten to a pulp for some of the jokes he told about women...
I think people assumed that because he was short, scrawny and wore glasses that he was making all that stuff up, instead of actually living it.
wryter2000
(46,076 posts)N/t
Doreen
(11,686 posts)Now I know why.
spooky3
(34,463 posts)Thanks to Ronan Farrow for standing with his sister and for the devastating article about Weinstein.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)It's creepy, and you can't really watch it without thinking that he's -- as usual-- echoing his own inner life. Dylan Farrow (and her sister Soon-yi) were dealing with a man who made film about his character having sex with a teen. You don't have to believe them (though you probably ought to)-- he's the one who made Manhattan.
Speaking of Manhattan, where he cast the teenaged (16) Mariel Hemingway:
Mariel Hemingway Says Woody Allen Tried to Seduce Her When She Was a Teenager
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/woody-allen-mariel-hemingway-manhattan
chowder66
(9,074 posts)The videotape and the medical exams werent the only problems Mia faced in bringing abuse charges against her former lover. There were problems with inconsistencies in her daughters off-camera narrative as well. A New York Times article dated March 26, 1993, quotes from Mias own testimony, during which she recalled taking the child to a doctor on the same day as the alleged incident. Farrow recalled, I think (Dylan) said (Allen) touched her, but when asked where, she just looked around and went like this, at which point Mia patted her shoulders. Farrow recalls she took Dylan to another doctor, four days later. On the stand, Allens attorney asked Mia about the second doctors findings: There was no evidence of injury to the anal or vaginal area, is that correct? Farrow answered, Yes.
In the midst of the proceedings, on February 2, 1993, a revealing article appeared in the Los Angeles Times, headlined: Nanny Casts Doubt on Farrow Charges, in which former nanny Monica Thompson (whose salary was paid by Allen, since three of the brood were also his) swore in a deposition to Allens attorneys that she was pressured by Farrow to support the molestation charges, and the pressure led her to resign her position. Thompson had this to say about the videotape: I know that the tape was made over the course of at least two and perhaps three days. I recall Ms. Farrow saying to Dylan at that time, Dylan, what did daddy do and what did he do next? Dylan appeared not to be interested, and Ms. Farrow would stop taping for a while and then continue.
Thompson further revealed a conversation she had with Kristie Groteke, another nanny. She told me that she felt guilty allowing Ms. Farrow to say those things about Mr. Allen. (Groteke) said the day Mr. Allen spent with the kids, she did not have Dylan out of her sight for longer than five minutes. She did not remember Dylan being without her underwear.
On April 20, 1993, a sworn statement was entered into evidence by Dr. John M. Leventhal, who headed the Yale-New Haven Hospital investigative team looking into the abuse charges. An article from the New York Times dated May 4, 1993, includes some interesting excerpts of their findings. As to why the team felt the charges didnt hold water, Leventhal states: We had two hypotheses: one, that these were statements made by an emotionally disturbed child and then became fixed in her mind. And the other hypothesis was that she was coached or influenced by her mother. We did not come to a firm conclusion. We think that it was probably a combination.
snip
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)not "recovered memories."
I can clearly remember things that happened to me when I was 7. I'm sure she can, too. Whatever reasons people had for not choosing to believe her in 1993, she is an adult now who can speak for herself.
When all this first came to light I remember thinking -- well, someday we'll find out the truth, one way or another, from Dylan herself. And I think we have.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)For many years, my family talked about an incident that happened when I was maybe three or four, something funny that happened at a family get-together where I was present.
I'd heard the story many, many times - to the point where I could picture it in my mind, who was there, what was said, et cetera.
It turned out that I wasn't even there - it was a younger cousin who was actually part of the incident, not me. And yet I still "remember" it, clear as day, having been told the story so many times.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)I remember a traumatic event from that age very clearly, and not because other people are telling me. I'm sure she does, too.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... going back to when I was a toddler, still sleeping in a crib. That has nothing to do with it.
If you are repeatedly told a story about something that happened when you were a child, it is easy to "remember it" as though it had actually occurred - despite the fact that it may never have happened.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)or recovered memories.
She's told a consistent story all along.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... being hypnotized, or "recovered memories"?
Her story would "remain consistent" if she'd been coached repeatedly by her mother, and came to believe that things that never happened did indeed happen.
