A tale of two photos: Is Franken accuser's photo shopped?

[yurbud]

As someone who messes around with Photoshop quite a bit, I agree with the author of this post.

These are just a few snippets, but her detailed analysis is pretty persuasive.

The most convincing to me was the odd shape & darkness of the shadow on Al's face, and when she pulled up the brightness on the photo, you could see the angular rather than smooth edge of the woman's hair and light where it should be in the shadow.

This doesn't mean her accusation isn't true, but it does go to credibility.

But then there’s this photo, offered by Franken’s second accuser, Lindsay Menz, who went to CNN with the story, as evidence that Franken groped her rear at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010. According to CNN, Franken said he did not recall the photo-shoot, which is plausible considering that he would have had his photo taken with dozens if not hundreds of people at the event. Menz originally posted it on Facebook.



***

My opinion is that this was originally a picture of Franken alone against this same background, to which Menz was added in such a way to make them appear very close together. It would have been easy to do compared to the Tweeden one. Why? The background is simple (makes a huge difference), the dark figures contrast well against it (except in two places, about which more later, but also makes a huge difference), and the light is diffuse, so the shopper doesn’t have to worry about placing shadows precisely.


[link:https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/22/1717807/-A-tale-of-two-photos|
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[Kingofalldems]

1. Look out below.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

4. Hahaha! n/m

[VMA131Marine]

2. So is the contemporary Facebook post photoshopped too?

[lapucelle]

7. Do you have a link to the contemporaneos Facebool post photo?

[riverwalker]

11. Sister not on Facebook until 2011 ?

Link to tweet

not on Facebook until 2011 ?

[blimablam]

28. Nice catch!

[riverwalker]

9. No one has seen the Facebook post which is weird

I asked MJ Lee of CNN who broke the story if she actually saw it or was entire story based on a phone call. She never answered me.

[Demsrule86]

39. She is a right wing liar...no way Franken groped this right wing person with her husband

snapping the picture...those who believe this shit want to believe it and are doing the heavy lifting for the GOP. For shame on all of them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. It doesn't matter because what's depicted in the photo isn't at issue.

Can we just bury this dead horse now?

[Angry Dragon]

5. I agree

[njhoneybadger]

60. Of course it matters

Her credibility is the issue.

[pnwmom]

6. Also, I don't remember where I saw it, but there's another photo of Franken at the fair that day

wearing a different shirt.

[elehhhhna]

8. Yet because he got girl cooties on that one.

Lol

[elehhhhna]

10. If I'm going to Photoshop an Al picture...

It will totally unquestionably have his hand on my ass or it will show me making a face like I'm being goosed by a big pervert.

Not buying this one

[Demit]

12. You can't draw any definitive conclusions from a 72dpi image.

Photoshop power users will tell you that. I think this analysis is a lot of woo.

[L. Coyote]

43. True. If you blow this image up in Photoshop to 1200% it is also obviously very compressed.

Why such a low quality, tiny image to bolster an accusation? Maybe because a tiny, very compressed image actually masks the Photoshopping. Someone had to turn this into a small image. Why?

[Meowmee]

13. What looks odd

To me are the two white triangles between their faces- they do not look like the background behind them and appear to have been altered in some way. Fine art Photographer here. I’ve done lots of editing

[jalan48]

14. I agree. They seem to be floating is space.

[Meowmee]

15. Yep

It’s obvious to me. I also do not believe this witness account because she started a blinking a lot in an nbc video when she was asked and described what happened when he allegedly groped her. Not proof but it’s my private hunch.

[A Brand New World]

20. In the close-up picture the white triangles look like cloth that has a ripple in it.

It doesn't seem to look like vinyl siding.

[Meowmee]

32. Yes it could be a piece of cloth

In between hair strands but they look very odd to me- the “ triangles” don’t seem to be attached to either of their clothes. That kind of thing can happen when you do cloning.

[L. Coyote]

44. Agreed. Very obvious when blown up to 1200%.

[Meowmee]

81. I havent blown it up

I’ll try that.

[njhoneybadger]

62. They wouldn't be that bright

[Meowmee]

80. Yep

Prolly not. They’d have some shadows.

[anneboleyn]

69. To me, the right side of Frankens body seems to be missing (his right) Compared to the left side

of his body (his left), which looks like the normal size of his shoulder and chest, his right side seems to be cut down severely If it is photoshopped it looks like his right side was cropped poorly perhaps to make it look more like he was angled just right to grab her butt. He is missing half of what should be there, and if his right shoulder was the same size as the left this photo would look very different. It looks extremely odd to me — it also looks much darker than his left side and there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference in the light available.

[Meowmee]

79. Agree

It looks like the right side has been altered and part is missing. If his arm were around her etc I think you’d expect to see more of his right shoulder etc.

[Generic Brad]

16. That appears to be the same shirt he wore at the 2015 Rondo Days parade

It looks exactly like the one he wore the day he posed for a photo with my daughter and wife (his hands were on their shoulders in the photo I have of them together). Perhaps it is his favorite summer shirt.

