The reason for the Franken false accusations of groping: He's turned out to be a tiger in the Senate

[Honeycombe8]

Franken has turned out to be enemy #1 to the Republicans, and particularly strong against Sessions' lying. He's articulate, smart, bold, and popular...and has made his point several times in a way that no other senator has.

Soooo...they are trying to get rid of him.

McConnell, too, is in the process of trying to get Sessions as a sign-in to Roy Moore's slot, to give Trump a way to fire Mueller.

[malaise]

1. And he exposed Sessions lying under oath

I'm against any harassment but this smells 'orchestrated'.

[Honeycombe8]

4. There was no harassment. nt

[questionseverything]

29. if the woman feels it is harrassment,her feelings are valid but

having a tasteless moment is no reason to resign or even be censured

al franken is very dangerous to repubs...he was smart enough to demand a hand count and won

[FBaggins]

53. Her accusation goes beyond a "tasteless moment".

Far beyond.

[Nevernose]

59. No, it doesnt

It goes as far as “Al Franken was a bad kisser so we only ever kissed once, in rehearsal. After that we fake kissed.”

[FBaggins]

61. That's nonsense

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 09:13 PM - Edit history (3)

It was a USO tour and he wrote the script. There is no plausible USO stage event that involves shoving your tongue down a woman's throat. There's no way to read his alleged behavior there as anything but assault. No honest person on this thread actually believes that he felt he needed to rehearse the kissing scene (or that he wrote it into the script in the first place for any reason other than to facilitate his ridiculously juvenile attempt to woo her).

Nor should any progressive EVER downplay clear sexual harassment merely a "tasteless moment". Take "groping" out of it and it's still "while I was sleeping he had someone take a picture of him pretending to grope me while he flashed the "hey! Look what I can get away with!" smile at the camera... then he sent me the photo to rub it in"

There's no way to spin that as "tasteless". It's sexual harassment and entirely unacceptable.

She obviously felt violated... HE says "It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture"... the obvious question is why you can't see that as more than "tasteless"?

[Honeycombe8]

69. Why do you assume Franken did that? He did not admit to that at all.

He said he remembered the incident differently. He apologized for the punk photo.

It's not like there's a history of women accusing Franken of molestation, like in the case of Trump, Bill Cosby, Roy Moore, and others.

Some of Moore's accusers are Trumpers. In this case, the woman is a conservative who appeared on Sean Hannity show to "tell her story."

That doesn't mean it's not true. But there's no reason to assume it is true, when there is no other corroborating evidence, like a history of that M.O., other accusers, etc. He has been a champion of women's rights (unlike Moore).

So it's odd that anyone who knows anything about Franken and this accuser, would assume it's true.

[questionseverything]

63. getting humped on stage seems tasteless too but evry1 laughed

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029859804

comedy certainly can be tasteless

to me the pic is nothing, a gag, wether she is in on it or not

if and this is a big if at this point ,he actually tonged her then that is something I would not have expected of him but since he has apologized for what she may have felt and she has accepted his apology , me thinks u protest too much

[FBaggins]

64. Do we have to go over The difference between consensual and nonconsensual?

The same act can be "tasteless" but NOT abusive if the woman knows about it and agrees to participate. Absent that its harassment at best... assault at worst.

As for you thinks... I haven't protested HIM. I've protested those here who defend his actions as somehow acceptable or put forward weird theories of faked photos or lying victim.

[questionseverything]

68. i said if the woman feels harassed ,her feelings are valid

franken remembers it differently (as far as the kiss)

I welcome a full investigation so we know if there actually was a guard with franken ,when the photo was taken

all of it

but I feel the whole thing is a distraction from the biggest theft in our history(repub tax cuts for billionaires)

the election in bama whr we have repubs defending pedophiles

since we don't oversee the counting of our own votes, there is a good chance the pedophile will win and that bothers me more than al's fish lips

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029722275

[GoCubsGo]

18. Yep. This is as much revenge as it is distraction.

The more details I hear, the more I agree about the 'orchestrated' part, too. And, why did this woman say she forgives Franken, and then turn around and continue to cry about it on every media outlet that would give her air time? I thought she forgave him.

[bdamomma]

25. this feels like a set up and a distraction.

I like Senator Franken, he is good, and he had Sessions on the rope.

[maddiemom]

38. And it seems I'm not the only one wondering about the timing of this allegation.

[malaise]

43. Timing also coincides with them losing big re Menendez

Christie does not get to appoint a ReTHUG

[GoCubsGo]

65. Not by a long-shot.

Lots of us questioned it from the onset, and we have become even more suspicious since the it came out that Roger Stone and Infowars were involved. It stinks to high hell.

[misanthrope]

50. It certainly seems "convenient"

especially when combined with the Roger Stone/Infowars aspects.

[Kirk Lover]

2. Not sure if the kiss is false but this whole thing is becoming

QUITE TRUMPED UP.

[NCTraveler]

3. Some Republicans have figured out Clinton isnt running again.

They are slowly changing targets.