Don't you think it rather curious that no one has ever even hinted that Woody Allen was attracted to female children, or displayed any pedophile tendencies, other than Mia Farrow - who leveled that accusation in the midst of a contentious break-up? Not once, in a very long career, has there ever been so much as a whisper of that type of behaviour.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Woody making her suck HIS thumb.
Do you think Ronan's memories are all due to coaching, too?
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... families tend to support their siblings and the parent they are closest to. Not unusual at all.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)To get back at Allen
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)In her 2015 memoir Out in the Sun, Hemingway wrote that after she turned 18, Allen tried to lure her to Paris: Our relationship was platonic, but I started to see that he had a kind of crush on me, though I dismissed it as the kind of thing that seemed to happen any time middle-aged men got around young women.
Hemingway also wrote that her parents continued encouraging her to travel to Paris with a then-45-year-old Allen, even though she was unaware if shed have her own room on the trip: I didnt know what the arrangement was going to be, that I wasnt sure if I was even going to have my own room. Woody hadnt said that. He hadnt even hinted it. But I wanted them to put their foot down. They didnt. They kept lightly encouraging me.
After Allen traveled to her family home in Idaho to whisk her to Paris, Hemingway asked him: Im not going to get my own room, am I? I cant go to Paris with you. He departed Iowa on his private jet the next morning.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/woody-allens-creepy-obsession-with-adult-teen-romances
And there is his wife/adopted stepdaughter. I am inclined to think he more closely fits Roy Moore's profile.
on edit: she was 18, so legal age?
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)And certainly old enough to say she didn't want to travel with Allen - so why was she hoping her "parents would put their foot down"?
Her whole story is rather, uh, vague.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Google reveals he always appears touchy feelie. Not proof of anything but maybe too much PDA given the allegations of bad behavior.
Slight creep factor as Asian girls don't always like hugs, but again nothing provable.
Still, I would not trust my underage daughters in his company. Would you? So he is convicted in the court of public opinion.
As for Hemingway: At 18, she was still a kid in my eyes. Still young enough to get a pass from me for being slightly vague on sexual matters.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)A father showing affection towards his daughters is somehow suspect.
The only "allegations of bad behaviour" have been from an ex, who was totally humiliated at being dumped for a younger woman. Sadly, Mia didn't have any problem breaking-up the Previn's marriage when she was "the younger woman".
"Slightly vague on sexual matters"? Saying that she thought Allen "had a crush on her" when she was 18 is not exactly evidence of anything remotely close to "sexual matters". Did Hemingway accuse Allen of anything sexual? No, she didn't.
Look, it's simple. The term "once a pedophile, always a pedophile" is all over this thread. And yet there has never been a hint of scandal about Allen being attracted to children. Are we supposed to believe that he's "always been a pedophile" and not a single person has ever so much as hinted at that being the case?
Woody Allen has worked with thousands of people over his long career. Funny that not a single one of them have ever even hinted that he has a predilection for female children. Even at the height of his battle with Farrow over her allegations, not a single person has come forward to say, "Well, now that you mention it, I did notice ..."
I doubt that the "always a pedophile" could have managed to keep his pedophilia a secret for decades, both before he was with Farrow and all the many years after.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)He isn't going to win me back.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)whathehell
(29,071 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)That sounds like a TrumpTweet!
whathehell
(29,071 posts)but nice try, anyway.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)Trump always refers to newspapers/news outlets he doesn't like by saying they have a dwindling audience!
whathehell
(29,071 posts)since in this case it's true.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,208 posts)to travel to Europe with a man in his mid-40s. Why was it Mariel who had to confront Allen about the sleeping arrangements?
BTW, the teen relationship in Manhattan was based on a real relationship that Allen had with a teenager while filming Annie Hall.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Since he married his own young stepdaughter after an affair of apparently several years.
It's not like this guy hasn't ever crossed the jailbait barrier.
So I don't know if that and the film 'Manhattan' constitute a "whisper", but you might perk up your ears.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... who is attracted to younger women. Farrow accused him of sexually molesting a four-year-old child, not a "younger woman".
There is a difference between being attracted to younger women and being sexually attracted to four-year-old girls.
chowder66
(9,074 posts)A child of 7 is impressionable. If say someone in her family fed her information unknowingly or carelessly that can translate into a "real" memory for a child. And considering how volatile the household was with high emotion that can make a dent in the psyche.