[LisaL]

17. There is a reflection in the window behind them of what appears to be an arm (presumably hers?)

It doesn't prove anything, but I just noticed its there.

[LisaL]

23. Looking at it some more, looks like an arm around his waist?

I can see a short sleeve and a watch.

[L. Coyote]

45. No arm. There is a light and shadow line in the reflection which is missing on the door itself.

[LisaL]

46. I am talking about the window behind them, not the door.

[L. Coyote]

49. The photgrapher's eye level is just higher than his, three siding lines in reflection.

The lowest siding line is the one behind his forehead. Why are their heads missing in the reflection?

[LisaL]

51. Given that you don't know the distances or the angles, or where the photographer was,

I have seen no proof the heads should have been reflected.

[L. Coyote]

59. We do know the distances and angles and where the photographer was, as revealed by the photo.

All of this can easily be measured in the photo itself, especially when we have siding lines and reflections. It is easy to determine the disappearing point where the siding lines converge, ...... I learned this stuff in fifth grade art doing drawings with perspective.

[ProudLib72]

18. If there were a pic of him alone on a deserted island

the claim would be he is touching someone's ass. I guess we could then discuss the sandcastle in the background instead of the fact that the accusation is pure bullshit.

[NotASurfer]

21. Or so they could write about sex clams

Especially juveniles. Because false equivalency

[Control-Z]

22. What are these "sex clams" I'm hearing about?

You are not the first to mention them on DU.

[ProudLib72]

24. I don't know what a sex clam is

But no one had better touch its butt! The only person on a desert island surrounded by sex clams!

Actually, we had better not overdo the sex clams bit because "clam" is a synonym for 'vagina". It's derogatory.

[NotASurfer]

25. Alabama newspaper headline

I'll let that speak for itself..,

[Wellstone ruled]

19. Hey,does anyone notice something strange with the first Picture?

Quit familiar with the DFL Booth on the Fair Grounds. Not aware of 2 1/2 inch lap siding on any of the Booth. Notice the awning window directly behind Al. Never seen any windows of that type on the Fairgrounds Booth.

Again,when we were at the Booth when Al was there,first he was wearing a white polo,seen him later during the Street Parade wearing the same shirt.

What did Richard Painter say earlier today,why are Roy Moore people hanging around the Twin Cities,and he said this smells like a GOP dirty tricks operation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

64. This probably wouldn't have been taken at the DFL booth

but at Franken's own smaller booth (I think it's on Judson), which, IIRC, is kind of an open shed-type structure that does have lap siding. He makes some appearances at the big DFL building and I've seen him at the small one as well (but I did not get my picture taken or my butt grabbed).

[Wellstone ruled]

66. Ah,do remember

that Booth. And yes,both my Spouse and I did the Photo thingee at the DFL pavilion,again,thanks for the info. We used to make the trek back to Minny each Summer and close it out at the Fair.

Interesting thing about the White Polo Pic,our Son's partner is leaning against the post in the background.

[fleabiscuit]

27. Is english your second language? nt

[MFM008]

30. Intetesting

I use a program similar called paintshop pro.
It is indeed possible.

[brooklynite]

31. Quick: send this exonerating evidence to Al Franken!

In the meantime, Franken hasn't disavowed this or any other photo he's in.

[DeminPennswoods]

33. Not quite

Franken has said he doesn't remember the events described by the two anonymous accusers. He's accepted responsibility regardless.

[GatoGordo]

35. No, he has not accepted responsibility.

He said, he is "sorry that these women feel badly".

That is a far cry from apologizing for acting badly.

[Demsrule86]

40. How would he remember all the photos...and they will just keep making claims because there

true intent is to destroy Franken and take the seat...righty liars don't work...so look now we have anonymous liars...you have to want to believe ill of Franken and Democrats in general to believe this shit.

[brooklynite]

48. Occams Razor...

Choice 1: A well-organized conspiracy finds multiple women to launch a coordinated attack of accusation of inappropriate behavior, but does such a sloppy job of producing corroborating evidence that an amateur blogger can see through their scheme.

Choice 2: The photo is real.

[yurbud]

53. shitty photoshop for propaganda purposes has a long tradition

even mainstream media has been caught doing worse, like recycling photos or clips from one incident to cover a new one.

[yurbud]

56. remember the Kerry Fonda photo?

[brooklynite]

61. ...but we're not talking about the average FREE REPUBLIC user creating their own meme...

...we're talking about something organized enough and with sufficient resources to find multiple women to launch coordinated and consistent attacks on a US Senator with sufficient credence that he won't disavow the event or the photo.

[yurbud]

58. here's a good collection:

https://weburbanist.com/2010/10/27/politics-of-photoshop-15-shady-edits-for-political-purposes/

[Demsrule86]

83. Even if the photo is 'real'. I still don't see anything there...are woman who's husband is taking

the photo is standing next to Franken smiling...meaningless drivel.

[yurbud]

78. I admire Al's response to this, but that doesn't mean his accusers are all on the up and up

[GatoGordo]

34. Women cannot be believed?

The double standards on this forum are appalling.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. It must be a real burden gracing us with your presence on this forum.

