General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGiven the suddeness with which all of these revelations of sexual misconduct have come out,
and given what we already know about Russian interference in the 2016 election,
and given that Putin has an interest in keeping the US electorate and politicians distracted,
and given that sex is something that the US corporate media uses, along with violence, to sell their product to advertisers,
and taking nothing away from the fact that some men in positions of power abuse those positions to get what they want,
and not excusing in any way these terrible abuses, and the effect they have on the abused women,
is it possible that Russia is also behind all the secrets that are coming to light?
Is this a way for Putin to normalize the predatory behavior of Donald Trump, and perhaps a reminder from Putin to Trump about what may exist referring to Trump's own sexual misconduct?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I dont think he wants to normalize anything about Trump. Trump is causing chaos and and leaving a void in world leadership that is giving Putin a stronger position.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And playing in to Putin's position.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)Just stop this.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)opportunistically now with intent to divide and destroy as much as possible.
It's obvious to me that the first Franken accusation was designed to provide cover for the Republican tax theft and would have been engineered by the Republicans. It exploded over all media as planned. CNN did its usual blanket coverage with that one issue pushing aside all others, not much different with MSNBC.
As social media exploded, though, for sure Russian agents already here would have been right on it, encouraging divisive and extremist conflicts on both the far right and, I'm sorry to say, the left, by revving up extremist feminist outrage.
It'd have been fun to listen to the conversations in those troll farms as they learned that single, unproven allegations of a kiss or a bottom pat could lead to shrill demands for resignation of a U.S. senator--of what most claim at least to be their own party! They must be very amused at joining in that one.
Russia is, overall, a very conservative country. Not long ago, in old fashioned marriages fathers ceremonially passed the stick they supposedly chastised their daughters with to the new husbands at the altar. Charming tradition.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Putin recognizes opportunities and responds to them. And given the authoritarian nature of Russia, and its leaders, countermeasures are not as effective.
What happened to the musicians of Pussy Riot is a example to all Russians of how dissent is strictly regulated.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)government. I've read that, before the authoritarian revolution they call communist, absolute authoritarian secular and religious leaders were joined together, as far as the people were concerned, as one unified authority that required strict obedience in this life and the next.
The brief attempt to establish a real democracy in the 1990s doesn't count, of course. As you say, countermeasures would not be nearly as effective. Strong man Putin and his plan to expand to the SovUn's former borders are hugely popular.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And the Czar also had a secret police force to control expression.
Irish_Dem
(47,399 posts)We are quite different from most of the other women on the planet.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and more issues of trust for government and US institutions.
Irish_Dem
(47,399 posts)And it is about male predators, not the government.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But Putin might also be willing to add fuel to the fire by feeding information to right wing bloggers.
Cyber-warfare.
Irish_Dem
(47,399 posts)My .02.
It will be a win for women.
Which is a win for the country.
Amaryllis
(9,525 posts)Trump loading up federal courts with conservative activist judges.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,476 posts)Keep it up.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,476 posts)Russians have hacked America so yes it's true.
B2G
(9,766 posts)That Russia is responsible for all these allegations?
Really?
Kingofalldems
(38,476 posts)Nice try. Well not really.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Between election interference and email hacking and suggesting Russians are behind these allegations of misconduct.
Are you saying that this is all drummed up by the Kremlin? I've seen you hint at this before, so why don't you clarify your stance here? Spell It out for me.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am not suggesting that the Russians instigated this, but that they might be supplying information to bloggers to keep things boiling, so to speak. It would not be unreasonable to suspect that Russian operatives might be looking for things to divide US citizens.
Stinky The Clown
(67,818 posts)That is not to say that some of the accusations are true. Maybe much more than some.
But this has been weaponized.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But, as you said, perhaps the Russians are weaponizing the matter.
Demsrule86
(68,670 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)just the willingness of Putin to do what he can in the war with the US. Russia cannot compete militarily, but cyber-warfare and political dirty tricks are a relatively low cost way of weakening an opponent.
Demsrule86
(68,670 posts)anywhere in a long time. Cyber war is one way of waging war in the 21st century and the Russians have mastered it. We have a very poor internet infrastructure, and it is slow, old and can not be made secure in my opinion We need a massive overhaul ... and a huge outlay of resources...sort of like the space program. We have leftovers from the cold war in the military always fighting the last battle. Trump is too stupid to understand what is going on and only cares about enriching himself...and Putin has something on him or has promised him lots of money which is the only thing Trump cares about in my opinion. I believe Trump has betrayed this country with Russia. I am hoping that Mueller finds something so compelling that Trump will be forced to resign as I don't believe the GOP will get rid of him...they are willing to accept the worst riffraff in order to retain power...traitors, white nationalist and of course pedophiles to name but a few of the deplorables that make up the modern Republican Party.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They couldn't get women to come forward, so they put it aside. Reporter said when Weinstein story broke, women started returning her calls.
I think we are blaming Russia for things caused by other factors.
Stinky The Clown
(67,818 posts)Yes, I believe they are, for the most part. In fact, I outright disbelieve just one - Leeann Tweeden.
Here's a complicater. Conyers did what many people/organizations do - they settle things for cash to save time, lots more money in defense, embarrassment, and a host of other reasons (That is a general statement, not specific to the Conyers matter except as background.
Is Conyers guilty of something? Maybe so. I absolutely stipulate that he could be. But that is not germane to my point.