The psychologists didn't believe she was molested. I began wondering if someone else had molested her and she transferred it onto Allen but I still doubt that because of the different stories she gave and the therapists assertions.
She believes it happened and I have deep sadness about that for her and for her siblings that believe it. If something more solid were to come of this I would gladly change my mind but I do think this was a horrible fiasco and a deeply confusing time for everyone in that family. It's really a tragedy either way.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)chowder66
(9,074 posts)I read others like that which were similar but not that one... and it does provide food for thought. .
My point was that there is another school of thought on this. Both deserve to be heard but ultimately I don't know how any one can come to a full conclusion considering the aspects of the dissolution of a relationship involving children, affairs, anger, custody, an unusual arrangement, etc. They went to court and he wasn't convicted.
The only conclusion I can come to is that Dylan definitely went through something terrible. She has either been victimized by Allen or maybe misled by Farrow, most likely unintentionally or maybe with her anger so palpable, with some misplaced intent.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)I believe my sister. This was always true as a brother who trusted her, and, even at 5 years old, was troubled by our father's strange behavior around her: climbing into her bed in the middle of the night, forcing her to suck his thumb behavior that had prompted him to enter into therapy focused on his inappropriate conduct with children prior to the allegations.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Allen is easily obsessed as his films indicate. Early in his career it was the blonde non-Jewish girls who were child-like. Louise Lasser, Diane Keaton, Mia. He made jokes about his thing for non-Jewish girls. Mia was in "Rosemary's Baby" directed by Roman Polanski. Her demon baby, special baby, whatever the heck that baby was. He seemed to obsess over Mia for a time like she might be the one he could have a child with. Then a child of hers may not be his at all. And he becomes fixated on at least one if not two adopted children of hers. I am not saying this is anything but speculation, but Allen has a keen sense of irony. And obsessions he seems not to control all that well. Like a Hemingway novel what we see is the tip of the iceberg. What we can't see is the reality.
Accused by one daughter. Married to another. I have not watched a film of his since because I cannot get past his real life patterns.
eleny
(46,166 posts)She never appeared "child-like" to me. Nor did Keaton or Farrow. Just my own opinion on that, of course.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)It has been awhile, so I may be off. The blonde women had slightly girl-next-door qualities in his films, especially Mia. They were not mature femme fatale types. So child-like to me in this case means free-spirited, petite, soft voices, tousled hair or in Keaton's case dress-up, etc.
I think Mia was always seen as a very hippie flower child. Anyway, I am not defending or refuting with any passion as I no longer watch his films where his old men obsess about barely legal young teens.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)Farrow and Allen went through a particularly bitter break-up. Farrow had been humiliated by the fact that Allen was leaving her for a younger woman, her adopted daughter, Soon-yi.
Farrow's outrage at the idea was pretty ironic, given that Farrow herself - after being befriended by Dory Previn, who "treated Mia like a daughter" - embarked on an affair with Dory's husband, Andre Previn, and he divorced Dory in order to marry her. He was 16 years older than Farrow.
Woody Allen is wealthy and well-known - and yet not a single hint of being a pedophile has ever surfaced, and no such accusations have ever been made - EXCEPT for Farrow's accusations.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)with Soon-yi, when she was his step-daughter and a teenager still in boarding school.
I couldn't believe people would defend him even after that, much less the rest.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... didn't have a typical father/daughter relationship. They never even lived in the same house; Mia maintained a separate apartment for her children while she and Allen were involved.
Farrow herself said after-the-fact that she was the one who fostered a closer relationship between them, encouraging Allen to take Soon-yi out to baseball games and other outings.
Farrow started dating Frank Sinatra when she was 19 and he was 48; they married two years later. I don't remember Sinatra having to be defended for "dating a teenager".
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)And he had the same parental relationship with Soon-yi that he had with the other children who were living with Mia -- except for, in Soon-Yi's case - the dollop of nude pictures on the side.
And Sinatra wasn't a father figure to Mia, or in a relationship with Mia's mother. There's no comparison.
Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #30)
Kirk Lover This message was self-deleted by its author.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)He and Mia werent even married.