[Honeycombe8]

5. More than that. Franken is going after them for Russia. And he's making headway.

This is a two-parter: Sessions leaving AG office to be Alabama senator again, leaves the path open for the appt of a new AG, one who will fire Mueller.

Getting rid of Franken is another part.

Who's next? They're going after "this Rusher thing."

[NCTraveler]

7. I didnt elaborate much.

I agree. It’s how they are spotting their new targets.

[maddiemom]

41. Nailed it!

[Cattledog]

6. K&R

[oberliner]

8. There was no false accusation

Al Franken himself has not said any of the accusations are false.

[greyl]

9. Only reason she believes she was groped is because of a photo that doesn't show groping.

edit: and maybe with some recent egging-on by people who are more interested in damaging Al than being champions for women. IF it's true that Hannity saw the photo years ago, why didn't he make hay about it then? Because the photo does not show actual groping, it shows a suggestive prank.

[oberliner]

12. Franken has not said that accusations of him groping her are false

Is my point.

[greyl]

16. He definitely hasn't admitted to groping. He's being patient and careful, not defensive.

There's no solid reason yet to say "there was no false accusation", and certainly not just because of the absence of a denial.

[Pacifist Patriot]

20. Exactly. Absence of a denial is not proof of the charges.

[markpkessinger]

55. He apologized for it, which pretty much is an admission . . .

. . . But the larger issue, I think, is that in Franken's case, how ever egregious his behavior was in that incident, it appears to be a one-off, and not part of a long-standing pattern of harassment of women such as is the case with Moore and indeed with Trump.

[uponit7771]

62. Did he apologize for the groping ?! Thx in advance

[.99center]

17. The proof is in the picture.

Tweeden also quit accusing Al of groping once the public figured out that she lied about the photo.

[greyl]

23. Not quite, unfortunately.

One picture that doesn't show groping does not mean no groping occurred. However, the victim's claim that she didn't know she was groped until she saw that photo, makes it more likely that no groping occurred, and that she is misinterpreting (or misrepresenting) the photo.

[.99center]

32. It proves that Al didn't grope her in the picture

Which is what she falsely claimed.

[greyl]

33. True. nt

[Ligyron]

35. How the fuck do you grope someone through a flak jacket?

There's metal plate covering your breasts.

[greyl]

36. Right - that, too. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. I think we're arguing against you drawing the conclusion there were no false accusations...

based on Franken not saying they were false. The statements of both individuals do not allow us to draw any conclusion definitively at this point. They could be false, they could be true. Franken's response does nothing to clarify that. Which may be precisely why he feels an ethics investigation is appropriate.

[greyl]

24. Exactly! nt

[Bucky]

52. Also her account of him forcing a kiss on her in a "rehearsal" then slipping her the tongue

That's not just a photo, that's a first hand account of abusing a female subordinate. Not cool. If true, of course.

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. He did say he remembers the rehearsal differently.

That comment would seem to deny that particular accusation without shaming her.

[oberliner]

11. That is different from saying her accusation is false

He is just saying he doesn't remember it the same way.

[Pacifist Patriot]

15. He may not have taken the explicit step of saying the accusation is false, but...

he certainly has left the door open for that implication. His apology does not assert the veracity of her claims and we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that it does.

ETA: The headline of your reply says "there was no false accusation." We simply cannot know that with the words of either party at this point.

[Kingofalldems]

51. Just wow. Too much.

His statement is clear to me. And the proof is in the picture.

[YessirAtsaFact]

39. He was diplomatic enough not to call her a liar

NM

[.99center]

13. Is this accusation true?

"I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep.
How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?"

Did Al touch her in the photo?

[leftynyc]

22. He HAS said he doesn't remember

it that way but apologized anyway. I guess he could have called her a liar but he's not a republican so didn't go that way.

[quickesst]

27. He did say...

... that he remembers the event differently from his accuser. Certainly not an admission of guilt, and certainly not an admission that they are true.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. He has explicitly said he doesn't think they are true. They don't match his recollection.

But he has apologized and she has accepted his apology.

[dalton99a]

14. Exactly.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. I have to think this incident was a one-off, and that Franken welcomes

an investigation because he knows there's nothing else out there. The fact that he wrote raunchy jokes as a comedian has been known for years; he never made any effort to hide it. The reason I doubt there are any more "groping" or other such incidents is this: When Franken ran for the Senate in 2008, his opponent was Norm Coleman, a real sleazebag. Coleman was an opportunist who started out his political career as a Democrat but switched to the GOP when he saw there were more openings for him there. So he ran for Mayor of St. Paul the second time as a GOPer. He ran for governor in 1998, but was defeated by Jesse Ventura(!). He wanted to run for governor the next time, but good pal Karl Rove talked him into running for the Senate instead; he almost certainly would have been defeated if Wellstone hadn't been killed in a plane crash.

