Granted there are degrees of abhorrent behavior - but amazing to me how DU

[Laura PourMeADrink]

is rationalizing and forgiving one of our own. Doing the same thing they are doing -- trashing the victim.

Granted, his sin can not compare with a slimeball forcing himself on children. But, to jam your tongue in someone's mouth. To trash her for calling you out. These behaviors are not normal. They are not the behavior of a normal, well adjusted and respectful man.

He may have a million times worth of redeeming value - but to blow off what he did and act like it's ok, just plain hypocritical ..

First trashing reference..here on DU
Second trashing reference that she said he acted in a passive aggressiveness manner once she pushed away and called him out

[NanceGreggs]

1. Where is there any evidence whatsoever ...

... that anyone "jammed their tongue" in someone's mouth?

Where did Franken "trash her for calling him out"?

[cwydro]

16. I know.

Somehow I’ve missed that too.

[BannonsLiver]

2. I forgive Al Franken. I dont want him to resign.

Its been a long day but if people have a problem with that they can kiss my liberal ass.

Btw, your point, which I’m sure you think is original and profound, is very 10 a.m. it’s been done to death.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. Btw. Some if us work at your "very 10 am" reference

[BannonsLiver]

36. Pfft! Like youre the only one who works.

By the way re-reading the OP I noticed you acccused Franken of trashing Tweeden. Where has he done that? Link please and thank you.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. You r not even worth a response

[Atticus]

3. Who here has said it is "OK"? nt

[PdxSean]

14. If the staged photo and the sloppy kiss were consensual at the time, . . .

. . . I'll be the first to say it was OK. I am of the (apparently rare) opinion that an adult woman can consent to actively participating in crude, sexualized behavior. I should add that she should be judged no more or less harshly than a guy participating in the same behavior.

[applegrove]

5. When did he trash her?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. She said once she admonished him for the

tongue..he behaved in a passive aggressive manner ..drawing horns on her pics....shit who knows what really happened.,just can't believe everyone seems to be on his side automatically
..just know good men and know they wouldn't act like he acted..

[ecstatic]

37. I thought she said that it was because more people wanted an autograph

from her than him?
She prefaced that "horns" comment by saying that nobody wanted his autograph and implied that he felt bad about it. The more that comes out, the more I think he was just very awkward. He made jokes that she did not find funny at all.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Please provide a quote from Franken trashing the woman.

Thank you.

[cwydro]

17. Ive missed that too.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

[Phoenix61]

7. I'm not sure where you get "act like it's ok"

or "trash her for calling him out." He acknowledged it was inappropriate. He apologized for what he did. She accepted his apology. What exactly do you want?

[onecaliberal]

8. I didnt trash her, she does have ulterior motives, unlike the women who were sexually assaulted

When they were teens. He sought them out and hurt them.

[standingtall]

9. I dispute that she is the victim

Franken has never admitted to forcing his tongue down her throat. Just why shouldn't her political affiliation matter considering the President she supports has had over a dozen women accuse him of sexual assault. She obviously did not believe or care about the accusations of those women sense she assisted in putting the accused in the position to make lifetime appointments for judges who job it is to apply the law properly for the sake of justice in such allegations.

[onecaliberal]

10. That right the hell there!

[flotsam]

11. If you think...

that Hannity sat for a decade on convincing evidence that Senator Franken groped a sleeping woman, you are a special kind of naive.

[MFM008]

12. It's simple

I don't believe her.....I think shes blowing it into more than it was for political gain. Jake Tapper even asked her that on CNN.
It smells like a set up.
A stinky fat smelly pervert Roger stone operation.
I wouldn't believe it of a Republican without a history either.. I saw her original presser this morning. She seemed alarmed when told he called for an investigation of himself. Why? It will uncover a motive?

[peggysue2]

13. Nonsense!

Franken took ownership of what he did, apologized and invited an ethics inquiry. He has not trashed anyone including the woman. No one is making excuses for what he did or acting like it's okay. But to pretend that this wasn't politically orchestrated is playing right into the Republican game plan--let's divert attention from Roy Moore who denies everything, including molesting a 14-year old child. Sorry, there's no comparison between a raunchy USO skit and pedophilia. There's just not.

It's not hypocritical to recognize false equivalency/whataboutism game playing because that's what's going on. Al Franken may need a slap upside the head. Roy Moore needs leg irons.

[smirkymonkey]

15. +1000

[PeaceNikki]

18. Franken never trashed her.

Your implication that he did is wrong.

[pnwmom]

19. We don't know he jammed his tongue in her mouth. We do know he hasn't trashed her.

Why not wait and see if there are other accusers, as there have been in the case of so many other men?

