Moore vs. Jones - it may come down to Abortion.

[qwlauren35]

You can say all kinds of things about Moore's interaction with 14 year old girls, but at the end of the day, he's still a Republican. He's probably "anti-gay", he's probably "pro-Life". His platform is probably all of the "family values" things that Republican Alabama folks believe in.

Weigh that against a civil rights activist, pro-"abortion", pro-LGBT Democrat, and it's a tough choice. Do they throw away the need to keep a Republican Pro-life senator, just because of something he did 10-20 years ago?

That's what Doug Jones is up against.

And if you think that's unreasonable, take a look at the Al Franken posts where some DUers said that it's more important to keep a Democratic Senator than it is to look at any improprieties that he has committed. It's one thing to suggest that Al Franken is not on par with Moore in any way. I'll go with that. But to say it's more important to keep him, whatever he may have done, is the same argument that will be pitched to Alabamans. The same argument that Trump has put forth. And what is it about Republicans that is sooooooooo special to the people of Alabama? To the WOMEN of Alabama? It's that Republicans are pro-life.

DUers have an opportunity to get off the pulpit and stump for Jones. Write postcards. Send money. But to sit up and make disparaging remarks about people who are voting based on what they believe in... that's not the Obama way. If we cannot find common ground, we cannot win.

[LisaL]

1. There is no probably needed.

"A strong family based on marriage between one man and one woman is and should remain our only guide and model. I oppose abortion, same-sex marriage, civil unions, and all other threats to the traditional family order."

https://www.roymoore.org/Positions/

[Skittles]

11. is fucking 14 year old girls the traditional family order?

[Aristus]

16. You can say that again, Skittles...

[lastlib]

29. In "Grand-Old-PervWorld", it is....

"Family Values," you know........ . . .

[0rganism]

39. have you read the Bible?

yay traditions!

[treestar]

13. And none of those things threaten it

You can still have your traditional family - right wingers show us they want to force everyone else to do the same. Otherwise how could they be "threatened?"

[Hortensis]

32. Agree. When excuse is needed to vote against Democrats,

abortion is the ultimate excuse that virtuously trumps all other issues. Including for the huge numbers who've never spent 5 seconds wondering why aborting innocent babies of rape and incest, including conceived in marriage between first cousins, should be legal.

[Ms. Toad]

2. This.

And if you think that's unreasonable, take a look at the Al Franken posts where some DUers said that it's more important to keep a Democratic Senator than it is to look at any improprieties that he has committed. It's one thing to suggest that Al Franken is not on par with Moore in any way. I'll go with that. But to say it's more important to keep him, whatever he may have done, is the same argument that will be pitched to Alabamans.

I'm appalled at the number of people who don't seem to recognize that, perhaps, 3/4 of those expressing opinions on DU about Franken are doing the exact same thing they are condemning Alabamans for (saying it doesn't matter what he did years ago OR engaging in character assassination of the accusers).

[LisaL]

4. Is it a good thing or is it a bad thing?

I can't tell from the OP.
As it seems to support republicans for doing it but blames democrats at the same time.

[qwlauren35]

8. No, I don't support Republicans.

But I think I understand them.

My feelings about abortion are very, very strong. I'm not sure if I could vote for a pro-life candidate. There would have to be extreme circumstances. Moore grabbed girls and creeped them out. But he did not rape them. If a Democrat did these things but was pro-choice, and the Republican candidate was pro-life, but otherwise moderate, I'd be torn.

I think it's very important to understand Alabamans, their values, and their needs. Especially if we want Jones to win. I want Jones to win. So it's very important to talk up the aspects of his life that speak to the people of Alabama. How many years has he been married? How many children does he have? How many generations has his family lived in Alabama? What church does he go to?

I think if I write postcards, I'll talk about those things. They matter in the South.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Note: I went to Wikipedia:

Jones and his wife, Louise New Jones, were married on December 12, 1992.[39] The Joneses have three children: Courtney, Carson, and Christopher.[40] He has been a member of the Canterbury United Methodist Church in Mountain Brook for more than 33 years. [41]

[mrsv]

27. If Moore...

Had a 14yr old girl strip to her panties and fondled her through her panties...and if he had her fondle him...I guarantee you there are victims out there that he raped.
Someone is just not telling. #Metoo.

[treestar]

14. I disagree

There are big holes in the accuser's story. Fewer holes in the Moore story. It is not the same. We can evaluate each case on its own merits.

And don't forget, right-wingers are more likely to be guilty, because of the views they have on women, many of which they blatantly espouse out loud. Someone who votes like Franken cares about women and therefore is unlikely to harass them. Someone who votes like, and takes the positions Moore takes, it much more likely to think he has rights that are greater than theirs.