People cant get the basic facts of this case correct.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)From Vanity Fair, 2008
https://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1992/11/farrow199211
Given the status of the father, the home study was waived, and the court presumably knew nothing about Woodys sessions with Dr. Coates. You have a home visit when youre thinking maybe these people cant afford another child. Here there was no issue of morality or finances, Weltz says. Woody had told me that he used to go over to Mias apartment every day and be there when the children woke up. Hed see them every day in the middle of the day. Hed be there when they went to bed. On the surface it seemed that he was more of a father than a lot of natural fathers I represent. Weltz recalls December 17, the day Woody, Mia, and the children accompanied him to the courtroom (where Woody remembered he had once shot a scene) and the judges chambers, as being probably the happiest day Ive ever spent in court.
Technically, yes, he wasn't Soon Yi's stepfather. He was father to her siblings and the partner to her mother for ten years before he got involved with her -- as a teenager.
whathehell
(29,071 posts)..
in the face of one man:s denial.
Of course Farrow was angry, but I have no reason to believe she'd
seek revenge in such a pernicious way.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... in the middle of a contentious break-up.
I'm not of the the woman is always telling the truth school of thought. Women are just as prone to lie as men, especially when they are hurt and out for revenge.
Allen has had a very lengthy career - and yet no one has ever even hinted at his being a pedophile - ever - other than Farrow.
whathehell
(29,071 posts)The testimony of a only "one" woman and "one" underage female is nothing compared to that of a famous male "with a lengthy career"..I think I know what school you are in.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... is famous, and has deep pockets - which would make him a great target for any "victim", legitimate or not.
And yet there hasn't been a single accusation made against him for molesting a child, other than an ex who was publicly humiliated by being dumped for another woman, and had an axe to grind.
Amazing, eh?
whathehell
(29,071 posts)defend them using the same argument?..
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 28, 2017, 07:32 PM - Edit history (1)
... multiple women came forward.
Where are the multiple children that Allen molested? Where were the parents of these children who were sexually assaulted by Allen?
Not only have there not been any such accusations over these many years, there have not even been rumours about such activity.
It's a matter of the weight of the evidence. Is it more likely that Allen has been molesting children for decades and has managed to completely escape detection, or is it more likely that a distraught Farrow leveled the accusations and coached her child to concur?
Given Allen's fame and high profile, how likely is it that not a single person, other than Farrow, has ever come forward with so much as a "now that I think back on it, I did see things that would lead me to believe he was sexually attracted to children"? Not one person has, and I think we can agree that Allen has had contact with literally thousands of people who would have noticed anything untoward in that regard. And when it comes to pedophilia, even the most closed-mouth people have a tendency to speak up.
It's like any other crime. If someone accused you of being an embezzler, and yet you'd worked for decades without ever being accused of such by anyone else, what is the likelihood that they are telling the truth and you have been getting away with theft without being caught, or even suspected of such behaviour, for an entire lifetime?
The position you are taking here seems to be that one accusation - unproven, and leveled by someone with her own agenda - outweighs a lifetime of never having been so much as suspected of such wrongdoing by a single other person, no less accused by anyone.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)When you have talent, power, & money, the world is yours, no matter what you do.
But I can SORT OF understand when people separate someone's work or art from the person himself, as they do with Picasso. Still, I'm sure most people did not believe his daughter. Her brother said he always did (I read), and of course, now Mia Farrow does (and may always have).
He's a pedophile, for sure. And likely still is. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile?
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... where Allen has been accused of pedophilia.
"Once a pedophile, always a pedophile." And yet amazingly enough, no such accusation has been made about him other than the single allegation made by an extremely distraught ex.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The porn photos he'd been taking of her when she was a child? The things they did together (that they admitted to Mia). The whole sordid story about a child and the man who was her only father figure in the family?
Once a pedophile, always a pedophile, they say. It's not something that's curable.
NanceGreggs
(27,816 posts)... when those photos were taken.
Allen was not "the man who was her only father figure" - she herself has said that. Her father is Andre Previn.
They are still together after twenty years. That sounds like a love match, not a "pedophile" and "child".
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)They had been carrying on for some time, at that point, of course.
Then there's Mariel Hemingway, who has stated that he tried to seduce her when she was underage and in one of his films.