But the other woman, who accused him of arguing with her about work-related matters, and getting her phone number so he could argue some more, doesn't count. That wasn't sexual harassment, no matter how the Rethugs want to frame it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. Thanks.thats true... don't know if what she said

Is true

[GaYellowDawg]

20. Wow. Just wow.

The fact that there are degrees to behavior is exactly why we can live with what Al Franken did and not live with what Roy Moore did.

Your assertion about Franken not being a "normal, well-adjusted, and respectful man" is just flat out stupid. You obviously don't know the difference between a bad person and a good person who made a mistake. Absolutism is the hallmark of small minds. And one last thing: you don't get to be the ultimate arbiter of what constitutes a good man simply because of your gender.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. Wow just reading this...I can't imagine a more

Shitty and disrespectful response to another DUer. Bravo

[GaYellowDawg]

40. Really?

Then you don't have much of an imagination.

[Kaleva]

21. Franken never trashed her. Maybe you are talking about Moore?

[Demsrule86]

22. It is not rationalizing. It is not the same thing...it was a joke and this is Hannity's doing

You want to help the Gop get rid of Democrats for nothing ...go ahead if you must. I won't. Trying to rape a teen is a completely different situation.

[oberliner]

30. Forcibly kissing someone against their objections is not a joke

I can't believe that even needs to be said.

[maxsolomon]

41. she agreed to the kiss for a "rehearsal", though she thought it was odd

she didn't agree to tongue. so it wasn't "forcibly" or "jamming". it was a boundary violation.

which is unacceptable, but again, not in the same league as trolling courts for vulnerable teens.

[LisaL]

23. Yes, we should just throw everyone under the bus who is ever accused of anything.

So much better to believe every accusation without question.

[Glorfindel]

27. No, not everyone. Only Democrats. Repukes must always get the benefit of the doubt.

Senator Franken never "trashed" the "victim."

[Vinca]

24. I'm not judging the victim or Franken, but I found it curious the first thing out of Al was that he

didn't remember it quite that way. The reason he's asking for an ethics investigation might be to bring in witnesses to the event. It occurred to me this morning that if Al Franken, nicest guy in the world, is the first one on the chopping block, we're in for a heck of a ride.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

31. Thanks for your kind and reasoned response V !! nt

[oberliner]

29. Thank you for this post

Very well said.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. Hello minority

[Gravitycollapse]

34. The blatant sexism on DU lately is horrifying.

[milestogo]

35. That's her take on what happened.

It wasn't the same as his take on what happened.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. I'm disappointed in Franken but I don't want him to resign.

He's my Senator and he's been great. Removing him or forcing him to resign won't hurt him, except, of course, for the embarrassment - but he doesn't need the job. But losing him will hurt ME and the other citizens of Minnesota. He's acknowledged that what he did was wrong and he's apologized for it. There's no evidence of any pattern of such incidents, and the fact that he's called for an ethics investigation of himself strongly suggests that he knows that there aren't any. Franken's 2008 Senate opponent was Norm Coleman, whose campaign was funded by tons of money from the RNC and right-wing PACs and advised by Karl Rove - and because the election was so close they turned over every single rock to find dirt on him. The attack ads were disgusting, mostly based on Franken's career as a comedian and some of the raunchy jokes he wrote. But despite all that dirt-digging they didn't find the Tweeden incident or ANY incidents involving similar misconduct. If they had you can bet they've used them.

I don't excuse his actions but I don't equate them in the slightest with what Moore or Trump have done. We don't want the death penalty for every crime, do we? Those who think he should resign from the Senate don't understand how that hurts us in his state. Yes, we have other good progressives who could take the seat (Dayton would probably appoint Keith Ellison), but why toss out a great Senator for a single bad act?

[alarimer]

42. Statistically speaking, some "victims" are liars.

We've seen some very public cases where that was true. It isn't common, but it also seems like these particular "victims" have an agenda, aided and abetted by right wing media.

It pays to be skeptical of all claims, at least initially.

Franken's behavior was not okay, but some offenses are not as serious as others. Why should we throw him out for this? We have a sitting president who has admitted to worse. We have a former president who did worse and did not resign. Where would it stop? It's fine if Franken resigns because Minnesota has a Dem governor. But what happens when some Democrat in a state with a Republican governor is forced out for bullshit reasons? Then we (potentially, depending on the state) are stuck with yet another Repug, which I think is the true reason behind this smear. Get the ball rolling for the Dems to start the circular firing squad yet again and derail the conversation from TRUE predators like Moore (or Trump).

No amount of apology is enough for some people. He must wear the sack-cloth and ashes forever, I guess.

[treestar]

43. there's a difference between not thinking there is evidence he

really did that and condoning it if it happened.