[Demsrule86]

41. I would not believe lying rightie women in what is obviously a ploy to destroy Franken.

[yurbud]

52. Women can be believed at least as much as men but charges need to be verified

before you throw someone under the bus.

and Democratic politicians have a history of throwing people under the bus as soon as the right clears their throat.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

68. Women can be believed, and their complaints should be taken seriously.

But women are also people, and sometimes they (we), too, have agendas. Taking a complaint seriously does not mean you must believe every single word unquestioningly. It means you don't dismiss it out of hand, as used to happen all the time and sometimes still does. It means that you proceed under the assumption that it could be true, but you also have to consider evidence that it might not be, or that it is not 100% accurate in all respects.

I could sit here at home in my bathrobe and make a phone call to CNN and tell them Al Franken groped me at the State Fair, which he never did. What if I were an avid Trump supporter who wanted to discredit Franken further? I'm a Minnesota resident who does go to the fair almost every year, so how could my false claim be defended against? I'm a woman, so does that mean I must be absolutely believed?

[Hugin]

36. Okay, I'll play. How come his glasses are not displaced to the right?

Whenever, I've taken a head tight photo wearing glasses the earpiece is pushed in to my head and the lenses are displaced an equal distance in front of my eyes.

Also, her hair is not disturbed or indented where the earpiece would contact it.

Doesn't matter, tho. Everyone paying attention has already come to a determination and judged the validity of the photo for themselves. This won't change any minds.

[DetlefK]

37. Oh FFS, I've had it with these "photo is fake" conspiracy-theories.

RUN A FUCKING AUTOCORRELATION-ANALYSIS ON THE PIC.

THAT WILL TELL YOU WHETHER IT'S PHOTOSHOPPED.

[Demsrule86]

42. I don't see any issues with the photo period...and I doubt very much that Franken

would grab a woman's ass at a fair with her husband taking the picture...this is a rightie plot and those who pile on are only helping Trump and the Republicans.

[L. Coyote]

47. Standing right next to a window reflected in the background, their heads missing in the reflection.

We see the entire window width reflected, the building corner, and a patch of more area. Given the angles and photographer position, shouldn't we see at least part of her head in that background window showing such a wide swath beside the window they arew almost touching on her right?

[LisaL]

50. But I see what appears to be an arm and a back reflected in there.

I think the photo is real. Regardless it doesn't show any groping. So it doesn't prove the allegation.

[B2G]

54. An arm?

I don't see anything reflected in the window.

[LisaL]

55. There are a whole bunch of things that are reflected in the window, how do you not see

anything?

[B2G]

63. On first glance, it looked like

you were viewing a room that had additional windows and that's what you were seeing.

If it is a reflection, you would be seeing what's in FRONT of them, not behind them.

[L. Coyote]

57. The reflection in the reflected window is positioned behind the photographer.

The window beside her reflects what is out in front of them as viewed in the reflection behind them. The corner of the building is next to the window beside her.

Nothing below their eye level is in the reflection behind them. The camera lens is at the elevation of his eyebrows. Note the siding lines in the reflection.

[Sancho]

65. Al's eyes appear to be looking to the left of her focus...

and he's not really smiling. Wouldn't they take several to get a better expression?

I don't know if it's photoshopped, but she doesn't look "grabbed" at all.

[brooklynite]

67. No they would not "take several"...

...if it's a photoline, they'd be processing a lot of people through, and wouldn't have the time. If it's a one-off encounter, the photo would be taken by friend of the subject and would probably be a single shot unless something went seriously wrong.

[Sancho]

71. I thought Franken stopped by their booth/shop...

and the husband took the picture. Most of the time with phones now, you click off several pictures.

As far as she described, there was no line.

Of course, the situation description may be changing.

[Calista241]

70. As a photographer, I work with Lightroom all day long modifying pictures

The photo is clearly taken by an amateur; the composition is awful and the entire photo is horribly underexposed.

I’m inclined to believe the photo is genuine. The light source is fairly consistent on their faces and on their clothes. Shopping background in between hair strands like the garage detail on the left side of the woman is extraordinarily difficult. Someone would have spent dozens of hours on those two dozen hairs, and even then it would be super obvious under close inspection.

Whether Franken is grabbing her ass is not reflected in the photo. As someone who takes a fair number of photos of people in this exact pose, my belief is that you’d see some reaction on her face if she was being felt up.

[LisaL]

72. Her husband took the photo.

So it was taken by an amateur. And yes, she has a very pleasant smile on her face. One would think that she would have shown some reaction if she were being groped.

[oberliner]

73. "One would think that she would have shown some reaction if she were being groped."

This is why people are hesitant about giving their real name and providing photographs in these circumstances.

[yurbud]

77. good point.

[oberliner]

74. What would convince you that it's not photo shopped?

Anything?

[L. Coyote]

82. The original full-sized file would be a good start. Where is it?

Whose camera takes 550 x 309 pixel images? Show us a 1600 x 900 version, or larger.

[forthemiddle]

76. Gee, I still cant figure out why some women

Want to stay anonymous???

[yurbud]

84. Conspiracy theory or justifiable suspicion? See this thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141923535