Saviolo
(3,282 posts)Trying to divorce the artist from the art when those artists are revealed as abusers. The big names she taps are Polanski, Cosby, and Allen.
whathehell
(29,071 posts)and I liked him previously, though not with the passion of some others. I always thought he was a bit overrated.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)JDC
(10,130 posts)Saviolo
(3,282 posts)It's a really interesting examination of how we should approach the works of men who have been revealed to have been abusive, and how we abuse women who choose creative endeavours. Some small excerpts:
They did or said something awful, and made something great. The awful thing disrupts the great work; we cant watch or listen to or read the great work without remembering the awful thing. Flooded with knowledge of the makers monstrousness, we turn away, overcome by disgust. Or we dont. We continue watching, separating or trying to separate the artist from the art. Either way: disruption. They are monster geniuses, and I dont know what to do about them.
And how does our answer change from situation to situation? Certain pieces of art seem to have been rendered unconsumable by their makers transgressionshow can one watch The Cosby Show after the rape allegations against Bill Cosby? I mean, obviously its technically doable, but are we even watching the show? Or are we taking in the spectacle of our own lost innocence?
And is it simply a matter of pragmatics? Do we withhold our support if the person is alive and therefore might benefit financially from our consumption of their work? Do we vote with our wallets? If so, is it okay to stream, say, a Roman Polanski movie for free? Can we, um, watch it at a friends house?
But hold up for a minute: Who is this we thats always turning up in critical writing anyway? We is an escape hatch. We is cheap. We is a way of simultaneously sloughing off personal responsibility and taking on the mantle of easy authority. Its the voice of the middle-brow male critic, the one who truly believes he knows how everyone else should think. We is corrupt. We is make-believe. The real question is this: can I love the art but hate the artist? Can you? When I say we, I mean I. I mean you.
I know Polanski is worse, whatever that means, and Cosby is more current. But for me the ur-monster is Woody Allen.
The men want to know why Woody Allen makes us so mad. Woody Allen slept with Soon-Yi Previn, the child of his life partner Mia Farrow. Soon-Yi was a teenager in his care the first time they slept together, and he the most famous film director in the world.
It goes into a great deal more depth, but I don't want to copy the whole thing here. I highly recommend this, it's an excellent read.
dhol82
(9,353 posts)And have two children.
Dont recall having heard any allegations against him in that time period.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)the dams broke?
whathehell
(29,071 posts)'cause we definitely have a Winner.
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Woody Allen voluntarily agreed to stay away from Dylan and voluntarily underwent therapy because of his problem with "boundaries" with his daughter. Within days of signing a no contact agreement he went to a lawyer and sought full custody.
The issues of sexual assault came up after years of weird behavior with the child that adults found to be inappropriate. It is not a stretch to believe he crossed the line into sexual assault.
Mia was found at fault by the judge for not heeding the signs. If anything her hippy drippyness tended to excuse rather than accuse.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)And Mia lied during the fight in court, claiming Ronan as Allen's son for child support (though she now giggles that he's likely Frank's, and claims she and Sinatra "never really split up," completely insulting Barbara Sinatra, Frank's wife at the time, in the process) so not a pillar of honesty there.
The Allen situation is a custody mess that leaves you unsure who to believe or what Dylan remembers vs. was told happened.
Lumping it in with cases with dozens of accusers like Cosby, Weinstein and Trump is a stretch.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 28, 2017, 12:09 AM - Edit history (1)
exposure to what was going on than the brother closest to her in age.
The younger brother has pointed out that his father was having sex with his sister, while the children were still living in Mia's home. (And now Ronan's father is married to Ronan's sister.)
eleny
(46,166 posts)...we might never be able to watch many films, listen to much music or enjoy art, sports, literature or even use recipes from the frugal gormet. Are we supposed to stop watching Hitchcock films and avoid movies with Errol Flynn or Joan Crawford? Thank goodness I was never a Fatty Arbuckle fan.
Have we forgiven Ted Kennedy for the tragedy at Chappaquiddick or do we just look the other way?
Over the course of my long life I've been disappointed by too many in the arts, lit, sports, politics. They don't deserve excuses. But at this point I let their works stand or fall on their own.
To answer your original question - Bananas. The wheel barrels of cole slaw get me every time.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)new here? Because if there is I am missing it.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)are people any more likely now to take the word of a woman than the powerful man she accused?
ismnotwasm
(41,998 posts)Woody Allen is creep as fuck, and I dont have the angst of liking his movies while dispising the person.
This thread is disturbing BTW.
vi5
(13,305 posts)It appears that is the standard that we have to use in order to determine whether we believe an accuser, so I'll have to reserve my judgment until I know the political party of the accuser and the accused.