Over 9,000 Murders by Gun in US; 39 in UK

[flamingdem]

** To all the gun apologists, it's our violent CULTURE, fixing it is a SOCIAL cure, take some responsibility

http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

*The Home office reported murder statistics in the UK for the 12 months to March 2009, but these are 12-month figures).

For more on murder by firearms in Britain, see the BBC.

The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita over all. In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 48 times fewer than in the US.

Do hunters really need semi-automatic Glock hand guns? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.

[flamingdem]

1. Let's permit Long Rifles only and over 9 thousand lives would be spared yearly

[obamanut2012]

34. Oh, so not even shotguns are allowed under your scheme?

[NickB79]

2. That's almost a 50% decrease from it's peak 20 or so years ago

So we're moving in the right direction, at least.

[flamingdem]

3. That's probably mostly gang violence

and yes good but not good enough.

Also, this is an gun lobby talking point

[NickB79]

9. FBI statistics is a gun lobby talking point?

What, do you expect all gun violence to automatically stop overnight?

A 50% drop in gun-related murder in 20 years in a country of 300 million people and 300 million guns is an astonishing number. Taking into account the massive surge in gun and ammo purchases over the past decade, it's downright mind-boggling.

[flamingdem]

13. Others have used that talking point today to justify their pro-gun position

That's what I am pointing out. I think it's not the point. The point is we need change, and even that is a threat to the gun apologists, even here on DU

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. So you were just "poisoning the well," then?

Good to know...

Do you think that additional gun restrictions would increase the rate at which violent crime is decreasing in the US? If so, why (and by what mechanism)?

[flamingdem]

22. We know you by your manner

and don't waste keyboard strokes on the like

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. Ah, so you don't actually have a clue how it would work.

Never actually thought any of that through, did you?

[Mimosa]

29. Who's 'we' ?

I think Lizzie is quite sensible.

I've lived for more years than I care to admit. Explosive crimes such as this are distressing.

Taking away people's Constitutional right to defend themselves with a weapon will not stop these occasional maniacal outbursts.

[flamingdem]

31. Oh a buddy

fabulous

[flamingdem]

14. Turns out you are wrong. It's been about 10,000 no decrease

just reported on MSNBC

[NickB79]

16. U.S. death rate from homicide drops to a near 50-year low-WaPo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-death-rate-from-homicide-drops-to-a-near-50-year-low/2012/01/11/gIQAo5tDrP_story.html

See also: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95379&page=1#.UAr006NNjk8

Your problem is that you aren't looking at per capita murder rates, just absolute numbers, which don't take into account the fact that the US population grows by 2 million or so every year.

[flamingdem]

17. ABC article not dated but mentions President Clinton

Why are you trying so hard? The point is gun deaths and you are going to old data to make a point. It's been steady for a decade at 10,000 approx.

[hack89]

24. 10,700 firearm muders in 2006. 8775 in 2010. 19% drop.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

Here is the big picture. Steady decline since 1192.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

[NickB79]

35. The WaPo article is dated Jan. 2012

The ABC article was something I threw in to show the steady decline over the years.

And again, the absolute numbers have remained around 10,000 for years, but like I said, the US population grows by millions every year. That's why the per capita numbers are so important to understand. I'm trying to point out that, as a society, we have been making significant improvements to public safety over the past 20 years.

[RegieRocker]

4. Hogwash

http://angloaustria.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-switzerland-has-lowest-gun-crime.html

There are countries with a lower gun crime rate than Britain and they allow guns.

[flamingdem]

5. They don't have a $ driven NRA controlled tolerant of violence culture

It's our culture causing this problem

[RegieRocker]

6. Agreed

100%

It's not the guns it's the people. Us.

[flamingdem]

7. It's gun policy driven by the NRA and gun lobbies not the regular Jane and Joe though nt

[ananda]

8. Wrong.

It's a society that promotes a gun and violence culture.

[NickB79]

10. Then lets go after the Hollywood movies that glorify it

Seriously, I can't think of anything that promotes violence in our society more than what passes for entertainment nowadays.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

23. Yeah, let's go after the 1st Amendment, rather than the one causing our problems.

[NickB79]

36. If the problem is glorifying violence, then the 1st Amendment is our core problem

What else glorifies violence more than what we see every day on TV and in the movies?

[flamingdem]

15. You said it more clearly than I did

This is what is difficult to see and accept for some people, including progressives apparently.

Yes, we can learn to tone it down and set a more humane direction. If there is a will..

[Mimosa]

30. What about the violence in 'entertainment'?

Kids watch more TV than ever and much of the content is more violent than ever. Video games are violent too.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Not true, actually

Switzerland has about one-eighth the population of the UK; in 2006 there were 34 murders using firearms in Switzerland, and 54 in the UK. That translates to a rate of 0.48 per 100K population for Switzerland and 0.09 per 100K for the UK. Which is more than six times higher. And additionally, Switzerland has a suicide rate of 18 per 100K, vs 6.9 per 100K for the UK.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Thank you; but it was a libertarian blog that was quoted

Are we surprised that it just lied about the gun crime rate? Of course not.

For those interested, here's a site with lots of figures:

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/england-and-wales#rate_of_gun_homicide
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/switzerland#rate_of_gun_homicide
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states#rate_of_gun_homicide

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. True. But, the poor Brits are under the iron boot of tyranny and trying to flee.

Oppressed by the lack of guns they hide from the jackbooted thugs marching daily through the streets of once-free Britain and await the golden day when they too can own various guns and kill each other in the same numbers as the Americans.

[Mojorabbit]

26. Their gun crime went up after they passed draconian gun control laws

so I am not sure that is the answer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. And after that, it has fallen back to pre-1999 levels

Provisional figures for 2011/12 show that 5,911 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, a 16 per cent decrease from 2010/11 (7,023)

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/stb-crime-stats-end-march-2012.html#tab-Offences-involving-firearms

Historic figures in Table 2, p.12, of http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01940.pdf

[Mojorabbit]

38. According to the pdf

excluding air weapons
in 98 4903
11 7024

I am assuming air weapons are air guns?

[flamingdem]

28. I think they are stupified by the arms anarchy permitted in the USA

I am sure no European envies our violence riddled gun loving culture.

[Odin2005]

21. Most of that is probably related to gangs and drug trafficking.

[NickB79]

37. I'd predict murder rates to plummet even more if weed were legalized

The best thing this country could do from a public safety standpoint would be to legalize marijuana and regulate it like we do alcohol or cigarettes.

It would also bring in massive amounts of tax revenue, and probably give US farmers a new, lucrative crop to plant.

[obamanut2012]

33. What is a "gun apologist"?