Franken was his opponent when he ran for re-election in 2008, and the results were so close that Coleman had two recounts done; then after losing the second one he took the matter to the state Supreme Court, which ruled unanimously for Franken. Coleman's campaign featured really nasty attack ads relating to Franken's career as a comedian and some of his raunchy humor - the stuff that's coming out now about these jokes and skits was already known long ago, was dusted off by Coleman and is being dragged out again. But there was never any suggestion that Franken had ever done anything like the incident with Leeann Tweeden. Coleman just said yesterday that he'd have won if that incident had been known in 2008 - but why wasn't it? Coleman and Rove turned over every single rock they could find to get dirt on Franken. Coleman spent a fortune on attack ads and on the second recount. Why didn't they find the Tweeden incident? And why didn't they find any others like it? Maybe because there weren't any?

[maddiemom]

47. Excellent points and summation, Thanks!

[bdamomma]

26. He was a comedian for a number of years

on the SNL team too, then his goal was to be Senator. He is no Roy Moore that is for damn sure.

[The_Casual_Observer]

28. They built a whole bullshit story around that picture.

The woman is a bullshit artist that is no longer getting money for tits and ass, she is stuck in some shitty radio station and can't afford her condo in West LA anymore.

[bdamomma]

30. if this snow balls into Senator Franken having to leave the Senate

and they keep that stupid child molester Roy Moore, everyone call Mr. McConnell, this is total BS.

Senator Franken is no Roy Moore. Senator Franken is not even my Senator I will call his office to say I support him totally.

[C_U_L8R]

31. Senator Al Franken is smarter than all of us

And funnier too. I trust he’s handling this kerfuffle well.

[TrollBuster9090]

34. I agree this is why they'd want to get rid of Franken, but I don't think...

...I don't think that's why they chose to pull this rabbit out of a hat RIGHT NOW.

That photo has been in their hands for 11 years, and they've been saving it for a rainy day. They decided yesterday was the rainy day because they wanted something to distract from the Roy Moore sex scandals. The fact that THIS was the best they could do in the "whataboutism" distraction department is proof they haven't got very much.

As bad as it may be, the Franken story is a two day story. The Moore story will last for AT LEAST another month, and if he actually gets elected it'll keep on going indefinitely. As will the Trump story.

Trump already shot himself in the foot (and his feet already look like Swiss cheese) by tweeting about Franken. His advisers told him to STFU about Moore AND Franken, lest the brings up the subject of sexual harassment, which he is the MOST guilty of....but the f@#kwit just couldn't help himself. He has no self control.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. Franken leaving the Senate would likely result in Keith Ellison replacing him.

I don't think the GOP wants that.

[demigoddess]

37. +1

[treestar]

40. hypocritically as usual too

as they are running Moore.

[GallopingGhost]

42. This.

Exactly.

Get rid of anyone who exposes them for the liars they are.

[Xipe Totec]

44. Consider it early vetting for a presidential run

Any dirt they had on Al, they've used in this gambit.

[Nevernose]

60. +1 And dont forget the stalking

Wherein he tried to correct a conservative radio host’s understanding of federal budget expenditures.

Which was ALSO “predicted” by Roger Stone.

Democrats need to stop furthering what is clearly a false narrative.

[Hekate]

45. Who does it serve to kick out a strong Dem senator? Who does it serve for Dems to fall for this...

... Every Godsdamned Time?

The VRWC gets to pick us off one by one, while we try to prove what? That we are all saints? No impurity shall pass?

While the GOP gives a pass to their own boy-diddlers, child molesters, diaper-wearers, prostitute-hirers, wife-beaters, and other felonious men?

False equivalency will be the death of us yet.

[gordianot]

48. Every time Democrats fall for this usually with an apology.

In this case an apology was appropriate and quickly provided. Might I add Trump is ripping himself to pieces by acknowledging any case of sexual misconduct. I do expect similar stories to emerge while we are being robbed.

[superpatriotman]

49. Not a grope

NOT A GROPE!!!

[maddiemom]

54. Franken is a cum laude graduate in political science from Harvard.

He's far brighter than many in Congress (restraining myself from mentioning obvious names). He ruthlessly suppressed his sense of humor during his first term, and it was a relief when he relaxed a bit. A lack of humor is sadly missing in making well-rounded human beings of many of our congresspeople, and that wasn't always the case.

[ehrnst]

57. kicked and recced. (nt)

[ananda]

58. This is it.

The Reeps want him gone.

They will literally do anything .. even though
they represent the worst of the sexual predators,
including Moore and 45 himself.

[loyalsister]

66. We're the ones being punished because of his behavior

The photo shows a person very explicitly joking about groping a woman without consent. He apparently posed for the photo that took something that is commonly traumatizing to victims. It is clear that he thought it was funny at the time. That this photo exists reveals a disrespect and devaluation of women. And, it's his own fault that it exists. We are discovering the widespread objectification and victimization that has been festering in the entertainment industry. He was part of it, and willingly participated. He is one who is recognizing the problems.

I'm not one to call for his resignation because I think he is handling it with class. I trust his judgement on what to do now. I am glad he isn't crying conspiracy and leveling accusations toward a woman who deserves to be heard in accordance with basic respect we have given other women. He got caught and is taking responsibility.

[smirkymonkey]

67. I have thought this was a set up from the beginning.

He is nothing but a thorn in their side and they want him gone. Well, they aren't going to get rid of him that easily. I only hope he doesn't meet the fate of Paul Wellstone.