Consider this: if all was righteous, how is it that a slimy right wing hacktivist got the materials and gave them to a news organization? That's a bridge too far for me. THAT is where it is weaponized.
Look at the Franken thing. There is good evidence the woman was plotting this for a while. There is good evidence she was in contact with right wing "command and control" who may well be running the operation. It is a fact he story morphed - juuuuust a little, but just enough - as the push back came and as facts became known.
How is it that Roger Stone knew it was going to happen before it did? How is it she discussed it with Hannity ahead of time? Someplace in here is where this got weaponized.
We need to be really wary of accepting things at face value.
Is Harvey Weinstein guilty? Almost certainly, even with a criminal trial.
Spacey? Again, almost certainly.
Moore? Ditto.
Cosby? Absolutely.
Franken? I have more doubts now than when this shit broke. Has anyone heard more from the second accuser?
Conyers? So far I really have doubts.
Charley Rose? Probably so.
Trump? Again, almost certainly.
But I can't help wonder when i see the preponderance of the accusations leveled against people who favor the left.
I also find myself saddened at the seeming absence of proportionality.
We have a pedophile being endorsed by the National Pussy Grabber while a man who maybe did a stupid thing with a joke photograph is made to hide and let things blow over.
Again, these are complicated matters. I suspect there are no simple answers and certainly no simple solutions.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)My suggestion is that Russia is undoubtedly willing to take advantage of this situation, and they well may be doing so.
As to the accusers, and the accusations, they should be dealt with and judged as separate stories.
But along with the wave of stories, even sadder is that the victims obviously felt that coming forward would be useless, so all of these victims had to internalize what happened while the predators were free to commit more crimes.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It is possible that Putin ordered the trolls to get to work on social media, just as it is possible that Russian trolls are combing the web for information.
But the first cause of the problem is predominantly male predation.
Denzil_DC
(7,257 posts)I don't believe he's behind a lot of stuff people casually blame on Russia at the moment.
We've had a strong right-wing online and social media presence for years, and many tricksters who've gotten very good at propaganda, infiltration, etc. If you've been active online over the last decade or so, you've no doubt seen it in action, both in the US and the UK, where I'm from.
What I do believe is that Russian botnets can tap into and overlap with the right-wing networks and push things along by sheer weight of numbers.
There are some stories that originate from the Russian botnets, but not everything does.
meow2u3
(24,773 posts)I heard on the tube earlier that the massive backlash against sexual harassment (which I prefer to call sexually oriented bullying, or SOB) is part of a mass rebellion against bullies in general. Americans are sick of bullies getting away with bloody blue murder, to the point of intimidating their targets into silence--and we've had enough.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Will the right attempt to frame this as left wing political correctness?
meow2u3
(24,773 posts)Does a house cat pee in the litterbox?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)To the second question.
vi5
(13,305 posts)..just that women are finally coming forward and feeling empowered to confront the type of bullshit they've been dealing with for decades.
Definitely not that. It's definitely Putin.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As he obviously did during the Trump campaign?
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)One suspects that it is.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)retaliation.
hay rick
(7,640 posts)To those who argue that women are suddenly feeling empowered to speak up...I wonder why the Bill Cosby business didn't have that effect.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Was a critical mass reached?
hay rick
(7,640 posts)from the "tax cuts and jobs" rape of the American people, the attack on net neutrality and the ongoing Mueller investigation... to say nothing about promoting the false equivalence of a pedophile with somebody who may or may not have inappropriately touched a woman's ass.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but it does not help when Democratic politicians furnish one. And yes, the GOP has their own standard, their own low bar, but it still does not excuse this behavior.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and abused in oh so many ways.
It couldnt be because this country elected a self-professed serial assaulter.
Its gotta be Russia behind this.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but possibly aiding it by amplifying things on social media.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is more important than politics.
This is about changing the culture and no longer allowing this heinous behavior to continue without consequence.
To say "Russia and Putin" is behind this is an embarrassment to our side.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But if we accept that Putin was eager to influence US elections, and if we accept that Russian trolls and bots were very active prior to the election, why should or would we assume that these Russian operatives magically ceased to exist after the election?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I am also sure that people are coming forward with stories about sexual harassment of their own volition.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)to divide and confuse people.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I certainly believe that the right-wingers (and probably Russian elements as well) are using this information to their political advantage. However, that does not make the accusations any less serious.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I cannot imagine what it must be like for someone to hold that in, speaking of abuse, for many years. Imagine a 14 year old keeping silent for 40 years.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Who have remained silent about it for decades (and continue to do so).
madville
(7,412 posts)There are just a bunch of perverted men out there and women are finally brave enough to come forward in these numbers.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)cause chaos.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)librechik
(30,676 posts)in order to promote chaos and undermine our culture.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Taking advantage of an already divided electorate at a low cost to Russia. Much cheaper than spending a trillion dollars a year on a war machine.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Would anyone here ask that question if only republicans we're being exposed?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But since both have been exposed, it heats up the discussion on both sides. I do not feel Putin sees the GOP as allies, only as tools.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I highly doubt Russia has much to do with it.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)They know the secrets of many famous and powerful people. They regularly recruit cyber criminals to hack for them in exchange for dropping criminal prosecutions.
It almost feels like death by a thousand cuts. And we are helpless to defend ourselves because all three branches of our government are compromised.
Dear Lord.