[Ms. Toad]

18. Seriously? The person who fondled my butt in public

is also a flaming liberal, who cares about women.

So citing political views just doesn't cut it.

Franken has acknowledged bad behavior and/or crossing the line in two separate and sincere apologies. We should be following his lead, rather than insisting it didn't happen.

[treestar]

28. I'm not talking 100% certainty, just likelihood.

And Franken has women standing up for him too. So I can take that case and figure it is a set-up but figure it is more likely Moore actually did try to date such young women, given the conservative tendency to believe men are entitled to younger women if they have money.

[Hortensis]

33. Does following his lead mean waiting for investigation?

I certainly hope so.

[forthemiddle]

31. What about John Conyers

Would you vote for him, if he was running against a pro-life conservative?

[treestar]

36. Have not studied those accusations

Apparently they were only of being a jerk, rather than sexual harassment?

[forthemiddle]

37. All you have to do is google John Conyers accusations

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/john-conyers-vehemently-denies-sexual-harassment-allegations/story?id=51298445

This is one of many stories.

He denies them, but yet he paid settlements, kind of like OReilly....

[treestar]

38. Settlements don't indicate guilt absolutely

The motive of getting rid of the headache of a civil case is there.

He is under investigation and stepped down. Also 88 years old.

[oberliner]

5. There is no "may" about it

It is the primary reason why Jones will lose (sadly).

[RandySF]

6. No. No excuses

If pedophilia isn’t enough to sway voters then the problem is with them.

[roamer65]

7. Definitely.

We are about to see what percentage of AL are the true deplorables.

[qwlauren35]

10. Um...

how badly do you want Jones to win? 'cause he won't win if you call people names.

[treestar]

15. Are these voters really such children

that they will vote according to what someone else said about them?

[lastlib]

30. True dat, BUT....

WE have to live with the results.

[pansypoo53219]

12. pro FETUS only. screw them.

[A HERETIC I AM]

17. As George Calin once said about folks like that:

"If you're pre-born, you're safe.
If you're pre-school, you're fucked"

[dalton99a]

24. +1

[pnwmom]

19. Democrats are NOT saying we need to keep Franken no matter what he has done.

We are saying that the misbehavior he has been accused of was not an abuse of power or authority and was relatively trivial compared to the crimes of Roy Moore and others. And the good he has done far outweighs the claims these women have made, even if you believe them.

[JI7]

20. also we support the enquiry that Franken himself supports

it's those who want him to resign that don't want it.

[pnwmom]

21. Yes! nt

[DFW]

22. Republicans are not pro-life. They are only anti-abortion, and then only if it's not their mistress

Are they vegetarians? Are they against the death penalty? Are they for active prevention of the extinction of animal and plant species?

NO!!! So don't tell me they are "pro-life."


If their mistresses get pregnant, they are for abortion. They are just against abortion rights for others. Period.

[JI7]

23. they are Anti Choice

[Wounded Bear]

25. So, basically it is down to the women of Alabama...

and how dominated they are (as a group) by the patriarchy. I cannot imagine that very many independent, strong women could vote Republican, and certainly they can't support assholes like Moore, can they?

I suspect there are a LOT of Alabama women who have not voted their true conscience. And I suspect there are a lot of Alabamians-men and women-that have not voted at all in recent elections. I hope they set records for turnout come Dec 12. That's the only way to end the corrosive rot of Republicans in that state.

[Girard442]

26. Fanatical single-issue voters are...fanatical single-issue voters.

Hitler had some unfortunate views, but he was against abortion, so...

[AlexSFCA]

34. reality

I can 100% say if here in California there would be an alt right candidate polling well and democratic candidate running against with all kinds of verifiable accusations. Without a shadow of a doubt I would vote for the democrat even if he/she has done something unspeakable. This is because there is no one to spare in the senate, SC and the entire judicial system, our democracy, the entire world economy and world peace are at stake. Yes, I would vote for a despicable human being in an attempt to save the future for us and our children. It is the votes that count in the senate so I, for one, care about their votes and proposals not their moral character. We had people with good moral character like Bush anyone? Look what he has done to our country and how many thousands have died?!

It is not hard to imagine that moore is likely to succeed in AL.

[kentuck]

35. Being "anti-abortion" does not mean less abortions.

Statistics show that fewer abortions happen under Democratic control of government.

Also, being pro-women's choice does not mean someone is "pro-abortion".

[Initech]

40. The fundies need to stop the charade that they care about children.

They clearly don't if they vote for this fucking asshole.